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Blocking
NighthawkUL
Member Posts: 183
in Reclamation
One of the things I thought was pretty cool in UL was the ability to block chakram shots with other chakram blasts.
I was wondering though, what if you could knock shots away and even back at the person who fired at you (or someone else) with your blade as well as chakrams. Of course your success would depend on timing and your blade level. maybe if the blade was too weak or the chakram was really powerful it could even break the blade or bounce the shot you tried to deflect the shot back at you.
I think something like that would be very cool in reclamation.
Comments
Yeah. What NightHawk said.
-SN!PER
If reclamation uses the same hit prediction as UL then it would be pretty ugly looking from a bystanders point of view if you were able to reflect shots.
In UL basically hit detection is based off the client, this is a little different then some FPS engines that are online because they keep hit detection server side. Basically what this means is when you fire a shot, your client tells the server you fired a shot, the server tells the victim's client there's a shot incomming. Rather then letting the server keep track of the entire shot's velocity and eating up some bandwidth the server just tells the client where the shot is comming from, where it's going, how fast, its color and its damage.
From there, your client will just take care of moving the projectile without the server's intervention. If the projectile happens to strike you then the client responds with a hit, deducts out the damage flashes the screen plays the shout of pain and it then tells the server that it was hit. The server then tells everyone that so and so is screaming like a little ninny because he's been hit and the people see that.
The thing is, because of lag, everyone sees the projectile doing something slightly different.
Let's say Bob is strafing to the left. Bill has some lag between him and bob. Jill is a bystander watching and she has some lag between both. Bill fires a shot leading it to the left of bob. Now, Bob's client sees the shot comming in and it the lead is JUST perfect and it hits him. It does not strike the wall on his game.
Now, Bill's client will see Bob as where he was about a second ago, so HE will see the shot fly through the air to the left of Bob, as Bob strafes into the line of fire where the shot was, Bob will scream in pain anyway, even though from Bill and Jill's viewpoint the shot was clearly not a hit.
Now Let's say Bob fires a shot back at Bill, Bill sees the incomming shot and strafes out of the way at the last second.
Due to lag what Jill and Bob will see is the shot flying and hitting Bill directly, a split second later Bill will stafe out of the way and he doesn't scream in pain.
I'm sure if either of you played UL and been in any combat you've seen these situations.
It doesn't really matter how you do the prediction, once you factor in lag things look increasingly funky. Lyra's system, though a tad unconventional to other games is WONDERFUL for playing in higher lag without the game becoming unplayable. It's very low stress on the server.
Even if you did sever side hit prediction you get funky situations, you get hit by attacks that clearly aren't hitting you instead.
So, what does this mean for deflecting shots?
Let's suppose in the first example Bob, as he strafes into the lead shot uses his blade to deflect it. From his client he'll see the shot come up to him and get sent right back as he strikes it.
Bill and Jill will see the shot miss Bob completely, as Bob crosses the line of fire for that shot he'll swing his blade and suddenly he'll shoot a ball of fire from it. Rather then looking like he deflected something, it'll look like he is using his sword as a fireball launcher.
If it is server side prediction (Which I don't think Lyra will go with, they mentioned using the same architecture as UL) then it'd be damn near impossible to deflect that shot. You would have to guess through the lag when the shot really IS reaching you and lead your swing so it hits then, with fastest chakrams that would often mean swinging before the shot is actually fired. In fact you'd have to swing your blade rather randomly and hope you get lucky.
Either way, any amount of lag makes this dynamic very ugly very fast.
Because only someone as deranged as me would have a rubber chicken Named Alfredo Sanchez
Well if its all computed by the client then I don't see how it would be any different than the combat in Underlight. Even if you couldn't deflect the shot you should still be able to block it with your blade. Still, deflecting would be pretty cool even if it looked a little strange to someone watching (I mean, have you seen a blade duel or even a normal duel when its laggy? doesn't exactly look normal or fluid at times).
Blocking really wouldn't be to hard for them to do.
As for blade duels, part of that jerky motion is due to a "feature" involving the way movement prediction works with strafe.
If you want to see something wierd tell someone to press both strafe keys at the same time. You'll see them jerk back and forth like nobody's business as they move forward.
Basically the strafe makes the movement prediction all funky, which is what a lot of champ blade duelers try to take advantage off. They try to play this quirk to THROW their avatar at their opponent without actually getting in normal striking range. This trick gives them a little extra range.
Because only someone as deranged as me would have a rubber chicken Named Alfredo Sanchez
now I am all for blocking, but not just chaks but blade as well, I am sure I have said this before, but I think the best way to deal with this is shields we can actually use. kinda like shields in CS:CZ
I have to admit client side hit prodiction, though looks kinda funky is much better for this type of game than server side, cause unfortunatly with server side prediction you fall into the trap of highest ping wins. and for me being all the way in New Zealand would pretty much mean all you buggers would always win, as you'd all have a better ping to the server than me.
Another big advantage of the client heavy architecture is it takes a load off the server.
When you got a room full of people the server is doing less work so you don't need as much bandwidth to view the room. Not to mention that since the server is doing less work with keeping track of shots and whatnot, that it is saving CPU cycles on the server, allowing it to run faster.
The only real big disadvantage is it makes cheating that much easier. I always guessed that was part of the reason why they don't allow alt+tab in UL. Though, the community and administration of UL was generally pretty good at staying on the ball with cheats.
Because only someone as deranged as me would have a rubber chicken Named Alfredo Sanchez
Yep, only 2 people have ever cheated/hacked and I think the FBI got involved with both (I know they did the first time). Now I'm all for cheating in single player games you've already beaten but in online games its totally retarded. I still think we should be able to alt-tab out, I kind of doubt too many if any would cheat and even if they did last I heard Lyra's server is capable of telling when you're cheating and Lyra finds out pretty quickly. Even if it doesn't players will let Lyra know. I just HATE getting kicked out when something pops up on my computer or I accidentally hit an escape or tab out button combo, I also hate not being able to check my e-mail and whatnot while I'm tranced.
-Night
That's it for this dog and pony show, the escorts are tired and the animals need to be walked.