I think they both look fantastic, although obviously very different. PoE pulls off the realistic style wonderfully - I actually couldn't believe how good the models and animations were, for an indie developer. Whilst D3 pulls of the stylized painted style wonderfully.
Think they both play fantastic, too. D3's action feels more visceral and violent; PoE's feels more considered in pace - more like D2. Both great fun, though.
PoE is a thinking man's game. D3 is a hand-holding regression of the genre.
Completely and utterly false. I once thought the exact same thing until I actually took a good, long look at the game and did some research. D3 is certainly NOT a regression of the genre, if anything it's progression which does away with archaic and outdated game mechanics. Take off the nostalgia goggles and look objectively.
PoE is also quite good though, and worth checking out for any fan of the genre.
I plan on playing Torchlight 2, PoE, and D3 for a good, long time. Although D3 will probably keep my attention the longest of the 3.
I think I see where Zooce is coming from though. The skill/talent tree in PoE requires a lot more thought and planning and is a huge change in the number of different possibilities for most of the games within the genre. D3 makes the whole process considerably easier, or as some would say, "hand-holding". I like the simplicity of D3's skill choices, but I'm sure there's plenty that don't especially since D2 just felt like there was more to discuss and different builds to evaluate. Not sure how true that comparison is in the long run because I know there is still a million combinations, but I can see where that impression is coming from.
D3 is still my favorite. I'm enjoying PoE a lot though, and can't play D3 right now anyway. They're both great games..
I think the PoE team needs to be focused on the PvP side of the game since Blizz has outright said open world PvP will NOT exist in D3. PoE can be the eSport part of the ARPG side of the coin. It will futher the cause much more by being different than trying to copy.
The execption here is that PoE needs to be secure from hack and dupes.
The best of both worlds can be achieved if they pull it off before Blizz can implement any kind of PvP.
Originally posted by Zooce
played poe for three months, d3 for one weeked:
PoE is a thinking man's game. D3 is a hand-holding regression of the genre.
D3 strengths are the simplicity of it and yet the complexity buried that you won't see until late game. It was discussed may months back in a thread related to how simple chess is and yet complex it is. Keep it simple as possible and no less.
PoE is a thinking man's game. D3 is a hand-holding regression of the genre.
Completely and utterly false. I once thought the exact same thing until I actually took a good, long look at the game and did some research. D3 is certainly NOT a regression of the genre, if anything it's progression which does away with archaic and outdated game mechanics. Take off the nostalgia goggles and look objectively.
PoE is also quite good though, and worth checking out for any fan of the genre.
I plan on playing Torchlight 2, PoE, and D3 for a good, long time. Although D3 will probably keep my attention the longest of the 3.
I think I see where Zooce is coming from though. The skill/talent tree in PoE requires a lot more thought and planning and is a huge change in the number of different possibilities for most of the games within the genre. D3 makes the whole process considerably easier, or as some would say, "hand-holding". I like the simplicity of D3's skill choices, but I'm sure there's plenty that don't especially since D2 just felt like there was more to discuss and different builds to evaluate. Not sure how true that comparison is in the long run because I know there is still a million combinations, but I can see where that impression is coming from.
D3 is still my favorite. I'm enjoying PoE a lot though, and can't play D3 right now anyway. They're both great games..
just because i'm tired of fighting or proving otherwise on statements like these. PoE is no more difficult or thought provoking than D3s current skill set. Hopefully you can atleast agree to disagree with this
No, I actually fully agree with you. I was only commenting about the initial impressions for some people that I feel are understandable 'first impressions'. Having looked in to both quite a bit, I know they are both on equal ground here but the manner in which they branch out during progression is unique and both work well imo.
Essentially I'm just saying both are unique, but fun and comparable in many ways. If you're saying that they are both blatant copies of each other, then yeah - I'll agree to disagree.
As a beta tester for both games, I'd say that besides them belonging to the same genre, the games really have very little in common. Graphically, they are two very different games. Diablo 3 goes for a more animated, cartoony look (which I love) and PoE goes for a bit more realism. The games don't feel similar at all. That's just my take on it though.
No, I actually fully agree with you. I was only commenting about the initial impressions for some people that I feel are understandable 'first impressions'. Having looked in to both quite a bit, I know they are both on equal ground here but the manner in which they branch out during progression is unique and both work well imo.
You're so in the middle of the road its hard to understand ya 100%. Though i werent you at one point against D3..? you crazy people.
lol yeah, I know. I'm middle of the road in a lot of areas. Election days are a real bitch for me. I was never against D3. It's been my favorite ARPG since playing it a week ago in the open beta, but I've also been playing TQ, PoE, and saw my first videos of Lineage Eternal, all of which are great games from what I've seen. I like all of them. I'm not against any of them. So compared to other people that are arguing one over the other, I'm seeing all of them with both positives and negatives to their design. I just shift in to focusing on the positives when I'm playing so I enjoy them. I think it's more myself to blame if I am going to focus on the negative then complain about not having fun. In the same sense, if I'm not having fun, I should switch to do something that is whether that be another perspective, another game, or something else entirely.
I dont get how hanging bodies, corpses that break in half and chase you, blood and entrails are not 'dark and gritty' ?
WoW-ish graphics, defeats the purpose. There is nothing dark about WoWablo.
I wish that WoW looked like Diablo 3. I would probably play it then, I really like the aesthetic Diablo 3 goes for. I haven't played PoE yet, neither payed much attention to it. I did read that you couldn't reset your passive skills. Unless you can unlock everything, I don't like that.
What I don't understand is why people can't just play both games? PoE is going to be free to play, so unless money is the problem, you can just buy Diablo 3, download PoE and play them both.
I dont get how hanging bodies, corpses that break in half and chase you, blood and entrails are not 'dark and gritty' ?
WoW-ish graphics, defeats the purpose. There is nothing dark about WoWablo.
I wish that WoW looked like Diablo 3. I would probably play it then, I really like the aesthetic Diablo 3 goes for. I haven't played PoE yet, neither payed much attention to it. I did read that you couldn't reset your passive skills. Unless you can unlock everything, I don't like that.
What I don't understand is why people can't just play both games? PoE is going to be free to play, so unless money is the problem, you can just buy Diablo 3, download PoE and play them both.
You can reset your skills with an item that either drops from mobs or you buy it from one of the stores in the quest hubs..
I did enjoy D3 and i may pick it up but mainly because a few mates will be getting it.. but i still stick by my opinion that POE is a better game and its free.. Graphics wise technicall POE is way ahead, but i guess if you liek cartoon style games then sure go for D3
I dont get how hanging bodies, corpses that break in half and chase you, blood and entrails are not 'dark and gritty' ?
WoW-ish graphics, defeats the purpose. There is nothing dark about WoWablo.
I wish that WoW looked like Diablo 3. I would probably play it then, I really like the aesthetic Diablo 3 goes for. I haven't played PoE yet, neither payed much attention to it. I did read that you couldn't reset your passive skills. Unless you can unlock everything, I don't like that.
What I don't understand is why people can't just play both games? PoE is going to be free to play, so unless money is the problem, you can just buy Diablo 3, download PoE and play them both.
You can reset your skills with an item that either drops from mobs or you buy it from one of the stores in the quest hubs..
I did enjoy D3 and i may pick it up but mainly because a few mates will be getting it.. but i still stick by my opinion that POE is a better game and its free.. Graphics wise technicall POE is way ahead, but i guess if you liek cartoon style games then sure go for D3
If you can reset the skills, nice. Then I rather use the Diablo 3 system, also gives me access to every skill, without the hassle of reseting them Just something I prefer.
I can't judge that PoE is "way ahead" graphically wise. Looking at the system requirements I doubt it though. Aesthetic wise PoE is appealing less to me. For example, from the video's I've seen, you can only see about two feet around yourself in dungeons. The overhead map is the same as in Diablo 2, obstructing your view. All in all, PoE reminds me much of Diablo 2, while Diablo 3 feels like a new entry in the Diablo series, improving on what was good and removing/changing what was old/redundant/useless.
I dont get how hanging bodies, corpses that break in half and chase you, blood and entrails are not 'dark and gritty' ?
WoW-ish graphics, defeats the purpose. There is nothing dark about WoWablo.
I wish that WoW looked like Diablo 3. I would probably play it then, I really like the aesthetic Diablo 3 goes for. I haven't played PoE yet, neither payed much attention to it. I did read that you couldn't reset your passive skills. Unless you can unlock everything, I don't like that.
What I don't understand is why people can't just play both games? PoE is going to be free to play, so unless money is the problem, you can just buy Diablo 3, download PoE and play them both.
You can reset your skills with an item that either drops from mobs or you buy it from one of the stores in the quest hubs..
I did enjoy D3 and i may pick it up but mainly because a few mates will be getting it.. but i still stick by my opinion that POE is a better game and its free.. Graphics wise technicall POE is way ahead, but i guess if you liek cartoon style games then sure go for D3
If you can reset the skills, nice. Then I rather use the Diablo 3 system, also gives me access to every skill, without the hassle of reseting them Just something I prefer.
I can't judge that PoE is "way ahead" graphically wise. Looking at the system requirements I doubt it though. Aesthetic wise PoE is appealing less to me. For example, from the video's I've seen, you can only see about two feet around yourself in dungeons. The overhead map is the same as in Diablo 2, obstructing your view. All in all, PoE reminds me much of Diablo 2, while Diablo 3 feels like a new entry in the Diablo series, improving on what was good and removing/changing what was old/redundant/useless.
Not being able to see more than two feet around yourself is intended. Its done like that to make it feel more exiting and dangerous. And to make it more difficult to find whatever you are looking for. IMO, it makes the game much better.
Removing that is a way to dumb it down. To make it more mainstream.
Not being able to see more than two feet around yourself is intended. Its done like that to make it feel more exiting and dangerous. And to make it more difficult to find whatever you are looking for. IMO, it makes the game much better.
Removing that is a way to dumb it down. To make it more mainstream.
I know that is intended that way. If anything, in the world of action rpg's/dungeon crawlers, not able the see anything *is* mainstream. Diablo 3 is moving away from this and it's getting bashed for it by the *hardcore* Diablo 2 vets.
Making areas visible is by no way "dumbing it down". You can make a game difficult in other ways and personally, I rather have that developers do that, then done the brightness down :P
To me, Diablo 3 feels alive, while the dungeons in PoE feels static, small and *not alive*, because you can only see two feet around yourself. The focus is on what closeby, not the whole area you are walking in. Judging from video's and screenshot here though.
I dont get how hanging bodies, corpses that break in half and chase you, blood and entrails are not 'dark and gritty' ?
WoW-ish graphics, defeats the purpose. There is nothing dark about WoWablo.
I wish that WoW looked like Diablo 3. I would probably play it then, I really like the aesthetic Diablo 3 goes for. I haven't played PoE yet, neither payed much attention to it. I did read that you couldn't reset your passive skills. Unless you can unlock everything, I don't like that.
What I don't understand is why people can't just play both games? PoE is going to be free to play, so unless money is the problem, you can just buy Diablo 3, download PoE and play them both.
You can reset your skills with an item that either drops from mobs or you buy it from one of the stores in the quest hubs..
I did enjoy D3 and i may pick it up but mainly because a few mates will be getting it.. but i still stick by my opinion that POE is a better game and its free.. Graphics wise technicall POE is way ahead, but i guess if you liek cartoon style games then sure go for D3
If you can reset the skills, nice. Then I rather use the Diablo 3 system, also gives me access to every skill, without the hassle of reseting them Just something I prefer.
I can't judge that PoE is "way ahead" graphically wise. Looking at the system requirements I doubt it though. Aesthetic wise PoE is appealing less to me. For example, from the video's I've seen, you can only see about two feet around yourself in dungeons. The overhead map is the same as in Diablo 2, obstructing your view. All in all, PoE reminds me much of Diablo 2, while Diablo 3 feels like a new entry in the Diablo series, improving on what was good and removing/changing what was old/redundant/useless.
I like my RPGs to have a bit of depth.. having every skill and just swapping them out when i want without having to pay for a reskill or pay for it in some other ways takes part of the fun away for me.. but again we all like different things
POE texture wise is so much better than D3 its hard to see in the videos as the videos out there are not really high enough resolution.. Check the belwo video out on 720p you can make out all the bump/normal maps in the textures in the game and it looks awesome
You jsut dont have that lvl of detail in textures in the D3 world but thats the style they have gone for I guess, maybe the 3 engine could have done they same thing but they choose not to.
It is a D2 clone. How can you even compare it to Diablo III. If something, you can compare it to Diablo II and D2 would still come as a winner imo. I do not find anything dark and creepy about PoE really. I was in a jungle constantly under attack of monkeys...but when I come to think of it dark and scary monkeys (/sarcasm).
I played both closed betas and I really do not understand where all the love towards clones is coming from these days. PoE is a well done clone, but that is where it starts and ends.
This. PoE doesn't expand on any of DII's mechanics, leaving DII vastly superior in many ways. DII actually has a more varied skill system because it doesn't lock you into stuff due to itemization (whereas in PoE you're limited to how many skills you can stick in your armor (which is very awkward if you're misusing armor or want different skills from your 'class'), and how well certain skills are linked (because everything else is too weak). It honestly strikes me as a rather terrible system. You're especially stuck with very boring gameplay without good socket drops. Wtf. I saw where that was going and ran the fuck away.
Originally posted by Irus This. PoE doesn't expand on any of DII's mechanics, leaving DII vastly superior in many ways. DII actually has a more varied skill system because it doesn't lock you into stuff due to itemization (whereas in PoE you're limited to how many skills you can stick in your armor, and how well certain skills are linked (because everything else is too weak).
I don't think that's entirely accurate. PoE does give you flexibility with your active skills via swapping gems - when I played D2 there was absolutely zero flexibility, if you wanted any change, time to roll a new level 1 character (I gather they later added a very limited number of respecs). So being able to expand your portfolio of skills by finding or trading for gems, and then levelling them up, strikes me as an expansion on D2's mechanics.
I didn't find any support gems in my time in the PoE beta, but it sounded like they were intended to provide a layer of customization above and beyond D2 as well - much like D3's runing of skills.
Frankly, D2's skill tree was about as simplistic as it gets. And when they added the synergy system it compressed things even more dramatically, by forcing you to spend 40 or 60 of your limited points to max out a skill, rather than just 20. Both PoE and D3 are well beyond it, imho.
I'm not quite sure many of you at all have tried PoE. There are so many really great arguments for the differences that have not even been touched on. It's actually quite confusing.
PoE's mana and health potion system is light years ahead. D3 went the easy route and tried to get rid of them, or lessen the need. The guys at grinding gear games actually tackled the beast and won. The potions are more like items with charges. You can chug them until it runs out of charges. You gain charges back by killing enemies. It is a persistent item that can also be magical, and in the future, rare, unique, and legendary to put it in terms that we all know. These items actually become important and more than just an afterthought or a reason for a town run.
Their skills aren't given to you. Basically, PoE has twisted the Diablo 2/3 systems with gems. Instead of gaining skills based on leveling up, you gain skills through socketting skill gems into your weapons and armor. There are three different colors of skill gems. You can use any type of skill gem, as the progression system is like sandbox progression. Your class is just a shell, you are responsible for what is inside. There are also support gems that link to your skill gems, making them more powerful. Your gems level up with you as well.
PoE has a system that allows for true player crafted items. No diablo game has this. No, D3's crafting system is limited only to what recipes the devs give you.
The graphics are simply better in quality. You can like D3's style better if you prefer. But, you can't actually argue that the engine for PoE isn't technically more advanced than the engine in D3. If you tried, you would be completely and utterly wrong. The shadows, lighting, and textures are all better. I actually felt nervous going into some areas in the PoE beta. I never felt that in D3. I felt like I was in an amusement park. There was no challenge.
Obviously D3 has a bit more polish. PoE doesn't have transparency. Key bindings do not work with mouse buttons, only qwert keys. So I can't use G keys, arrows, number pad or side mouse buttons. The map overlay is one of the things that I didn't like about D2, and PoE hasn't done anything to improve it. I feel like it gets in the way sometimes, taking away from some of the really amazing environments. Almost blocking them out at times. Sure, you can turn the transparency on for the map, but then you need to find that balance, where you can still see it without making it hard for you to see what you are doing. All of this most likely going to be fixed before launch, at least I'd hope. They really shouldn't be hard to fix anyway.
There really isn't any voice acting in PoE. I think D3 really has PoE by the balls in this department. Dialogue boxes are all well and good, but there is an advantage to having some vocals within the game. I like how D3 allows you to continue on your way as you read books and listen to lore and such.
The biggest thing is the lack of story. Though, to make it fair, we already kind of know the story in Diablo. In PoE, we don't really know what is going on. All we know is that we are slaves that have been dumped on an island to fend for ourselves. We have only been able to go through the first two chapters, so a lot of the story hasn't been revealed yet. Now, at launch, if we find out that there still isn't a story after we beat the game.. then I can agree with people saying that it has no soul. It may yet have one, we just haven't seen it yet. We've had two previous titles to draw from with Diablo.
I think both titles have their strengths and weaknesses. Both are good. I will probably play both.
Originally posted by Aori Ok first off, you're going to have to explain to me what true player crafted items are.. as diablo 3's crafting system is better in terms of gear gambling than any other.. it unlike most games is not useless.
I wondered this too. Whatever crafting there is in PoE, I certainly never encountered it in my progression through the beta. And quickly searching the forums just now, all I found was a few people saying "hey it would be nice if they added crafting to this game" - and a lot of replies saying "GTFO and play WoW if you want crafting, noob".
Both games have awesome graphics.. you cannot deny that.
PoE graphics are in my opinion more realistic than Diablos. Diablo graphics are better in terms of dynamics ( clothes animations etc etc ) and dont seem as static as PoE's.
Still.. both have awesome textures and art, even if poiting in diferent directions.
I like PoE's passive skill tree a lot, and the gem/active skill system is fun aswel..
Both games have awesome graphics.. you cannot deny that.
PoE graphics are in my opinion more realistic than Diablos. Diablo graphics are better in terms of dynamics ( clothes animations etc etc ) and dont seem as static as PoE's.
Still.. both have awesome textures and art, even if poiting in diferent directions.
I like PoE's passive skill tree a lot, and the gem/active skill system is fun aswel..
People confuse graphics with aesthetics. I don´t care a lot for state-of-the-art graphics. I have an old PC, so I'm already glad if I can run the game decently. What sets Diablo 3 apart from PoE, at least for me, is that Diablo 3 feels alive. So much is happening in the background, little beast running, birds flying, etc. It feels like a living world, being corrupted by whatever evils happen to assault the world in this game (forgive my dramatics). PoE seems more like Diablo 2 from what I've seen. You, the champion vs the enemies. Aside from the tides of the sea (a nice touch), I didn't notice much more. I've to judge from video's though.
Aside from the aesthetics, the progression of skills seems to be a sore point for most. I rather have the way Diablo 3 handles the skill progression, just because I can beat the game, right from the start, in the way I want. Without worrying if my skill/point placement is correct or if I'm going to regret it in about 30 levels. My memories of Diablo 2 is using two spells for most of the game and hitting the mage/mana armor button when needed. Diablo 1 was worse (I was a rogue there). In Diablo 3, after 30 minutes of playing, I was already using more skills then in the last few games combined. It felt good.
I still don't see the problem with playing both games though. I already bought Diablo 3 and PoE is going to be free-to-play, so there is no problem with playing them both when they are released.
PoE has a system that allows for true player crafted items. No diablo game has this. No, D3's crafting system is limited only to what recipes the devs give you.
The graphics are simply better in quality. You can like D3's style better if you prefer. But, you can't actually argue that the engine for PoE isn't technically more advanced than the engine in D3. If you tried, you would be completely and utterly wrong. The shadows, lighting, and textures are all better. I actually felt nervous going into some areas in the PoE beta. I never felt that in D3. I felt like I was in an amusement park. There was no challenge.
I think both titles have their strengths and weaknesses. Both are good. I will probably play both.
Ok first off, you're going to have to explain to me what true player crafted items are.. as diablo 3's crafting system is better in terms of gear gambling than any other.. it unlike most games is not useless.
To say D3's engine is inferior to PoE is one of the most ridiculous statements i've seen someone make. The shadows, lighting and textures are far worse in PoE, what game did you play? I've played PoE beta.. I felt like i was playing a watered down NWN. I think you're blinded by the fact you liked the art style in PoE vs D3. Another thing is, D3 has physics.. something PoE will never have and the physics add alot to this style of game.
The only game i've ever felt nervous playing was Lineage 2. You've gotta be some kind of lightweight to be nervous playing PoE or any ARPG for that matter.
As for the whole it feels like an amusement park, well thats better than a county fair.
I'd have to ask you the same thing, what game did you play?
In PoE you can literally strip an item bare of it's properties, add properties or change properties, add or change sockets and change the rarity of said items. Can you do that in D3? No, you can only make what the developers have designed for you. PoE's system is quite obviously much more useful to the individual player, as they can tailor their items exactly the way that they like. You can also improve item quality as well, both weapons and armor.
No, I'm not blinded by style. I clearly stated that style aside, technically, PoE's engine is superior. This you can't argue, as polygon counts in the characters, terrain, mobs, shadows, and lighting are all better than D3's. This is all fact. I won't discuss this with you, because it is clealy not me who is blind in this. The only thing D3 has on PoE from a graphic technology standpoint is physics. It's a shame too, I rather enjoyed them in Titan Quest.
I don't get the NWN comment at all. It makes no sense.
I do not understand the county fair comment, it makes no sense.
I've played nearly every single ARPG that there is, PoE's dungeon environments take me back to D1. Something no ARPG game has been able to do. Some of the sounds in certain areas are spine chilling when matched with the environments.
It's easy to say things. It's a lot more difficult to make sense in a way that people can understand what you're trying to say. You really should work on that, because if you have to explain your joke, it probably wasn't funny in the first place.
No matter how much you push it, it will not become true...PoE simply is not better than D3 in terms of graphics or gameplay.
It is a D2 clone. How can you even compare it to Diablo III. If something, you can compare it to Diablo II and D2 would still come as a winner imo. I do not find anything dark and creepy about PoE really. I was in a jungle constantly under attack of monkeys...but when I come to think of it dark and scary monkeys (/sarcasm).
I played both closed betas and I really do not understand where all the love towards clones is coming from these days. PoE is a well done clone, but that is where it starts and ends.
I think all the hate is caused by the fact that the release approaches...haters get all upset and their activity increases.
It probably has more to do with people simply liking other games. Why am I not surprised about 'clone' talk? It seems like it has become the end-all insult in video games. Yes PoE is better in terms of graphics, a blind monkey could see that. It is fact, it can not be argued. Some people only see what they want to see. They can't possibly imagine anything comparing to their beloved.
Go back into the Wardens Quarters. Since you're in the jungle, you have beaten him. You didn't find the sound of that area a bit spooky? Go back and actually listen to it. Look at the bodies and blood. Actually look at the environment that the developers have designed for you. Now compare that to ANY D3 area that you have seen thus far. They don't even compare. How about the caves with the watery floors and the lighting and textures of said water. Then look at any cave in D3 and compare. There is no comparison at all. The lightning effects in PoE? Oh, can't compare those to anything in D3. Weather? Hah. You can like a certain style all you want, but you're lterally arguing that a ford escort is better than a ford mustang. Well, maybe an escort isn't accurate, a Fusion perhaps. Both may be good, but one is most certainly better in terms of asthetics. The only, and I mean only thing that D3 has on PoE graphically is physics.
I mean, I'm obviously being difficult with this statement. If you're going to call PoE a clone, then you have to call Diable a clone. There were other ARPG style video games that came before it. Like Zelda or Crusader. So, in an attempt to be clever, you are actually insulting Diablo by saying it is a clone. Nice job!
PoE is a thinking man's game. D3 is a hand-holding regression of the genre.
And by thinking mans game you mean the ability to google for builds for that unholy bloated mess of a skill system. Complexity for the sake of complexity is not depth, and is just soulless.
I just finished playing POE in the closed beta. I like the idea of it being free, but it is actually quite good.
I can see the comparisons with the UI being D2 like. How ever I think it ends around there. Also when you think about it there really isn't that much a person can do for this type of game.
There are a couple games on my list.
1. Torch Light 2: playing the first one over again before D3 comes out. I am a fan of the Bezerker and Engineer. I also like the fan created armor sets that will be in game. All in all a very talented group of people.
2. Diablo 3: really curious about the witch doctor and the barbarian. Not really interested in the other classes however. But yes my main will definitely be witch doctor. A friend is playing the mage I think. I'm hoping to get a core group of people together for this one. Also I'll probably play TL2 over this simply because I just like the art style and general lore of Torchlight.
3. Path of Exile: I can see this being really good as well. Just something about the gritty ness of it all. I can see Diablo in it from a dark, gritty art style. That is not bad at all because it seems to stand on its own from what I've been playing. Will bounce back from this and Torch light 1, until D3 comes out. Still will definitely keep this regularly played.
4. Grim Dawn: This game is currently in development from the guys that made Titan Quest. Check out their website if you haven't heard of it and watch the videos to get a feel for the classes. They seem to be a bit more agressive and robust with the same system as TQ in the dual class-ish way.
This won't be out for probably another year or so but just keep it on your radar because likely D3, TL2, and POE will all be well played by that time.
I am honestly going to play them all as well as Guild wars 2 and maybe some rift on the side. Just about time allocation really and since I'm not rushing to be uber I have all the time in the world.
Comments
I think they both look fantastic, although obviously very different. PoE pulls off the realistic style wonderfully - I actually couldn't believe how good the models and animations were, for an indie developer. Whilst D3 pulls of the stylized painted style wonderfully.
Think they both play fantastic, too. D3's action feels more visceral and violent; PoE's feels more considered in pace - more like D2. Both great fun, though.
I think I see where Zooce is coming from though. The skill/talent tree in PoE requires a lot more thought and planning and is a huge change in the number of different possibilities for most of the games within the genre. D3 makes the whole process considerably easier, or as some would say, "hand-holding". I like the simplicity of D3's skill choices, but I'm sure there's plenty that don't especially since D2 just felt like there was more to discuss and different builds to evaluate. Not sure how true that comparison is in the long run because I know there is still a million combinations, but I can see where that impression is coming from.
D3 is still my favorite. I'm enjoying PoE a lot though, and can't play D3 right now anyway. They're both great games..
Here is my thoughts on this.
I think the PoE team needs to be focused on the PvP side of the game since Blizz has outright said open world PvP will NOT exist in D3. PoE can be the eSport part of the ARPG side of the coin. It will futher the cause much more by being different than trying to copy.
The execption here is that PoE needs to be secure from hack and dupes.
The best of both worlds can be achieved if they pull it off before Blizz can implement any kind of PvP.
D3 strengths are the simplicity of it and yet the complexity buried that you won't see until late game. It was discussed may months back in a thread related to how simple chess is and yet complex it is. Keep it simple as possible and no less.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
No, I actually fully agree with you. I was only commenting about the initial impressions for some people that I feel are understandable 'first impressions'. Having looked in to both quite a bit, I know they are both on equal ground here but the manner in which they branch out during progression is unique and both work well imo.
Essentially I'm just saying both are unique, but fun and comparable in many ways. If you're saying that they are both blatant copies of each other, then yeah - I'll agree to disagree.
lol yeah, I know. I'm middle of the road in a lot of areas. Election days are a real bitch for me. I was never against D3. It's been my favorite ARPG since playing it a week ago in the open beta, but I've also been playing TQ, PoE, and saw my first videos of Lineage Eternal, all of which are great games from what I've seen. I like all of them. I'm not against any of them. So compared to other people that are arguing one over the other, I'm seeing all of them with both positives and negatives to their design. I just shift in to focusing on the positives when I'm playing so I enjoy them. I think it's more myself to blame if I am going to focus on the negative then complain about not having fun. In the same sense, if I'm not having fun, I should switch to do something that is whether that be another perspective, another game, or something else entirely.
Unnecessary negativity removed.
thats called softcore nowadays hehe
I wish that WoW looked like Diablo 3. I would probably play it then, I really like the aesthetic Diablo 3 goes for. I haven't played PoE yet, neither payed much attention to it. I did read that you couldn't reset your passive skills. Unless you can unlock everything, I don't like that.
What I don't understand is why people can't just play both games? PoE is going to be free to play, so unless money is the problem, you can just buy Diablo 3, download PoE and play them both.
You can reset your skills with an item that either drops from mobs or you buy it from one of the stores in the quest hubs..
I did enjoy D3 and i may pick it up but mainly because a few mates will be getting it.. but i still stick by my opinion that POE is a better game and its free.. Graphics wise technicall POE is way ahead, but i guess if you liek cartoon style games then sure go for D3
If you can reset the skills, nice. Then I rather use the Diablo 3 system, also gives me access to every skill, without the hassle of reseting them
Just something I prefer.
I can't judge that PoE is "way ahead" graphically wise. Looking at the system requirements I doubt it though. Aesthetic wise PoE is appealing less to me. For example, from the video's I've seen, you can only see about two feet around yourself in dungeons. The overhead map is the same as in Diablo 2, obstructing your view. All in all, PoE reminds me much of Diablo 2, while Diablo 3 feels like a new entry in the Diablo series, improving on what was good and removing/changing what was old/redundant/useless.
Not being able to see more than two feet around yourself is intended. Its done like that to make it feel more exiting and dangerous. And to make it more difficult to find whatever you are looking for. IMO, it makes the game much better.
Removing that is a way to dumb it down. To make it more mainstream.
I know that is intended that way. If anything, in the world of action rpg's/dungeon crawlers, not able the see anything *is* mainstream. Diablo 3 is moving away from this and it's getting bashed for it by the *hardcore* Diablo 2 vets.
Making areas visible is by no way "dumbing it down". You can make a game difficult in other ways and personally, I rather have that developers do that, then done the brightness down :P
To me, Diablo 3 feels alive, while the dungeons in PoE feels static, small and *not alive*, because you can only see two feet around yourself. The focus is on what closeby, not the whole area you are walking in. Judging from video's and screenshot here though.
I like my RPGs to have a bit of depth.. having every skill and just swapping them out when i want without having to pay for a reskill or pay for it in some other ways takes part of the fun away for me.. but again we all like different things
POE texture wise is so much better than D3 its hard to see in the videos as the videos out there are not really high enough resolution.. Check the belwo video out on 720p you can make out all the bump/normal maps in the textures in the game and it looks awesome
http://www.pathofexile.com/video/templar-trailer/play
You jsut dont have that lvl of detail in textures in the D3 world but thats the style they have gone for I guess, maybe the 3 engine could have done they same thing but they choose not to.
This. PoE doesn't expand on any of DII's mechanics, leaving DII vastly superior in many ways. DII actually has a more varied skill system because it doesn't lock you into stuff due to itemization (whereas in PoE you're limited to how many skills you can stick in your armor (which is very awkward if you're misusing armor or want different skills from your 'class'), and how well certain skills are linked (because everything else is too weak). It honestly strikes me as a rather terrible system. You're especially stuck with very boring gameplay without good socket drops. Wtf. I saw where that was going and ran the fuck away.
I didn't find any support gems in my time in the PoE beta, but it sounded like they were intended to provide a layer of customization above and beyond D2 as well - much like D3's runing of skills.
Frankly, D2's skill tree was about as simplistic as it gets. And when they added the synergy system it compressed things even more dramatically, by forcing you to spend 40 or 60 of your limited points to max out a skill, rather than just 20. Both PoE and D3 are well beyond it, imho.
This thread is a true 'headscratcher'.
I'm not quite sure many of you at all have tried PoE. There are so many really great arguments for the differences that have not even been touched on. It's actually quite confusing.
PoE's mana and health potion system is light years ahead. D3 went the easy route and tried to get rid of them, or lessen the need. The guys at grinding gear games actually tackled the beast and won. The potions are more like items with charges. You can chug them until it runs out of charges. You gain charges back by killing enemies. It is a persistent item that can also be magical, and in the future, rare, unique, and legendary to put it in terms that we all know. These items actually become important and more than just an afterthought or a reason for a town run.
Their skills aren't given to you. Basically, PoE has twisted the Diablo 2/3 systems with gems. Instead of gaining skills based on leveling up, you gain skills through socketting skill gems into your weapons and armor. There are three different colors of skill gems. You can use any type of skill gem, as the progression system is like sandbox progression. Your class is just a shell, you are responsible for what is inside. There are also support gems that link to your skill gems, making them more powerful. Your gems level up with you as well.
PoE has a system that allows for true player crafted items. No diablo game has this. No, D3's crafting system is limited only to what recipes the devs give you.
The graphics are simply better in quality. You can like D3's style better if you prefer. But, you can't actually argue that the engine for PoE isn't technically more advanced than the engine in D3. If you tried, you would be completely and utterly wrong. The shadows, lighting, and textures are all better. I actually felt nervous going into some areas in the PoE beta. I never felt that in D3. I felt like I was in an amusement park. There was no challenge.
Obviously D3 has a bit more polish. PoE doesn't have transparency. Key bindings do not work with mouse buttons, only qwert keys. So I can't use G keys, arrows, number pad or side mouse buttons. The map overlay is one of the things that I didn't like about D2, and PoE hasn't done anything to improve it. I feel like it gets in the way sometimes, taking away from some of the really amazing environments. Almost blocking them out at times. Sure, you can turn the transparency on for the map, but then you need to find that balance, where you can still see it without making it hard for you to see what you are doing. All of this most likely going to be fixed before launch, at least I'd hope. They really shouldn't be hard to fix anyway.
There really isn't any voice acting in PoE. I think D3 really has PoE by the balls in this department. Dialogue boxes are all well and good, but there is an advantage to having some vocals within the game. I like how D3 allows you to continue on your way as you read books and listen to lore and such.
The biggest thing is the lack of story. Though, to make it fair, we already kind of know the story in Diablo. In PoE, we don't really know what is going on. All we know is that we are slaves that have been dumped on an island to fend for ourselves. We have only been able to go through the first two chapters, so a lot of the story hasn't been revealed yet. Now, at launch, if we find out that there still isn't a story after we beat the game.. then I can agree with people saying that it has no soul. It may yet have one, we just haven't seen it yet. We've had two previous titles to draw from with Diablo.
I think both titles have their strengths and weaknesses. Both are good. I will probably play both.
Both games have awesome graphics.. you cannot deny that.
PoE graphics are in my opinion more realistic than Diablos. Diablo graphics are better in terms of dynamics ( clothes animations etc etc ) and dont seem as static as PoE's.
Still.. both have awesome textures and art, even if poiting in diferent directions.
I like PoE's passive skill tree a lot, and the gem/active skill system is fun aswel..
People confuse graphics with aesthetics. I don´t care a lot for state-of-the-art graphics. I have an old PC, so I'm already glad if I can run the game decently. What sets Diablo 3 apart from PoE, at least for me, is that Diablo 3 feels alive. So much is happening in the background, little beast running, birds flying, etc. It feels like a living world, being corrupted by whatever evils happen to assault the world in this game (forgive my dramatics). PoE seems more like Diablo 2 from what I've seen. You, the champion vs the enemies. Aside from the tides of the sea (a nice touch), I didn't notice much more. I've to judge from video's though.
Aside from the aesthetics, the progression of skills seems to be a sore point for most. I rather have the way Diablo 3 handles the skill progression, just because I can beat the game, right from the start, in the way I want. Without worrying if my skill/point placement is correct or if I'm going to regret it in about 30 levels. My memories of Diablo 2 is using two spells for most of the game and hitting the mage/mana armor button when needed. Diablo 1 was worse (I was a rogue there). In Diablo 3, after 30 minutes of playing, I was already using more skills then in the last few games combined. It felt good.
I still don't see the problem with playing both games though. I already bought Diablo 3 and PoE is going to be free-to-play, so there is no problem with playing them both when they are released.
I'd have to ask you the same thing, what game did you play?
In PoE you can literally strip an item bare of it's properties, add properties or change properties, add or change sockets and change the rarity of said items. Can you do that in D3? No, you can only make what the developers have designed for you. PoE's system is quite obviously much more useful to the individual player, as they can tailor their items exactly the way that they like. You can also improve item quality as well, both weapons and armor.
No, I'm not blinded by style. I clearly stated that style aside, technically, PoE's engine is superior. This you can't argue, as polygon counts in the characters, terrain, mobs, shadows, and lighting are all better than D3's. This is all fact. I won't discuss this with you, because it is clealy not me who is blind in this. The only thing D3 has on PoE from a graphic technology standpoint is physics. It's a shame too, I rather enjoyed them in Titan Quest.
I don't get the NWN comment at all. It makes no sense.
I do not understand the county fair comment, it makes no sense.
I've played nearly every single ARPG that there is, PoE's dungeon environments take me back to D1. Something no ARPG game has been able to do. Some of the sounds in certain areas are spine chilling when matched with the environments.
It's easy to say things. It's a lot more difficult to make sense in a way that people can understand what you're trying to say. You really should work on that, because if you have to explain your joke, it probably wasn't funny in the first place.
It probably has more to do with people simply liking other games. Why am I not surprised about 'clone' talk? It seems like it has become the end-all insult in video games. Yes PoE is better in terms of graphics, a blind monkey could see that. It is fact, it can not be argued. Some people only see what they want to see. They can't possibly imagine anything comparing to their beloved.
Go back into the Wardens Quarters. Since you're in the jungle, you have beaten him. You didn't find the sound of that area a bit spooky? Go back and actually listen to it. Look at the bodies and blood. Actually look at the environment that the developers have designed for you. Now compare that to ANY D3 area that you have seen thus far. They don't even compare. How about the caves with the watery floors and the lighting and textures of said water. Then look at any cave in D3 and compare. There is no comparison at all. The lightning effects in PoE? Oh, can't compare those to anything in D3. Weather? Hah. You can like a certain style all you want, but you're lterally arguing that a ford escort is better than a ford mustang. Well, maybe an escort isn't accurate, a Fusion perhaps. Both may be good, but one is most certainly better in terms of asthetics. The only, and I mean only thing that D3 has on PoE graphically is physics.
I mean, I'm obviously being difficult with this statement. If you're going to call PoE a clone, then you have to call Diable a clone. There were other ARPG style video games that came before it. Like Zelda or Crusader. So, in an attempt to be clever, you are actually insulting Diablo by saying it is a clone. Nice job!
And by thinking mans game you mean the ability to google for builds for that unholy bloated mess of a skill system. Complexity for the sake of complexity is not depth, and is just soulless.I just finished playing POE in the closed beta. I like the idea of it being free, but it is actually quite good.
I can see the comparisons with the UI being D2 like. How ever I think it ends around there. Also when you think about it there really isn't that much a person can do for this type of game.
There are a couple games on my list.
1. Torch Light 2: playing the first one over again before D3 comes out. I am a fan of the Bezerker and Engineer. I also like the fan created armor sets that will be in game. All in all a very talented group of people.
http://www.torchlight2game.com/classes
2. Diablo 3: really curious about the witch doctor and the barbarian. Not really interested in the other classes however. But yes my main will definitely be witch doctor. A friend is playing the mage I think. I'm hoping to get a core group of people together for this one. Also I'll probably play TL2 over this simply because I just like the art style and general lore of Torchlight.
3. Path of Exile: I can see this being really good as well. Just something about the gritty ness of it all. I can see Diablo in it from a dark, gritty art style. That is not bad at all because it seems to stand on its own from what I've been playing. Will bounce back from this and Torch light 1, until D3 comes out. Still will definitely keep this regularly played.
4. Grim Dawn: This game is currently in development from the guys that made Titan Quest. Check out their website if you haven't heard of it and watch the videos to get a feel for the classes. They seem to be a bit more agressive and robust with the same system as TQ in the dual class-ish way.
http://www.grimdawn.com/media_videos.php
This won't be out for probably another year or so but just keep it on your radar because likely D3, TL2, and POE will all be well played by that time.
I am honestly going to play them all as well as Guild wars 2 and maybe some rift on the side. Just about time allocation really and since I'm not rushing to be uber I have all the time in the world.