Quality yes is probably more important, but I still need enough quantity to not make it feel like a grind. 2 very high quality "Dynamic events" (IE: Quests) that I repeat 10 times still feels like a grind, no matter how high quality they are. Obviously yes there are more than 2 events, but you get the idea. THere were definitely several levels where I was stuck repeating the same dynamic events. The biggest one for me was around level 17-18. I like to stick to one pathway through a game (to preserve replayability) so I was going forward in the human zone. I don't think it's much to ask to say you should be able to level with limited repetition while staying in your race's pathway. However at 17-18 I was in Kessex Hills and I had completed all the heart quests up to level 24. There were a group of 4 Dynamic Events (3 were attack/defend 3 locations all nearby each other, the fourth was escort one of those yaks) that were around my level. They just kept popping up. Always the same, either attakc or defend. If I went to the next area in the zone the DE's were much higher in level. But those 4 just weren't advancing my level that quickly. I probably repeated each one about 4 or 5 times. It was at that point the game felt like a total grind and I turned it off and lost probably about a day's worth of play time because I just couldn't bring myself to play the game again.
Now I know I'm unique in the way that I am VERY sensitive to a grind. As soon as a game feels at all repetitive I usually get bored and move on. I rarely subscribe to an MMO for more than a month. To be honest MMOs probably are just not for me, however I still love the idea and I basically try every single AAA MMO hoping that one eventually will hold my interest. The fact that I lost interest within 2 days doesn't bode well. Yes the dynamic events were fun, yes they were higher quality than most quests...but the number of them in the game during this weekend just wasn't enough FOR ME (not saying that is true for everyone) to hold my interest, without making me feel like I'm grinding through repetitive content. However, I will continue to participate in the weekends, provide feedback and continue to try the game out because I recognize that a beta is a work in process, and I'm sure they still have work to do on these zones, and perhaps they will create better or more interesting DE's. Perhaps I just got stuck in an area that wasn't "complete" yet, so I have to reserve my judgement. However it is something I'm worried about. The idea behind DE's is great, but 1 DE for every 15-20 "normal quests" just doesn't cut it for me, because that still means you are going to be repeating the DE content a lot compared to normal games where there are more than enough quests to do without repeating them.
Quality yes is probably more important, but I still need enough quantity to not make it feel like a grind. 2 very high quality "Dynamic events" (IE: Quests) that I repeat 10 times still feels like a grind, no matter how high quality they are. Obviously yes there are more than 2 events, but you get the idea. THere were definitely several levels where I was stuck repeating the same dynamic events. The biggest one for me was around level 17-18. I like to stick to one pathway through a game (to preserve replayability) so I was going forward in the human zone. I don't think it's much to ask to say you should be able to level with limited repetition while staying in your race's pathway. However at 17-18 I was in Kessex Hills and I had completed all the heart quests up to level 24. There were a group of 4 Dynamic Events (3 were attack/defend 3 locations all nearby each other, the fourth was escort one of those yaks) that were around my level. They just kept popping up. Always the same, either attakc or defend. If I went to the next area in the zone the DE's were much higher in level. But those 4 just weren't advancing my level that quickly. I probably repeated each one about 4 or 5 times. It was at that point the game felt like a total grind and I turned it off and lost probably about a day's worth of play time because I just couldn't bring myself to play the game again.
Now I know I'm unique in the way that I am VERY sensitive to a grind. As soon as a game feels at all repetitive I usually get bored and move on. I rarely subscribe to an MMO for more than a month. To be honest MMOs probably are just not for me, however I still love the idea and I basically try every single AAA MMO hoping that one eventually will hold my interest. The fact that I lost interest within 2 days doesn't bode well. Yes the dynamic events were fun, yes they were higher quality than most quests...but the number of them in the game during this weekend just wasn't enough FOR ME (not saying that is true for everyone) to hold my interest, without making me feel like I'm grinding through repetitive content. However, I will continue to participate in the weekends, provide feedback and continue to try the game out because I recognize that a beta is a work in process, and I'm sure they still have work to do on these zones, and perhaps they will create better or more interesting DE's. Perhaps I just got stuck in an area that wasn't "complete" yet, so I have to reserve my judgement. However it is something I'm worried about. The idea behind DE's is great, but 1 DE for every 15-20 "normal quests" just doesn't cut it for me, because that still means you are going to be repeating the DE content a lot compared to normal games where there are more than enough quests to do without repeating them.
Actually, I think that you are suppose to travel to other racial zones. That is why ArenaNet made travel so painless. Besides, you're gimping yourself on the skill points if you only stick to your racial zones, there's just not enough skill challenges if you only stay in your zone.
I believe that GW2 is much like the first game in this sense. When I played GW1, I always found myself fast traveling from one part of the world to the next. The game actually encouraged it, with various daily tasks and weekly events taking place in various locations around the world.
This is why I never got bored during the BWE. I made a charr and played in the charr zone for a bit. Got bored of the scenery (the ruins are a bit depressing), went to the human zones and had a blast. Most of Sunday I spent in the norn lands. The best part is that because of the way the game is set up, I could always return to the charr lands and pick up where I left off and not have to deal with trivial content because I outleveled it.
I've been saying this for a while: you have to forget some of your MMO habits when it comes to GW2. The game is a bit different and needs a slightly different approach if you want to fully experience it.
Quality yes is probably more important, but I still need enough quantity to not make it feel like a grind. 2 very high quality "Dynamic events" (IE: Quests) that I repeat 10 times still feels like a grind, no matter how high quality they are. Obviously yes there are more than 2 events, but you get the idea. THere were definitely several levels where I was stuck repeating the same dynamic events. The biggest one for me was around level 17-18. I like to stick to one pathway through a game (to preserve replayability) so I was going forward in the human zone. I don't think it's much to ask to say you should be able to level with limited repetition while staying in your race's pathway. However at 17-18 I was in Kessex Hills and I had completed all the heart quests up to level 24. There were a group of 4 Dynamic Events (3 were attack/defend 3 locations all nearby each other, the fourth was escort one of those yaks) that were around my level. They just kept popping up. Always the same, either attakc or defend. If I went to the next area in the zone the DE's were much higher in level. But those 4 just weren't advancing my level that quickly. I probably repeated each one about 4 or 5 times. It was at that point the game felt like a total grind and I turned it off and lost probably about a day's worth of play time because I just couldn't bring myself to play the game again.
Now I know I'm unique in the way that I am VERY sensitive to a grind. As soon as a game feels at all repetitive I usually get bored and move on. I rarely subscribe to an MMO for more than a month. To be honest MMOs probably are just not for me, however I still love the idea and I basically try every single AAA MMO hoping that one eventually will hold my interest. The fact that I lost interest within 2 days doesn't bode well. Yes the dynamic events were fun, yes they were higher quality than most quests...but the number of them in the game during this weekend just wasn't enough FOR ME (not saying that is true for everyone) to hold my interest, without making me feel like I'm grinding through repetitive content. However, I will continue to participate in the weekends, provide feedback and continue to try the game out because I recognize that a beta is a work in process, and I'm sure they still have work to do on these zones, and perhaps they will create better or more interesting DE's. Perhaps I just got stuck in an area that wasn't "complete" yet, so I have to reserve my judgement. However it is something I'm worried about. The idea behind DE's is great, but 1 DE for every 15-20 "normal quests" just doesn't cut it for me, because that still means you are going to be repeating the DE content a lot compared to normal games where there are more than enough quests to do without repeating them.
Actually, I think that you are suppose to travel to other racial zones. That is why ArenaNet made travel so painless. Besides, you're gimping yourself on the skill points if you only stick to your racial zones, there's just not enough skill challenges if you only stay in your zone.
I believe that GW2 is much like the first game in this sense. When I played GW1, I always found myself fast traveling from one part of the world to the next. The game actually encouraged it, with various daily tasks and weekly events taking place in various locations around the world.
This is why I never got bored during the BWE. I made a charr and played in the charr zone for a bit. Got bored of the scenery (the ruins are a bit depressing), went to the human zones and had a blast. Most of Sunday I spent in the norn lands. The best part is that because of the way the game is set up, I could always return to the charr lands and pick up where I left off and not have to deal with trivial content because I outleveled it.
I've been saying this for a while: you have to forget some of your MMO habits when it comes to GW2. The game is a bit different and needs a slightly different approach if you want to fully experience it.
I definitely see your point. I actually ended up logging back in later and switching to the Norn area which was quite cool.
However, if that is the case then my fears are just replaced with a different fear. If I'm expected to go through the content in multiple zones for each level group just to advance, what does that do for replayability? If I'm going to 2 or 3 on level zones per character...that leaves about 2 characters worth of content. I still found myself in the Norn zone repeating dynamic events after already completing the human zone. I wouldn't say I was leveling too slowly either, I thought the pace of leveling was just fine...I just felt there wasn't enough content. However I do think (at least hope) that they continue to add dynamice vents and content during beta right now.
I definitely see your point. I actually ended up logging back in later and switching to the Norn area which was quite cool.
However, if that is the case then my fears are just replaced with a different fear. If I'm expected to go through the content in multiple zones for each level group just to advance, what does that do for replayability? If I'm going to 2 or 3 on level zones per character...that leaves about 2 characters worth of content. I still found myself in the Norn zone repeating dynamic events after already completing the human zone. I wouldn't say I was leveling too slowly either, I thought the pace of leveling was just fine...I just felt there wasn't enough content. However I do think (at least hope) that they continue to add dynamice vents and content during beta right now.
Consider that there are a lot more ways to get XP besides just PvE. Every time you gather from a node, you get XP. Every time you craft something, you get XP. WvW PvP gives you XP. Consider also that exploration gives you a large chunk of XP and the skill points you get from other zones are vital to your character's development. The game is really about exploration. You're not really suppose to grind DEs like you would quests. You're suppose to explore the world and participate in the DEs as they happen around you. There is also a lot of hidden events and encounters around the world.
I think that the issue is with how people approach this game. If you approach this game like you would your average MMO, you'll get bored quick. The emphasis in GW2 is on exploration, not merely quest grinding and leveling up like in other games. There is a lot of hidden stuff in GW2 that you will miss if you're just going to rush to the next level and the next zone. For example, there is a ghost mystery in the cemetary right outside of Divinity's Reach that I was trying to figure out for like an hour but couldn't. I'll get it during the next BWE though. There is an NPC in Lion's Arch who leads you to the hideout of the Order of Whispers if you follow him.
Basically, forget what you're used to in other MMOs. Forget about the max level, there is no endgame to rush to. Explore and you will have a great time!
I definitely see your point. I actually ended up logging back in later and switching to the Norn area which was quite cool.
However, if that is the case then my fears are just replaced with a different fear. If I'm expected to go through the content in multiple zones for each level group just to advance, what does that do for replayability? If I'm going to 2 or 3 on level zones per character...that leaves about 2 characters worth of content. I still found myself in the Norn zone repeating dynamic events after already completing the human zone. I wouldn't say I was leveling too slowly either, I thought the pace of leveling was just fine...I just felt there wasn't enough content. However I do think (at least hope) that they continue to add dynamice vents and content during beta right now.
Consider that there are a lot more ways to get XP besides just PvE. Every time you gather from a node, you get XP. Every time you craft something, you get XP. WvW PvP gives you XP. Consider also that exploration gives you a large chunk of XP and the skill points you get from other zones are vital to your character's development. The game is really about exploration. You're not really suppose to grind DEs like you would quests. You're suppose to explore the world and participate in the DEs as they happen around you. There is also a lot of hidden events and encounters around the world.
I think that the issue is with how people approach this game. If you approach this game like you would your average MMO, you'll get bored quick. The emphasis in GW2 is on exploration, not merely quest grinding and leveling up like in other games. There is a lot of hidden stuff in GW2 that you will miss if you're just going to rush to the next level and the next zone. For example, there is a ghost mystery in the cemetary right outside of Divinity's Reach that I was trying to figure out for like an hour but couldn't. I'll get it during the next BWE though. There is an NPC in Lion's Arch who leads you to the hideout of the Order of Whispers if you follow him.
Basically, forget what you're used to in other MMOs. Forget about the max level, there is no endgame to rush to. Explore and you will have a great time!
Yes I understand all those lofty statements of "Forget what you know" "This is so different" etc... I'm just stating my experience.
I had 100% completion on Queensdale and Divinity's Reach (Well near 100% in queensdale, that one skill point in beetletun was bugged). I was level 17 and I had all heart quests completedin kessex hills up to level 24. I didn't really want to PVP on that character. I personally wanted to continue to play in the human area but in order to do that it required repeating the same "dynamic" events multiple times to level (that or just kill random enemies). Yes maybe if I wandered around and "explored" more I would have stumbled across something that would have given me experience...but in terms of their "Dynamic Event" system...unless I switched zones I was stuck grinding them to level. I personally, in my experience, felt that was a problem. I just don't think they had enough dynamic events, at least in kessex hills around that level. That's not a game-breaking mechanical issue with the game, it's just a lack of content. I really enjoyed playing the game, I enjoyed having those different ways to playing the game...however I still felt the game was lacking content. It replaced the dozens of quests per quest hub in a normal MMO with a handful of DEs and for me that just didn't cut it. I felt like too many times I was left with no "goal" to strive towards, no new objective (except for repeating old objectives).
The dynamic event system was fun but to be honest in the first 20 levels of this game I repeated more content then I think I have ever repeated in the first 20 levels of ANY mmo. Was the content high quality? Yes, but I still repeated it multiple times. I still think that is a weakness.
you repeat content because you want. key in this game is explore isnt stay in a zone and do the samething over and over again. i dont even see the point stay in a place and dont explore, i explore lot of content and i just repeat some DE just because i want and were fun, not because i must and didnt have more option.
you have so many options in this game that is almost insane
DE in low zone lvl are just spaming and are almost the same, if you just have explore more you could see how this is much diferent on high lvl zones (and much harder and fun)
you repeat content because you want. key in this game is explore isnt stay in a zone and do the samething over and over again. i dont even see the point stay in a place and dont explore, i explore lot of content and i just repeat some DE just because i want and were fun, not because i must and didnt have more option.
you have so many options in this game that is almost insane
DE in low zone lvl are just spaming and are almost the same, if you just have explore more you could see how this is much diferent on high lvl zones (and much harder and fun)
While I admit I initially did not change racial areas (and I still maintain we shouldn't have to...if I'm human I shouldn't need to go quest with a bunch of charr just to have enough content), within one racial area I did plenty of exploring. Like I said I was 100% on divinity's reach, queensdale (and also lion's arch...that city is awesome). I was in Kessex Hills and I had explored up to content for level 22-24 and I was level 17. The DE's for the higher levels were getting too difficult so I got stuck in a rotation of 4 DE's that just repeated over and over again with no real dynamism to them (Yay we retook the town with the mine! I wonder what's going to happen? Oh wow, we have to defend it!...rinse and repeat). Maybe that is just a very unique hole in the progression in the game that needs filling...but in that moment the game suddenly revealed itself as not very dynamic, and instead as just very repetitive.
EDIT: Also. Just like how past games shouldn't tell you how to play, this game shouldn't do that either. The key shouldn't be to "explore", what if a player isn't an explorer? Not everyone likes wandering around trying to find content...some people have limited time and want to know where to go to find new content. I personally like to explore, and I did plenty of it...but sometimes I also wanted to work on leveling my character because I was only there for a weekend....and when I really wanted to level my character sometimes it was difficult to find new content to do.
The other example that sticks with me is when I did go "exploring" in Snowden Drifts in the Norn area. I ran into a DE early on in the zone to help some soldiers...that led to like a 2 or 3 event chain until eventually they all walked off with their cart. I thought "Cool, this is going to turn into something neat". They actually just walked to a town and disappeared, with one of them becoming a merchant. At that point I set out to "explore" the zone...yes I got xp exploring but for a good 15-20 minutes I didn't encounter a single dynamic event...without normal quests I was essentially stuck just grinding out those heart quests for "content"...no dynamic events were popping up. Great, the system is dynamic that makes it exciting...but it can also make it kind of boring if in the moment you want to do something there is nothing to be done.
I definitely see your point. I actually ended up logging back in later and switching to the Norn area which was quite cool.
However, if that is the case then my fears are just replaced with a different fear. If I'm expected to go through the content in multiple zones for each level group just to advance, what does that do for replayability? If I'm going to 2 or 3 on level zones per character...that leaves about 2 characters worth of content. I still found myself in the Norn zone repeating dynamic events after already completing the human zone. I wouldn't say I was leveling too slowly either, I thought the pace of leveling was just fine...I just felt there wasn't enough content. However I do think (at least hope) that they continue to add dynamice vents and content during beta right now.
Consider that there are a lot more ways to get XP besides just PvE. Every time you gather from a node, you get XP. Every time you craft something, you get XP. WvW PvP gives you XP. Consider also that exploration gives you a large chunk of XP and the skill points you get from other zones are vital to your character's development. The game is really about exploration. You're not really suppose to grind DEs like you would quests. You're suppose to explore the world and participate in the DEs as they happen around you. There is also a lot of hidden events and encounters around the world.
I think that the issue is with how people approach this game. If you approach this game like you would your average MMO, you'll get bored quick. The emphasis in GW2 is on exploration, not merely quest grinding and leveling up like in other games. There is a lot of hidden stuff in GW2 that you will miss if you're just going to rush to the next level and the next zone. For example, there is a ghost mystery in the cemetary right outside of Divinity's Reach that I was trying to figure out for like an hour but couldn't. I'll get it during the next BWE though. There is an NPC in Lion's Arch who leads you to the hideout of the Order of Whispers if you follow him.
Basically, forget what you're used to in other MMOs. Forget about the max level, there is no endgame to rush to. Explore and you will have a great time!
Yes I understand all those lofty statements of "Forget what you know" "This is so different" etc... I'm just stating my experience.
I had 100% completion on Queensdale and Divinity's Reach (Well near 100% in queensdale, that one skill point in beetletun was bugged). I was level 17 and I had all heart quests completedin kessex hills up to level 24. I didn't really want to PVP on that character. I personally wanted to continue to play in the human area but in order to do that it required repeating the same "dynamic" events multiple times to level (that or just kill random enemies). Yes maybe if I wandered around and "explored" more I would have stumbled across something that would have given me experience...but in terms of their "Dynamic Event" system...unless I switched zones I was stuck grinding them to level. I personally, in my experience, felt that was a problem. I just don't think they had enough dynamic events, at least in kessex hills around that level. That's not a game-breaking mechanical issue with the game, it's just a lack of content. I really enjoyed playing the game, I enjoyed having those different ways to playing the game...however I still felt the game was lacking content. It replaced the dozens of quests per quest hub in a normal MMO with a handful of DEs and for me that just didn't cut it. I felt like too many times I was left with no "goal" to strive towards, no new objective (except for repeating old objectives).
The dynamic event system was fun but to be honest in the first 20 levels of this game I repeated more content then I think I have ever repeated in the first 20 levels of ANY mmo. Was the content high quality? Yes, but I still repeated it multiple times. I still think that is a weakness.
That's the thing though. The game is not really lacking in content. You're just skipping some of it. You're focusing on doing DEs and hearts when there is other stuff to do.
I got one of my characters to level 17 and not once have I felt like I was repeating the content or grinding for that matter. I didn't participate in WvW with him nor did I do any crafting or gathering. Sure I've repeated a couple of DEs a few times, especially in the beginning, but once I realized that I can freely travel to other starting zones and the fact that there is a very rewarding hidden element to the game, I had a blast just exploring the game and trying to finding hidden content.
I still think that you're approaching this game from a more traditional standpoint and missing out on some of the fun. It is possible that there is a lack of DEs in higher zones, it's also possible that they aren't fully implemented yet. Remember this game is still in beta and some of the content is missing. It's possible that by the next BWE, or by release, ANet will add more DEs and/or adjust the XP rewards from existing DEs to make it more streamlined. Then again, it's also possible that they will not and what we see now is what we'll get later. It's beta, so we can't be sure either way.
I definitely see your point. I actually ended up logging back in later and switching to the Norn area which was quite cool.
However, if that is the case then my fears are just replaced with a different fear. If I'm expected to go through the content in multiple zones for each level group just to advance, what does that do for replayability? If I'm going to 2 or 3 on level zones per character...that leaves about 2 characters worth of content. I still found myself in the Norn zone repeating dynamic events after already completing the human zone. I wouldn't say I was leveling too slowly either, I thought the pace of leveling was just fine...I just felt there wasn't enough content. However I do think (at least hope) that they continue to add dynamice vents and content during beta right now.
Consider that there are a lot more ways to get XP besides just PvE. Every time you gather from a node, you get XP. Every time you craft something, you get XP. WvW PvP gives you XP. Consider also that exploration gives you a large chunk of XP and the skill points you get from other zones are vital to your character's development. The game is really about exploration. You're not really suppose to grind DEs like you would quests. You're suppose to explore the world and participate in the DEs as they happen around you. There is also a lot of hidden events and encounters around the world.
I think that the issue is with how people approach this game. If you approach this game like you would your average MMO, you'll get bored quick. The emphasis in GW2 is on exploration, not merely quest grinding and leveling up like in other games. There is a lot of hidden stuff in GW2 that you will miss if you're just going to rush to the next level and the next zone. For example, there is a ghost mystery in the cemetary right outside of Divinity's Reach that I was trying to figure out for like an hour but couldn't. I'll get it during the next BWE though. There is an NPC in Lion's Arch who leads you to the hideout of the Order of Whispers if you follow him.
Basically, forget what you're used to in other MMOs. Forget about the max level, there is no endgame to rush to. Explore and you will have a great time!
Yes I understand all those lofty statements of "Forget what you know" "This is so different" etc... I'm just stating my experience.
I had 100% completion on Queensdale and Divinity's Reach (Well near 100% in queensdale, that one skill point in beetletun was bugged). I was level 17 and I had all heart quests completedin kessex hills up to level 24. I didn't really want to PVP on that character. I personally wanted to continue to play in the human area but in order to do that it required repeating the same "dynamic" events multiple times to level (that or just kill random enemies). Yes maybe if I wandered around and "explored" more I would have stumbled across something that would have given me experience...but in terms of their "Dynamic Event" system...unless I switched zones I was stuck grinding them to level. I personally, in my experience, felt that was a problem. I just don't think they had enough dynamic events, at least in kessex hills around that level. That's not a game-breaking mechanical issue with the game, it's just a lack of content. I really enjoyed playing the game, I enjoyed having those different ways to playing the game...however I still felt the game was lacking content. It replaced the dozens of quests per quest hub in a normal MMO with a handful of DEs and for me that just didn't cut it. I felt like too many times I was left with no "goal" to strive towards, no new objective (except for repeating old objectives).
The dynamic event system was fun but to be honest in the first 20 levels of this game I repeated more content then I think I have ever repeated in the first 20 levels of ANY mmo. Was the content high quality? Yes, but I still repeated it multiple times. I still think that is a weakness.
That's the thing though. The game is not really lacking in content. You're just skipping some of it. You're focusing on doing DEs and hearts when there is other stuff to do.
I got one of my characters to level 17 and not once have I felt like I was repeating the content or grinding for that matter. I didn't participate in WvW with him nor did I do any crafting or gathering. Sure I've repeated a couple of DEs a few times, especially in the beginning, but once I realized that I can freely travel to other starting zones and the fact that there is a very rewarding hidden element to the game, I had a blast just exploring the game and trying to finding hidden content.
I still think that you're approaching this game from a more traditional standpoint and missing out on some of the fun. It is possible that there is a lack of DEs in higher zones, it's also possible that they aren't fully implemented yet. Remember this game is still in beta and some of the content is missing. It's possible that by the next BWE, or by release, ANet will add more DEs and/or adjust the XP rewards from existing DEs to make it more streamlined. Then again, it's also possible that they will not and what we see now is what we'll get later. It's beta, so we can't be sure either way.
...I really think you are assuming you know my play experience without actually knowing it. I did do WvW. I spent a few hours trying it out. I found the level progression to be painfully slow so I left. Like I already said I did plenty of exploring, I completed 3 zones (Two towns and Queensdale to 100%...well near 100% because of the bugged skill point). I had resource gathering tools and I mined...though I didn't craft but I shouldn't be forced to craft. I'm not really sure what else I should be doing?
People should be able to play the game how they like. I personally didn't want to travel to the charr or norn zones...my character was a human engineer and I wanted to stick around helping humans. I liked the whole defense against the centaur stuff...I didn't want to go help any norns and I especially didn't want to help charr (I will never forgive! hehe).
Once again, I played the game how I wanted to and I'm just commenting that the way I played the game I "ran out" of content and ended up repeating a significant chunk...and that did get boring. Eventually I broke down and went to the Norn area but I really didn't want to, and I personally was disappointed that I had to do that just to find new content that was my level. Yes I know it's beta and I know they are adding more content...but at least so far this is just my experience. Maybe I am approaching the game too "traditionally" but the game shouldn't force us to play it a certain way....I felt like I did a fair share of different activities and still felt the game slightly lacking in content. Perhaps you felt otherwise, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that.
I agree. There were sections of the Norn area that still felt in need of development where I had to run around to find things to do and I gave feedback to that effect. I think the Char areas were more complete. Having said that, i know they added content between the second beta and this BWE, and I expect them to continue loading in more.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
As I see it are DEs still rather primitive but they have a lot of potential. Before GW2 were DEs very basic and we now get a step further, and if GW2 do well we might get them a lot more advanced.
I remember how quests were in Meridian 59, they were very basic and have evolved a lot since. The same thing will happen to DEs. I do remember the first quest I made, I was told to go out and kill 10 rats in the moat... Done that a few times since in other games.
Playing DEs in the BWE was the most fun I had in years in a game, I can easily admit that the mechanics aren´t perfected yet but to me it tells a lot about games to come. I think regular questbased MMOs will be rare 5 years from now.
...I really think you are assuming you know my play experience without actually knowing it. I did do WvW. I spent a few hours trying it out. I found the level progression to be painfully slow so I left. Like I already said I did plenty of exploring, I completed 3 zones (Two towns and Queensdale to 100%...well near 100% because of the bugged skill point). I had resource gathering tools and I mined...though I didn't craft but I shouldn't be forced to craft. I'm not really sure what else I should be doing? *snip*
Not saying that's not legit, but that wasn't my experience. By the time I left Kessex to explore norn area, I was 24, then I helped a friend through the area and hit 25. I don't know how you did all of that and were only 17, but it sounds like you were rushing at those hearts and nothing else. I didn't repeat events a ton, either. Or well, I did, but because I kept failing, because the 15+ areas aren't really populated yet and it took quite a few tries to save towns and clear that undead swamp area. Otherwise, I just ran around exploring, clearing hearts, and helping in events I happened to pass along the way. I did do my personal storyline up to 19 though, did you skip it? If you did, that explains a bit. I didn't touch PvP until 30. From 25, I got 30 by clearing Norn 1-24 areas.
If you're skipping content because you don't want to do it, that's fine, the game was built to allow you a variety of ways to level up. Including yes, repeating events, which is a consequence of trying to level without doing some of the other content. This to me, is a lot like playing Rift and then complaining that you can't level effectively unless you do quests. Clearly if you don't want to quest, a game like Rift is not for you. If you don't want to explore all the content GW2 has to offer, then once again, it just might not be the game for you. No point forcing yourself to enjoy something you don't.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I wish we could see a video explaining Dynamic Event Scaling. It seems like once the majority of people out-level the lower level zones, dynamic events will always fail, until a few minutes later when they just reset. In a few months time, there won't be 5 players to save a village, you may be the only person in the zone, then what? If it scaled, you could take back the towns by yourself if no one else was around. In this video, it looked like he got absolutely destroyed because no one else was there to help.
It seems like once the majority of people out-level the lower level zones, dynamic events will always fail, until a few minutes later when they just reset. In a few months time, there won't be 5 players to save a village, you may be the only person in the zone, then what? If it scaled, you could take back the towns by yourself if no one else was around. In this video, it looked like he got absolutely destroyed because no one else was there to help.
I've never seen a DE reset when failed unless you mean that, for example, a town is taken over by centaurs and you die trying to free it. In this case then the town will remain in control of the centaurs.
At any rate, people will never "out-level" the lower zones because of downleveling. No matter where you go at 80, you will be playing at a level appropriate to the content with gear dropping appropriate to your level. Additionally, the developers have stated that they will be rotating in new DEs throughout the game, so I don't expect things to grow stale quickly.
I do think that they need to continue tuning DEs so that it can be done by one player if needed, though it will still be hard.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
I do think that they need to continue tuning DEs so that it can be done by one player if needed, though it will still be hard.
I actually like the idea that a single player can't retake a town. It gives more meaning and has a greater impact on the game world when players can't solo events like this.
Originally posted by Jimmydean It seems like once the majority of people out-level the lower level zones, dynamic events will always fail.
Some things like boss mobs, invading hordes and timed tasks can't easily be done solo... but isn't that a good thing?
There are lots of other things to do in other places if there is ever something that is too difficult to do. GW2 isn't like other MMOs where you go from quest hub to quest hub and can't move on in the quest chain until you've completed all of the previous quests. If you ever encounter an event that is too difficult to solo and nobody else is nearby then simply move on. If there's something important that you want to accomplish then ask for help.
If there were no consequences for failing an event then events would have no consequence on the world.
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Quality yes is probably more important, but I still need enough quantity to not make it feel like a grind. 2 very high quality "Dynamic events" (IE: Quests) that I repeat 10 times still feels like a grind, no matter how high quality they are. Obviously yes there are more than 2 events, but you get the idea. THere were definitely several levels where I was stuck repeating the same dynamic events. The biggest one for me was around level 17-18. I like to stick to one pathway through a game (to preserve replayability) so I was going forward in the human zone. I don't think it's much to ask to say you should be able to level with limited repetition while staying in your race's pathway. However at 17-18 I was in Kessex Hills and I had completed all the heart quests up to level 24. There were a group of 4 Dynamic Events (3 were attack/defend 3 locations all nearby each other, the fourth was escort one of those yaks) that were around my level. They just kept popping up. Always the same, either attakc or defend. If I went to the next area in the zone the DE's were much higher in level. But those 4 just weren't advancing my level that quickly. I probably repeated each one about 4 or 5 times. It was at that point the game felt like a total grind and I turned it off and lost probably about a day's worth of play time because I just couldn't bring myself to play the game again.
Now I know I'm unique in the way that I am VERY sensitive to a grind. As soon as a game feels at all repetitive I usually get bored and move on. I rarely subscribe to an MMO for more than a month. To be honest MMOs probably are just not for me, however I still love the idea and I basically try every single AAA MMO hoping that one eventually will hold my interest. The fact that I lost interest within 2 days doesn't bode well. Yes the dynamic events were fun, yes they were higher quality than most quests...but the number of them in the game during this weekend just wasn't enough FOR ME (not saying that is true for everyone) to hold my interest, without making me feel like I'm grinding through repetitive content. However, I will continue to participate in the weekends, provide feedback and continue to try the game out because I recognize that a beta is a work in process, and I'm sure they still have work to do on these zones, and perhaps they will create better or more interesting DE's. Perhaps I just got stuck in an area that wasn't "complete" yet, so I have to reserve my judgement. However it is something I'm worried about. The idea behind DE's is great, but 1 DE for every 15-20 "normal quests" just doesn't cut it for me, because that still means you are going to be repeating the DE content a lot compared to normal games where there are more than enough quests to do without repeating them.
Actually, I think that you are suppose to travel to other racial zones. That is why ArenaNet made travel so painless. Besides, you're gimping yourself on the skill points if you only stick to your racial zones, there's just not enough skill challenges if you only stay in your zone.
I believe that GW2 is much like the first game in this sense. When I played GW1, I always found myself fast traveling from one part of the world to the next. The game actually encouraged it, with various daily tasks and weekly events taking place in various locations around the world.
This is why I never got bored during the BWE. I made a charr and played in the charr zone for a bit. Got bored of the scenery (the ruins are a bit depressing), went to the human zones and had a blast. Most of Sunday I spent in the norn lands. The best part is that because of the way the game is set up, I could always return to the charr lands and pick up where I left off and not have to deal with trivial content because I outleveled it.
I've been saying this for a while: you have to forget some of your MMO habits when it comes to GW2. The game is a bit different and needs a slightly different approach if you want to fully experience it.
I definitely see your point. I actually ended up logging back in later and switching to the Norn area which was quite cool.
However, if that is the case then my fears are just replaced with a different fear. If I'm expected to go through the content in multiple zones for each level group just to advance, what does that do for replayability? If I'm going to 2 or 3 on level zones per character...that leaves about 2 characters worth of content. I still found myself in the Norn zone repeating dynamic events after already completing the human zone. I wouldn't say I was leveling too slowly either, I thought the pace of leveling was just fine...I just felt there wasn't enough content. However I do think (at least hope) that they continue to add dynamice vents and content during beta right now.
Consider that there are a lot more ways to get XP besides just PvE. Every time you gather from a node, you get XP. Every time you craft something, you get XP. WvW PvP gives you XP. Consider also that exploration gives you a large chunk of XP and the skill points you get from other zones are vital to your character's development. The game is really about exploration. You're not really suppose to grind DEs like you would quests. You're suppose to explore the world and participate in the DEs as they happen around you. There is also a lot of hidden events and encounters around the world.
I think that the issue is with how people approach this game. If you approach this game like you would your average MMO, you'll get bored quick. The emphasis in GW2 is on exploration, not merely quest grinding and leveling up like in other games. There is a lot of hidden stuff in GW2 that you will miss if you're just going to rush to the next level and the next zone. For example, there is a ghost mystery in the cemetary right outside of Divinity's Reach that I was trying to figure out for like an hour but couldn't. I'll get it during the next BWE though. There is an NPC in Lion's Arch who leads you to the hideout of the Order of Whispers if you follow him.
Basically, forget what you're used to in other MMOs. Forget about the max level, there is no endgame to rush to. Explore and you will have a great time!
Yes I understand all those lofty statements of "Forget what you know" "This is so different" etc... I'm just stating my experience.
I had 100% completion on Queensdale and Divinity's Reach (Well near 100% in queensdale, that one skill point in beetletun was bugged). I was level 17 and I had all heart quests completedin kessex hills up to level 24. I didn't really want to PVP on that character. I personally wanted to continue to play in the human area but in order to do that it required repeating the same "dynamic" events multiple times to level (that or just kill random enemies). Yes maybe if I wandered around and "explored" more I would have stumbled across something that would have given me experience...but in terms of their "Dynamic Event" system...unless I switched zones I was stuck grinding them to level. I personally, in my experience, felt that was a problem. I just don't think they had enough dynamic events, at least in kessex hills around that level. That's not a game-breaking mechanical issue with the game, it's just a lack of content. I really enjoyed playing the game, I enjoyed having those different ways to playing the game...however I still felt the game was lacking content. It replaced the dozens of quests per quest hub in a normal MMO with a handful of DEs and for me that just didn't cut it. I felt like too many times I was left with no "goal" to strive towards, no new objective (except for repeating old objectives).
The dynamic event system was fun but to be honest in the first 20 levels of this game I repeated more content then I think I have ever repeated in the first 20 levels of ANY mmo. Was the content high quality? Yes, but I still repeated it multiple times. I still think that is a weakness.
you repeat content because you want. key in this game is explore isnt stay in a zone and do the samething over and over again. i dont even see the point stay in a place and dont explore, i explore lot of content and i just repeat some DE just because i want and were fun, not because i must and didnt have more option.
you have so many options in this game that is almost insane
DE in low zone lvl are just spaming and are almost the same, if you just have explore more you could see how this is much diferent on high lvl zones (and much harder and fun)
While I admit I initially did not change racial areas (and I still maintain we shouldn't have to...if I'm human I shouldn't need to go quest with a bunch of charr just to have enough content), within one racial area I did plenty of exploring. Like I said I was 100% on divinity's reach, queensdale (and also lion's arch...that city is awesome). I was in Kessex Hills and I had explored up to content for level 22-24 and I was level 17. The DE's for the higher levels were getting too difficult so I got stuck in a rotation of 4 DE's that just repeated over and over again with no real dynamism to them (Yay we retook the town with the mine! I wonder what's going to happen? Oh wow, we have to defend it!...rinse and repeat). Maybe that is just a very unique hole in the progression in the game that needs filling...but in that moment the game suddenly revealed itself as not very dynamic, and instead as just very repetitive.
EDIT: Also. Just like how past games shouldn't tell you how to play, this game shouldn't do that either. The key shouldn't be to "explore", what if a player isn't an explorer? Not everyone likes wandering around trying to find content...some people have limited time and want to know where to go to find new content. I personally like to explore, and I did plenty of it...but sometimes I also wanted to work on leveling my character because I was only there for a weekend....and when I really wanted to level my character sometimes it was difficult to find new content to do.
The other example that sticks with me is when I did go "exploring" in Snowden Drifts in the Norn area. I ran into a DE early on in the zone to help some soldiers...that led to like a 2 or 3 event chain until eventually they all walked off with their cart. I thought "Cool, this is going to turn into something neat". They actually just walked to a town and disappeared, with one of them becoming a merchant. At that point I set out to "explore" the zone...yes I got xp exploring but for a good 15-20 minutes I didn't encounter a single dynamic event...without normal quests I was essentially stuck just grinding out those heart quests for "content"...no dynamic events were popping up. Great, the system is dynamic that makes it exciting...but it can also make it kind of boring if in the moment you want to do something there is nothing to be done.
That's the thing though. The game is not really lacking in content. You're just skipping some of it. You're focusing on doing DEs and hearts when there is other stuff to do.
I got one of my characters to level 17 and not once have I felt like I was repeating the content or grinding for that matter. I didn't participate in WvW with him nor did I do any crafting or gathering. Sure I've repeated a couple of DEs a few times, especially in the beginning, but once I realized that I can freely travel to other starting zones and the fact that there is a very rewarding hidden element to the game, I had a blast just exploring the game and trying to finding hidden content.
I still think that you're approaching this game from a more traditional standpoint and missing out on some of the fun. It is possible that there is a lack of DEs in higher zones, it's also possible that they aren't fully implemented yet. Remember this game is still in beta and some of the content is missing. It's possible that by the next BWE, or by release, ANet will add more DEs and/or adjust the XP rewards from existing DEs to make it more streamlined. Then again, it's also possible that they will not and what we see now is what we'll get later. It's beta, so we can't be sure either way.
...I really think you are assuming you know my play experience without actually knowing it. I did do WvW. I spent a few hours trying it out. I found the level progression to be painfully slow so I left. Like I already said I did plenty of exploring, I completed 3 zones (Two towns and Queensdale to 100%...well near 100% because of the bugged skill point). I had resource gathering tools and I mined...though I didn't craft but I shouldn't be forced to craft. I'm not really sure what else I should be doing?
People should be able to play the game how they like. I personally didn't want to travel to the charr or norn zones...my character was a human engineer and I wanted to stick around helping humans. I liked the whole defense against the centaur stuff...I didn't want to go help any norns and I especially didn't want to help charr (I will never forgive! hehe).
Once again, I played the game how I wanted to and I'm just commenting that the way I played the game I "ran out" of content and ended up repeating a significant chunk...and that did get boring. Eventually I broke down and went to the Norn area but I really didn't want to, and I personally was disappointed that I had to do that just to find new content that was my level. Yes I know it's beta and I know they are adding more content...but at least so far this is just my experience. Maybe I am approaching the game too "traditionally" but the game shouldn't force us to play it a certain way....I felt like I did a fair share of different activities and still felt the game slightly lacking in content. Perhaps you felt otherwise, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that.
I agree. There were sections of the Norn area that still felt in need of development where I had to run around to find things to do and I gave feedback to that effect. I think the Char areas were more complete. Having said that, i know they added content between the second beta and this BWE, and I expect them to continue loading in more.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Very nice vid I hope to see more
Great video!
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As I see it are DEs still rather primitive but they have a lot of potential. Before GW2 were DEs very basic and we now get a step further, and if GW2 do well we might get them a lot more advanced.
I remember how quests were in Meridian 59, they were very basic and have evolved a lot since. The same thing will happen to DEs. I do remember the first quest I made, I was told to go out and kill 10 rats in the moat... Done that a few times since in other games.
Playing DEs in the BWE was the most fun I had in years in a game, I can easily admit that the mechanics aren´t perfected yet but to me it tells a lot about games to come. I think regular questbased MMOs will be rare 5 years from now.
The video shows a level 17 DE. Looks like the events get bigger and has more branching the higher the level. Give me this game now!
One of the best videos to explain GW2 that I have seen. I hope to see more.
Not saying that's not legit, but that wasn't my experience. By the time I left Kessex to explore norn area, I was 24, then I helped a friend through the area and hit 25. I don't know how you did all of that and were only 17, but it sounds like you were rushing at those hearts and nothing else. I didn't repeat events a ton, either. Or well, I did, but because I kept failing, because the 15+ areas aren't really populated yet and it took quite a few tries to save towns and clear that undead swamp area. Otherwise, I just ran around exploring, clearing hearts, and helping in events I happened to pass along the way. I did do my personal storyline up to 19 though, did you skip it? If you did, that explains a bit. I didn't touch PvP until 30. From 25, I got 30 by clearing Norn 1-24 areas.
If you're skipping content because you don't want to do it, that's fine, the game was built to allow you a variety of ways to level up. Including yes, repeating events, which is a consequence of trying to level without doing some of the other content. This to me, is a lot like playing Rift and then complaining that you can't level effectively unless you do quests. Clearly if you don't want to quest, a game like Rift is not for you. If you don't want to explore all the content GW2 has to offer, then once again, it just might not be the game for you. No point forcing yourself to enjoy something you don't.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I wish we could see a video explaining Dynamic Event Scaling. It seems like once the majority of people out-level the lower level zones, dynamic events will always fail, until a few minutes later when they just reset. In a few months time, there won't be 5 players to save a village, you may be the only person in the zone, then what? If it scaled, you could take back the towns by yourself if no one else was around. In this video, it looked like he got absolutely destroyed because no one else was there to help.
Great video. I can't wait to see what's going on in the high level zones.
I've never seen a DE reset when failed unless you mean that, for example, a town is taken over by centaurs and you die trying to free it. In this case then the town will remain in control of the centaurs.
At any rate, people will never "out-level" the lower zones because of downleveling. No matter where you go at 80, you will be playing at a level appropriate to the content with gear dropping appropriate to your level. Additionally, the developers have stated that they will be rotating in new DEs throughout the game, so I don't expect things to grow stale quickly.
I do think that they need to continue tuning DEs so that it can be done by one player if needed, though it will still be hard.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Some things like boss mobs, invading hordes and timed tasks can't easily be done solo... but isn't that a good thing?
There are lots of other things to do in other places if there is ever something that is too difficult to do. GW2 isn't like other MMOs where you go from quest hub to quest hub and can't move on in the quest chain until you've completed all of the previous quests. If you ever encounter an event that is too difficult to solo and nobody else is nearby then simply move on. If there's something important that you want to accomplish then ask for help.
If there were no consequences for failing an event then events would have no consequence on the world.