I find it strange that a gay person would have such issue with gender choices. Just because a person plays a character of an opposite gender doesnt mean they represent themselves to others in that game as that gender in anyway but pixel form. Most of the players I know I know what gender the person behind the pixels is because they havent tried to lie about it. Thats not to say that there arent some people out there who have gender identity issues and do indeed mask their IRL gender behind a Pixelated Internal gender surrogate. Thats ok too. never forget their is a real life person behind those pixels, no matter what shape/form those pixels take.
In my opinion character gender shouldnt matter it shouldnt effect our online interactions. you either like a person for what they do or what they say. if what bits and pieces they have under their clothes determines your disposition towards them then the problem lies with you and not them.
(if your not the person i recall as identifying himself as being gay here in a few posts , then i apologize.)
Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny. Lao-Tze
I guess most of us dont make a character so we can fantasize about boning them. Maybe we just want a good looking character. For alot of straight guys, a good looking character is a woman.
What's wrong with fantasizing about an attractive female character? I can't speak for everyone but I would call that natural.
And that screenshot of the female in that Domme/Thong outfit is embarassing.
I wouldn't play that.
My 10 y/o daugheter loves to come and sit next to me and watch as I play sometimes.
The real thing that I wonder though is why do people find this so appauling? Honestly, I used to but I came to a simple realization recently.
I see both children and adults in bikinis(basically thong and a bra) at the beach or in any swimming place in general regularly. Nobody looks down on this, not even myself. Another example would be what every kid is watching on television these days, superstars parading in music videos basically naked(Lady Gaga comes to mind) singing about ...well you know what.
Practicality aside, I don't see why it is any different when displayed in a game. That being said I don't play that race due to it's armor being impractical and unnapealing to me, but I don't find it innapropriate anymore.
Unless you disprove of it in all circumstances then that's fine, but I find it weird that people like one but not the other.
It's the same as that Miley Cyrrus controversy a few years back. An underaged girl under sheets in a provocative pose.
The technical components were a girl lying in bed under the sheets.
If you break the photo down to the fact that nothing was exposed, the percentage of skin that was showing wasn't inappropriate.
But the context of those photos was an underaged girl who's body language said "Come F@$K Me!"
With regard to beach wear, there is a scale. Functional------>Sexy------->Softcore.
There is a line....it's a grey scale, but you can still go to far.
I once asked my buddy why he plays female toons in mmos... His answer was rather simple, he said "I don't wanna stare at digitized man ass all day while I play my games" Lol for some odd reason it made total sense.
Now let me say ahead, I always respect everyone's decision what to play in a MMO. It is just a feeling. Let me explain. Now sure, as gay guy, I do not have the appeal to "see a girl's bum" while I play. But here is the thing.
And that is why I shudder at the thought, no matter if you play same gender or opposite gender: this idea to create a character as "your ideal looking girl/guy" is what just feels so spooking me off.
For me, a character I play must represent something of *me*, some part of myself externalized. (Is that a word?)
And that is what I don't get, how can you play a char months or even years which is your "love interest"? That sounds just so... bizarre.
Well being a gay guy with a deep spiritual inner space, i have to say that i realized years ago that i was more then the sum of my body parts. I'm in between worlds so to speak in society I can be having drinks with the guys changing the oil in my car or going shopping for home decoration items with my girlfriends. Part of my coming out process was the realization that almost everything i was taught by society was wrong on how people should be based solely on their gender.
This translates also into my gameplay. I'm perfectly fine playing a girl as i am a guy doesn't matter to me the character comes to life when created and has the right name for him/her. I've never created a toon just to have eyecandy while running around killing stuff in a game. The characters i create do have something of "me" in them but I accepted my feminine side years ago but again my view of that is more akin to the Native American Indian of the "twospirit" people where in side we have both genders in our soul and can draw strength, talents and skills from both, and often personality traits.
So when i play a female toon it is still some part of me and never some piece of sexual imagery.
Then again, i've met gays that do the opposite and I don't understand that myself, why would anyone sexualize this, however i'm not going to hate on those people because in my research into sexuality, the entire sexual mind is about as mercurial as that of the dreaming mind and is as infinitely diverse as the dreaming mind. Sexual tastes are like grains of sand on a beach and that's part of what makes humanity unique so i try not to judge.
My best friend is 100% straight, but often plays female characters. And he doesn't pretend he's a girl either.
It's a game and you don't have to have weird issues to choose female in the character creator.
I agree. Gender choice in game shouldn't be taken personally by another who's not playing that character. Unless of course you're looking to cyber.. well then, that's another ball of wax
My best friend is 100% straight, but often plays female characters. And he doesn't pretend he's a girl either.
It's a game and you don't have to have weird issues to choose female in the character creator.
I agree. Gender choice in game shouldn't be taken personally by another who's not playing that character. Unless of course you're looking to cyber.. well then, that's another ball of wax
Just thought I'd let you know I love your signature, The Goonies is my all time favorite movie.
I once asked my buddy why he plays female toons in mmos... His answer was rather simple, he said "I don't wanna stare at digitized man ass all day while I play my games" Lol for some odd reason it made total sense.
The truth is. (To the question Why males play females)
Now let me say ahead, I always respect everyone's decision what to play in a MMO. It is just a feeling. Let me explain. Now sure, as gay guy, I do not have the appeal to "see a girl's bum" while I play. But here is the thing. When I create MMO characters, I NEVER make "my idea man". And boy, I tried. Several times in MMOs I create a male character that looked as my "ideal looking man", and it SPOOKED THE HELL OUTTA ME. I can't even say why. But the idea to play a char that looks like my ideal man, was... wrong. It was something so outside anything I could identify or accpet. I always felt it was just wrong and spooky, to have some "cute puppet", some "love doll" or whatever. It felt just freaky. And that is why I shudder at the thought, no matter if you play same gender or opposite gender: this idea to create a character as "your ideal looking girl/guy" is what just feels so spooking me off.
For me, a character I play must represent something of *me*, some part of myself externalized. (Is that a word?) For instance, I loved my EQ2 Sarnath and my Fae Ranger. Both represented character traits of me. Both where a part of me, in a way I could not describe. Or my dark skinned characters I make in most MMOs as main. He is me, for reasons I can not explain. But he is FAR from the type of guy I want. I mean, I know some people would even play any random char because they don't care at all. But when you play a char so many hours as you do in a MMO, does it not evoke *some* feeling within you?
And that is what I don't get, how can you play a char months or even years which is your "love interest"? That sounds just so... bizarre. So it gives me more than a little doubt in players who do this. I know from experience with female gamers who talked to me, that female chars are usually treated better. If they enter older MMOs, they are WAY more likely to get help, money and other stuff. And that, shall we say, ulterior motive is what I also kind of suspect. Like they know, ok with a girl char people will be more helpful and nice. Which is the case. Female chars DO get more help.
So what do you think about it? And to you guys who play girls, how do you feel doing that? I wonder.
I've always used the excuse that "I'd rather look at a female characters butt all the time." Which is not a lie, but i don't lust after my characters. My characters are an extension of me, or at least a part of me.
I don't tell a lot of people, but I would rather be a girl than a guy. *guess i am telling a lot of people now, good thing the internet anonymity of the internet* I am a Male Lesbian, I love women, and probably still would if i were a woman. I look at fashion, hairstyles, and behavior for men and women, and would rather be female than male. I hate the tough guy persona that we are forced into, because it's not me. I play the tough guy rather well, I have a reputation in my social group for being rather intimidating. Inside, and known to those who are very close to me, I am a very sweet person. I'd rather be a cute and sweet woman, than a tough bastard who scares people.
I have an entire online persona that is female, from facebook to myspace to Livejournal. I play female characters because it's nice even for a brief period of time to roleplay it, I also play female characters often when i play D&D, which also makes people uncomfortable.
Think you're looking into it too much honestly, I mean should you not the be poster child of "Do what makes you feel good, happy, complete?" I find it weird a gay guy has issue with something so minor.
I can't play a Male Cleric or Mage... Can't play a female Tank or Warrior... Just how I function. Others regardless to even if their purpose for the selection is the darkest and most evilily concievable notion... it's their preference and not anyones place to tell other wise.
Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.
Now sure, as gay guy, I do not have the appeal to "see a girl's bum" while I play.
I don't understand this logic. If a gay guy wouldn't want to look at a girl's butt, why would a straight man want to look at a guy's butt?
I play whatever sex looks the best. In Age of Conan, the female animations were very clunky and looked goofy; thus, I played a male character. In Aion, the male characters looked too sassy; thus, I played a female character.
My best friend is 100% straight, but often plays female characters. And he doesn't pretend he's a girl either.
It's a game and you don't have to have weird issues to choose female in the character creator.
I agree. Gender choice in game shouldn't be taken personally by another who's not playing that character. Unless of course you're looking to cyber.. well then, that's another ball of wax
Just thought I'd let you know I love your signature, The Goonies is my all time favorite movie.
Hm, ok that certainly is an enlightning explanation. But it also seems to imply that most MMO developers fail to make convincing male character models for a number of gamers.
No. Actually its not true. Many MMOs do have better male models (and quite failed female ones)
AOC has vastly superior male models , LOTRO is bad on both sides but females are just attrocious ( i mean you can really not watch the character from how bad it is )
I have also a wierd bug in my head - dont know if anyone else here does the same.
You know what is "vanity camera" ?
I spend considerable time admiring my character trough vanity camera
I even buy gear for its looks not for stats - damn in LOTRO i spend weeks doing a quest to get a cloak (that nobody else has on whole server ) ( jeez GW2 are gonna make bundles on my obsession)
Moment i dont like how my character looks , i leave the game :S
Hm, ok that certainly is an enlightning explanation. But it also seems to imply that most MMO developers fail to make convincing male character models for a number of gamers.
No. Actually its not true. Many MMOs do have better male models (and quite failed female ones)
AOC has vastly superior male models , LOTRO is bad on both sides but females are just attrocious ( i mean you can really not watch the character from how bad it is )
I have also a wierd bug in my head - dont know if anyone else here does the same.
You know what is "vanity camera" ?
I spend considerable time admiring my character trough vanity camera
I even buy gear for its looks not for stats - damn in LOTRO i spend weeks doing a quest to get a cloak (that nobody else has on whole server ) ( jeez GW2 are gonna make bundles on my obsession)
Moment i dont like how my character looks , i leave the game :S
You and me both.
I'm right there with the both of you.
This is why I cannot stand the "aesthetics only is okay for micro-transactions" statement. "Looking cool" is a big part of the reason why I play MMOs. As an aesthetic fan, why should I have to pay more money that a stat fan?
To stay on topic, I play whatever sex looks the best.
Am I the only one who just wants to play the game and couldn't care less what my character looks like?
You are certainly not alone. In most games, on the character creation screen, I hit randomize then continue.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Now let me say ahead, I always respect everyone's decision what to play in a MMO. It is just a feeling. Let me explain. Now sure, as gay guy, I do not have the appeal to "see a girl's bum" while I play. But here is the thing. When I create MMO characters, I NEVER make "my idea man". And boy, I tried. Several times in MMOs I create a male character that looked as my "ideal looking man", and it SPOOKED THE HELL OUTTA ME. I can't even say why. But the idea to play a char that looks like my ideal man, was... wrong. It was something so outside anything I could identify or accpet. I always felt it was just wrong and spooky, to have some "cute puppet", some "love doll" or whatever. It felt just freaky. And that is why I shudder at the thought, no matter if you play same gender or opposite gender: this idea to create a character as "your ideal looking girl/guy" is what just feels so spooking me off.
For me, a character I play must represent something of *me*, some part of myself externalized. (Is that a word?) For instance, I loved my EQ2 Sarnath and my Fae Ranger. Both represented character traits of me. Both where a part of me, in a way I could not describe. Or my dark skinned characters I make in most MMOs as main. He is me, for reasons I can not explain. But he is FAR from the type of guy I want. I mean, I know some people would even play any random char because they don't care at all. But when you play a char so many hours as you do in a MMO, does it not evoke *some* feeling within you?
And that is what I don't get, how can you play a char months or even years which is your "love interest"? That sounds just so... bizarre. So it gives me more than a little doubt in players who do this. I know from experience with female gamers who talked to me, that female chars are usually treated better. If they enter older MMOs, they are WAY more likely to get help, money and other stuff. And that, shall we say, ulterior motive is what I also kind of suspect. Like they know, ok with a girl char people will be more helpful and nice. Which is the case. Female chars DO get more help.
So what do you think about it? And to you guys who play girls, how do you feel doing that? I wonder.
Let put it this way: I dont understand your sexual preference(you say that you are a gay) but this does not spook me off. On the other hand there are a lot of people that are afraid of gay people. We just have diferent tastes and make different choices. I respect your preferences and I expect you to repspect mine - even in games.
LOL, in the Tera beta this past weekend I created 3 new characters, and yes, they were all female. (cmon, have you seen the artwork in that game, you just had to look, especially since they were toss-aways)
See the thing is, long ago MMORPG's became more games than worlds to me, therefore I don't identify with my avatars like I used to back in the early days. (where I would only play males).
Now they are just figurines that I manipulate on the playing field, not personifications of me in any way. In fact, I interact so seldom with players in MMO's anymore no one even knows what my avatar is or whether I'm actually a female or not.
Take SWTOR for example, if they didn't hear me on vent they'd never know what my gender was. And on vent I go by a more standard male name whereas I can have 3 alts, some male, some female. In game, except for random drive by's only a handful of people have actually seen my avatar in game. (Remember the old days when guilds would actually all gather in the same place in the game world for a guild meeting?, Now it's all just vent chats and the like)
Also, while the female avatars I create will of course have femine features which I find pleasing, again, I'm not looking to try these fashions out on myself or replace my wife with one of them. (no, she didn't make me say that)
So I'll continue to play both male and female avatars (generally speaking in any new MMO I make a male character first, as I did in SWTOR) as the mood and artwork suit me.
One note, I find the "female child like" avatars in games like Tera creepy, and no, I won't be rolling an avatar of that race any time soon.
Read up to this point, just wanted to pop in and say I hated doing those lol.
But for the main topic, it spooks me when people play girl characters for sexual reasons. It's on the same level aas hentai for me, but thatas because I had a traumatising experience envolving hentai and a friends hotel room. -.-
I usually just assume people play female avatars because they like the animation better, or enjoy the female style of armor better than the male style. Only when they come out and say "Herp I like ass on my char!!11! is when I label the player as a creeper. (I never ask, but when the qeustion pops up in general chat you can't really avoid it)
I understad some people may not care but it's not for me, so I say you do your thing over there and I'll do my thing over here and we can all get along.
I once asked my buddy why he plays female toons in mmos... His answer was rather simple, he said "I don't wanna stare at digitized man ass all day while I play my games" Lol for some odd reason it made total sense.
The truth is. (To the question Why males play females)
Because we want to.
Can't be more succinct than that.
Interest thing I've noticed though is that even though this topic has been popping constantly over the years, I've started to noticed that there isn't the same level of vitriole in the reactions as I remember, even a few years ago. It's almost as if it's becoming less of an issue. There are also a lot more people admitting that they play female characters, at least that's my perception of it. Perhaps it's just the time of day, the phase of the moon or the consistency of these particular forums, but is it possible we gamers are growing up?
Comments
I find it strange that a gay person would have such issue with gender choices. Just because a person plays a character of an opposite gender doesnt mean they represent themselves to others in that game as that gender in anyway but pixel form. Most of the players I know I know what gender the person behind the pixels is because they havent tried to lie about it. Thats not to say that there arent some people out there who have gender identity issues and do indeed mask their IRL gender behind a Pixelated Internal gender surrogate. Thats ok too. never forget their is a real life person behind those pixels, no matter what shape/form those pixels take.
In my opinion character gender shouldnt matter it shouldnt effect our online interactions. you either like a person for what they do or what they say. if what bits and pieces they have under their clothes determines your disposition towards them then the problem lies with you and not them.
(if your not the person i recall as identifying himself as being gay here in a few posts , then i apologize.)
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
It really depends on how you play.
Guys who play girls and who like to cybersex with other guys are indeed creepy (I never really got the cybersex thing at all, particularly in MMOs).
People who play a MMO without roleplaying on the other hand is not really anything. People aren't orcs or undead IRL either but still play them.
No sex = fine. I will not complain on whatever avatars anyone else play. I never got why people play gnomes but that doesn't mean they creep me out.
It's the same as that Miley Cyrrus controversy a few years back. An underaged girl under sheets in a provocative pose.
The technical components were a girl lying in bed under the sheets.
If you break the photo down to the fact that nothing was exposed, the percentage of skin that was showing wasn't inappropriate.
But the context of those photos was an underaged girl who's body language said "Come F@$K Me!"
With regard to beach wear, there is a scale. Functional------>Sexy------->Softcore.
There is a line....it's a grey scale, but you can still go to far.
I once asked my buddy why he plays female toons in mmos... His answer was rather simple, he said "I don't wanna stare at digitized man ass all day while I play my games" Lol for some odd reason it made total sense.
Well being a gay guy with a deep spiritual inner space, i have to say that i realized years ago that i was more then the sum of my body parts. I'm in between worlds so to speak in society I can be having drinks with the guys changing the oil in my car or going shopping for home decoration items with my girlfriends. Part of my coming out process was the realization that almost everything i was taught by society was wrong on how people should be based solely on their gender.
This translates also into my gameplay. I'm perfectly fine playing a girl as i am a guy doesn't matter to me the character comes to life when created and has the right name for him/her. I've never created a toon just to have eyecandy while running around killing stuff in a game. The characters i create do have something of "me" in them but I accepted my feminine side years ago but again my view of that is more akin to the Native American Indian of the "twospirit" people where in side we have both genders in our soul and can draw strength, talents and skills from both, and often personality traits.
So when i play a female toon it is still some part of me and never some piece of sexual imagery.
Then again, i've met gays that do the opposite and I don't understand that myself, why would anyone sexualize this, however i'm not going to hate on those people because in my research into sexuality, the entire sexual mind is about as mercurial as that of the dreaming mind and is as infinitely diverse as the dreaming mind. Sexual tastes are like grains of sand on a beach and that's part of what makes humanity unique so i try not to judge.
Am I the only one who just wants to play the game and couldn't care less what my character looks like?
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
My best friend is 100% straight, but often plays female characters. And he doesn't pretend he's a girl either.
It's a game and you don't have to have weird issues to choose female in the character creator.
I agree. Gender choice in game shouldn't be taken personally by another who's not playing that character. Unless of course you're looking to cyber.. well then, that's another ball of wax
The same guys seems to have an issue with guy playing female toons eem to have no problem with female protagonists in single player games.
How many guys played Laura Croft?
Ridiculous thing for some to get 'spooked' over tbh.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Just thought I'd let you know I love your signature, The Goonies is my all time favorite movie.
Well, i'd like to play with laura croft, the "Angelina" version
/joke
The truth is. (To the question Why males play females)
Because we want to.
I've always used the excuse that "I'd rather look at a female characters butt all the time." Which is not a lie, but i don't lust after my characters. My characters are an extension of me, or at least a part of me.
I don't tell a lot of people, but I would rather be a girl than a guy. *guess i am telling a lot of people now, good thing the internet anonymity of the internet* I am a Male Lesbian, I love women, and probably still would if i were a woman. I look at fashion, hairstyles, and behavior for men and women, and would rather be female than male. I hate the tough guy persona that we are forced into, because it's not me. I play the tough guy rather well, I have a reputation in my social group for being rather intimidating. Inside, and known to those who are very close to me, I am a very sweet person. I'd rather be a cute and sweet woman, than a tough bastard who scares people.
I have an entire online persona that is female, from facebook to myspace to Livejournal. I play female characters because it's nice even for a brief period of time to roleplay it, I also play female characters often when i play D&D, which also makes people uncomfortable.
Think you're looking into it too much honestly, I mean should you not the be poster child of "Do what makes you feel good, happy, complete?" I find it weird a gay guy has issue with something so minor.
I can't play a Male Cleric or Mage... Can't play a female Tank or Warrior... Just how I function. Others regardless to even if their purpose for the selection is the darkest and most evilily concievable notion... it's their preference and not anyones place to tell other wise.
Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.
I don't understand this logic. If a gay guy wouldn't want to look at a girl's butt, why would a straight man want to look at a guy's butt?
I play whatever sex looks the best. In Age of Conan, the female animations were very clunky and looked goofy; thus, I played a male character. In Aion, the male characters looked too sassy; thus, I played a female character.
Epic comment.
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
Thank you
I'm glad you enjoy it.
You and me both.
I'm right there with the both of you.
This is why I cannot stand the "aesthetics only is okay for micro-transactions" statement. "Looking cool" is a big part of the reason why I play MMOs. As an aesthetic fan, why should I have to pay more money that a stat fan?
To stay on topic, I play whatever sex looks the best.
You are certainly not alone. In most games, on the character creation screen, I hit randomize then continue.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Let put it this way: I dont understand your sexual preference(you say that you are a gay) but this does not spook me off. On the other hand there are a lot of people that are afraid of gay people. We just have diferent tastes and make different choices. I respect your preferences and I expect you to repspect mine - even in games.
Read up to this point, just wanted to pop in and say I hated doing those lol.
But for the main topic, it spooks me when people play girl characters for sexual reasons. It's on the same level aas hentai for me, but thatas because I had a traumatising experience envolving hentai and a friends hotel room. -.-
I usually just assume people play female avatars because they like the animation better, or enjoy the female style of armor better than the male style. Only when they come out and say "Herp I like ass on my char!!11! is when I label the player as a creeper. (I never ask, but when the qeustion pops up in general chat you can't really avoid it)
I understad some people may not care but it's not for me, so I say you do your thing over there and I'll do my thing over here and we can all get along.
Yes I played SWTOR.
Can't be more succinct than that.
Interest thing I've noticed though is that even though this topic has been popping constantly over the years, I've started to noticed that there isn't the same level of vitriole in the reactions as I remember, even a few years ago. It's almost as if it's becoming less of an issue. There are also a lot more people admitting that they play female characters, at least that's my perception of it. Perhaps it's just the time of day, the phase of the moon or the consistency of these particular forums, but is it possible we gamers are growing up?