legal right? no way. it will probably cost more (through tax) to pay a burecracy to make sure this right is maintained.
companies should be free to do whatever they want as long as they are not harming other people/their property.
i think companies should do proper beta testing (like arche age), it will be better for the industry. most companies these days do fake betas where it would be impossible for them to make fixes considering proximity to the release date + the betas they conduct are no where near long enough. its all about getting people to preorder.
if you dont like something a developer is doing, vote with your wallets and be critical when talking about said developer online. far too many people get bitten by the hype bug and end up supporting poor games. imagine if swtor got only 100k box sales. EA would most likely be in huge shit and they might of even got out of business. huge win for gamers.
The beta that most people get into is a commercial beta used to advertise the game. It is a demo of the game to try and hook people into pre-ordering the game.
Anything that you are going to use for a 'life time" of use you should be able to try before you buy. This includes test driving a car, sitting on a sofa, or a new channel on sallite TV.
It is not only good consumer policy it is also good business. The highest sellers are those that allow people to try the thing out before buying it. There is a reason why the hottub/jacuzzi business is such a dire one. This business doesn't allow for people to try out the hottub/jacuzzi before buying it. Instead they are laced with purchase warranties that cover breakdowns.
If you are not going to offer a demo you should offer a warranty on the product. A warranty isn't necessarily a we will fix your computer type thing it is an assurance of quality. By listing out a warranty it gives a specific time point for fixing anything.
In this regard warranties become more expensive for the gaming world than demos. If there are massive bugs in a game that do not get fixed in 24 hours you are likely to have to refund a lot of games very often.
The demo gives a player assurance that they are playing something that is polished and fun. If a game sucks no one makes a demo for it. These games are trying to trick people into playing their games.
As a consumer if you purchase a faulty product that does not offer a sample, there is a 24 hour return policy. This policy is not company policy, it is law. With MMOs people rarely ever try to push this. It took me 2 hours to get a refund on my pre-order of Age of Conan (which didn't offer open beta access to millions of people).
Majority of people couldn't properly Beta test a game even when a Beta Testing for Dummies smacked em across the head. Like this numbskull in the Neverwinter forums, all he wants is a DDO 2 in Neverwinter whose judgement is so god damn scewed it's ridiculous. He twists everything to how is should model after DDO which the same applie the the majority of players.
Should be have a right to Beta test as in Alpha testers? Hell no
Should there be an ample amount of trial before purchase as in open beta test yes.
No, gamers shouldn't have the "right" to do anything associated with the development of a game. They have the right to buy the game if it is offered in their country, and that's it. I have read multiple constitutions for multiple countries, and none of them give gamers the right to do anything gaming related other than buy a product after its release.
What they need to do is stop calling it beta and call it public review or something.
Until the phrases "I'm in beta" or "I got a beta key" lose power, value or importance with MMO gamers, it will still be called Beta. However, the phrase has so much power and influence that there are people who will preorder a $50-$130 retail box just to get into it... especially if they are also given a colored stick to wave around once they're there.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Actually, I like to pay my employer for the right to work for free.
Originally posted by Nailzzz The one thing that i miss about the world pre-internet is that people used diary's to write down all the retarded crap they had floating around in there head's and no one ever had to see it.
All of these redundant WoW-clones have deteriorated my yearning to care. Age of Conan? Warhammer? Aion? Tera? Star Trek Online? SWTOR? It's all the same old crap. My beta sessions have turned into "trial" sessions. They devs don't change anything, anwyays. The just fix bugs to what is already a doomed game.
I think public beta testing should be taken more seriously by the companies.
They usually only provide a very short time for public testing and don't provide high level characters, so only the first few levels get actually tested. When we look back at SWTOR, illum wasn't tested at all with real players and it was a total mess, because it broke PvP progression.
For that you just need open testing with a character wipe.
If you only test the first few levels, it's just like a limited demo and the players treat it like that.
Hmmmm.........Back in the old days definitley not. However the world has changed now. If publishers are asking people to put down large sums of money before a release date is even set for pre-orders and collectors editions, then those players are contributing to the development of the game imo and should be alowed in the test. Also, as many of us have been badly stung by AAA releases over the last 6-7 years then I feel it's only natural for people to want to get a early peak at the game to see if it's something they want to buy. However the sense of entitlement that a lot of posters and gamers I have seen vocalising their opinions on these boards and others is enough to make you loose faith in humanity. I think once companies started advertising beta access as a selling point that they changed the nature of the whole process.
Beta is always an interesting phase, especially open beta......How a game handles this tells me alot about the company and how confident they are in the game.....Some games offer free open beta access to everyone who applies...It runs for a short time span (usually 1-2 weeks sometimes longer) and all players are welcome to try the game.......Others offer beta access if you preorder the game (ie buying your way into beta) which is a practice that has become alot more common the last couple of years......I feel that if a game is good enough then they should offer open beta to stress test the game and give players a good preview......Its kinda like test driving a car before buying it.
I dont beleive player should be entitled to a garantee beta test before release (open beta) of the game, however the moment they put money down on a product then i beleive there entitle because it shows there supporting the game and will be willing to help the beta process by finding bugs so the devs can fix them because the player has already put money down they want the game to work (Guildwars 2 prepurchase basicly which there doing giving access to all future beta event till game release). You will fin d in open beta people will find a few bugs not bother reporting them or anything and not buy the game because its filled with bugs despite IT IS STILL IN BETA, yes caps there because half the people who play open beta thinks this is the finished product not a testing period.
NO! beta testing should involve players that will actually test the game and submit known bugs, exploits, feedback etc... so that they can come up with a solution prior to release. Players think because they are paying $50 they are entitled to things such as beta and thats just BS. The only thing I want as a paying customer is a well developed game that doesn't get released while still feeling like its in beta. Being a long time MMO player I am fully aware of the hiccups many games face at release and stuff like that is always expected. As a tester though it really upsets me that issues fall thru the cracks or you meet other testers that complain that their characters are being deleted at release or that they aren't getting any rewards for doing something that is not only voluntary but allows them to do something alot of players only wish they could....play the game early and give feedback based on personal experiences in game whether its good or bad.
NO! beta testing should involve players that will actually test the game and submit known bugs, exploits, feedback etc... so that they can come up with a solution prior to release. Players think because they are paying $50 they are entitled to things such as beta and thats just BS.
Your missing the point that access is actually sold as a feature of the pre purchase though.
If you are getting in to a 'beta' because of a pre order it's not for 'testing' purposes, it's for commericial promotion purposes. Times have changed, these are not the betas as they used to be.
So... am I entitled to get in to a beta if it has been listed as a feature of the pre order? Of course I am, that stands to reason.
I don't know many, even on these forums, that feel entitled to it unless it is promised. Most seem to hope for it, but feel 'entitled'? I don't see that at all.
There is no right, and will never be one for Beta Testing.
But, for Stress Testing you need the players, and it is good for marketing (open beta events after stress test). But overall Beta for players is nowadays more of a marketing feature, and that for a good reason. The usual players dont fit for real Beta testing.
And in all seriousness core beta testing is better in the hand of internal beta testers, as long as you dont need a lot of player to test something.
I would say, "No." There is no inherent right to Beta test a game, unless a company offers that Beta access as a promise in exhange for early purchase.
i approbe beta, but i must agree in that it fucks the success of an MMO, like someone said in the first page of this thread, "people exploits all the content in the beta, and when the game launches they moan and bitch because they get to the endgame in a week or less".......
so the conclusion is that devs shouldnt make beta testing, or if they are gonna do it, tey should ask the help of professional tester, not casual gamers...it will have a cost, but at least people will be more hype in the official launch, of course if the game is capable of keep the players interested for a long time, and dont nail it in the initial launch like all the garbage that is released every year.
Comments
legal right? no way. it will probably cost more (through tax) to pay a burecracy to make sure this right is maintained.
companies should be free to do whatever they want as long as they are not harming other people/their property.
i think companies should do proper beta testing (like arche age), it will be better for the industry. most companies these days do fake betas where it would be impossible for them to make fixes considering proximity to the release date + the betas they conduct are no where near long enough. its all about getting people to preorder.
if you dont like something a developer is doing, vote with your wallets and be critical when talking about said developer online. far too many people get bitten by the hype bug and end up supporting poor games. imagine if swtor got only 100k box sales. EA would most likely be in huge shit and they might of even got out of business. huge win for gamers.
Absolutely.
I will clarify though
The beta that most people get into is a commercial beta used to advertise the game. It is a demo of the game to try and hook people into pre-ordering the game.
Anything that you are going to use for a 'life time" of use you should be able to try before you buy. This includes test driving a car, sitting on a sofa, or a new channel on sallite TV.
It is not only good consumer policy it is also good business. The highest sellers are those that allow people to try the thing out before buying it. There is a reason why the hottub/jacuzzi business is such a dire one. This business doesn't allow for people to try out the hottub/jacuzzi before buying it. Instead they are laced with purchase warranties that cover breakdowns.
If you are not going to offer a demo you should offer a warranty on the product. A warranty isn't necessarily a we will fix your computer type thing it is an assurance of quality. By listing out a warranty it gives a specific time point for fixing anything.
In this regard warranties become more expensive for the gaming world than demos. If there are massive bugs in a game that do not get fixed in 24 hours you are likely to have to refund a lot of games very often.
The demo gives a player assurance that they are playing something that is polished and fun. If a game sucks no one makes a demo for it. These games are trying to trick people into playing their games.
As a consumer if you purchase a faulty product that does not offer a sample, there is a 24 hour return policy. This policy is not company policy, it is law. With MMOs people rarely ever try to push this. It took me 2 hours to get a refund on my pre-order of Age of Conan (which didn't offer open beta access to millions of people).
Website: http://www.thegameguru.me / YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/users/thetroublmaker
Majority of people couldn't properly Beta test a game even when a Beta Testing for Dummies smacked em across the head. Like this numbskull in the Neverwinter forums, all he wants is a DDO 2 in Neverwinter whose judgement is so god damn scewed it's ridiculous. He twists everything to how is should model after DDO which the same applie the the majority of players.
Should be have a right to Beta test as in Alpha testers? Hell no
Should there be an ample amount of trial before purchase as in open beta test yes.
Most companies don't have the balls for it.
Don't like the game? Tough shit, your money's gone.
No, gamers shouldn't have the "right" to do anything associated with the development of a game. They have the right to buy the game if it is offered in their country, and that's it. I have read multiple constitutions for multiple countries, and none of them give gamers the right to do anything gaming related other than buy a product after its release.
So much confusion between beta testing and getting a free trial.
Until the phrases "I'm in beta" or "I got a beta key" lose power, value or importance with MMO gamers, it will still be called Beta. However, the phrase has so much power and influence that there are people who will preorder a $50-$130 retail box just to get into it... especially if they are also given a colored stick to wave around once they're there.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
A good company launching a good product will always allow players to beta test their mmorpg.
On the other hand, i would never buy a game i didnt get invite to beta test for at least 24hrs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_testing
See, not at all a free trial.
I like to work for free.
Actually, I like to pay my employer for the right to work for free.
Originally posted by Nailzzz
The one thing that i miss about the world pre-internet is that people used diary's to write down all the retarded crap they had floating around in there head's and no one ever had to see it.
All of these redundant WoW-clones have deteriorated my yearning to care. Age of Conan? Warhammer? Aion? Tera? Star Trek Online? SWTOR? It's all the same old crap. My beta sessions have turned into "trial" sessions. They devs don't change anything, anwyays. The just fix bugs to what is already a doomed game.
I think public beta testing should be taken more seriously by the companies.
They usually only provide a very short time for public testing and don't provide high level characters, so only the first few levels get actually tested. When we look back at SWTOR, illum wasn't tested at all with real players and it was a total mess, because it broke PvP progression.
For that you just need open testing with a character wipe.
If you only test the first few levels, it's just like a limited demo and the players treat it like that.
Agree 100%
Beta is always an interesting phase, especially open beta......How a game handles this tells me alot about the company and how confident they are in the game.....Some games offer free open beta access to everyone who applies...It runs for a short time span (usually 1-2 weeks sometimes longer) and all players are welcome to try the game.......Others offer beta access if you preorder the game (ie buying your way into beta) which is a practice that has become alot more common the last couple of years......I feel that if a game is good enough then they should offer open beta to stress test the game and give players a good preview......Its kinda like test driving a car before buying it.
I dont beleive player should be entitled to a garantee beta test before release (open beta) of the game, however the moment they put money down on a product then i beleive there entitle because it shows there supporting the game and will be willing to help the beta process by finding bugs so the devs can fix them because the player has already put money down they want the game to work (Guildwars 2 prepurchase basicly which there doing giving access to all future beta event till game release). You will fin d in open beta people will find a few bugs not bother reporting them or anything and not buy the game because its filled with bugs despite IT IS STILL IN BETA, yes caps there because half the people who play open beta thinks this is the finished product not a testing period.
NO! beta testing should involve players that will actually test the game and submit known bugs, exploits, feedback etc... so that they can come up with a solution prior to release. Players think because they are paying $50 they are entitled to things such as beta and thats just BS. The only thing I want as a paying customer is a well developed game that doesn't get released while still feeling like its in beta. Being a long time MMO player I am fully aware of the hiccups many games face at release and stuff like that is always expected. As a tester though it really upsets me that issues fall thru the cracks or you meet other testers that complain that their characters are being deleted at release or that they aren't getting any rewards for doing something that is not only voluntary but allows them to do something alot of players only wish they could....play the game early and give feedback based on personal experiences in game whether its good or bad.
Your missing the point that access is actually sold as a feature of the pre purchase though.
If you are getting in to a 'beta' because of a pre order it's not for 'testing' purposes, it's for commericial promotion purposes. Times have changed, these are not the betas as they used to be.
So... am I entitled to get in to a beta if it has been listed as a feature of the pre order? Of course I am, that stands to reason.
I don't know many, even on these forums, that feel entitled to it unless it is promised. Most seem to hope for it, but feel 'entitled'? I don't see that at all.
There is no right, and will never be one for Beta Testing.
But, for Stress Testing you need the players, and it is good for marketing (open beta events after stress test). But overall Beta for players is nowadays more of a marketing feature, and that for a good reason. The usual players dont fit for real Beta testing.
And in all seriousness core beta testing is better in the hand of internal beta testers, as long as you dont need a lot of player to test something.
Re: SWTOR
"Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"
i approbe beta, but i must agree in that it fucks the success of an MMO, like someone said in the first page of this thread, "people exploits all the content in the beta, and when the game launches they moan and bitch because they get to the endgame in a week or less".......
so the conclusion is that devs shouldnt make beta testing, or if they are gonna do it, tey should ask the help of professional tester, not casual gamers...it will have a cost, but at least people will be more hype in the official launch, of course if the game is capable of keep the players interested for a long time, and dont nail it in the initial launch like all the garbage that is released every year.