Wow, every one of these threads are all the same, and ive posted many many times in each one and still the same argument. Siege weapon argument is null and void....they drop in the world, for free. Basing your entire P2W argument on siege weapons in WvW is making you look ignorant. In 3 hours of WvW playing with the same 2 friends, the 3 of us looted 2 rams, an arrow cart, 3 catapults and a trebuche. So here maybe it will sink in this time.
SIEGE WEAPONS DROP FROM MOBS FOR FREE, THEY DO NOT REQUIRE A TON OF GOLD, AND SAYING THAT THEY WILL TURN THE TIDE AND MAKE THE GAME PAY TO WIN MAKES YOU LOOK IGNORANT. PLAY THE GAME AND STOP JUMPING ON THE BANDWAGON, THE PERSON YOU ARE FOLLOWING IS FEEDING YOU MISINFORMATION AND ITS WORKING. BUYING GOLD FOR GEMS WITH REAL MONEY WILL NOT GIVE YOU ANY ADVANTAGE WHATSOEVER IN ANY AREA OF THE GAME, PVE, PVP OR WVW. JUST STOP ALREADY.
Can any of you babies tell me how you win GW 2 by buying stupid boosts from the shop? Do you win when you hit max level faster? Do you win because you have something before other people? Explain the mentality behind this "win" idea people are getting from the shop. Go back to Bloons TD.
Ok I'll try to explain it to you. Some games, such as GW2 have something called PvP (player versus player). In PvP, individuals and groups fight one another when an individual or group is defeated the other individual or group 'wins'. Pay-to-win refers to a situation where an individual or group uses real world money to buy a [significant] advantage so that they are [significantly] more likely to win. If you have any other questions I'd be glad to help.
Fixed that for you. Many games, including AAA games, have cash shop items that increase the chance of success but it is a marginal amount. You must have a qualifiers on the amount of advantage gained and the signifigance to the game of the advantage.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
I think that saying it is P2W goes too far. But they let you buy yourselves into the economy though. Cash shop items/services will always be in demand so players will want to buy them, I will have to wait to see how much negative influence this will have on the economy. Players that buy gold don't care about ingame trade prices.
Arenanet's argument that selling gems doesn't create gold is besides the point. The question is how much extra gold will be farmed because players see interesting stuff in the cash shop and want to buy gems with the gold? Gold that doesn't leave the economy when traded for gems.
I will be buying gems for my group, then that group will be randomly putting holes into keeps across the three maps.
Daoc ninja keep takes ..... are back.
I'll be the one buying your gems and using the siege equipment your group puts down.
people still think you buy gems off each other....?
Yes. Because you can buy someone's gems for gold in game.
No, you can't actually. That's not how it works.
Yeah, I know how it works. I bought 150 gems at the end to check out the system in place and I bought a key with it.
My point is that if he were on my server, I think it would be great that he bought gems an sold them for gold while I buy gems with my gold and use his sieges.
At least in WvW, anyone seen how much siege weapons do? They keep you from the instakill zone around the gates that take like 10 minutes literally of you and a group spamming normal attacks. They did more damage I do by far and if it's not the ram, you can just lob your attacks from safety. Also, the link shows you can buy influence but it doesn't show the more damaging stuff you can do with influence, which is the WvW guild buffs bought with influence. Lastly for WvW, the commander position helps herd all of the people, especially when you can place markers and you get your own channel and the icon over your head. You have to pay lots of gold for that?
Should really add that some of the cash shop items still bug me too. Ex: they buffed the magic find boost item to 50% increased rare drop rate, the perfect salvage kit is better than all of the kits you can buy in the game, and they added repairing annoyance to the game but hey, you can just insta buy and use the instant repair canister anywhere except dungeons! Oh yeah, and you get 5 bag slots by default but if you can only get 2 more bag slots by buying them in the cash shop.
eather way,i think people are overreacting to the cash shop now that i think about it.in previous mmos ive played they've actually had gear and weapons you could buy with real money.but the funny part is,it always made me enjoy killing them even more because they wasted there money and still get owned by the people who didnt pay money for good gear and weapons
Pay2Win means you can literally buy an advantage that other non-paying players cannot obtain. Seeing how everything in that store provides either no advantage or is obtainable by non-paying players, it isn't p2w. An xp boost is not an unattainable advantage as it will just take non-paying customers a few more minutes to level. Buying gold with gems isn't an advantage as gold is easily obtained by non-paying players. With the amount of people involved in WvWvW, there will be more siege weapons than supply to build them, especially once things get organized and siegers know to cut off supply objectives while sieging.
I don't, and I still think Anet has stood by their word that anything in the cash shop is optional. Sure there are some things that are going to be bought for convenience like the various boosts, but that has zero affect on other players inside their system. I will say should there be a way to exploit the WvWvW in some way as others have theorized, Anet will most likely do something about it.
As much as the cash shop, as it stands, doesn't bother me, I am sure they wouldn't want to deal with the customer backlash over P2W items should the CS turn out to be that way. As it is right now people just play semantics to make the system sound like it is to support their views. Sure there are going to be those that refuse to touch the title while it has a CS at all (funny because the MMO some are currently playing has one in it as well). Everything I see in the CS is still convinience and gives no unfair advantages to anyone. Time will tell if it remains that way.
At least in WvW, anyone seen how much siege weapons do? They keep you from the instakill zone around the gates that take like 10 minutes literally of you and a group spamming normal attacks. They did more damage I do by far and if it's not the ram, you can just lob your attacks from safety. Also, the link shows you can buy influence but it doesn't show the more damaging stuff you can do with influence, which is the WvW guild buffs bought with influence. Lastly for WvW, the commander position helps herd all of the people, especially when you can place markers and you get your own channel and the icon over your head. You have to pay lots of gold for that?
The solution offered is the removal of gold as a requirement for uprgrades in WvWvW.
I actually suggested this to in my beta feedback thread (don't feel like digging it up). I don't understand why they didn't make it use a PvP currency.
While I would agree that the cash shop could be buy-to-win, the way they have it established (at least in the first BWE) leads me to believe that it won't be as bad as people are trying to make it out to be.
If you could not get the gems with in-game currency (such as if you had to buy them with money), then it would be unfair. However, the currency exchange is very fair and allows people to take advantage of the things the gems offer without having to pay money to get them.
Yes, however, it's true that with a lot of money someone can buy everything that they want in-terms of gold, but I am okay with that. If people want to pour more money into the game then they can have at it, it'll only help the development of the game.
I mean gems still aren't buy to win, but I just want to know before I elaborate lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Can any of you babies tell me how you win GW 2 by buying stupid boosts from the shop? Do you win when you hit max level faster? Do you win because you have something before other people? Explain the mentality behind this "win" idea people are getting from the shop. Go back to Bloons TD.
Ok I'll try to explain it to you. Some games, such as GW2 have something called PvP (player versus player). In PvP, individuals and groups fight one another when an individual or group is defeated the other individual or group 'wins'. Pay-to-win refers to a situation where an individual or group uses real world money to buy an advantage so that they are more likely to win. If you have any other questions I'd be glad to help.
I know what pay to win means. I was being facetious. People win PvP because of skill, not little boosts. I don't care how much people pay for crap to help them win, if they're bad players, they'll lose no matter how much crap they buy. The stuff offered by Anet isn't OP for PvP. I've yet to see people with the smarts to dodge and avoid damage get thoroughly owned. I believe winning is up to the person sitting at the keyboard. Thanks for the reply but I was trying to use sarcasm. I get tired of skimming the forums and see people crying about stuff that is most likely going to change and blaming others for their lack of skill. Good day.
No, I don't. Even with 2000 free gems for the weekend, I didn't find the cash shop buffs worth a purchase. They are a non-issue.
Cash shop lock box keys? I got almost as many keys in game as I got boxes and the items in the boxes were mostly one shot, modest buffs. Plus, I can buy keys on the Marketplace and can sell boxes there too, which, depending on the prices people are willing to pay, may be the best bet anyway. Not an issue.
Gems for Gold? Gems don't create new gold. There is an in game currency market with pricing based on supply/demand. For me to buy gems with $$$ and sell gems for gold, someone in game needs to be willing to buy my gems. If there is excess gold in the economy to spend on gems, why am I so in need of gold that I need to spend $$$ to exchange gems for gold? I still firmly believe that most gems sold on the marketplace will be "left over" gems after someone buys a basket of gems in excess of the cost of what ever account upgrade they are buying. If people with deep pockets want to buy gems specifically for trading them for gold? Great, now I can trade my excess gold for gems, so I can upgrade my account with out spending $$$. Why do people forget that the trade works both ways? It's huge to be able to trade yiur excess gold for account upgrades that would normally cost you cash. Really guys, not an issue.
The truth is that you can play the game and enjoy it with out ever touching a cash shop purchase.
Now, yes, some of the account upgrades, like bag slots and bank space are very valuable. They are not necassary, espescially when you remember how easy it is to travel to vendors to sell stuff or to your bank to store stuff, but most people who really get into the game will probably want to eventually buy some upgrades here. However, the game is Buy to Play, while offering a cash shop as part of the business model, which has been known right from the start. One thing the beta weekend proved was that in spite of being Buy to Play, the game is not short on world space, game play or content; rather it's one of the most feature and content rich MMORPGs ver released. No one should resent that the game offers some worth while account upgrades, at very reasonable prices, in order to suport the Buy to Play business model!
None of the Cash Shop items even come close to "Pay to Win". If Gems for Gold were "Pay to Win", then every game with illicit RMT gold sellers must be Buy to Win, right? GW2 goes out of it's way to make sure that Gold =/= Win and that gold sellers will have a rough go at their trade, so, once again, not an issue.
Do us all a favor: Stop beating that poor, dead horse. We get it. Some people think the CS is Pay2Win. Others don't. If you think it is, don't play. If you're not going to play, why bother complaining about it? If you think we're a bunch of fools soon to be parted with our money, please, stop trying to save us from our foolishness.
Thanks, bye.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
During WvW I got a trebuchet as a drop off a dolyak, one of only three dolyaks I managed to kill (did a lot more PvE this time). Nerf dolyaks?
The guild buffs only apply in the immediate vicinity of the structure you're currently holding. They're not even map wide. See that trebuchet I got for free? When your walls are in rubble I'll be giggling at your buffs.
It's been a while since I played WoW last time but my Rift account expired not long ago. So, in Rift if you're an active player and you have a L50 character you'll receive at least one plat spam letter every day. So what, you might ask, how far can plat get me in a P2P game? Let's see. Plat can buy you crafted epic gear with stats on par with low grade raid gear. Raid progression in Rift is very strict - you just can't ding 50 and go to T3 in your quest greens, you won't be able to hit mobs at all. Skipping the lowest raid tiers is a nice thing because they're the most boring and the least rewarding. Plat buys you exactly that. All enchants (runes) and consumables are tradeable so plat can buy you them as well. And here's the real kicker - GDKP. I'm not sure if people pugged HK (top tier 20-man raid) in 1.7 with GDKP but they sure did that with RotP (top tier 10 man). So plat can even buy you some top tier gear. At this point you can apply for any raid guild and if you're not completely hopeless you'll get your relics quite soon.
Rift is a P2P game. But you can buy plat there if you really want to and it will significantly cut your time investments especially if you are a newcomer.
Is Rift pay2win?
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Comments
Wow, every one of these threads are all the same, and ive posted many many times in each one and still the same argument. Siege weapon argument is null and void....they drop in the world, for free. Basing your entire P2W argument on siege weapons in WvW is making you look ignorant. In 3 hours of WvW playing with the same 2 friends, the 3 of us looted 2 rams, an arrow cart, 3 catapults and a trebuche. So here maybe it will sink in this time.
SIEGE WEAPONS DROP FROM MOBS FOR FREE, THEY DO NOT REQUIRE A TON OF GOLD, AND SAYING THAT THEY WILL TURN THE TIDE AND MAKE THE GAME PAY TO WIN MAKES YOU LOOK IGNORANT. PLAY THE GAME AND STOP JUMPING ON THE BANDWAGON, THE PERSON YOU ARE FOLLOWING IS FEEDING YOU MISINFORMATION AND ITS WORKING. BUYING GOLD FOR GEMS WITH REAL MONEY WILL NOT GIVE YOU ANY ADVANTAGE WHATSOEVER IN ANY AREA OF THE GAME, PVE, PVP OR WVW. JUST STOP ALREADY.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
I'll be the one buying your gems and using the siege equipment your group puts down.
Fixed that for you. Many games, including AAA games, have cash shop items that increase the chance of success but it is a marginal amount. You must have a qualifiers on the amount of advantage gained and the signifigance to the game of the advantage.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
people still think you buy gems off each other....?
Yes. Because you can buy someone's gems for gold in game.
Edit: Oh, you think I was sepcifically talking about buying HIS gems. I just meant that I would buy gems on the market and then use his sieges.
Doesn't matter. Saw your edit
I think that saying it is P2W goes too far. But they let you buy yourselves into the economy though. Cash shop items/services will always be in demand so players will want to buy them, I will have to wait to see how much negative influence this will have on the economy. Players that buy gold don't care about ingame trade prices.
Arenanet's argument that selling gems doesn't create gold is besides the point. The question is how much extra gold will be farmed because players see interesting stuff in the cash shop and want to buy gems with the gold? Gold that doesn't leave the economy when traded for gems.
Yeah, I know how it works. I bought 150 gems at the end to check out the system in place and I bought a key with it.
My point is that if he were on my server, I think it would be great that he bought gems an sold them for gold while I buy gems with my gold and use his sieges.
Doesn't seem very fair for him honestly.
eather way,i think people are overreacting to the cash shop now that i think about it.in previous mmos ive played they've actually had gear and weapons you could buy with real money.but the funny part is,it always made me enjoy killing them even more because they wasted there money and still get owned by the people who didnt pay money for good gear and weapons
Pay2Win means you can literally buy an advantage that other non-paying players cannot obtain. Seeing how everything in that store provides either no advantage or is obtainable by non-paying players, it isn't p2w. An xp boost is not an unattainable advantage as it will just take non-paying customers a few more minutes to level. Buying gold with gems isn't an advantage as gold is easily obtained by non-paying players. With the amount of people involved in WvWvW, there will be more siege weapons than supply to build them, especially once things get organized and siegers know to cut off supply objectives while sieging.
I don't, and I still think Anet has stood by their word that anything in the cash shop is optional. Sure there are some things that are going to be bought for convenience like the various boosts, but that has zero affect on other players inside their system. I will say should there be a way to exploit the WvWvW in some way as others have theorized, Anet will most likely do something about it.
As much as the cash shop, as it stands, doesn't bother me, I am sure they wouldn't want to deal with the customer backlash over P2W items should the CS turn out to be that way. As it is right now people just play semantics to make the system sound like it is to support their views. Sure there are going to be those that refuse to touch the title while it has a CS at all (funny because the MMO some are currently playing has one in it as well). Everything I see in the CS is still convinience and gives no unfair advantages to anyone. Time will tell if it remains that way.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
I actually suggested this to in my beta feedback thread (don't feel like digging it up). I don't understand why they didn't make it use a PvP currency.
While I would agree that the cash shop could be buy-to-win, the way they have it established (at least in the first BWE) leads me to believe that it won't be as bad as people are trying to make it out to be.
If you could not get the gems with in-game currency (such as if you had to buy them with money), then it would be unfair. However, the currency exchange is very fair and allows people to take advantage of the things the gems offer without having to pay money to get them.
Yes, however, it's true that with a lot of money someone can buy everything that they want in-terms of gold, but I am okay with that. If people want to pour more money into the game then they can have at it, it'll only help the development of the game.
Is this a concern stated as fact?
I mean gems still aren't buy to win, but I just want to know before I elaborate lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I know what pay to win means. I was being facetious. People win PvP because of skill, not little boosts. I don't care how much people pay for crap to help them win, if they're bad players, they'll lose no matter how much crap they buy. The stuff offered by Anet isn't OP for PvP. I've yet to see people with the smarts to dodge and avoid damage get thoroughly owned. I believe winning is up to the person sitting at the keyboard. Thanks for the reply but I was trying to use sarcasm. I get tired of skimming the forums and see people crying about stuff that is most likely going to change and blaming others for their lack of skill. Good day.
Do I think Gems are Buy to Win?
No, I don't. Even with 2000 free gems for the weekend, I didn't find the cash shop buffs worth a purchase. They are a non-issue.
Cash shop lock box keys? I got almost as many keys in game as I got boxes and the items in the boxes were mostly one shot, modest buffs. Plus, I can buy keys on the Marketplace and can sell boxes there too, which, depending on the prices people are willing to pay, may be the best bet anyway. Not an issue.
Gems for Gold? Gems don't create new gold. There is an in game currency market with pricing based on supply/demand. For me to buy gems with $$$ and sell gems for gold, someone in game needs to be willing to buy my gems. If there is excess gold in the economy to spend on gems, why am I so in need of gold that I need to spend $$$ to exchange gems for gold? I still firmly believe that most gems sold on the marketplace will be "left over" gems after someone buys a basket of gems in excess of the cost of what ever account upgrade they are buying. If people with deep pockets want to buy gems specifically for trading them for gold? Great, now I can trade my excess gold for gems, so I can upgrade my account with out spending $$$. Why do people forget that the trade works both ways? It's huge to be able to trade yiur excess gold for account upgrades that would normally cost you cash. Really guys, not an issue.
The truth is that you can play the game and enjoy it with out ever touching a cash shop purchase.
Now, yes, some of the account upgrades, like bag slots and bank space are very valuable. They are not necassary, espescially when you remember how easy it is to travel to vendors to sell stuff or to your bank to store stuff, but most people who really get into the game will probably want to eventually buy some upgrades here. However, the game is Buy to Play, while offering a cash shop as part of the business model, which has been known right from the start. One thing the beta weekend proved was that in spite of being Buy to Play, the game is not short on world space, game play or content; rather it's one of the most feature and content rich MMORPGs ver released. No one should resent that the game offers some worth while account upgrades, at very reasonable prices, in order to suport the Buy to Play business model!
None of the Cash Shop items even come close to "Pay to Win". If Gems for Gold were "Pay to Win", then every game with illicit RMT gold sellers must be Buy to Win, right? GW2 goes out of it's way to make sure that Gold =/= Win and that gold sellers will have a rough go at their trade, so, once again, not an issue.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Do us all a favor: Stop beating that poor, dead horse. We get it. Some people think the CS is Pay2Win. Others don't. If you think it is, don't play. If you're not going to play, why bother complaining about it? If you think we're a bunch of fools soon to be parted with our money, please, stop trying to save us from our foolishness.
Thanks, bye.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
During WvW I got a trebuchet as a drop off a dolyak, one of only three dolyaks I managed to kill (did a lot more PvE this time). Nerf dolyaks?
The guild buffs only apply in the immediate vicinity of the structure you're currently holding. They're not even map wide. See that trebuchet I got for free? When your walls are in rubble I'll be giggling at your buffs.
Oderint, dum metuant.
It's been a while since I played WoW last time but my Rift account expired not long ago. So, in Rift if you're an active player and you have a L50 character you'll receive at least one plat spam letter every day. So what, you might ask, how far can plat get me in a P2P game? Let's see. Plat can buy you crafted epic gear with stats on par with low grade raid gear. Raid progression in Rift is very strict - you just can't ding 50 and go to T3 in your quest greens, you won't be able to hit mobs at all. Skipping the lowest raid tiers is a nice thing because they're the most boring and the least rewarding. Plat buys you exactly that. All enchants (runes) and consumables are tradeable so plat can buy you them as well. And here's the real kicker - GDKP. I'm not sure if people pugged HK (top tier 20-man raid) in 1.7 with GDKP but they sure did that with RotP (top tier 10 man). So plat can even buy you some top tier gear. At this point you can apply for any raid guild and if you're not completely hopeless you'll get your relics quite soon.
Rift is a P2P game. But you can buy plat there if you really want to and it will significantly cut your time investments especially if you are a newcomer.
Is Rift pay2win?
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?