Well I see where you're coming from. With the concept of having thousands of people in one game becoming more and more faint with the ongoing rapidness of the development of other massive games.
It is becoming extremely easy for, pardon my l33t, any n00bs to access a game with so many people. Microsoft for example is coming out with an "xbox pc" which will allow xbox users, in essence, to play mmorpg's. Now I'm not saying they're dying, I'm saying that the concept of the whole mmorpg's being assigned to pc's and pc's only is dying. Sure as hell out pc's are great! and If I had the choice I would sure as hell want mmorpg's to pc's only. For bragging rights mostly.
But to be honest, out high tech games are becoming available to people who don't know the first thing about computers, and that's the only thing that pisses me off. In a way that is, because it's just more people to game with!
I played EQ1 for 4.5 years and have played lots since. I don't think the STYLE is dying, I think that a lot of game companies are trying to make something great and fall short for one reason or another. WoW is actually a very original game in a lot of ways, and other games like WURM online and others coming up like D&L hold new promise. I just think peeps are looking for something Super and getting equivalent with better graphics. It's pretty hard to compete with a game that was as strong a force as EQ1 and others. I'm still watching for my perfect fit, and having fun trying others in between. I have been playing more FPS stand alone games though than I had in a long time.
Does anybody else feel as though the whole concept of an MMORPG is dying out?
Bear with me because I'm not sure how to say this...
No not dying out, but definatly not as nice as it could be.
When we first played MUDS, they were refreshing, all that community, even though it was only 50 or 100 people on the whole server, even though it was text based, you could interact with others (who tended to be social neophytes ie nerds like myself) and we played that for months and years with NO graphics NO music basically NO content.
You have touched on a very NICE point. It has been brought up before. The thing is, back then the games were made by "nerds" FOR "nerds". Kind of the same way the bicycle called the Haro was made by Bob Haro, who spent his life racing bicycles. Same with Gary Turner who made the bicycle called the GT.
Computer games now, especially MMORPGs, are controlled by suits and ties, aka moneymen. The majority who have never ever played a computer game. Or if they ever did, it was pac-man. They definatly do not play games now, not even the ones the companies they own make.
Now we have photorealistic graphical MUDS like EQ2, we have cartoony action-packed MUDS like WoW, but it seems like they're just failing to hold our interest any longer.
I'm starting to feel as though once you play one MUD/MMORPG you've played them all, only thing that changes is the scenery, the graphics, the music, basically the content.
That is why you need to come to game sites like... like... MMORPG.COM! At a site like this one, there are many expericed mmorpg players, in every single mmorpg. They can tell you if there are any that have something new, nothing new, or a few things new. Compare UO to EQ to DAoC to UO to AO to SWG. (I am talking about game features, game mechanics, not graphics) . Each one of those mmorpgs has major game features very different from all other mmorpgs.
When UO/EQ first came out, the expectation from the gaming community was : You play this game for LIFE
STOP THE PRESS!!! NOW THIS IS A NICE ORIGINAL POINT YOU HAVE BROUGHT UP!!! Even Raph Koster, in one of the most famous MMORPG game DEV posts ever (called "The Longest Post" still archived on many fansites) commented that the intended shelf life of a mmorpg is...... five years. After five years, the moneymen could care less about whatever mmorpg they financed. Since by then not only have they made back their investment, and turned a true profit, but the mmorpg is turning soo much true profit that it almost runs itself!
I think alot of developers jumped on the MMORPG bandwagon for exactly that same reason, the prospect of having lifetime customers pay you $10 or $15 a month for basically nothing. You tweak a couple values, give em a "patch" every month, maybe a new dungeon once in a while, you get some suckers to volunteer and do free work by ganking newbies in a werewolf costume and call it an "event." Basically just the ability to milk thousands of people.
You are half right here. It is the moneymen, the suits and ties, who jumped on the bandwagon. The Developers complained about what they were doing, and many of them got fired by the moneymen - like with UO and Lord British. And how even Raph Koster left UO. Same with Horizons. It is the moneymen, the suits and ties who blatantly want to milk hundreds of thousands of people.
And the result is basically what we have now. All these "MMORPG's" coming out want more and more money, you pay for the developed software which usually starts off as a beta, then you pay them $10-$15 a month to test their beta and polish its development.
You are absolutly right. You forgot to mention the record amount of Vaporware in the past 12 months. UXO, Mythica, and many others.
Either way, the developer always makes money.
No! The developer gets fired! The moneymen, the suits and ties are the ones who make the money! Check out the former official Ultima X forms for the saddest case of developers getting their a--es kicked by the moneymen. The saddest case in mmorpg history!
Even if everyone jumps on and quits in the first month, the developer has made money through sales of the CD's.
It depends on how many game boxes are sold. A modern MMORPG needs to sell 100,000 game boxes in order to recoup all its investment money. They do not have to rely on subscriptions as much. If 50,000 game boxes are sold, then they must rely on subscriptions a whole lot more.
Look at WoW, breaking every sales record, you can't even find the CD for sale in some places, now they're breaking records over in Europe. So they got 600-800k people to dish out $50 a pop for a plastic CD in a cardboard box, made up their development costs in spades, and even IF it does a swandive in 2-3 months as hundreds of thousands of customers get bored and quit...so what? They already got their money.
You got it! IF WoW survives at minimum 1 year, (not 2-3 months) at the rate they are going, then Blizzard will be turning a true profit.
600k subscribers x $15/mo x 6 months they can just take that money, shut down the servers and go work on WOW2.
Your calculation is flawed. WoW did not start off at 600k accounts the day it was released. Your calculation is not taking into account how long WoW has had 600k accounts (1 month? 2 months?). A modern MMORPG needs 100k accounts for 1 year in order to re-coup its investment money. After 1 year it will be making a true profit. WoW has definatly had 100k accounts from day of release up to present time. So it can be said WoW is on track to recouping its investment money in 1 year or a bit less time. WoW is on track to making a true profit in 1 year or a bit less time.
Not even gonna mention the poor suckers who paid an extra $40 for a "collector's edition" just to get that lame diablo following them around.
Hey, it is marketing. SWG did the same thing with a collecter's edition. Players who payed more for it got a pewter statue, and inside the game itself, got to wear cool looking sun shades. There was a guy in NYC once who sold... snowballs! During last winter. If someone is willing to buy something, do not make fun of them, instead congratulate the seller for using superb marketing to get the person to buy whatever product it is. That is capitalism for ya!
Not even gonna mention EQ1, where they had hundreds of thousands of subscribers send them $10 a month for years, and still made them buy a $50 box every 6 months.
Yes. And there are even more "worse" examples with EQ. Like in order to go to the ingame bazzar, one is FORCED to buy the expansion WITH the bazaar. Meanwhile other MMORPGs (like Runescape, SWG, and more) have their own versions of the bazzar for... FREEEE!!
The first thought in my mind right now is MAN we got milked and ridden HARD.
No not "We". There are a lot of players satisfied with paying their money for whatever they spent it on. Dude, there are MMORPG players who pay THOUSANDS of REAL LIFE money for ingame items! Houses in UO. Armor and weapons in EQ. And more!
I can go right now and subscribe to WoW for a whole year, it would cost me like $150, and what would I get for that money? Like what, 1 new high level island somewhere? 5 Dungeons? A new class? A new race? I paid $50 for the CD, why would I pay $150 for %1 more content?
Did you know back in the "old days" of MUDs there were people who saw them as garbage? A waste of time and money? Did you know when computer games first came out, and even now, the majority of people feel, and still feel, they are a waste of time and money?
If you do not like WoW, do not play it. Do not pay for it. If you do not like overpriced Ralph Lauren clothing, do not spend your money on it. But there are other people who do enjoy spending their money on Ralph Lauren cloths, and on WoW. If other players are having fun paying $150.oo a year to play WoW, be happy for them! They are getting enjoyment in their life. Your goal should be to continue finding something to enjoy. Either another mmorpg, computer game, or any other hobby like comics, playing pool, riding a motorcycle, camping, going running in races, traveling, etc... If you do not like something, no problem. But don't knock others for liking it.
I think that many other players are feeling the same way I do, this is why we have given up our "play for the rest of your life" mentality, where you accept tiny bits of content for large swaths of cash.
I fully agree with you here. And it is sad that the loyal, quality, consumers of mmorpgs are being steamrolled over, are being overlooked.
This is why so many gamers out there are buying the game, tearing through the content from 2-3 different races/classes, being done with the game in 1-2 months, and uninstalling it, because that's the only way you get value for the money, otherwise you end up paying a monthly fee to login to a glorified chatroom where you just camp the same spawn for 12 hours at a shot and never really PLAY a VIDEO GAME (like you wanted to do in the first place.)
It is more complex than that. Some of the fault lies with gamers. They whine and complain on the game official forums content is too hard, hard to find, etc... aka they are too impatient to learn to play the game. Example: The long running game Runescape. It used to be as soon as you made your character, you appeared in the game world (next to the well near the city with the castle). Now Runescape forces all new players to go through a tutorial, step by step, in special buildings. The game now forces all players to learn to play the game.
Back to other mmorpgs, gamers will go to internet hint, tip, and cheat sites, have zero life for months playing 18 hours every day, then later complain there is no content, or a game is too easy. Gamers will get mad at content that takes thinking, planning, death that really stings hard, content that requires them to approach scenarios in ways other than running in and hacking and slashing. What is a game DEV to do?
In another famous online game discussion site called Anyuzer.com the moderator there brought it up, calling it "catassing". People with no life, too much free time, who play 5, 10, 18 hours a day. Verses people who do have a life, job, family, friends, who play 1, 2, 4 hours a day. What is a game DEV to do? Which group should they listen to? Target their game to? A mmorpg targeted to players who do have a life, will be "finnished" in 2 months by players who do not have a life.
I think the only games these days that actually give value to the customer are FPS type games lke Counterstrike, and Sierra ended up milking THAT too. Counterstrike started out as a Half Life mod. Players made that game. Now Sierra's sitting there making you install Steam, and charging you $29.95 for a game based on their engine that THE PLAYERS THEMSELVES created.
But still, it's much better value than the current gaggle of garbage that passes for an "MMORPG."
1. This is strictly your opinion.
2. Did you know there are gamers who enjoy BOTH Counter-Strike AND mmorpgs? It is not an either or thing. LOL!
3. How many different types of MMORPGs have you played? If you have played 90% of ALL mmorpgs out, then you might be in a position to make a blanket statement that they are garbage. If you have not, then specifically name each mmorpg you have played, length of time played it, highest level character, and server name. So we all have a better idea where you are coming from.
In short, I believe the future of MMORPG's are solely dependent on video game addicts. That's the only reason someone would pay that much money to be bored, is if their lives were so empty that they needed an alter-ego on the internet that was actually powerful and beautiful, unlike themselves. I believe that's the only reason someone would actually play an MMORPG beyond 2-3 months.
This is all strictly your opinion. BTW, the future of ALL computer games, console, PC, mmorpgs, stand alone, FPS, are dependent on video game addicts - even the game you praise called Counter-Strike. You want to see addicts? Go attend the World Cyber Games event and you will see addicts. Including Counter-Strike. Next, there is nothing wrong with being addicted to something - as long as it is not hurting you, or anyone else.
After you've seen all the content, why do you need to keep seeing it?
Treat it like a movie. You pop it in, you watch it, you toss it.
That's what I do now, and I am a much happier gamer than when I spent 2 years playing Everquest.
Good luck to you all.
This last part by you makes no sense. One of the definitions of a MMORPG is that one will never ever see ALL the content. Unlike a FPS, or a Stand Alone Game, or any other type of computer game. MMORPGs are unique in that they are constantly changing, getting new content added throughout the entire life of the mmorpg.
Now, it is possible for "powergamers" aka players who play 5, 10, 18, 24hours a session, to outpace the rate that new content is added.
I've played most of the major MMORPG's and can say that for me UO and Shadowbane have been the closest to my ideal game. The way i see it the 2 big boys on the block eq2 and wow have sold out. They both offer nothing new or innovating to the genra.
(I actually wanted to like eq2 and played hard for 2 months after which i realised that it was not for me.)
i dont think that the mmorpg scene is dieing out. i think that the number of quality games are diminshing. Until the developers raise the bar on their games. I wont be paying to play them. While the 200+ dollars these guys are charging is not a lot I can find better uses for that money. (200 dollars buys alot of books, which are more entertaining than most of these games)
Originally posted by saeben While the 200+ dollars these guys are charging is not a lot I can find better uses for that money. (200 dollars buys alot of books, which are more entertaining than most of these games)
/agree. And with the prospect of more and more subpar mmorpgs coming out, I find myself venturing into my vault of reading material more and more. I guess this is a good thing.
Nice posts, people! Have enjoyed reading this thread. Nothing more to add other than there is a big shake-up happening and I suspect the mass-market i.e. casual, rather than power/hardcore player, will predominate.
Like most have stated, players really have the power by voting with their dollars (or local currency) by either waiting for reviews, free trials and not purchasing the game if it doesn't appeal to them. Perhaps players ought to indulge in a moment of introspection and ask themselves what do they want out of a MMOG. Once they have a handle on their requirements and their playing style, they will be in a much better position to make a judgement on the MMOGs in the market place.
I myself, am a casual gamer (after EQ, I refuse to devote half my life to MMOGs - there are much more entertaining quests, such as the one to pull Asian women. Even though it's a longer camp than the Cleric Epic back in EQ) with a hardcore attitude i.e. I prefer to play semi-casually but in a hardcore environement - one where I am faced with a challenge.
Whilst waiting for DnL, I reached an epiphany: have we forgot the main reason for playing MMOGs or any other game for that matter? FUN! No-one mentions FUN anymore. We make MMOGs to be a chore, a second life (that's not an advert for the game) - no wonder that we're burnt out. For me EQ, was almost a virtual life even though I played semi-casual. But the reason I played - until SoL was released - was because I had FUN with a capital 'F'.
Should the question also be, which of the current MMOGs - be they casual or hardcore - are actually fun to play? The reason for my question is because I'm seriously considering CoH (or rather, CoV when it's released) purely because it actually seems like a well-polished game that is fun to play for the casual gamer. Sure, I don't expect the complexity of EQ but I do expect to still have fun.
Regards, Riotgirl
"If you think I'm plucky and scrappy and all I need is love, you're in way over your head. I don't have a heart of gold or get nice. There are a lot nicer people coming up. We call them losers."
Only thing dieng out on MMORPG's is the RPG element got too many new generatation people who have never played a real online game like a Text MUD back in late 80's and early 90's thats was when online gaming was really fun.But now its a bunch of new school kids who lost the true ways of the online RPG games.
When UO/EQ first came out, the expectation from the gaming community was : You play this game for LIFE
Uh... I don't know *ANYONE* who *ever* had that expectation.
Play it a "long time" yes... and for a computer game 2-3 years is a very long time, and some have played it much longer than that... but life? psh. When m59 started I remember talking about the "next best thing" after fiddling on a friends puter on it a bit, when I got in UO beta I remember talking about "this being amazing" and "imagine what kinda games are coming up in 5-6 years from now"... no one ever expected these to be lifelong commitments... or at least most of us didn't.
That thing about paying 40 extra dollars for a lame diablo........who says I got the collectors edition for a lame pet? I play a warrior...what do I care if i have a stupid pet? I would pay that extra 40 dollars for the art book because I am interested in art...and so far I love all the art i have seen from warcraft/blizzard, I love.
And that $50 that we are paying for "a plastic disc and cardboard box", its not only that. We are paying $50 dollars for the "information" that has been put on to that plastic disc for us to play and enjoy at our own expenses. Because personally I can sit here and say that I cannot create a gme like this. So 50 dollars for the game is not a big deal. Because you are paying for quality, service, the game, the expenses they used to create the game and ETC.
And you complain about how we pay all this money. you knwo what, they deserve the money. you know how much it costs companies to make games like this. Because thing about this, think about what they havae to spend money on:
-employees -Special people for graphics, programming, etc. -all the costs for electricty and all that.
And theres alot more that they have to pay.
Also, your concept of "You played one, you've played them all." Thats alot of crap bro. I've played EQ, DAoC, WoW, SB, horizons, SWG, FFXI, CoH, and PS. And not from one have I gotten the feeling of "Oh, I feel like i've played this game before. Because the stories are different, and the items and everything, if they do them right makes you feel like you are really in the time that they are suggesting.
And the whole thing is yea, of course they are charging $30 for say counter-strike. the peopel that made it, "players", well let me see. they went and now or did work for sierra, so now counter-strike is there property, so now the "players that made it" are getting the money for it and I;m sure they still are getting the money for it.
--------------------------------------------- WoW -Rhalon 85 B.E. rogue -Rhalon 81 UD Mage -Doneski 85 Orc death knight
"Everyones life has a beginning and an end, No one can change that."-Hiko "If you wish to taste the ground, then feel free to attack."-Kenshin Himura ---------------------------------------------
I'm all for nostalgia been playing computer games since 1985 on my pcjr. I think a lot of people have selective memory when they think of the good ol' days.
The more inclusives games will succeed, when the most exclusives will fail. The this OR that attitude is automatically bringing doom to a company as soon as another is more inclusive. If anything is not optional in your game(enforced or lack of it), you are losing ground. Vanguard have a part of the solution with specific server rules, the path is founded, but, much remain to be worked. Especially, friends on differents server should be able to group together, maybe with some penalty, the more casual server receiving the more hardcorish folks, yet, at some penalty for the hardcorish, they wont play there to kill time, they will go on casual servers only because RL friends are there, you dont want to completely waste their time, but slower progression will be fine...and they will resume their hardcorish server setting when their friends go to sleep.
A casual only game is more inclusive then a hardcore only game, but a game that combine both for exemple will simply rip their competitors. 1 system and 1 high end only is flawed and automatically left 90% out of their interest pool, ''casuals'' and ''hardcores'' dont define in 2 simple pools, the reality is much more complex. I am a hardcore soloer, I am sure there is some casuals raiders out there, so restricting raiding to hardcores and solo to casuals will NOT work, any other lame restriction setting will also fail. Options, not obligations.
I strongly believe in ''intelligent level caps'', past an amount of knowledge, the excess is simply of no use. Call it realism(dont believe in it) or maintaining the challenge rating. Everyone above level X are level X in that dungeon, and in this dungeon, every gear you want is here or before, not later, a casual need to find all he may desire in the zones he have mastered and access. The ultimate sword of hellish releasing you earn against the last mob of the game need to be weak except in the most hardcores zone, where it become the strongest tool. If a casual is denied of his tools, you fail. If a hardcore is denied of his hunting ground, tools, more stuff to earn, you also fail. The casual need every tools inside the dungeons he hunt, nothing can be outside of it, nothing. I am a hardcore and I will only find it funny if I lack in dungeon Noobish, I can earn my local uberness in the dungeon if I care. Could also be wise to use a different system, where peoples have more then a strict level progression, could be levels in differents setting, so a casual dont feel backward in anyway despite not having earn the hardcore stuff...anyway, lot of work it will be, but the reward is certainly worth it.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by ajaxx I'm all for nostalgia been playing computer games since 1985 on my pcjr. I think a lot of people have selective memory when they think of the good ol' days.
LOL! I remember the ole' IBM PC jr! My school had them. We played the first King's Quest on it heheh. It was one of the greatest, hardest, brain numbing, RPGs ever! LOL! No help sites, no customer service heheh, no hints, no tips, it was just players pushing their brains to the limit, experimenting with the game to see "what happens if I do this?".
Originally posted by tu_uilwen Also, your concept of "You played one, you've played them all." Thats alot of crap bro. I've played EQ, DAoC, WoW, SB, horizons, SWG, FFXI, CoH, and PS. And not from one have I gotten the feeling of "Oh, I feel like i've played this game before. Because the stories are different, and the items and everything, if they do them right makes you feel like you are really in the time that they are suggesting.
I agree with the rest of your post bro, except this part. All the games which are PVE are the same go kill stuff to lvl up to kill more stuff, quests dont have any great meaning they dont shape the world in anyway. Items are all the same maybe they have different skins or properties attached to them. The stories and immersion may be the only strong point to these game...but like i said earlier, one can get a better story by reading a book.
Another thing you said was
"And you complain about how we pay all this money. you knwo what, they deserve the money."
They dont deserve squat...I dont care if they worked ten years on a project and spent millions of dollars. They are not getting jack from me unless they put out a quality product. I'm not in the business of giving money to people based on who i think deserves it.
You know what that say "A fool and his money are soon parted." I think that alot of ppl are being duped for thier money, most these games feel like work to me. These companies should be paying me. Thats why I will be hesitant to try any new MMORPGS. Once they come up with a truly Fun game to play they wont be gettin my loot.
sorry if i come off, as being harsh or offensive. I dont mean to...
Originally posted by rentantilus When you see a new MMORPG, honestly think to yourself: "Is this game designed to EARN my $15 per month subscription with content, originality, and long-term value, or is it just designed to SCAM me out of $50 when I buy the box at the store with flashy advertising, biased reviews, and empty promises?"
Who does this guy think he is! You know one might say hes a genius because he is better than the average poster on the fact that he wrote it all in neat little paragraphs not straying too much from the topic at hand. I likes this thread. Lots of truth, some minor things that shouldnt have been said or at least re-worded. Then again, its only because it was from the writers POV(point of view).
Comments
Well I see where you're coming from. With the concept of having thousands of people in one game becoming more and more faint with the ongoing rapidness of the development of other massive games.
It is becoming extremely easy for, pardon my l33t, any n00bs to access a game with so many people. Microsoft for example is coming out with an "xbox pc" which will allow xbox users, in essence, to play mmorpg's. Now I'm not saying they're dying, I'm saying that the concept of the whole mmorpg's being assigned to pc's and pc's only is dying. Sure as hell out pc's are great! and If I had the choice I would sure as hell want mmorpg's to pc's only. For bragging rights mostly.
But to be honest, out high tech games are becoming available to people who don't know the first thing about computers, and that's the only thing that pisses me off. In a way that is, because it's just more people to game with!
http://www.facebook.com/murtb
Tacklebury --}>>>
This last part by you makes no sense. One of the definitions of a MMORPG is that one will never ever see ALL the content. Unlike a FPS, or a Stand Alone Game, or any other type of computer game. MMORPGs are unique in that they are constantly changing, getting new content added throughout the entire life of the mmorpg.
Now, it is possible for "powergamers" aka players who play 5, 10, 18, 24hours a session, to outpace the rate that new content is added.
I've played most of the major MMORPG's and can say that for me UO and Shadowbane have been the closest to my ideal game. The way i see it the 2 big boys on the block eq2 and wow have sold out. They both offer nothing new or innovating to the genra.
(I actually wanted to like eq2 and played hard for 2 months after which i realised that it was not for me.)
i dont think that the mmorpg scene is dieing out. i think that the number of quality games are diminshing. Until the developers raise the bar on their games. I wont be paying to play them. While the 200+ dollars these guys are charging is not a lot I can find better uses for that money. (200 dollars buys alot of books, which are more entertaining than most of these games)
I cant find a "soul" in any new mmos and thats sad
Nice posts, people! Have enjoyed reading this thread. Nothing more to add other than there is a big shake-up happening and I suspect the mass-market i.e. casual, rather than power/hardcore player, will predominate.
Like most have stated, players really have the power by voting with their dollars (or local currency) by either waiting for reviews, free trials and not purchasing the game if it doesn't appeal to them. Perhaps players ought to indulge in a moment of introspection and ask themselves what do they want out of a MMOG. Once they have a handle on their requirements and their playing style, they will be in a much better position to make a judgement on the MMOGs in the market place.
I myself, am a casual gamer (after EQ, I refuse to devote half my life to MMOGs - there are much more entertaining quests, such as the one to pull Asian women. Even though it's a longer camp than the Cleric Epic back in EQ) with a hardcore attitude i.e. I prefer to play semi-casually but in a hardcore environement - one where I am faced with a challenge.
Whilst waiting for DnL, I reached an epiphany: have we forgot the main reason for playing MMOGs or any other game for that matter? FUN! No-one mentions FUN anymore. We make MMOGs to be a chore, a second life (that's not an advert for the game) - no wonder that we're burnt out. For me EQ, was almost a virtual life even though I played semi-casual. But the reason I played - until SoL was released - was because I had FUN with a capital 'F'.
Should the question also be, which of the current MMOGs - be they casual or hardcore - are actually fun to play? The reason for my question is because I'm seriously considering CoH (or rather, CoV when it's released) purely because it actually seems like a well-polished game that is fun to play for the casual gamer. Sure, I don't expect the complexity of EQ but I do expect to still have fun.
Regards,
Riotgirl
"If you think I'm plucky and scrappy and all I need is love, you're in way over your head. I don't have a heart of gold or get nice. There are a lot nicer people coming up. We call them losers."
Uh... I don't know *ANYONE* who *ever* had that expectation.
Play it a "long time" yes... and for a computer game 2-3 years is a very long time, and some have played it much longer than that... but life? psh. When m59 started I remember talking about the "next best thing" after fiddling on a friends puter on it a bit, when I got in UO beta I remember talking about "this being amazing" and "imagine what kinda games are coming up in 5-6 years from now"... no one ever expected these to be lifelong commitments... or at least most of us didn't.
Shadus
Heres my opinion.
That thing about paying 40 extra dollars for a lame diablo........who says I got the collectors edition for a lame pet? I play a warrior...what do I care if i have a stupid pet? I would pay that extra 40 dollars for the art book because I am interested in art...and so far I love all the art i have seen from warcraft/blizzard, I love.
And that $50 that we are paying for "a plastic disc and cardboard box", its not only that. We are paying $50 dollars for the "information" that has been put on to that plastic disc for us to play and enjoy at our own expenses. Because personally I can sit here and say that I cannot create a gme like this. So 50 dollars for the game is not a big deal. Because you are paying for quality, service, the game, the expenses they used to create the game and ETC.
And you complain about how we pay all this money. you knwo what, they deserve the money. you know how much it costs companies to make games like this. Because thing about this, think about what they havae to spend money on:
-employees
-Special people for graphics, programming, etc.
-all the costs for electricty and all that.
And theres alot more that they have to pay.
Also, your concept of "You played one, you've played them all." Thats alot of crap bro. I've played EQ, DAoC, WoW, SB, horizons, SWG, FFXI, CoH, and PS. And not from one have I gotten the feeling of "Oh, I feel like i've played this game before. Because the stories are different, and the items and everything, if they do them right makes you feel like you are really in the time that they are suggesting.
And the whole thing is yea, of course they are charging $30 for say counter-strike. the peopel that made it, "players", well let me see. they went and now or did work for sierra, so now counter-strike is there property, so now the "players that made it" are getting the money for it and I;m sure they still are getting the money for it.
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WoW
-Rhalon 85 B.E. rogue
-Rhalon 81 UD Mage
-Doneski 85 Orc death knight
"Everyones life has a beginning and an end, No one can change that."-Hiko
"If you wish to taste the ground, then feel free to attack."-Kenshin Himura
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I'm all for nostalgia been playing computer games since 1985 on my pcjr. I think a lot of people have selective memory when they think of the good ol' days.
The more inclusives games will succeed, when the most exclusives will fail. The this OR that attitude is automatically bringing doom to a company as soon as another is more inclusive. If anything is not optional in your game(enforced or lack of it), you are losing ground. Vanguard have a part of the solution with specific server rules, the path is founded, but, much remain to be worked. Especially, friends on differents server should be able to group together, maybe with some penalty, the more casual server receiving the more hardcorish folks, yet, at some penalty for the hardcorish, they wont play there to kill time, they will go on casual servers only because RL friends are there, you dont want to completely waste their time, but slower progression will be fine...and they will resume their hardcorish server setting when their friends go to sleep.
A casual only game is more inclusive then a hardcore only game, but a game that combine both for exemple will simply rip their competitors. 1 system and 1 high end only is flawed and automatically left 90% out of their interest pool, ''casuals'' and ''hardcores'' dont define in 2 simple pools, the reality is much more complex. I am a hardcore soloer, I am sure there is some casuals raiders out there, so restricting raiding to hardcores and solo to casuals will NOT work, any other lame restriction setting will also fail. Options, not obligations.
I strongly believe in ''intelligent level caps'', past an amount of knowledge, the excess is simply of no use. Call it realism(dont believe in it) or maintaining the challenge rating. Everyone above level X are level X in that dungeon, and in this dungeon, every gear you want is here or before, not later, a casual need to find all he may desire in the zones he have mastered and access. The ultimate sword of hellish releasing you earn against the last mob of the game need to be weak except in the most hardcores zone, where it become the strongest tool. If a casual is denied of his tools, you fail. If a hardcore is denied of his hunting ground, tools, more stuff to earn, you also fail. The casual need every tools inside the dungeons he hunt, nothing can be outside of it, nothing. I am a hardcore and I will only find it funny if I lack in dungeon Noobish, I can earn my local uberness in the dungeon if I care. Could also be wise to use a different system, where peoples have more then a strict level progression, could be levels in differents setting, so a casual dont feel backward in anyway despite not having earn the hardcore stuff...anyway, lot of work it will be, but the reward is certainly worth it.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I agree with the rest of your post bro, except this part. All the games which are PVE are the same go kill stuff to lvl up to kill more stuff, quests dont have any great meaning they dont shape the world in anyway. Items are all the same maybe they have different skins or properties attached to them. The stories and immersion may be the only strong point to these game...but like i said earlier, one can get a better story by reading a book.
Another thing you said was
"And you complain about how we pay all this money. you knwo what, they deserve the money."
They dont deserve squat...I dont care if they worked ten years on a project and spent millions of dollars. They are not getting jack from me unless they put out a quality product. I'm not in the business of giving money to people based on who i think deserves it.
You know what that say "A fool and his money are soon parted." I think that alot of ppl are being duped for thier money, most these games feel like work to me. These companies should be paying me. Thats why I will be hesitant to try any new MMORPGS. Once they come up with a truly Fun game to play they wont be gettin my loot.
sorry if i come off, as being harsh or offensive. I dont mean to...
Nice sig rentantilus....
Who does this guy think he is! You know one might say hes a genius because he is better than the average poster on the fact that he wrote it all in neat little paragraphs not straying too much from the topic at hand. I likes this thread. Lots of truth, some minor things that shouldnt have been said or at least re-worded. Then again, its only because it was from the writers POV(point of view).