Originally posted by Razeekster I wouldn't consider Mabinogi or Free Realms sandbox games. Mabinogi has some qualities, but not enough to call it a sandbox game. Actually now that I think about... I don't know how you can call it a sandbox game at all. The player has no impact on the world and can't change it.
I'll let someone else field Mabinogi, but below in green are true of Free Realms, so it fits the criteria for this list.
A game that has many of these features can be considered a sandbox and a game that has few of these features is not.
•An open world, not a collection of small maps •A non-instanced game world, no private instances for story mode or private dungeons (zones are okay if technically needed) •Gameplay features other than combat activities, for example: fishing, harvesting, prospecting, crafting, diplomacy, music, trading •Character progression or development outside of combat (see above examples) •Open-ended gameplay, no "game starts at level 50" game design •Player-driven in-game economy, not a loot-driven economy, no bind-on-equip or bind-on acquire items •Character development that can be customised via skills and/or customisations of class roles, not a class system where every level 50 warrior has the exact same skills and attributes •Non-linear character development where characters are not limited to developer-defined roles, for example: free skill trees or multi-classing of characters •In-depth crafting system. A crafting system is considered in-depth if the majority of items in the game is player-made and when crafted items can be at least as good as dropped items •In-depth resource system. A resource system is considered in-depth if items can be made from raw resources that influence the resulting item (either it's stats or it's appearance is okay) •Persistent game world. A game where the world (or parts of the world) reset to a known state in regular intervals is not persistent •Player's ability to change aspects of the game world, either by being able to modify the physical game world or by being able to take ownership of structures in the game world •Some form of customizable player housing/building
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So I see that you have two games that I have played listed as Sandbox type games. The two I saw were Afterworld and Fallen Earth.
Lets start with Afterworld I would not really consider this "sandbox" this is a very limited game and is extremely limited as to what you can do. There are no housing you can make there and can only make certian items in the game with virtually no customization to the items. I have played Afterworld for about 2 years. It is pretty much a grinding game where most of the time in this game you are out picking rocks and chopping trees. The economy in the game itself is pretty much flat and you can not really make any real amount of money in the game. It has been like this for years now and there is no sign of any kind of improvement.
Also as per your own defination for an "open world" I would not consider afterworld an open world either it is just a series of smaller areas that you move between.
"An open world, not a collection of small maps" is how you are defining a "sandbox" type game.
There is no ability really in Afterworld the change aspects of the game either the game is pretty well locked in when it comes to that. There isn't really any way that a player can modify the game really and you can't take control of structures in Afterworld either.
I really would not consider afterworld a "sandbox" type game yes I do admit there are some things there that may be sandbox like but I don't think they are quite there yet to be called a full "sandbox" game they may be on the way there but they need a lot of improvements still to be considered a "sandbox" game.
Now for the 2nd game Fallen Earth yes this game was very sandboxy and you could customize a lot of the items in the game but when they released the 2.4 patch for Fallen Earth they nerfed a lot of the crafting queues for over night crafting and basically ruined a lot of of the crafting aspect to this game. A lot of the crafting really got wrecked when they released this 2.4 patch so if you are expecting an awesome crafting system in Fallen Earth now you are going to be extremely disappointed the crafting system is very limited on queue times now. Before if you donated towards the game you would have a crafting queue of 20 items that you could create now even after you have donated you will only have 2 crafting queues. A lot of people left this game because of the changes which were done and the development team really angered a lot of the loyal players on this game causing them to leave the game. There is also no player built housing in Fallen Earth either. Also Fallen Earth does have some instances as well. Another problem I have with fallen earth is the fact that it is very loot driven as well. In order to be able to craft a lot of times you have to kill monsters to be able to get the loot from them such as skins or other items that drop off them so you can craft using those items. I found Fallen Earth to be quite loot driven and that a lot of the time you are killing monsters to skin them or to get loot off of them so you can create items. it is quite a loot driven economy.
Fallen Earth had a really good crafting system in place but in my opinion with the 2.4 patch they pretty well ruined it. I really wouldn't even consider fallen earth free to play any more but more pay to play because they limit you now to such a degree that you are only going to get to a certian point and then you will end up paying to progress further. The free part is extremely limited now and not like before the 2.4 patch where you were free to do anything.
Again there is no housing system in Fallen Earth that are player run and no real way for a player to be able to take control of buildings in the game. There is also not really any way to physically change the in game play either again it is really locked when it comes to this as well.
I know you may have heard some good things about Fallen Earth in the past and how great the crafting was well I am telling you that has all changed . You will be extremely disappointed now on what they have done with the game and in my opinion this game isn't worth your time any more.
So I see that you have two games that I have played listed as Sandbox type games. The two I saw were Afterworld and Fallen Earth.
Lets start with Afterworld I would not really consider this "sandbox" this is a very limited game and is extremely limited as to what you can do. There are no housing you can make there and can only make certian items in the game with virtually no customization to the items. I have played Afterworld for about 2 years. It is pretty much a grinding game where most of the time in this game you are out picking rocks and chopping trees. The economy in the game itself is pretty much flat and you can not really make any real amount of money in the game. It has been like this for years now and there is no sign of any kind of improvement.
Also as per your own defination for an "open world" I would not consider afterworld an open world either it is just a series of smaller areas that you move between.
"An open world, not a collection of small maps" is how you are defining a "sandbox" type game.
There is no ability really in Afterworld the change aspects of the game either the game is pretty well locked in when it comes to that. There isn't really any way that a player can modify the game really and you can't take control of structures in Afterworld either.
A game that has many of these features can be considered a sandbox and a game that has few of these features is not.
•An open world, not a collection of small maps •A non-instanced game world, no private instances for story mode or private dungeons (zones are okay if technically needed) •Gameplay features other than combat activities, for example: fishing, harvesting, prospecting, crafting, diplomacy, music, trading •Character progression or development outside of combat (see above examples) •Open-ended gameplay, no "game starts at level 50" game design •Player-driven in-game economy, not a loot-driven economy, no bind-on-equip or bind-on acquire items •Character development that can be customised via skills and/or customisations of class roles, not a class system where every level 50 warrior has the exact same skills and attributes •Non-linear character development where characters are not limited to developer-defined roles, for example: free skill trees or multi-classing of characters •In-depth crafting system. A crafting system is considered in-depth if the majority of items in the game is player-made and when crafted items can be at least as good as dropped items •In-depth resource system. A resource system is considered in-depth if items can be made from raw resources that influence the resulting item (either it's stats or it's appearance is okay) •Persistent game world. A game where the world (or parts of the world) reset to a known state in regular intervals is not persistent •Player's ability to change aspects of the game world, either by being able to modify the physical game world or by being able to take ownership of structures in the game world •Some form of customizable player housing/building
From MMOHut:
"Afterworld lets you join the free-market economy set up in Siberia in the wake of an apocalyptic event. You develop your character through the use of skills, with over 100 to choose from. Each skill uses unique game mechanics to raise. Crafting is the focus of the game, and it offers over 1000 items to make. The system also features branching construction paths, so you can choose even more what and how you want your goods to develop. The game offers 18 different locations to explore, stretching over 100 square kilometers for a very expansive game world."
Seems like it meets the criteria.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
"Afterworld lets you join the free-market economy set up in Siberia in the wake of an apocalyptic event. You develop your character through the use of skills, with over 100 to choose from. Each skill uses unique game mechanics to raise. Crafting is the focus of the game, and it offers over 1000 items to make. The system also features branching construction paths, so you can choose even more what and how you want your goods to develop. The game offers 18 different locations to explore, stretching over 100 square kilometers for a very expansive game world."
Seems like it meets the criteria.
Nope it doesn't it really isn't sandbox for Afterworld. It is pretty much grind and kill stuff to loot stuff off of items so you can make stuff. You do have to kill stuff to get materials so it is loot based. 100 Square kilometers LOL I doubt it I have been though every map on the game in fact some of the maps got removed such as the valley of death which used to be in the game. Don't believe everything you read from another website. I have played the game. As I said before it may have a few bits and pieces of a "sandbox" game but still lacks a lot. As I said crafting is very boring and mundane on this game with absolutely NO customization to items what so ever. The game is most definately loot driven as well because you have to kill stuff to get hides and other materials so you can actually craft and it is the only way to get some of the materials. So this game still depends on you grinding and killing stuff so no it doesn't meet the criteria.
Have you even played the game or are you just reading what some one else is saying on another website.
It also has no player run housing what so ever in the game. The items can not be customized in any way so I would not consider the crafting system to really be in-depth.
Nor is there any part of the game that is "persistant" either in Afterworld nothing basically resets in the world.
I have played the game for quite a while. I know what aspects of the game are present and what are not.
Nor do I believe there is a 1000 items to craft either in the game again stop reading what is put on another website and go play the game. I have been in the game and there are no where close to that many items that are craftable. Sounds like you are relying on all 3rd party information as your source of information.
I am sorry it does not meet the criteria what so ever it may have a few aspects of a sandbox game but has a long way to go before it could ever earn the title of a "sandbox" mmorpg.
Originally posted by Razeekster I wouldn't consider Mabinogi or Free Realms sandbox games. Mabinogi has some qualities, but not enough to call it a sandbox game. Actually now that I think about... I don't know how you can call it a sandbox game at all. The player has no impact on the world and can't change it.
I'll let someone else field Mabinogi, but below in green are true of Free Realms, so it fits the criteria for this list.
If I were to say, Mabinogi would be 75% Sandbox and 25% Themepark. To use your lists of criterias for comparison :
•An open world, not a collection of small maps •A non-instanced game world, no private instances for story mode or private dungeons (zones are okay if technically needed) •Gameplay features other than combat activities, for example: fishing, harvesting, prospecting, crafting, diplomacy, music, trading •Character progression or development outside of combat (see above examples) •Open-ended gameplay, no "game starts at level 50" game design •Player-driven in-game economy, not a loot-driven economy, no bind-on-equip or bind-on acquire items •Character development that can be customised via skills and/or customisations of class roles, not a class system where every level 50 warrior has the exact same skills and attributes •Non-linear character development where characters are not limited to developer-defined roles, for example: free skill trees or multi-classing of characters •In-depth crafting system. A crafting system is considered in-depth if the majority of items in the game is player-made and when crafted items can be at least as good as dropped items •In-depth resource system. A resource system is considered in-depth if items can be made from raw resources that influence the resulting item (either it's stats or it's appearance is okay) (appearance only and very limited) •Persistent game world. A game where the world (or parts of the world) reset to a known state in regular intervals is not persistent •Player's ability to change aspects of the game world, either by being able to modify the physical game world or by being able to take ownership of structures in the game world (very minor - Guild Castles for guild battle events which are weekly I think) •Some form of customizable player housing/building
"Afterworld lets you join the free-market economy set up in Siberia in the wake of an apocalyptic event. You develop your character through the use of skills, with over 100 to choose from. Each skill uses unique game mechanics to raise. Crafting is the focus of the game, and it offers over 1000 items to make. The system also features branching construction paths, so you can choose even more what and how you want your goods to develop. The game offers 18 different locations to explore, stretching over 100 square kilometers for a very expansive game world."
Seems like it meets the criteria.
Nope it doesn't it really isn't sandbox for Afterworld. It is pretty much grind and kill stuff to loot stuff off of items so you can make stuff. You do have to kill stuff to get materials so it is loot based. 100 Square kilometers LOL I doubt it I have been though every map on the game in fact some of the maps got removed such as the valley of death which used to be in the game. Don't believe everything you read from another website. I have played the game. As I said before it may have a few bits and pieces of a "sandbox" game but still lacks a lot. As I said crafting is very boring and mundane on this game with absolutely NO customization to items what so ever. The game is most definately loot driven as well because you have to kill stuff to get hides and other materials so you can actually craft and it is the only way to get some of the materials. So this game still depends on you grinding and killing stuff so no it doesn't meet the criteria.
Have you even played the game or are you just reading what some one else is saying on another website.
It also has no player run housing what so ever in the game. The items can not be customized in any way so I would not consider the crafting system to really be in-depth.
Nor is there any part of the game that is "persistant" either in Afterworld nothing basically resets in the world.
I have played the game for quite a while. I know what aspects of the game are present and what are not.
Nor do I believe there is a 1000 items to craft either in the game again stop reading what is put on another website and go play the game. I have been in the game and there are no where close to that many items that are craftable. Sounds like you are relying on all 3rd party information as your source of information.
I am sorry it does not meet the criteria what so ever it may have a few aspects of a sandbox game but has a long way to go before it could ever earn the title of a "sandbox" mmorpg.
I haven't played in a over year, but I've definitely played it. To your points:
no one said it has housing
the lack of resets supports persistence, not voids it.
craftable items - I don't know about 1,000 being true but it is certainly hundreds. Here's a partial list:
It seems the world and housing are your two points of contention, but you're preaching to the choir. If you look at the list, I didn't check either of those as criteria it met. it does meet most others, however.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
An open world, not a collection of small maps - The world is open but each encounter is instnaced whether it be open PVP or a scouting encounter
A non-instanced game world, no private instances for story mode or private dungeons (zones are okay if technically needed) - The world is not instanced but the encounters within it are. You have a static map that you cancreate your own Gang Camp.
Gameplay features other than combat activities, for example: fishing, harvesting, prospecting, crafting, diplomacy, music, trading - Trade runs and instnace scavenging of junk piles. You can also do some arena or league racing/deathracing
Character progression or development outside of combat(see above examples) - Using your character increases their skill levels.
Open-ended gameplay, no "game starts at level 50" game design - Completely open sandbox world. There is no endgame. There are places that you have no businness going though if you don't have the skill/equipment ot survive.
Player-driven in-game economy, not a loot-driven economy, no bind-on-equip or bind-on acquire items - You keep what you kill. The only loot in game is what you can salvage from defeated enemies. You can freely trade with other players and NPC in towns
Character development that can be customised via skills and/or customisations of class roles, not a class system where every level 50 warrior has the exact same skills and attributes - Completely open skill system. You recruit gang members and choose what areas you wnat them to progress in.
Non-linear character development where characters are not limited to developer-defined roles, for example: free skill trees or multi-classing of characters Perma Death, Permenent and short term injuries, Old age, and specializations give you real immersion. No respawning and running back to the encounter if you mess up. You are either gong ot be dead, walking home, or taken to the Gladiator Pits.
In-depth crafting system. A crafting system is considered in-depth if the majority of items in the game is player-made and when crafted items can be at least as good as dropped items - The Gang Camps allow you to gather materials and create your own weapons/Vehicles. You can also fully customize your car and character skins, and sell them.
In-depth resource system. A resource system is considered in-depth if items can be made from raw resources that influence the resulting item (either it's stats or it's appearance is okay) Car Parts, Scrap Metal, and Fuel. The resources are fairly limited.
Persistent game world. A game where the world (or parts of the world) reset to a known state in regular intervals is not persistent The world is fully persistent.
Player's ability to change aspects of the game world, either by being able to modify the physical game world or by being able to take ownership of structures in the game world Multiple Gang player camps can be created anywhere in the world.
Some form of customizable player housing/building No housing customization.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Looking at what OP thinks devines a sandbox, then SilkRoad online should be in the list as well. Though the game does have levels, there are no pre-made classes, and you can modifie your 'class' throught a skilltree in your own way, making every skill combination possible...
I hadn't realized Darkwind had added that much. I have to check that out again.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Guild Wars 2 is more sandboxy than the most titles offered in this thread. I am actually begining to lose hope of a good sandbox game coming these days and the best choice I have is GW2 since it is the best MMO-Title in industry nowadays and it is kinda very sandboxy when it comes to its '' core ''. Probably will get better when housing and guild halls come, until then, I am still waiting for a good title.
It seems the world and housing are your two points of contention, but you're preaching to the choir. If you look at the list, I didn't check either of those as criteria it met. it does meet most others, however.
It doesn't meat toe cirteria what so ever. It may have a few aspecs of a sandbox game but is NOT a full sandbox MMO
Also because it does not have resets is one of the criteria and since it doesn't have it puts it not in the a true sandbox type game. Also the same thing with the housing because it is lacking that also puts it not in the true sandbox type game catagorty. And also the lack of customizable item also has it put into the non-sandbox catagory as well all of these are lacking which a sandbox game should have.
You are also the one that posted saying it had thousands of items and you quoted some other website now you are going back on that. I really don't think you know what you are talking about.
Again I stand by what I said before Afterworld may have a few points that are a bit sandboxy but lack a lot of stuff to make it a full sandbox style game.
It doesn't meet most of the others what so ever it only has a few other points the map is NOT one giant map it is a bunch of smaller maps as well which you move betweeen. Nor do I believe that you are right when you said the size before either as I said they are all SMALLER maps which you move between NOT one giant map again doesn't fit the criteria you have checked things off that do NOT meet. As far as I am concerned Afterworld is NOT a full sandbox game and I stand by that now please just stop posting you obviously do not know what you are talking about!
Originally posted by Loktofeit I hadn't realized Darkwind had added that much. I have to check that out again.
I think if they just reskinned the graphics and touched it up a bit that game could see a lot of new players. I have given up on playing an MMO with any real depth that has decent graphics though. I figured it out a longtime ago. You can have shiny and shallow, or dated and in depth.
They've even added a ultra hardcore mode called Scavenger that removes all money from the game, and your gang can starve to death.
This is the game I consistently find myself going back to when other MMO's let me down.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Should add Linkrealms to that list, I know it is not fully released yet, but anyone can create an account, download the game and log right in... Also perhaps Second Life can be considered a Sandbox MMORPG, but really it is a simulator in many ways, more than one.. I don't see APB - Reloaded on the list either..
@Razeekster: I didn't play Mabinogi or Free Realms, both games are on the list because posters suggested them and from what I've seen on their official websites and their forums they might fit the bill. I'll have a second look at them, thanks to Loktofeit for already posting about Free Realms.
@Darkshad: Likewise, I didn't play Afterworld or Fallen Earth. In the case of Afterworld it seems to me that you criticize the quality of how the features are implemented more than that you say the features aren't there. Well, for this list, quality doesn't really matter, frankly, I would know a few games more that are on the list where I personally think that they're not good games - but, they're listed here because they have the feature, my personal taste doesn't matter.
I will have to look into Fallen Earth, whether this patch 2.4 changed things around.
[Edit: completely forgot to thank you for the suggestion concerning swgemu. I had not listed SWG because it's no longer active, but in a way it still is, unofficially. Frankly, I don't know yet how to deal with that, I'll have to think that over.]
@Loktofeit: Thanks for the support and your opinion, much appreciated.
@MadnessRealm: Thanks for your post and the information about Mabinogi, makes it much easier for me to judge a game I've never played.
@TruthXhurts: Thanks for the suggestion about Darkwind: War on Wheels, I didn't even know the game, I will have a look at it in the coming days.
@Reizla: Likewise, I will look at Silkroad, could you please use the feature list from the OP as well? As you've seen, it makes it much easier to initially decide whether a game should be put on the list here. Thanks in advance.
@eGumball: Oh, dear, was only a matter of time I guess until someone would suggest GW2. Anyway, could you please use the feature list from the OP as well and list the GW2 features so that we can see whether it ticks the boxes? Thanks in advance.
@Eyrothath: Linkrealms has been suggested before, but according to Linkrealms own website it is in closed beta. Sometimes they seem to accept new players, sometimes they don't. Right now it reads: "New Beta Account Status: BY APPLICATION".
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
I have decided to exclude unofficial servers and emulators from this list.
Reason:
This List of Sandbox MMORPGs is hosted here in the forums at MMORPG.com. And as long as it is hosted here we will have to follow the Rules of Conduct the staff here at MMORPG.com has set out. Amongst these rules are:
"Discussing or advertising unofficial servers or emulators for MMOs is not permitted on the MMORPG.com forums. These servers are against the Terms of Service of the original game, and violate the intellectual propriety rights of the game's publisher and developer."
Therefore unofficial servers or emulators cannot appear on this List of Sandbox MMORPGs.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Originally posted by Razeekster I wouldn't consider Mabinogi or Free Realms sandbox games. Mabinogi has some qualities, but not enough to call it a sandbox game. Actually now that I think about... I don't know how you can call it a sandbox game at all. The player has no impact on the world and can't change it.
An open world, not a collection of small maps - Mabinogi has an actual world. Though instanced, no zones are set for levels x to x. Each zone has it's own attraction that players of all levels can use.
Gameplay features other than combat activities, for example: fishing, harvesting, prospecting, crafting, diplomacy, music, trading - Mabinogi has every one of these.
Character progression or development outside of combat(see above examples) - Again, it has this.
Open-ended gameplay, no "game starts at level 50" game design - Check.
Player-driven in-game economy, not a loot-driven economy, no bind-on-equip or bind-on acquire items - Check. Only items that are bound to players are main storyline quest items and gear given out to newer players from beginner quests.
Character development that can be customised via skills and/or customisations of class roles, not a class system where every level 50 warrior has the exact same skills and attributes - No classes, skill based.
Non-linear character development where characters are not limited to developer-defined roles, for example: free skill trees or multi-classing of characters - See above.
In-depth crafting system. A crafting system is considered in-depth if the majority of items in the game is player-made and when crafted items can be at least as good as dropped items - Crafting requires materials to move the progress along, a minigame for each craft, and ranks for the crafting skills. Crafters make better items than there counterparts found in stores, even more so when using the merchant destiny.
In-depth resource system. A resource system is considered in-depth if items can be made from raw resources that influence the resulting item (either it's stats or it's appearance is okay) - Has this. Coming update brings skills especially for harvesting too.
Player's ability to change aspects of the game world, either by being able to modify the physical game world or by being able to take ownership of structures in the game world - There are 4 residential areas in the world where players can rent housing to use as shops or crafting stations. The guild that owns that areas castle has to actually build up the houses in any style they want and rent them out. The guild builds no house? None for the player. Many more examples in the game too.
Some form of customizable player housing/building - See above.
Mabinogi surely fits the role of sandbox given by OP.
I would remove Fallen Earth from list. It doesn't have housing and no way to change game world (or at least didn't have when I played it). And generally - I would remove any game that doesn't allow players to change world - IMHO - that is only feature that sandbox game must have.
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
Time for an update. There have recently been some posts both challenging games that are on the list and suggesting new games for the list.
Games that are challenged: Afterworld, Fallen Earth, Free Realms, Mabinogi.
Games that have been suggested: Darkwind: War of Wheels, Guild Wars 2, Silkroad Online.
Some decisions have been made, some others are still open to discussion.
Afterworld will stay on the list until I had a chance to look into the game. I understand that both features and the quality of the features are in question. Sadly, if quality would count for this list I would have to remove more than one game. Features count for this list, not necessarily how good the features are implemented. I'll have a look at the features and will report back in a few days.
Darkwind: War of Wheels, a very interesting suggestion. Is it an RPG? There is no such thing as a player character in Darkwind because the player controls multiple characters that are hired to form a team - and the player is the one controlling the team. There's also the fact that all combat happens in instanced areas and arenas, I hope I got that right. I think about the game much more like an online real time strategy wargame than an RPG. Much of the gameplay beside combat doesn't even happen in a gameworld but on a website. Any comments?
Fallen Earth will stay on the list until I had a chance to look into the game more. I understand a recent patch has changed the importance of crafting, especially for F2P-players, and according to posts on the FE forums many of those have left. I think the feature is still present however, likewise there's territorial control in the game: I will look into it but I tend to keep it on the list.
Free Realms will stay on the list. Thanks to Loktofeit for providing the input in post 154.
Guild Wars 2 will not be listed, the game does not meet the criteria as stated in the OP.
Mabinogi will stay on the list. Thanks to MadnessRealm (post 158) and to Draron (in post 169) for providing the input.
Silkroad Online will not be listed, the game does not meet the criteria as stated in the OP.
Thanks, OP out.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
LARSA the Gatekeeper of the Sandbox! You rock thanks for this thread. Its hard to find info on sandbox games.
I was wondering if you would put DayZ on the list. Its a MMOFPS that has no levels, and no skills, its a gear and shooting skill based game, where you have to find gear and weapons in a 250 sqkm map based on Russia. There is permadeath, player looting, you can find and fix vehicles and use them (cars, trucks, bicycles, helicopters, etc.). It has realistic survival mechanics. In other words you must eat when your hungry, drink when your thirsty, build a fire and warm up when you get cold, find medicine if you get sick or have a friend give you a blood transfusion when your low on blood. You can change the world around you (although a bit limited atm) by building sandbag walls and barbed wire fences as protection. Here is a link: http://dayzmod.com/
From what I've seen and read about it the game comes close, but it isn't obvious either. Thus I want to ask for opinions from people that have played the game. Anyone has played the game and wants to contribute, preferably by filling in the sandbox feature list from the original post? Thanks in advance. Also thanks to member Phaserlight to suggest the game.
I wait a few days for additional info, otherwise I set the game on the list and expect people posting that it isn't a sandbox. ;-) j/k
I think DayZ cannot be listed for at least two reasons:
It's not massive because a DayZ server cannot host 500 concurrent players. This is the minimum amount of concurrent players on the same server (thus players that can interact with each other) according to MMORPG.com. I had decided to use the same requirement.
It isn't an RPG. There is no character progression of any sorts I believe.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks to member UnholyEvil for suggesting the mod.
I'm sorry about this. There are a lot of mods and small indie games out there that are sandboxy and online without being an MMORPG, listing only some of them (arguably the most popular ones: DayZ, Minecraft, Mount & Blade) would show bias, listing all of them is far beyond the scope of this thread (and would be a full time job, hehe).
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Originally posted by Cristina1 What about Pirates of the Burning Sea?
Cristina, thanks for the suggestion. I played PotBS myself (before the switch to F2P) and very much enjoyed my time in the game (about half a year). But it certainly isn't a sandbox. It's not the run-of-the-mill themepark, but a sandbox it isn't.
Here's the sandbox feature list from my original post (red for PotBS doesn't meet the requirements, green for meets the requirements):
An open world, not a collection of small maps
A non-instanced game world, no private instances for story mode or private dungeons (zones are okay if technically needed)
Gameplay features other than combat activities, for example: fishing, harvesting, prospecting, crafting, diplomacy, music, trading
Character progression or development outside of combat(see above examples)
Open-ended gameplay, no "game starts at level 50" game design
Player-driven in-game economy, not a loot-driven economy, no bind-on-equip or bind-on acquire items
Character development that can be customised via skills and/or customisations of class roles, not a class system where every level 50 warrior has the exact same skills and attributes
Non-linear character development where characters are not limited to developer-defined roles, for example: free skill trees or multi-classing of characters
In-depth crafting system. A crafting system is considered in-depth if the majority of items in the game is player-made and when crafted items can be at least as good as dropped items
In-depth resource system. A resource system is considered in-depth if items can be made from raw resources that influence the resulting item (either it's stats or it's appearance is okay)
Persistent game world. A game where the world (or parts of the world) reset to a known state in regular intervals is not persistent
Player's ability to change aspects of the game world, either by being able to modify the physical game world or by being able to take ownership of structures in the game world
Some form of customizable player housing/building
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Also most MMORPG's that use levels as a means of progression are Theme parks. It's Not always the case but 90% of MMORPG's that I've played that had leveling systems where the "end-game" was eternal PVP have been theme parks.
Also Minecraft sort of DOES qualify as an MMORPG because if you have a server with enough hardware you can host well over 500 players. I've seen some servers hosting 6500+ players with multiple servers acting as world "shards". And some even go so far as to charge a subscription fee ( for server maitnence reasons).
As for it not being an RPG is also bollocks because it has a lot of RPG elements. You CAN improve your character through enchanted armor, tools and weapons And there is a working potion system. It also has NPC's you can buy stff from as well as combat with monsters and other players depending how the server is set up.
Sure it has a singleplayer component but it's actually a local server. You can even open up a singleplayer game to the public on a LAN and it becomes a multiplayer game.
So is Minecraft an MMORPG? The answer is both Yes and No.
Comments
I'll let someone else field Mabinogi, but below in green are true of Free Realms, so it fits the criteria for this list.
A game that has many of these features can be considered a sandbox and a game that has few of these features is not.
•An open world, not a collection of small maps
•A non-instanced game world, no private instances for story mode or private dungeons (zones are okay if technically needed)
•Gameplay features other than combat activities, for example: fishing, harvesting, prospecting, crafting, diplomacy, music, trading
•Character progression or development outside of combat (see above examples)
•Open-ended gameplay, no "game starts at level 50" game design
•Player-driven in-game economy, not a loot-driven economy, no bind-on-equip or bind-on acquire items
•Character development that can be customised via skills and/or customisations of class roles, not a class system where every level 50 warrior has the exact same skills and attributes
•Non-linear character development where characters are not limited to developer-defined roles, for example: free skill trees or multi-classing of characters
•In-depth crafting system. A crafting system is considered in-depth if the majority of items in the game is player-made and when crafted items can be at least as good as dropped items
•In-depth resource system. A resource system is considered in-depth if items can be made from raw resources that influence the resulting item (either it's stats or it's appearance is okay)
•Persistent game world. A game where the world (or parts of the world) reset to a known state in regular intervals is not persistent
•Player's ability to change aspects of the game world, either by being able to modify the physical game world or by being able to take ownership of structures in the game world
•Some form of customizable player housing/building
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So I see that you have two games that I have played listed as Sandbox type games. The two I saw were Afterworld and Fallen Earth.
Lets start with Afterworld I would not really consider this "sandbox" this is a very limited game and is extremely limited as to what you can do. There are no housing you can make there and can only make certian items in the game with virtually no customization to the items. I have played Afterworld for about 2 years. It is pretty much a grinding game where most of the time in this game you are out picking rocks and chopping trees. The economy in the game itself is pretty much flat and you can not really make any real amount of money in the game. It has been like this for years now and there is no sign of any kind of improvement.
Also as per your own defination for an "open world" I would not consider afterworld an open world either it is just a series of smaller areas that you move between.
"An open world, not a collection of small maps" is how you are defining a "sandbox" type game.
There is no ability really in Afterworld the change aspects of the game either the game is pretty well locked in when it comes to that. There isn't really any way that a player can modify the game really and you can't take control of structures in Afterworld either.
I really would not consider afterworld a "sandbox" type game yes I do admit there are some things there that may be sandbox like but I don't think they are quite there yet to be called a full "sandbox" game they may be on the way there but they need a lot of improvements still to be considered a "sandbox" game.
Now for the 2nd game Fallen Earth yes this game was very sandboxy and you could customize a lot of the items in the game but when they released the 2.4 patch for Fallen Earth they nerfed a lot of the crafting queues for over night crafting and basically ruined a lot of of the crafting aspect to this game. A lot of the crafting really got wrecked when they released this 2.4 patch so if you are expecting an awesome crafting system in Fallen Earth now you are going to be extremely disappointed the crafting system is very limited on queue times now. Before if you donated towards the game you would have a crafting queue of 20 items that you could create now even after you have donated you will only have 2 crafting queues. A lot of people left this game because of the changes which were done and the development team really angered a lot of the loyal players on this game causing them to leave the game. There is also no player built housing in Fallen Earth either. Also Fallen Earth does have some instances as well. Another problem I have with fallen earth is the fact that it is very loot driven as well. In order to be able to craft a lot of times you have to kill monsters to be able to get the loot from them such as skins or other items that drop off them so you can craft using those items. I found Fallen Earth to be quite loot driven and that a lot of the time you are killing monsters to skin them or to get loot off of them so you can create items. it is quite a loot driven economy.
Fallen Earth had a really good crafting system in place but in my opinion with the 2.4 patch they pretty well ruined it. I really wouldn't even consider fallen earth free to play any more but more pay to play because they limit you now to such a degree that you are only going to get to a certian point and then you will end up paying to progress further. The free part is extremely limited now and not like before the 2.4 patch where you were free to do anything.
Again there is no housing system in Fallen Earth that are player run and no real way for a player to be able to take control of buildings in the game. There is also not really any way to physically change the in game play either again it is really locked when it comes to this as well.
I know you may have heard some good things about Fallen Earth in the past and how great the crafting was well I am telling you that has all changed . You will be extremely disappointed now on what they have done with the game and in my opinion this game isn't worth your time any more.
[mod edit]A game that has many of these features can be considered a sandbox and a game that has few of these features is not.
•An open world, not a collection of small maps
•A non-instanced game world, no private instances for story mode or private dungeons (zones are okay if technically needed)
•Gameplay features other than combat activities, for example: fishing, harvesting, prospecting, crafting, diplomacy, music, trading
•Character progression or development outside of combat (see above examples)
•Open-ended gameplay, no "game starts at level 50" game design
•Player-driven in-game economy, not a loot-driven economy, no bind-on-equip or bind-on acquire items
•Character development that can be customised via skills and/or customisations of class roles, not a class system where every level 50 warrior has the exact same skills and attributes
•Non-linear character development where characters are not limited to developer-defined roles, for example: free skill trees or multi-classing of characters
•In-depth crafting system. A crafting system is considered in-depth if the majority of items in the game is player-made and when crafted items can be at least as good as dropped items
•In-depth resource system. A resource system is considered in-depth if items can be made from raw resources that influence the resulting item (either it's stats or it's appearance is okay)
•Persistent game world. A game where the world (or parts of the world) reset to a known state in regular intervals is not persistent
•Player's ability to change aspects of the game world, either by being able to modify the physical game world or by being able to take ownership of structures in the game world
•Some form of customizable player housing/building
From MMOHut:
"Afterworld lets you join the free-market economy set up in Siberia in the wake of an apocalyptic event. You develop your character through the use of skills, with over 100 to choose from. Each skill uses unique game mechanics to raise. Crafting is the focus of the game, and it offers over 1000 items to make. The system also features branching construction paths, so you can choose even more what and how you want your goods to develop. The game offers 18 different locations to explore, stretching over 100 square kilometers for a very expansive game world."
Seems like it meets the criteria.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Nope it doesn't it really isn't sandbox for Afterworld. It is pretty much grind and kill stuff to loot stuff off of items so you can make stuff. You do have to kill stuff to get materials so it is loot based. 100 Square kilometers LOL I doubt it I have been though every map on the game in fact some of the maps got removed such as the valley of death which used to be in the game. Don't believe everything you read from another website. I have played the game. As I said before it may have a few bits and pieces of a "sandbox" game but still lacks a lot. As I said crafting is very boring and mundane on this game with absolutely NO customization to items what so ever. The game is most definately loot driven as well because you have to kill stuff to get hides and other materials so you can actually craft and it is the only way to get some of the materials. So this game still depends on you grinding and killing stuff so no it doesn't meet the criteria.
Have you even played the game or are you just reading what some one else is saying on another website.
It also has no player run housing what so ever in the game. The items can not be customized in any way so I would not consider the crafting system to really be in-depth.
Nor is there any part of the game that is "persistant" either in Afterworld nothing basically resets in the world.
I have played the game for quite a while. I know what aspects of the game are present and what are not.
Nor do I believe there is a 1000 items to craft either in the game again stop reading what is put on another website and go play the game. I have been in the game and there are no where close to that many items that are craftable. Sounds like you are relying on all 3rd party information as your source of information.
I am sorry it does not meet the criteria what so ever it may have a few aspects of a sandbox game but has a long way to go before it could ever earn the title of a "sandbox" mmorpg.
If I were to say, Mabinogi would be 75% Sandbox and 25% Themepark. To use your lists of criterias for comparison :
•An open world, not a collection of small maps
•A non-instanced game world, no private instances for story mode or private dungeons (zones are okay if technically needed)
•Gameplay features other than combat activities, for example: fishing, harvesting, prospecting, crafting, diplomacy, music, trading
•Character progression or development outside of combat (see above examples)
•Open-ended gameplay, no "game starts at level 50" game design
•Player-driven in-game economy, not a loot-driven economy, no bind-on-equip or bind-on acquire items
•Character development that can be customised via skills and/or customisations of class roles, not a class system where every level 50 warrior has the exact same skills and attributes
•Non-linear character development where characters are not limited to developer-defined roles, for example: free skill trees or multi-classing of characters
•In-depth crafting system. A crafting system is considered in-depth if the majority of items in the game is player-made and when crafted items can be at least as good as dropped items
•In-depth resource system. A resource system is considered in-depth if items can be made from raw resources that influence the resulting item (either it's stats or it's appearance is okay) (appearance only and very limited)
•Persistent game world. A game where the world (or parts of the world) reset to a known state in regular intervals is not persistent
•Player's ability to change aspects of the game world, either by being able to modify the physical game world or by being able to take ownership of structures in the game world (very minor - Guild Castles for guild battle events which are weekly I think)
•Some form of customizable player housing/building
I haven't played in a over year, but I've definitely played it. To your points:
no one said it has housing
the lack of resets supports persistence, not voids it.
craftable items - I don't know about 1,000 being true but it is certainly hundreds. Here's a partial list:
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Darkwind: War on Wheels
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Again I stand by what I said before Afterworld may have a few points that are a bit sandboxy but lack a lot of stuff to make it a full sandbox style game.
It doesn't meet most of the others what so ever it only has a few other points the map is NOT one giant map it is a bunch of smaller maps as well which you move betweeen. Nor do I believe that you are right when you said the size before either as I said they are all SMALLER maps which you move between NOT one giant map again doesn't fit the criteria you have checked things off that do NOT meet. As far as I am concerned Afterworld is NOT a full sandbox game and I stand by that now please just stop posting you obviously do not know what you are talking about!
I think if they just reskinned the graphics and touched it up a bit that game could see a lot of new players. I have given up on playing an MMO with any real depth that has decent graphics though. I figured it out a longtime ago. You can have shiny and shallow, or dated and in depth.
They've even added a ultra hardcore mode called Scavenger that removes all money from the game, and your gang can starve to death.
This is the game I consistently find myself going back to when other MMO's let me down.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Should add Linkrealms to that list, I know it is not fully released yet, but anyone can create an account, download the game and log right in... Also perhaps Second Life can be considered a Sandbox MMORPG, but really it is a simulator in many ways, more than one.. I don't see APB - Reloaded on the list either..
Doh, thanks for the replies.
@Razeekster: I didn't play Mabinogi or Free Realms, both games are on the list because posters suggested them and from what I've seen on their official websites and their forums they might fit the bill. I'll have a second look at them, thanks to Loktofeit for already posting about Free Realms.
@Darkshad: Likewise, I didn't play Afterworld or Fallen Earth. In the case of Afterworld it seems to me that you criticize the quality of how the features are implemented more than that you say the features aren't there. Well, for this list, quality doesn't really matter, frankly, I would know a few games more that are on the list where I personally think that they're not good games - but, they're listed here because they have the feature, my personal taste doesn't matter.
I will have to look into Fallen Earth, whether this patch 2.4 changed things around.
[Edit: completely forgot to thank you for the suggestion concerning swgemu. I had not listed SWG because it's no longer active, but in a way it still is, unofficially. Frankly, I don't know yet how to deal with that, I'll have to think that over.]
@Loktofeit: Thanks for the support and your opinion, much appreciated.
@MadnessRealm: Thanks for your post and the information about Mabinogi, makes it much easier for me to judge a game I've never played.
@TruthXhurts: Thanks for the suggestion about Darkwind: War on Wheels, I didn't even know the game, I will have a look at it in the coming days.
@Reizla: Likewise, I will look at Silkroad, could you please use the feature list from the OP as well? As you've seen, it makes it much easier to initially decide whether a game should be put on the list here. Thanks in advance.
@eGumball: Oh, dear, was only a matter of time I guess until someone would suggest GW2. Anyway, could you please use the feature list from the OP as well and list the GW2 features so that we can see whether it ticks the boxes? Thanks in advance.
@Eyrothath: Linkrealms has been suggested before, but according to Linkrealms own website it is in closed beta. Sometimes they seem to accept new players, sometimes they don't. Right now it reads: "New Beta Account Status: BY APPLICATION".
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
I have decided to exclude unofficial servers and emulators from this list.
Reason:
This List of Sandbox MMORPGs is hosted here in the forums at MMORPG.com. And as long as it is hosted here we will have to follow the Rules of Conduct the staff here at MMORPG.com has set out. Amongst these rules are:
Therefore unofficial servers or emulators cannot appear on this List of Sandbox MMORPGs.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
Time for an update. There have recently been some posts both challenging games that are on the list and suggesting new games for the list.
Some decisions have been made, some others are still open to discussion.
Afterworld will stay on the list until I had a chance to look into the game. I understand that both features and the quality of the features are in question. Sadly, if quality would count for this list I would have to remove more than one game. Features count for this list, not necessarily how good the features are implemented. I'll have a look at the features and will report back in a few days.
Darkwind: War of Wheels, a very interesting suggestion. Is it an RPG? There is no such thing as a player character in Darkwind because the player controls multiple characters that are hired to form a team - and the player is the one controlling the team. There's also the fact that all combat happens in instanced areas and arenas, I hope I got that right. I think about the game much more like an online real time strategy wargame than an RPG. Much of the gameplay beside combat doesn't even happen in a gameworld but on a website. Any comments?
Fallen Earth will stay on the list until I had a chance to look into the game more. I understand a recent patch has changed the importance of crafting, especially for F2P-players, and according to posts on the FE forums many of those have left. I think the feature is still present however, likewise there's territorial control in the game: I will look into it but I tend to keep it on the list.
Free Realms will stay on the list. Thanks to Loktofeit for providing the input in post 154.
Guild Wars 2 will not be listed, the game does not meet the criteria as stated in the OP.
Mabinogi will stay on the list. Thanks to MadnessRealm (post 158) and to Draron (in post 169) for providing the input.
Silkroad Online will not be listed, the game does not meet the criteria as stated in the OP.
Thanks, OP out.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
LARSA the Gatekeeper of the Sandbox! You rock thanks for this thread. Its hard to find info on sandbox games.
I was wondering if you would put DayZ on the list. Its a MMOFPS that has no levels, and no skills, its a gear and shooting skill based game, where you have to find gear and weapons in a 250 sqkm map based on Russia. There is permadeath, player looting, you can find and fix vehicles and use them (cars, trucks, bicycles, helicopters, etc.). It has realistic survival mechanics. In other words you must eat when your hungry, drink when your thirsty, build a fire and warm up when you get cold, find medicine if you get sick or have a friend give you a blood transfusion when your low on blood. You can change the world around you (although a bit limited atm) by building sandbag walls and barbed wire fences as protection. Here is a link: http://dayzmod.com/
There have been two new suggestions of games to put on the List of Sandbox MMORPGs:
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Cristina, thanks for the suggestion. I played PotBS myself (before the switch to F2P) and very much enjoyed my time in the game (about half a year). But it certainly isn't a sandbox. It's not the run-of-the-mill themepark, but a sandbox it isn't.
Here's the sandbox feature list from my original post (red for PotBS doesn't meet the requirements, green for meets the requirements):
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
LOVE is most definately a sandbox MMORPG. http://www.quelsolaar.com/
Also most MMORPG's that use levels as a means of progression are Theme parks. It's Not always the case but 90% of MMORPG's that I've played that had leveling systems where the "end-game" was eternal PVP have been theme parks.
Also Minecraft sort of DOES qualify as an MMORPG because if you have a server with enough hardware you can host well over 500 players. I've seen some servers hosting 6500+ players with multiple servers acting as world "shards". And some even go so far as to charge a subscription fee ( for server maitnence reasons).
As for it not being an RPG is also bollocks because it has a lot of RPG elements. You CAN improve your character through enchanted armor, tools and weapons And there is a working potion system. It also has NPC's you can buy stff from as well as combat with monsters and other players depending how the server is set up.
Sure it has a singleplayer component but it's actually a local server. You can even open up a singleplayer game to the public on a LAN and it becomes a multiplayer game.
So is Minecraft an MMORPG? The answer is both Yes and No.