Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Why have quest text if people can't read?
LeegOfChldrn
Member Posts: 364
I'd imagine that creating all these quests with books worth of quest text (paragraph after paragraph of quest text eventually turns into an enormous amount of written work) would be very expensive, very time consuming, and to be honest: very very niche.
The amount of people who actually read the quest text are niche, almost as much so IMO as those who roleplay walk, desire FFA PvP, or seek a permadeath solution. Yet these writers take time, money, and most of all a significant portion of patching, updates, and expansion content.
If you do not know what I am talking about or who, you may be unaware of how many people play games like Mass Effect and literally skip through the entire storyline and dialogue just to beat the game...(if you don't know, Mass Effect is a heavily dialogue, story-driven game). Yet this game has voice acting and action in the scenes, making it far easier for the ADHD generation to handle. Now imagine those who actually read quest text...wow.
Even I, a lover of storylines and roleplaying, do not read the majority of quest text (or simply browse through it, often as a requirement to make the quest easier). Simply sad, very very sad.
Try going to any sort of article, such as one I recently read on AOL NEWS which stated "Catholic Priests help to prevent sexual abuse of minors." and there are, no kidding, scores of comments saying something similar to "Wow yet another Article of Catholic Priests molesting innocent kids. This needs to stop!" with comprehension failure with the TITLE itself, let alone the lengthy article painting the priests as GOOD people, not bad. ANother article the same week with two neighbors and the neighbor shot the other man when the man confronted him over the shooter's dog pooping on his lawn. Comments galore failing to comprehend that the dog owner WAS the shooter, and that the man pictured in the article was the murder victim NOT the criminal. Simply amazing, but obviously reading is niche in our society.
Want to mass market to as many people as possible? Get rid of all reading, and the money should flow in much faster.
Furthermore, forums across the internet-- plenty of evidence in this forum and the next, clearly shows that a large amount of people simply cannot read. Whether they fail to read or comprehend simple concepts because of laziness, trolling, or outright stupidity: they simply cannot read. Just now there are several threads with people who comment showing clear signs that didn't even read or comprehend past the very first line. A thread about a gay man roleplaying his avatar, in the second sentence of the thread, and someone even responded assuming he was straight and the thread were about a straight man embarassed by a female avatar turning out to be male.
Any argument on the internet seems to have a large majority of people (typically lurkers commenting and then vanishing, not the actual debaters) who seem to be unable to read. I am not even talking about the people who argue back and forth failing to empathize with one another. No, I am talking of the numerous lurkers who post a single short paragraph revealing a complete failure to understand the simple concepts the topic provides to discuss.
It is actually the NORM in MMORPG's for people to skip all quest text, no matter how lengthy or in depth the text gets. In fact, they tend to skip it ESPECIALLY when it is too lengthy. Yet quest text is still written.
Why even have quest text if people can't read? Do they really require the illusion of roleplaying to help prevent themselves from coming to terms with the reality that their game is shallow and their progression meaningless? How many gamers would cheer to see a developer say, "We fired 5 of our story writers and hired 3 new PvP developers to give an additional Battleground every major update!" The crowds would cheer in glory.
Comments
need more voice actor!
that would be nice actually.
Even more, it is very surprising how cheap voice actors are. If a large portion of a budget is wasted on voice actors, it's typically because they hire overpriced (well known, famous, popular) voice actors instead of people of equivalent talent with normal prices.
I once asked a professional voice actor who could do scores of unique voices himself, how much it would cost to provide voice acting for over 1200 lines of dialogue, and it came down to about $1200. So for that measily amount of investment I could provide full voice acting to scores of /emotes for tons of races/classes. He also stated that the more I needed, the cheaper it would get and vice versa.
Suddenly $1 per line becomes $0.50 per line. Fun stuff really, and incredibly cheap compared to what it would cost me.
Big difference between "can't" read & "can't be bothered" to read.
I think that if people cannot read, perhaps as a sight-impaired person whereby regular visuals are okay but text causes them problems (such as some forms of vision impairment or dyslexia) then voiced quests help those to enjoy the game much better, & for those unwilling to read the text can be useful.
I think that the problem with voiced text is the "waiting for it to finish so I can carry on doing stuff" part, if only 1 quest is given then having the narrative to it read out to you while you move to the quest area, or fight your way to the destination required makes more sense than putting everything on hold while you listen, standing there doing nothing while you listen is "anti-gamer" having the narrative run on as you move & fight is a bit more movie-like.
Quest text is fairly cheap to produce though, that's why it's still relevantm the Art of it is in making it pertinent & entertaining without being overly dragged out, a summary at the top before the main body helps, those who want to immerse can choose & those who do not don't miss out on important points.
Even high-profile Voice actors are paid a 'standard' rate for the majority of their work in games.
Most VA do other things than just 'games' though like cartoons, ads or even acting which has a different pay scale.
David Haytor (Solid Snake VA) was the first visible VA to break that secret openly. I'm sure him being one of the most-sough-after screenwriter in Hollywood after writing Xmen/Xmen2 had nothing to do with this. :P
The cost of voice overs is not just the VA though. You need infrastructure like a studio and equipment.
I really can't go back to 'text' now though, SWTOR has spoiled me.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
That's a pretty good point Skuz. I for one read much faster then voice actors talk.
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
So those of us that do read the text can answer the lazy fools in general chat later on. What makes it fun though is to relay misinformation and make them waste even more time trying to complete select quests. Although that doesn't work as well anymore since there are quest helpers in most MMOs now, but in the past it was too funny when misleading others.
LOL. I think that the OP is mistaken about how few people read the text for quests. I'd guess it's around 40%, depending on the game, the quality of the writing and the amount of text.
That is a HUGE factor. If the quality is absolutely terrible or predictable I'm more likely to skim then read. If it's interesting I'll read every word
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
I always said that MMORPGs do not require Quests (at least not so many), it is a waste of development time.
They should implement more sandbox features in the games and just few MEANINGFUL main storylines, the rest of the content should be made by players.
I love RPGs and when I play the single player ones (Skyrim, Dragon Age, Mass Effect) I read all the quests.
In MMORPG I skip all of the reading, and if I can all the quests alltoghetr, as long there is enough group content.
MMORPG players who "love" quests and stories should stick with single player RPGs, maybe developers will stop creating MMOs which are played for 1 or 2 months only.
I totally forgot that voice over is largely dependant on the directors.
Think of movies where it has good actors but the movie itself is terrible.
Voice over is very similar.
Laura Bailey voices Kira (JK Companion in SWTOR) and does an awesome job. She also voices Jaina Proudmore in WoW and it is awful. All of her 'non-WoW' work tells me this VA knows her stuff, she is an awesome VA but WoW's VA director just doesn't know what to do.
I would never enforce my playstyle onto others though. If people want quests in their MMO, let them have it. I see no issue with devs that cater to what the customer wants.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I think the "Smuggler" voice in SWTOR was from the guy from,"Firefly". Very smooth and professional. The writing for the Smuggler and his companion, Corso, could be hilarious. 'Why do we always end up smelling like a sewer pipe, just once I would like to leave a world smelling like flowers"
Ballerinas are always on their toes. Why don't they just get taller ballerinas?
yes voice actors are nice in a game, but when you have to much of it it just doesnt work very well. For example SWTOR has far to much voice overs and eventually it just becomes annoying to listen to that for every single small quest you do. People end up just skipping the voices or breilfy skimming it like they would a normal text based quest. The solution does not souly reside in voice actors but perhaps in a mix of voice and text based quests, or something new and creative!
madnessman
you know, given most people don't understand the difference between your and you're, its and it's, or their and they're, i'm convinced this is why they have to have add-ons or quest markers on the map these days. because it's a bit difficult to read the instructions before accepting a quest when in countries where english was the primary language, they can't even read it.
i maintain this is probably why most quests are kill x rats. because anything else would require text to be read and followed.
*grin*
A friend of mine a few years ago, suggested I try reading the quests given by the npc in WoW. I tried it and realize how much more interesting the game became. Quests with good story is important because it should be like reading a good book or watching a really good movie. We feel like we are taking part in our favorite books or movies. I usually stop reading quests when the story becomes uninteresting. Thankfully, just like book and movies, there's the option to skip them. So, it doesn't matter whether people read quests or not. To each his own. Whatever floats YOUR boat.
No we don't. Look, at how many people complained they just spacebarred there way through SWTOR, they didn't care anymore about the storyline when voice acted than when having to read it.
Why? It's simple really, it's due to the fact there's quest helpers everywhere directing them right to their target.
Remove off them and make it so the quest text actually provides the instructions and clues they player needs to actually complete the mission and they'll have to care a lot more about what is written or said.
Otherwise you're correct, no real need to waste a lot of cash on story
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Spot on. This is a solution, not more voices.
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
Why devote resources to generic quest text (that in recent years has become more of an outlet for endless popculture references, puns and inside jokes than actual quality writing), in graphical MMOs as a content delivery system at all?
To me, quest text in the WoW-clones has always come off as an attempt to dress up tedious gameplay and justify bland mechanics, while *never* adding anything to my personal story. I enjoy opportunities to discover more about a games lore, probably more than the average player (one of my Skyrim characters for example is dedicated to obtaining at least one copy of every book in game, and I've fully read all I've come across), but using text to explain why my adventurer is being forced to click 10 flowers doesn't make it anything other than picking 10 flowers.
Relying on text to forcibly instill a sense of purpose will never compete with a players instinctual purpose. We have a graphical representation of these (mostly) 3D worlds, invest in using that world and environment to drive players and let the story unfold that way rather than investing in more cheesey low brow popculture jokes - they're nowhere near as effective. Luckily it looks like GW2 has come to the same conclusion.
I can't even count how many games, indie or triple A, that had me logging out within the first ten minutes because of introductory text that did nothing but convince me they were using quest text because that's how it's been done, rather than because it was an ideal tool to convey certain ideas that weren't easy to capture in a 3D representation, and that they were struggling to find anything worth saying, yet included it because that's how WoW did it.
You've probably seen the type, they're usually something like 'Roflmao, Johnny needs you to bring him his lucky hat. He's in the next room, newbie LOL. He'll give you a newb sword for making kills!'. Yeah, good bye. Quest text either convinces me that even the people making the game were struggling to fill in the quest text, they didn't take their game seriously (so why should I?), or they flat out had no talent (technically proficient programmers being forced to fill in the text seems pretty common despite the fact that they have little to no writing experience or ability in this field.).
Disposable quest text as motivation is something that will likely fade away as technology continues to evolve, and it can't happen soon enough. There will still be room for truly worthy texts that convey lore or history within a game for those of us that enjoy seeking those things out, but the goals that these cheesey walls of text and endless puns are trying to reach can be better delivered through other means.
Oh the bitter irony... i skipped to the end of the op's post and went outside to kill 10 bunnies!
+1 4adhd
Lol.
This is why you write quests where the quest text tells you pretty clearly how to complete the quest, but you can't figure it out on your own if you skip the quest text. Well, most games don't do that. Some quests in Uncharted Waters Online do, though. The Chronicles of Spellborn tried to do this, too.
LoL...i didnt kill any bunnies, but i did think it was ironic to write a wall of txt on this subject.
I never read quests, its usually faster to just skip them. Just like skipping walls of txts in forums and posting a comment anyways.
Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7
The argument against quest text isn't "people can't read", but that text-boxes don't fit in a visual, interactive medium.
The more the text can seep into the game world, the better, and the more the text becomes voice-acting with interesting decisions the better. And the more the story can be enacted around you while you're playing the game, the better. When all gameplay goes full-stop (no meaningful decisions, just text or voice-acting) that's when players skip past things.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
To each entertainment form its speciality.
If you want to read, get a book. If you want to interact with other people in a virtual world, play an MMO.
Most gamers don't read quest text because that's not the type of entertainment they're looking for when they pick up a new title.
So yeah, valid question. Why on earth do MMO devs waste so many ressources on quest text when that's the last thing most gamers are looking for?
I disagree about text boxes not fitting into the medium. I also disagree about voice acting being better than text. There is a good reason that many games from companies like Nintendo don't have vocal characters. It can detract from immersion when suddenly that surly big guy has a voice that makes you laugh rather than fear him. Plus it adds dramatically to the cost which causes the quality of the other game parts to go down (see SWTOR)
In my mind you should be free to create your own story in a game. You can't be the hero when everyone else is the hero, and your opponent is the hero, and your all destined to be the best just like everyone else. The story isn't whats really important in the game, its the lore which should encourage you to seek out your own story and carve a place for yourself in that world.
We shouldn't be arguing about people reading text, we should be arguing why the Quests on Rails design has become such a prevelant design that people will do anything to speed it up to get onto other things.
I always read the text if the game:
-Story is interesting, something new
-When important informations in the dialoge window and reading it is the only way to complete the quest
But if the quest are "WoW style quest" (like kill 25 xy) i never read it cuz i don't care why i need to kill the mindless NPCs.