Yep, that is definitely good news - I hope Secret World does as well
TSW have Day/night cycles and also I'm 100% sure it has at least rain as an weather condition.
also, TSW dynamic lighting allows dark places where you can only see if you use a lantern or other source of light, there is a PvP arena that is VERY dark (I think it is located in a Basement, so it is probably one of those Fight Clubs FFA PvP), and you need some source of light to clearly see the opponents (but when you turn on your lantern others can see you).
One reason is its effect on lag to some extent and another reason is without a cycle the developers have more freedom to set the overall mood of the zone / area.
Or maybe they just want to see how imaginative their fans can be in finding sub par reasons?
One reason is its effect on lag to some extent and another reason is without a cycle the developers have more freedom to set the overall mood of the zone / area.
Not just true.
Any old MMO player have their favorite zones that turned from a happy place in the day to something scary and sinister looking at night. It was awesome. It allows you to set 2 moods instead of one.
If games could do it 15 years ago with minimal lag so can modern games on new computers.
Daycycles is a simple thing that makes the game a lot more alive..
TSW have Day/night cycles and also I'm 100% sure it has at least rain as an weather condition.
also, TSW dynamic lighting allows dark places where you can only see if you use a lantern or other source of light, there is a PvP arena that is VERY dark (I think it is located in a Basement, so it is probably one of those Fight Clubs FFA PvP), and you need some source of light to clearly see the opponents (but when you turn on your lantern others can see you).
That is good, real good.
GW2 have Dynamic events that only starts in certain weather, like lightning elementals that spawn due to lightning strike.
Maybe things are looking up with this issue finally.
GW2 has day/night cycles and weather.. Just sayin' ..
wait it does? that... makes me so happy...
From the videos I have seen, it certainly looks like it does which is good news
it won't be anymore dynamic then the other games mentioned in this thread. the day/night cycle is on a 4 hour loop.
day/night cycle is still nice. and it's not like you can make it dynamic. unless you have to sacrifice enemies in the mists to get your sun to come up. weather would be fantastic though. at the very least rain and snow.
EDIT: locke, what's your source on the weather related DEs? because those sound righteous.
One reason is its effect on lag to some extent and another reason is without a cycle the developers have more freedom to set the overall mood of the zone / area.
Not just true.
Any old MMO player have their favorite zones that turned from a happy place in the day to something scary and sinister looking at night. It was awesome. It allows you to set 2 moods instead of one.
If games could do it 15 years ago with minimal lag so can modern games on new computers.
Daycycles is a simple thing that makes the game a lot more alive..
/QFT
That is dynamic and really adds diversity to the world.
I find this new trend annoying and as much as it may not be as important as some gameplay features, it is a huge immersion breaker for me.
Several of the new MMOs I have played implemented neither of these systems. SW:TOR didn't have it, the reasons given on the forums were because "it might confuse people".
We seem to do fine with the concept of day and night here on earth, and similarly with weather, so I don't really see who it stands to confuse except possibly people who come from planets with no weather or day/night cycles.
After all, so much is made of Tatooine's sunsets and the danger of Hoth's night but in TOR, both planets feel consequence free. Hoth feels more like a ski resort than the cold and dangerous place it supposedly is
Moving on to TERA, I was really looking forward to this game but within about 20 minutes of playing it, I realised that it to, had no weather or day/night cycle. As with TOR, there are a few zones where it is clouded over and raining but it stays that way constantly and is restricted to those few small zones.
EnMasse's excuse, the game is a God's dream and he doesn't dream about weather or night/day cycles. This sounds to me like "we can't be bothered". I quite like TERA but I am sick of every zone I enter being sunny and bright.
Where are the "Kithicor's" and "Feerot's" of old where a change in the time of day changed the level of danger in the zone and when wandering through a Stormy Nektulos at night or visiting Pre-CU Dath in SWG actually felt foreboding?
It seems we are going backwards in terms of design. Why bother with dynamic weather or a day/night cycle when it is far easier to have a perpetual sunny summer day at around noon.
After all, we wouldn't want to confuse anyone :rolleyes:
Max profit, getting as many subs as they can so it must run on almost every pc sinds 2000 :P
Thats why its dx9.0c and special design of player and npcs models so even a lowend pc can run this game.
But even tho i agree that day/night and weather would be nice i quit after 20min becouse of the quests kill10x this collect 4x that:P Game have nothing for me so i quit a new game in 20min how sad is that.
I'd have to imagine the main answer to this question would have to be art direction. In SWTOR all of the areas are precisely laid out in a certain composition and the lighting is no exception to this. The lights are static so that they can control exactly how the area will look on first arrival and it all flows together into the one artistic vision for that vista.
Dynamic lightning definitely throws a wrench into controlling the mood, composition, and overall feel of the scene. I do not really agree with making everything static, but it is not a game breaker for me.
I really doubt it is a technical limitation, or project limitation in terms of cutting costs. It would just make most sense it was purely an artistic decision.
Someone somewhere decided that cause day & night cycle does not add anything directly to gameplay (does not affect combat , crafting , gathering , exploring , quests ,etc ) then it is not needed. It saves quite a bit of money AND time. (to make art assets & code it).
Of course there are two things:
- first of all not everything in game have to have direct purpose - there are things like "climate" , immersion , believability ,etc - just things you cannot count or add in excel ,but many of those small things combined can make a huge diffrence
- second - of course instead of using technology that keep getting better (better textures, animations ,game engines , more past experiences that can be used ,etc ) to make things like that matter and maybe make some of them impact gameplay acttually and expand on this idea - create in-game ecology systems , seasons system , make weather impact combat , crafting or questing , heck even exploring - better to cut costs by cutting corners and 'streamline' (how I hate it)
Just effect of corporate thinking , neverending cutting costs , lack of creativity & lack of willingness to take risks
So we've established this is a non-trend. Guess the thread's over?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
One reason is its effect on lag to some extent and another reason is without a cycle the developers have more freedom to set the overall mood of the zone / area.
Not just true.
Any old MMO player have their favorite zones that turned from a happy place in the day to something scary and sinister looking at night. It was awesome. It allows you to set 2 moods instead of one.
If games could do it 15 years ago with minimal lag so can modern games on new computers.
Daycycles is a simple thing that makes the game a lot more alive..
I suspect this was removed because of complaints. Becareful for what you wish for or complain about.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I not only miss weather and day/night cycles...I miss it when night MEANT SOMETHING.
WoW has night. It means everything is slightly less bright, and has a blueish tint. Yay. Some windows have lights in em. Yay.
Remember in EQ when you farmed will-o-wisps for a greater lightstone because wihtout a light source you were a dead man? I'd like that again.
Back when EQ2 first launched, I remember having to buy a torch because it was so dark at night. As someone else already said, in SWG (pre-CU), at night it was very dark on some worlds. I would usually activate a light, but even that only illuminated the area in direct proximity to your character. You still had to navigate through some very poorly illuminated locales.
The sound effects with EQ2's weather system were pretty spectacular. (I only mention this because some games I've played really have not managed to simulate the sound effects as well as that game did.) Once, when I was wearing headphones and it started to rain in game, I glanced outside my window to ensure it wasn't raining outside also because the sound effects were that realistic. I also recall that FFXI had a weather system that actually impacted gameplay depending on certain factors.
I'm currently still playing TOR, and while I enjoy the story, I'm really craving an environment that at least experiences some physical variations from time to time, with a day/night cycle and a wide range of weather and related sound effects. I didn't play much of Rift, admittedly, and I won't be buying TERA regardless, but as someone who got my start with SWG years ago, I suppose I feel very disconnected from game environments that experience little in the way of shifting weather patterns or even just offering a day/night transition.
To sate my craving, I've just been playing Skyrim lately. Mabinogi has a very interesting weather system, but the extremely cartoonish graphics are off-putting for me, so I don't play that game much. GW2 *sounds* promising, but I've been disappointed enough times now (I registered for TOR's forums on 10/21/2008, to show you how long I naively waited for that game with my unrealistic expectations for it) so that I'm not jumping on the hype train anymore, period.
EDIT:
I should add it's not a game breaker for me if a day/night cycle doesn't exist (PSO is still one of my favorite online RPGs of all time, and it didn't have a weather or diurnial cycle), but it's something I really do wish we had in TOR. It would be amazing to see the twin suns setting on Tatooine, or to see Alderaan at night. I was amazed at just how different Taris looked in the evening (Republic characters see Taris during the day while Imperials see it at night). When I went there with my Imperial character, I was again reminded at how much I missed having a day/night cycle.
I don't agree with devs saying it's a technical limitation. EQ, UO, AC and DAOC all had it and we didn't have 1/10th of the PC horsepower we have now.
It's simply down to laziness IMHO.
Yeah, I remember the first time I saw it started to rain in a MMO, it was an awesome feeling...
I also miss the pitch black nights those games had.
PRE-CU Dath at night during a storm was really spooky. You could hear the Rancors and Nightsisters but you couldn't always see them through the rain and blackness.
I'd love to see another MMO with that level of immersion, it really sucks you in
Precu SWG Dath was scary. I still remember those aweful spiders scuttling toward me from the darkness. Then there was the time I talked my friend into helping me find a baby rancor. Traipsing through the dark woods....eeeek
Any old MMO player have their favorite zones that turned from a happy place in the day to something scary and sinister looking at night. It was awesome. It allows you to set 2 moods instead of one.
If games could do it 15 years ago with minimal lag so can modern games on new computers.
Daycycles is a simple thing that makes the game a lot more alive..
I suspect this was removed because of complaints. Becareful for what you wish for or complain about.
I don´t think so, I never really heard anyone at all complain about it.
I think they just thought it was extra work, and since leveling is so fast nowadays people just spend a short time in any zone anyways so my guess is that they just don't bother putting more work than they have to in open zones.
My favorite drkness memories was from Lineage ( I played the western beta the few months it was up), the gods helped you there if it rained in the night, it was dark enough on a clear night. A torched helped, but it attracted mobs like moths and if you were in a pledgewar you asked to get PKed.
I would say they plugged those things into the time vs. profit calculation and found it to not be worth the time. I don't see much pride in the craftsmanship of the newer games, their seems to be a lot of reused things and admitted things that save time/money...Very limited starter areas (or story that limits it, then its not so obvious)....
Companies always want to make money, but it seems its like someone is playing money ball with mmos, and adhering to some time/profit flow chart.
I would say they plugged those things into the time vs. profit calculation and found it to not be worth the time. I don't see much pride in the craftsmanship of the newer games, their seems to be a lot of reused things and admitted things that save time/money...Very limited starter areas (or story that limits it, then its not so obvious)....
Companies always want to make money, but it seems its like someone is playing money ball with mmos, and adhering to some time/profit flow chart.
You mean like EA or Activision? Nah, they would never be so mean...
To be honestly do many games seems like they only care if the screenshots and short vids look good, not if the world feels real.
I hope it will change in the future, what fun is it to play a thief if there is no night to stalk in?
Comments
TSW have Day/night cycles and also I'm 100% sure it has at least rain as an weather condition.
also, TSW dynamic lighting allows dark places where you can only see if you use a lantern or other source of light, there is a PvP arena that is VERY dark (I think it is located in a Basement, so it is probably one of those Fight Clubs FFA PvP), and you need some source of light to clearly see the opponents (but when you turn on your lantern others can see you).
Or maybe they just want to see how imaginative their fans can be in finding sub par reasons?
Not just true.
Any old MMO player have their favorite zones that turned from a happy place in the day to something scary and sinister looking at night. It was awesome. It allows you to set 2 moods instead of one.
If games could do it 15 years ago with minimal lag so can modern games on new computers.
Daycycles is a simple thing that makes the game a lot more alive..
That is good, real good.
GW2 have Dynamic events that only starts in certain weather, like lightning elementals that spawn due to lightning strike.
Maybe things are looking up with this issue finally.
day/night cycle is still nice. and it's not like you can make it dynamic. unless you have to sacrifice enemies in the mists to get your sun to come up. weather would be fantastic though. at the very least rain and snow.
EDIT: locke, what's your source on the weather related DEs? because those sound righteous.
/QFT
That is dynamic and really adds diversity to the world.
Max profit, getting as many subs as they can so it must run on almost every pc sinds 2000 :P
Thats why its dx9.0c and special design of player and npcs models so even a lowend pc can run this game.
But even tho i agree that day/night and weather would be nice i quit after 20min becouse of the quests kill10x this collect 4x that:P Game have nothing for me so i quit a new game in 20min how sad is that.
I'd have to imagine the main answer to this question would have to be art direction. In SWTOR all of the areas are precisely laid out in a certain composition and the lighting is no exception to this. The lights are static so that they can control exactly how the area will look on first arrival and it all flows together into the one artistic vision for that vista.
Dynamic lightning definitely throws a wrench into controlling the mood, composition, and overall feel of the scene. I do not really agree with making everything static, but it is not a game breaker for me.
I really doubt it is a technical limitation, or project limitation in terms of cutting costs. It would just make most sense it was purely an artistic decision.
I not only miss weather and day/night cycles...I miss it when night MEANT SOMETHING.
WoW has night. It means everything is slightly less bright, and has a blueish tint. Yay. Some windows have lights in em. Yay.
Remember in EQ when you farmed will-o-wisps for a greater lightstone because wihtout a light source you were a dead man? I'd like that again.
It is known as cutting costs aka 'streamlining'.
Someone somewhere decided that cause day & night cycle does not add anything directly to gameplay (does not affect combat , crafting , gathering , exploring , quests ,etc ) then it is not needed. It saves quite a bit of money AND time. (to make art assets & code it).
Of course there are two things:
- first of all not everything in game have to have direct purpose - there are things like "climate" , immersion , believability ,etc - just things you cannot count or add in excel ,but many of those small things combined can make a huge diffrence
- second - of course instead of using technology that keep getting better (better textures, animations ,game engines , more past experiences that can be used ,etc ) to make things like that matter and maybe make some of them impact gameplay acttually and expand on this idea - create in-game ecology systems , seasons system , make weather impact combat , crafting or questing , heck even exploring - better to cut costs by cutting corners and 'streamline' (how I hate it)
Just effect of corporate thinking , neverending cutting costs , lack of creativity & lack of willingness to take risks
Hmm, a 4 hour loop sounds alot more dynamic than a 0 hour loop to me.
So we've established this is a non-trend. Guess the thread's over?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Nice! another +1 for me for the game. More and more GW2 is looking to be a good game.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
point being when things ae programmed to happen it's far from dynamic. (talking weather, obviously day/night has a cycle)
(night every 4 hours also seems like overkill to me, shall see how it goes)
I've got the straight edge.
I suspect this was removed because of complaints. Becareful for what you wish for or complain about.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Back when EQ2 first launched, I remember having to buy a torch because it was so dark at night. As someone else already said, in SWG (pre-CU), at night it was very dark on some worlds. I would usually activate a light, but even that only illuminated the area in direct proximity to your character. You still had to navigate through some very poorly illuminated locales.
The sound effects with EQ2's weather system were pretty spectacular. (I only mention this because some games I've played really have not managed to simulate the sound effects as well as that game did.) Once, when I was wearing headphones and it started to rain in game, I glanced outside my window to ensure it wasn't raining outside also because the sound effects were that realistic. I also recall that FFXI had a weather system that actually impacted gameplay depending on certain factors.
I'm currently still playing TOR, and while I enjoy the story, I'm really craving an environment that at least experiences some physical variations from time to time, with a day/night cycle and a wide range of weather and related sound effects. I didn't play much of Rift, admittedly, and I won't be buying TERA regardless, but as someone who got my start with SWG years ago, I suppose I feel very disconnected from game environments that experience little in the way of shifting weather patterns or even just offering a day/night transition.
To sate my craving, I've just been playing Skyrim lately. Mabinogi has a very interesting weather system, but the extremely cartoonish graphics are off-putting for me, so I don't play that game much. GW2 *sounds* promising, but I've been disappointed enough times now (I registered for TOR's forums on 10/21/2008, to show you how long I naively waited for that game with my unrealistic expectations for it) so that I'm not jumping on the hype train anymore, period.
EDIT:
I should add it's not a game breaker for me if a day/night cycle doesn't exist (PSO is still one of my favorite online RPGs of all time, and it didn't have a weather or diurnial cycle), but it's something I really do wish we had in TOR. It would be amazing to see the twin suns setting on Tatooine, or to see Alderaan at night. I was amazed at just how different Taris looked in the evening (Republic characters see Taris during the day while Imperials see it at night). When I went there with my Imperial character, I was again reminded at how much I missed having a day/night cycle.
Precu SWG Dath was scary. I still remember those aweful spiders scuttling toward me from the darkness. Then there was the time I talked my friend into helping me find a baby rancor. Traipsing through the dark woods....eeeek
I remember not leaving the cantina's because it was raining in swg and I didn't want my toon to get wet.
(a wet wookiee wasn't a pleasant thing)
ah to roleplay again....
I don´t think so, I never really heard anyone at all complain about it.
I think they just thought it was extra work, and since leveling is so fast nowadays people just spend a short time in any zone anyways so my guess is that they just don't bother putting more work than they have to in open zones.
My favorite drkness memories was from Lineage ( I played the western beta the few months it was up), the gods helped you there if it rained in the night, it was dark enough on a clear night. A torched helped, but it attracted mobs like moths and if you were in a pledgewar you asked to get PKed.
Good times.
Originally posted by Puremallace
Rift had it before GW2 :O
And many before Rift, whats your point?
I would say they plugged those things into the time vs. profit calculation and found it to not be worth the time. I don't see much pride in the craftsmanship of the newer games, their seems to be a lot of reused things and admitted things that save time/money...Very limited starter areas (or story that limits it, then its not so obvious)....
Companies always want to make money, but it seems its like someone is playing money ball with mmos, and adhering to some time/profit flow chart.
you mean like everything else in a game is programmed o.O
rifts in Rift
DEs in GW2
rifts in Tera
rift also had DEs 1st but gw2 will have what seems to b much better ones
probably the same with the day/night cycle
granted rift is over a year old now so gw2 has an advantage there
I am pretty sure that was sarcasm...
You mean like EA or Activision? Nah, they would never be so mean...
To be honestly do many games seems like they only care if the screenshots and short vids look good, not if the world feels real.
I hope it will change in the future, what fun is it to play a thief if there is no night to stalk in?