"One of the elements that makes Guild Wars 2 combat feel different from other games is that many skills have their own unique animations, and the skill functionality is often based on the animations themselves. With a robust animation-blending system, we are able to easily transition between skills. In our previous demos, this was shown through chain skills, such as the warrior sword combo in the first skill slot: Sever Artery leads to Gash, which flows into Final Thrust. We realized that this system did not need to be reserved just for chain skills but could apply to the entire game. There were skills such as Savage Leap, which moved the player into range of their target, and big control attacks like Shield Bash, that you wanted to be able to quickly follow with another skill. The problem was that the animations for these skills had follow-through that was preventing players from using another skill until the animations were finished. You could stun or chase someone, but it was hard to capitalize on it.
Our programmers added technology to our skill data to allow us to specify a point in an animation at which the player could start moving again. This made skills like Savage Leap not only more functional but tremendously fun to use. This technology came in right before gamescom, so we were able to showcase it with a few important skills in that demo. Now that the technology has evolved, not only does it allow players to specify when they can start movement but it also allows us to transition into queued skills so that we can improve responsiveness. We went through every skill in the game and set up these animation breakout timings and the results were fantastic, but we didn’t stop there. I know many people have also noticed the more polished nature of the animations in the G-Star demo. Since we were able to go back and polish it, we also took a look at the impact of the new blending changes and made some timing changes to existing skills in order to give them more-appropriate anticipation, swing time, and follow-through to match the smoother feel that we were achieving with the blending. This really shines with things like big hammer swings, which now have slow buildups, quick attacks, and somewhat lengthy follow-through, depending on the skill. Ultimately, it creates a much more visceral and immediate system, which helps us straddle the line between action game and RPG."
I'd have to agree to a certain extent w/ the OP. Some of the skills do feel a bit clunky compared to others. I wouldn't say this is an across the board problem. It really only bothered me on certain skills like leap. However, many of those skills aren't meant to be a teleport, so even if they do fix it, it's never going to a full-proof skill. As far as my issues with the game, I would list this as a 2ndary issue, tbh.
Strange when i was trying warrior today i was like wow, at last a charge that is working properly, all the games i played had bugged charge with lag and delay, charge ending nowhere near the target because of some lag delay and so on (here it won't end only if you are too far), don't know what you are talking about, it trigger very well when running and i use dodge charge combo very well and very often since it do work in combat not like most charges from other games... Maybe its a question of performance, on my comp the combat is super fluid, maybe lower your graphic, you should first aim for performance, then and only then go up in graphism. And honestly if you take pvp seriously, well Wow pvp is kind of you know, ridiculous, i mean at least use better pvp games to explain your experience in pvp, i have nothing against wow per say, but well wow is a pve game with battlegrounds. Its not renewed as a pvp game outside of the wow players, don't take it personally...
WoW pvp is ridiculous?
Well, I guess we are all entitled to have our subjective opinions, but to me, this one seems pretty odd
Ever played wow arena?
OK i didn't use proper wording, saying wow is a pvp game is ridiulous.
I re-read the OP and didn't find where he said WoW was a PVP game. He did say that he did pvp in WoW but must have glossed over where he called it a PVP game.
I felt this way when I first started playing, but by the end of the weekend I started getting used to the timings of the various combat animations.... I think it adds to realism and strategy that skills dont fire off immediately..
I'll agree that ranged have an easy time escaping and healing up.... but most of the competitive pvp is about standing on objective points.... meaning if u run away ur losing and the warrior is winning...
I had to realize that killing stuff takes some time and a lot of effort in this game.... and is not always the best solution.
Its all about the animations, modern games with complex animations have this "problem", Aion with a complete different combat system that GW2 had it also for example.
The animation issue as i see is that the responsiveness (sp?) when you click a skill is not instant, it have an animation attached and you must wait to that animation to "get" the cast, you can add that an enemy can interrup you and so on, then you end up clicking a few times the skill to use it and that give us that feel of clunky, some times they even dont land at all.
In my opinion the game will get very simple if all the skills land on click no matter what, as in EQ model ( WoW is an EQ combat system model for the OP reference ), they just need to polish it more because this system is far superior to the one which animations are just fluff like EQ, WoW and so on.
As far as how animations fire off in a kind of delayed and clunky fashion I think the reason its like that is to give the enemy time to react and dodge. I may be wrong but I'm guessing thats the case.
This. For skillful dodging to be meaningful, there needs to be a brief tell. The "lag" is really brief, just enough to give a really good player time to react. Once people start to recognize these tells and learn to properly manage and utilize the dodge skill, it won't feel like a big deal from the offensive end.
There is always an adjustment period for people to get used to something new. Skilled twitch players have an edge over the keyboard turning clicker crowd, but they will also need to tune themselves into the pacing of GW2 combat.
(Not minimizing the OPs take. There were a number of tiny quiblles I had with a few things here and there, but I was able to understand exactly why things are the way they are in support of the greater whole, even if something may be a little off from my personal preference).
"I've played arena competitively in WoW for quite a few seasons and would consider myself a skilled pvper"
I would not and didn't bother reading..
pro tip: stay in WoW please!
Your ignorance is baffling. If you took the time to read anything I'm not bashing any game, just making an observation with skill delay.
I enjoyed GW2 beta weekend quite a bit and think if these delayed skills were fixed and fluidity of combat was tweaked the game would be near perfect.
It is as if some people don't understand what a Beta is for. Beta means that you are going to find flaws. Coming on here and discussing things you found in Beta that could be improved is not Bashing the game, and yet that seems to be how people are taking it.
The entire combat system favors ranged characters (or weapons).
Being able to dodge is like having blink with no cooldown. Melee can never close gaps because pretty much all abilities can be fired off while moving. So if I'm ranged, I just roll off to the side, strafe and pew pew.
While melee can reactively roll towards me as a soft charge, by the time they know which way I've gone I've already taken a few steps so they're left chasing me.
So they have to hope that one of their weapon sets has a ranged imobilize or stun skill or they better find a new target to be useful.
I also agree with the OP in that the animations are sluggish and clunky. Very few abilities operate on a 1:1 with a button press and melee feels like a close quarters caster. Worst of both worlds, I get a cast bar on everything and get to soak all the damage.
There's a reason why in nearly every other game, melee classes are known for instant hitting attacks, because they need to unload when they have the chance. While casters tend to have a standing still requirement to cast spells.
I think all melee classes got atleast one cripple skill in their set of weapons
Warrior 1h sword gets a 9 second cripple
Guardians dont get a cripple i dont beleive but they get alot of swiftness buffs (and a root)
Theids get a cripple with a dagger in the offhand i beleive
Comments
Just found this article so they probably already addressed it.
"One of the elements that makes Guild Wars 2 combat feel different from other games is that many skills have their own unique animations, and the skill functionality is often based on the animations themselves. With a robust animation-blending system, we are able to easily transition between skills. In our previous demos, this was shown through chain skills, such as the warrior sword combo in the first skill slot: Sever Artery leads to Gash, which flows into Final Thrust. We realized that this system did not need to be reserved just for chain skills but could apply to the entire game. There were skills such as Savage Leap, which moved the player into range of their target, and big control attacks like Shield Bash, that you wanted to be able to quickly follow with another skill. The problem was that the animations for these skills had follow-through that was preventing players from using another skill until the animations were finished. You could stun or chase someone, but it was hard to capitalize on it.
Our programmers added technology to our skill data to allow us to specify a point in an animation at which the player could start moving again. This made skills like Savage Leap not only more functional but tremendously fun to use. This technology came in right before gamescom, so we were able to showcase it with a few important skills in that demo. Now that the technology has evolved, not only does it allow players to specify when they can start movement but it also allows us to transition into queued skills so that we can improve responsiveness. We went through every skill in the game and set up these animation breakout timings and the results were fantastic, but we didn’t stop there. I know many people have also noticed the more polished nature of the animations in the G-Star demo. Since we were able to go back and polish it, we also took a look at the impact of the new blending changes and made some timing changes to existing skills in order to give them more-appropriate anticipation, swing time, and follow-through to match the smoother feel that we were achieving with the blending. This really shines with things like big hammer swings, which now have slow buildups, quick attacks, and somewhat lengthy follow-through, depending on the skill. Ultimately, it creates a much more visceral and immediate system, which helps us straddle the line between action game and RPG."
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
I'd have to agree to a certain extent w/ the OP. Some of the skills do feel a bit clunky compared to others. I wouldn't say this is an across the board problem. It really only bothered me on certain skills like leap. However, many of those skills aren't meant to be a teleport, so even if they do fix it, it's never going to a full-proof skill. As far as my issues with the game, I would list this as a 2ndary issue, tbh.
I re-read the OP and didn't find where he said WoW was a PVP game. He did say that he did pvp in WoW but must have glossed over where he called it a PVP game.
"I've played arena competitively in WoW for quite a few seasons and would consider myself a skilled pvper"
I would not and didn't bother reading..
pro tip: stay in WoW please!
Your ignorance is baffling. If you took the time to read anything I'm not bashing any game, just making an observation with skill delay.
I enjoyed GW2 beta weekend quite a bit and think if these delayed skills were fixed and fluidity of combat was tweaked the game would be near perfect.
I felt this way when I first started playing, but by the end of the weekend I started getting used to the timings of the various combat animations.... I think it adds to realism and strategy that skills dont fire off immediately..
I'll agree that ranged have an easy time escaping and healing up.... but most of the competitive pvp is about standing on objective points.... meaning if u run away ur losing and the warrior is winning...
I had to realize that killing stuff takes some time and a lot of effort in this game.... and is not always the best solution.
Its all about the animations, modern games with complex animations have this "problem", Aion with a complete different combat system that GW2 had it also for example.
The animation issue as i see is that the responsiveness (sp?) when you click a skill is not instant, it have an animation attached and you must wait to that animation to "get" the cast, you can add that an enemy can interrup you and so on, then you end up clicking a few times the skill to use it and that give us that feel of clunky, some times they even dont land at all.
In my opinion the game will get very simple if all the skills land on click no matter what, as in EQ model ( WoW is an EQ combat system model for the OP reference ), they just need to polish it more because this system is far superior to the one which animations are just fluff like EQ, WoW and so on.
This. For skillful dodging to be meaningful, there needs to be a brief tell. The "lag" is really brief, just enough to give a really good player time to react. Once people start to recognize these tells and learn to properly manage and utilize the dodge skill, it won't feel like a big deal from the offensive end.
There is always an adjustment period for people to get used to something new. Skilled twitch players have an edge over the keyboard turning clicker crowd, but they will also need to tune themselves into the pacing of GW2 combat.
(Not minimizing the OPs take. There were a number of tiny quiblles I had with a few things here and there, but I was able to understand exactly why things are the way they are in support of the greater whole, even if something may be a little off from my personal preference).
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
It is as if some people don't understand what a Beta is for. Beta means that you are going to find flaws. Coming on here and discussing things you found in Beta that could be improved is not Bashing the game, and yet that seems to be how people are taking it.
I think all melee classes got atleast one cripple skill in their set of weapons
Warrior 1h sword gets a 9 second cripple
Guardians dont get a cripple i dont beleive but they get alot of swiftness buffs (and a root)
Theids get a cripple with a dagger in the offhand i beleive
Even rangers get a cripple with their 2h sword
I played warrior for most of the OB.
I found melee combat to be very clunky - rifle pew pew pew was much better.