Can ANY of these GW2 fanbois PLEASE explain why exactly anyone would bother playing GW2 ?
I bought GW1 and I didnt even finished the standard missions. It was just so mindnumbing superboring really quick. The classes are primitive and boring with only 8 skills, crafting was primitive beyond belief, and levelup was pointless too. No complexity at all, basically you grabbed your three followers and mindlessly kept killing stuff.
Even Diablo 2 has a better motivation for gaming, because of the item drops. But D2 couldnt keep hold of me, either.
And PvP isnt any better. What you fight about is irrelevant anyway. There is no sense of accomplishment or loss, like with Lineage 2 castle sieges. One just gains a bit ressources, nothing remotely permanent. Meh.
I utterly fail that anything substantial has changed with GW2. Quite on the contrary - they even trivialized the combat system even more, by removing a dedicated healer class. Other than that, they added fluff stuff like ugly races I wont bother playing anyway.
I really think the whole trick of GW1/GW2 is roping people into playing that very quickly are getting bored by it.
Diablo 2 made quite a large impact on its genre and GW1 has a large base of players.
Essentially what you said is that your preferences with gaming does mean anything when it comes to why anyone would bother to play it.
funny ppl keep bring cash shop out when they have choice not to use it but they have to whine about it everytime. Just use ur sub fee to buy cash shop stuff if that makes u feel better. sub fee have better quality? look at Aion lotr Aoc they have better quality? why no one wants to play them so they went f2p?
funny ppl keep bring cash shop out when they have choice not to use it but they have to whine about it everytime. Just use ur sub fee to buy cash shop stuff if that makes u feel better. sub fee have better quality? look at Aion lotr Aoc they have better quality? why no one wants to play them so they went f2p?
Nice logic mate, you compare games that are 3-4 years old to a game that is not even out, you win a cookie.
and BTW GW2 wont even effect sub based games in any way or form, most people who are playing GW2 will buy another sub game since GW2 seems to be pretty casual IMO. Its like logging on league of legends, playing a game or 2 then logging off.
While I'm doubtful that it will be the "end" of sub MMOs but it will definately could shake things up. In the end if people are having fun and a blast in a B2P MMO then then won't be wasting money on a P2P MMO, people who go "nuh-UH!!!" just have their heads in the rutt. At a minimum it will put a lot more pressure on P2P MMOs in terms of quality work and updates. WoW took for granted that people will remain subed which now it's biting em in the ass I think what with the recent decline in subs and SWTOR while still fairly new did do so many things wrong that in no way is a P2P justified in that game.
In the end GW2 while might not end P2P buisness models but it will certainly put pressure on developers. Developers will now face the question of "is our product P2P worthy?" And this is not just GW2, there are quite a few MMOs that are F2P being released that will most likely put a hurt on the P2P market.
Many sheep have been raised and nurtured into the belief that the sub model is the only way to get a AAA MMO so I doubt they will give up this idea any time soon. Developers are also very familar with the sub model and know how to use it; I doubt they want to give it up either. The founders of ArenaNet wanted to break this and I think they have come up with something that will work. It will provide another option for developers but I'm guessing newer rather then the old guard will look at it. Of course popularity will drive things if GW2 is a huge success and part of the perception of that success is B2P then of course others will follow. But I still don't see the death of the sub model.
Could you morph a sub game that is failing into a B2P game to try and recover it; much the way games go F2P now? Seems like a hard sell. I think you need to start as a B2P game from the get go.
I think the OP's question is valid. I'm finding out that not everyone loves GW2. Some are even threatened by what they see as a big deal over nothing. Afraid that this game that they have no interest in, might detract from their games or ones they are looking forward to.
Even before GW2 threatened to release, the monthly sub model has been in a state of flux. F2P with micro transactions has kept mmos alive that would already be long gone. Companies are considering alternatives to forcing players to make the final decision of continue to sub or not. They are starting to see the foolishness of promising fixes/updates to try to get their player base alive for another month.
We even see mmos planning to release as F2P at launch. Some see the ability to charge different players different amounts the best solution to make the most money, keep the most players, and keep their mmo producing income.
Will the monthly sub go down for the count? I doubt it. Not right away anyway. But I do think that mmos will continue to explore different income models instead of going straight for the de facto monthly sub that's been the standard for so many years.
No, no GW2 will NOT be the "end of subscription based MMOs". They've got a PayToWin cash-shop, and those never go over well. (in case you're wondering, they have xp boosts & chest keys that can't be earned in-game. You're exchanging RL currency for ADVANTAGES over other people...not cool ANET.)
I haven't seen a single thing in GW2 yet that I'd be willing to drop a subscription MMO for. Plus, if GW1 is any indication, Buy-To-Play doesn't keep enough content rolling long enough to keep most people interested. So
Bad post is bad.
A.) You can earn chests and their keys in game. By spending gold for gems, you can also get XP boosts without paying a dime. Conclusion: You're wrong.
B.) GW1 had constant updates and 3 expansions, as many as WoW has had so far, plenty of content without a subscription fee to fool people into spending unnecessary money. Conclusion: You're wrong again.
Please, if you're going to spread misinformation........... well, don't.
GW2 is a very focussed game. This is what makes it so good. But that is also it's biggest drawback. It's probably the best game developed in terms of what it's designed to do. But it is NOT designed to be all things to all people. It seems that GW2 is being marketed to be Number one. Here is the problem with that. There are many facets to MMOs and the reasons people play them are numerous. Below is a list of MMO aspects some people might find lacking or not well developed in GW2.
People who like to Heal
People who like to Tank
People who like to play the economies earning gold through buying and selling
People who like a comprehensive crafting system
People who like player cities and housing
People who like progression raiding
People who like progression PVP
People who like FFA PVP
People who will not touch this game for no other reason but because it has a Cash Shop
People who like to improve their stats through better gear
People who don't like action oreiented combat
This is the list that is just off the top of my head. But here is the thing. It's not exclusive. There is overlap. There are people who are in multiple categories. And for those who like GW2 for what it does offer, they will buy and play GW2. For those who are also in any of the above, they will probably maintain or at some point return to their accounts in thie other games.
In short. Some will play GW2 only, A few will not play GW2 at all, Many will play GW2 alongside something else.
No, no GW2 will NOT be the "end of subscription based MMOs". They've got a PayToWin cash-shop, and those never go over well. (in case you're wondering, they have xp boosts & chest keys that can't be earned in-game. You're exchanging RL currency for ADVANTAGES over other people...not cool ANET.)
I haven't seen a single thing in GW2 yet that I'd be willing to drop a subscription MMO for. Plus, if GW1 is any indication, Buy-To-Play doesn't keep enough content rolling long enough to keep most people interested. So
Bad post is bad.
A.) You can earn chests and their keys in game. By spending gold for gems, you can also get XP boosts without paying a dime. Conclusion: You're wrong.
B.) GW1 had constant updates and 3 expansions, as many as WoW has had so far, plenty of content without a subscription fee to fool people into spending unnecessary money. Conclusion: You're wrong again.
Please, if you're going to spread misinformation........... well, don't.
The problem is that we dont know how much gold we will need after release and at higher levels. Or how long it will take to farm that gold. If it takes more time to farm enough gold to buy the xp-potion than the time we can save if we use the xp-potion it will be pointless to buy it for gold. And a lot of players will not want to farm gold at all. Personally I think the gold I get when playing normally and when Im doing things I enjoy will have to be enough. If I need more gold than that I will have to buy it for real money. Farming and grinding is not my thing...
The OP is right. Now the standard model will be Pay to Win.
I'll Pay to Win you.
I'd pay to lose him personally.
One big misconception with being able to play GW2 alongside a subscription based game... the time factor. GW2 is highly, highly immersive. It eats up your time in a fun, dynamic way that burns hours off the clock. At some point, people are going to look at whatever subs they're paying for and not playing much, if at all, and simply cancel them. A lot of people are already cancelling subs... I have three Eve accounts that died for GW2 for example. Look at the official GW2 forums if you can, there's a significant number of posts from people dropping subs not simply due to time, but a lack of desire to play those pld style MMOs after a weekend in the beta.
Companies only charge subscriptions because we've been accepting that. We don't have to accept that any longer.
No, no GW2 will NOT be the "end of subscription based MMOs". They've got a PayToWin cash-shop, and those never go over well. (in case you're wondering, they have xp boosts & chest keys that can't be earned in-game. You're exchanging RL currency for ADVANTAGES over other people...not cool ANET.)
I haven't seen a single thing in GW2 yet that I'd be willing to drop a subscription MMO for. Plus, if GW1 is any indication, Buy-To-Play doesn't keep enough content rolling long enough to keep most people interested. So
Bad post is bad.
A.) You can earn chests and their keys in game. By spending gold for gems, you can also get XP boosts without paying a dime. Conclusion: You're wrong.
B.) GW1 had constant updates and 3 expansions, as many as WoW has had so far, plenty of content without a subscription fee to fool people into spending unnecessary money. Conclusion: You're wrong again.
Please, if you're going to spread misinformation........... well, don't.
The problem is that we dont know how much gold we will need after release and at higher levels. Or how long it will take to farm that gold. If it takes more time to farm enough gold to buy the xp-potion than the time we can save if we use the xp-potion it will be pointless to buy it for gold. And a lot of players will not want to farm gold at all. Personally I think the gold I get when playing normally and when Im doing things I enjoy will have to be enough. If I need more gold than that I will have to buy it for real money. Farming and grinding is not my thing...
I got an experience boost on kills (1 hr duration) from a mystic chest I opened with a key that dropped in game. Never thought to use the boost. Never cared. You almost forget to level aside from checking to see if you have more skill points or trait points to spend. You just play.
My point is simple, you are going to pay either way. So you need to do a fair comparison instead of pretending like GW2 is some sort of revolutionary B2P with no strings attached.
I think when you do a real comparison, you can see how subs are much better. If you really like a game, fifteen dollars a month is a bargain. You don't have to put up with a freebie community (what you saw in BWE are people who paid 60 dollars just to play a few days, so in other words, the opposite of what release will be like). You don't have some people paying more money for extra gold and xp and whatever else they decide to put in there, and believe me, they will put more.
TL:DR: The OP is right, P2W will be the new standard
Originally posted by adam_nox You don't have to put up with a freebie community
While I was always able to join nice and friendly guilds, I never found the majority of people in P2P communities really likable. Trolls, elitists, noobs, annoying kids, wackos, you name it. On the other hand, I played a couple of F2P games, met quite some nice people there.
Originally posted by adam_nox You don't have some people paying more money for extra gold
Yeah, all those gold selling sites are a figment of our imagination...
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
My point is simple, you are going to pay either way. So you need to do a fair comparison instead of pretending like GW2 is some sort of revolutionary B2P with no strings attached.
I think when you do a real comparison, you can see how subs are much better. If you really like a game, fifteen dollars a month is a bargain. You don't have to put up with a freebie community (what you saw in BWE are people who paid 60 dollars just to play a few days, so in other words, the opposite of what release will be like). You don't have some people paying more money for extra gold and xp and whatever else they decide to put in there, and believe me, they will put more.
TL:DR: The OP is right, P2W will be the new standard
ur agrument is weak b/c lotr aoc eq2 aion went f2p, swg warhammer vanguard darkfall mortal all tanked, sub game doesnt mean its better game period.
GW2 crushes any current MMO out there and ITS FREE TO PLAY.
WHY WOULD PAY A MONTHLY FEE FOR A LESSER PRODUCT? Think about it.
WoW has alot to be worried about. GW2 will take most of its western audience garanteed. And Tera? well no one cares about Tera since in tanked in Korea and has 0 endgame. SWOTR is already on the rails. GW2 is a clear future #1.
My point is simple, you are going to pay either way. So you need to do a fair comparison instead of pretending like GW2 is some sort of revolutionary B2P with no strings attached.
I think when you do a real comparison, you can see how subs are much better. If you really like a game, fifteen dollars a month is a bargain. You don't have to put up with a freebie community (what you saw in BWE are people who paid 60 dollars just to play a few days, so in other words, the opposite of what release will be like). You don't have some people paying more money for extra gold and xp and whatever else they decide to put in there, and believe me, they will put more.
TL:DR: The OP is right, P2W will be the new standard
ur agrument is weak b/c lotr aoc eq2 aion went f2p, swg warhammer vanguard darkfall mortal all tanked, sub game doesnt mean its better game period.
yes, bad games generally are f2p. at least if I'm interpreting your attempt at english lol.
Comments
I agree with you totally. But, GW2 is nothing like GW1. I really enjoy everything about GW2.
Diablo 2 made quite a large impact on its genre and GW1 has a large base of players.
Essentially what you said is that your preferences with gaming does mean anything when it comes to why anyone would bother to play it.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Nice logic mate, you compare games that are 3-4 years old to a game that is not even out, you win a cookie.
and BTW GW2 wont even effect sub based games in any way or form, most people who are playing GW2 will buy another sub game since GW2 seems to be pretty casual IMO. Its like logging on league of legends, playing a game or 2 then logging off.
While I'm doubtful that it will be the "end" of sub MMOs but it will definately could shake things up. In the end if people are having fun and a blast in a B2P MMO then then won't be wasting money on a P2P MMO, people who go "nuh-UH!!!" just have their heads in the rutt. At a minimum it will put a lot more pressure on P2P MMOs in terms of quality work and updates. WoW took for granted that people will remain subed which now it's biting em in the ass I think what with the recent decline in subs and SWTOR while still fairly new did do so many things wrong that in no way is a P2P justified in that game.
In the end GW2 while might not end P2P buisness models but it will certainly put pressure on developers. Developers will now face the question of "is our product P2P worthy?" And this is not just GW2, there are quite a few MMOs that are F2P being released that will most likely put a hurt on the P2P market.
Posting in epic thread!!!
GW2 will save me money tho. That's the big thing.GW2 + console gaming + a bit of Rift from time to time to check out new features added.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Many sheep have been raised and nurtured into the belief that the sub model is the only way to get a AAA MMO so I doubt they will give up this idea any time soon. Developers are also very familar with the sub model and know how to use it; I doubt they want to give it up either. The founders of ArenaNet wanted to break this and I think they have come up with something that will work. It will provide another option for developers but I'm guessing newer rather then the old guard will look at it. Of course popularity will drive things if GW2 is a huge success and part of the perception of that success is B2P then of course others will follow. But I still don't see the death of the sub model.
Could you morph a sub game that is failing into a B2P game to try and recover it; much the way games go F2P now? Seems like a hard sell. I think you need to start as a B2P game from the get go.
The OP made the thread in the pub - the moderators moved it to the GW2 boards.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Ah ok, this explains that - that wasn't obvious at all - actually there's no way to know that :P
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I think the OP's question is valid. I'm finding out that not everyone loves GW2. Some are even threatened by what they see as a big deal over nothing. Afraid that this game that they have no interest in, might detract from their games or ones they are looking forward to.
Even before GW2 threatened to release, the monthly sub model has been in a state of flux. F2P with micro transactions has kept mmos alive that would already be long gone. Companies are considering alternatives to forcing players to make the final decision of continue to sub or not. They are starting to see the foolishness of promising fixes/updates to try to get their player base alive for another month.
We even see mmos planning to release as F2P at launch. Some see the ability to charge different players different amounts the best solution to make the most money, keep the most players, and keep their mmo producing income.
Will the monthly sub go down for the count? I doubt it. Not right away anyway. But I do think that mmos will continue to explore different income models instead of going straight for the de facto monthly sub that's been the standard for so many years.
Bad post is bad.
A.) You can earn chests and their keys in game. By spending gold for gems, you can also get XP boosts without paying a dime. Conclusion: You're wrong.
B.) GW1 had constant updates and 3 expansions, as many as WoW has had so far, plenty of content without a subscription fee to fool people into spending unnecessary money. Conclusion: You're wrong again.
Please, if you're going to spread misinformation........... well, don't.
I doubt it will.
GW2 is a very focussed game. This is what makes it so good. But that is also it's biggest drawback. It's probably the best game developed in terms of what it's designed to do. But it is NOT designed to be all things to all people. It seems that GW2 is being marketed to be Number one. Here is the problem with that. There are many facets to MMOs and the reasons people play them are numerous. Below is a list of MMO aspects some people might find lacking or not well developed in GW2.
People who like to Heal
People who like to Tank
People who like to play the economies earning gold through buying and selling
People who like a comprehensive crafting system
People who like player cities and housing
People who like progression raiding
People who like progression PVP
People who like FFA PVP
People who will not touch this game for no other reason but because it has a Cash Shop
People who like to improve their stats through better gear
People who don't like action oreiented combat
This is the list that is just off the top of my head. But here is the thing. It's not exclusive. There is overlap. There are people who are in multiple categories. And for those who like GW2 for what it does offer, they will buy and play GW2. For those who are also in any of the above, they will probably maintain or at some point return to their accounts in thie other games.
In short. Some will play GW2 only, A few will not play GW2 at all, Many will play GW2 alongside something else.
yes better pay to win than pay to sub and lose dont u think?
I'll Pay to Win you.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
LOL,
If you are paying a sub and losing............
Well, sub based mmos aren't really that hard, at least not the ones GW2 is competing against.
The problem is that we dont know how much gold we will need after release and at higher levels. Or how long it will take to farm that gold. If it takes more time to farm enough gold to buy the xp-potion than the time we can save if we use the xp-potion it will be pointless to buy it for gold. And a lot of players will not want to farm gold at all. Personally I think the gold I get when playing normally and when Im doing things I enjoy will have to be enough. If I need more gold than that I will have to buy it for real money. Farming and grinding is not my thing...
I'd pay to lose him personally.
One big misconception with being able to play GW2 alongside a subscription based game... the time factor. GW2 is highly, highly immersive. It eats up your time in a fun, dynamic way that burns hours off the clock. At some point, people are going to look at whatever subs they're paying for and not playing much, if at all, and simply cancel them. A lot of people are already cancelling subs... I have three Eve accounts that died for GW2 for example. Look at the official GW2 forums if you can, there's a significant number of posts from people dropping subs not simply due to time, but a lack of desire to play those pld style MMOs after a weekend in the beta.
Companies only charge subscriptions because we've been accepting that. We don't have to accept that any longer.
Oderint, dum metuant.
I got an experience boost on kills (1 hr duration) from a mystic chest I opened with a key that dropped in game. Never thought to use the boost. Never cared. You almost forget to level aside from checking to see if you have more skill points or trait points to spend. You just play.
Oderint, dum metuant.
My point is simple, you are going to pay either way. So you need to do a fair comparison instead of pretending like GW2 is some sort of revolutionary B2P with no strings attached.
I think when you do a real comparison, you can see how subs are much better. If you really like a game, fifteen dollars a month is a bargain. You don't have to put up with a freebie community (what you saw in BWE are people who paid 60 dollars just to play a few days, so in other words, the opposite of what release will be like). You don't have some people paying more money for extra gold and xp and whatever else they decide to put in there, and believe me, they will put more.
TL:DR: The OP is right, P2W will be the new standard
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
ur agrument is weak b/c lotr aoc eq2 aion went f2p, swg warhammer vanguard darkfall mortal all tanked, sub game doesnt mean its better game period.
GW2 crushes any current MMO out there and ITS FREE TO PLAY.
WHY WOULD PAY A MONTHLY FEE FOR A LESSER PRODUCT? Think about it.
WoW has alot to be worried about. GW2 will take most of its western audience garanteed. And Tera? well no one cares about Tera since in tanked in Korea and has 0 endgame. SWOTR is already on the rails. GW2 is a clear future #1.
GW2 the future of MMO gaming
yes, bad games generally are f2p. at least if I'm interpreting your attempt at english lol.