so they have sacrificed combat and by the looks of it they have sacrificed graphics also. yeah they are definitely thinking about money over making a good game that fan of the series would appreciate.
so they have sacrificed combat and by the looks of it they have sacrificed graphics also. yeah they are definitely thinking about money over making a good game that fan of the series would appreciate.
well they did buy a really good PR team which as been able to successfully convince some people that certian features are not realistically possible in an MMO even though said features actually exist in MMOs simply because a company said so.
I think that brainwashing starts very early though.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
so they have sacrificed combat and by the looks of it they have sacrificed graphics also. yeah they are definitely thinking about money over making a good game that fan of the series would appreciate.
well they did buy a really good PR team which as been able to successfully convince some people that certian features are not realistically possible in an MMO even though said features actually exist in MMOs simply because a company said so.
I think that brainwashing starts very early though.
of course they are. its a high profit low risk project.
I agree with the OP. You may not like MO or DF (and I don't) but you have to admit that they do demonstrate that it is technically feasible to have Elder Scrolls style combat in an MMO.
The choice to go down the WoW clone hotbar route is a marketing decision, not a technical one.
You just gave us three examples of proof that a FPV, action oriented game does not work.
Good job!
Just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean that you can do it WELL.
Wait Planetside doesn't work?
ALERT THE NAVY! That game that's been running for 9 years doesn't work, guys!
It was never something I'd consider tight and fluid in terms of combat, like most FPS implementations in the massively realm it was very "floaty", PS2 may be different who knows, but none of the games mentioned thus far are games I would say the combat makes them standout among the rest. For me it was a big turn off in regard to all three of those games. As well as Fallen Earth, APB, FOM, etc.. It made them feel like third rate games.
It's sad the only decent implementation I can think of with somewhat massive numbers was on console, MAG.
But that game was essentially a one trick pony, which is exactly what I hear a lot about Tera, which I haven't played so I don't know for sure.
the combat system of darkfall is flat out amazing adrenaline pumping masterpeice of amazement. It is in fact better than Syrim. Now in all fairness darkfall does require one to forget how things normally work, take the paitence to retrain but after that...POW! People who hate the game will cite things like imballance, and slow progression but nobody who plays more than a week says the combat engine is anything but fantastic.
I mean now that we are all stating opinons as facts I thought I would as well
Can't tell if sarcastic but...
I personally am not a HUGE fan of the DF combat but I certainly prefer it to traditional MMO combat. I think the root of DF's combat issue, and why it's so fast and silly (unlike Mortal's more deliberate Mount&Blade type combat) is that in Darkfall, you do 40% more damage if you hit someone in the back. That is the reason why melee fights are all about sprinting in figure eights trying to swing and hit the guy in the back. That's all that is really. If they took that out and made blocked more prominent, the melee combat would be much more intense and deliberate. It would also be great if they let us go First-Person again while having a melee weapon out. It puts you at a view disadvantage sure, but immersion wise, nothing compares.
Nope i think its the exact opposite. They know 80% of consumers will by this shit because its just like wow.
And 60% of those will leave within the first 3 months leaving their servers a deserted wasteland which promptly leads to Developers scurrying to save subs in an attempt to stave off the F2P death Knell.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Darkfall and MO are both horrible games, sand box is a fail formula for any game and it just doesnt work. I'm interested in seeing how TESO is going to play out and can't wait to see it.
Not sure why you sandbox people keep saying that ES is a sand box game, it is nothing like that. Not even sure why I am replying to this crap because you all live in a bubble.
Your juSt plain wrong..
Yes Darkfall and MO had issues but at the core they are amazing games and nothing comes clsoe to the fun i have had in those games.. well comparted to other MMORPGs.. SANDBOX games are realyl the only games that interest me now in the MMORPG world. got bored long ago with the themepark style games..
The ES games have qutie a few sandbox elements and the world itself would lend itself to an amazing sandbox type MMORPG this is why people wanted the ES MMO is be a sandbox game... plus the people wanted them do to somthing different from the rest of the crowed... there had not been a AAA title that has really moved away from the WOW themepark formula for a very long time not even GW2 and people are getting bored with it..
This game reveal is the most saddening thing I have experienced with MMORPG's. Thank goodness GW2 is coming and World of Darkness and some games mixing it up a bit. Most of all thank goodness for Diablo 3. I can't stomach this crap anymore.
Darkfall and MO are both horrible games, sand box is a fail formula for any game and it just doesnt work. I'm interested in seeing how TESO is going to play out and can't wait to see it.
Not sure why you sandbox people keep saying that ES is a sand box game, it is nothing like that. Not even sure why I am replying to this crap because you all live in a bubble.
Your juSt plain wrong..
Yes Darkfall and MO had issues but at the core they are amazing games and nothing comes clsoe to the fun i have had in those games.. well comparted to other MMORPGs.. SANDBOX games are realyl the only games that interest me now in the MMORPG world. got bored long ago with the themepark style games..
The ES games have qutie a few sandbox elements and the world itself would lend itself to an amazing sandbox type MMORPG this is why people wanted the ES MMO is be a sandbox game... plus the people wanted them do to somthing different from the rest of the crowed... there had not been a AAA title that has really moved away from the WOW themepark formula for a very long time not even GW2 and people are getting bored with it..
We need somthing different..
agreed Darkfall (I cant speak to MO havent played) is anything but 'horrible'. debates could ensue about improvements but the gap between 'horrible' and 'improvement' is HUGE.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
At least they aren't going to get the chance to do this sort of injustice to the Fallout mmo.
How do you figure? They won the lawsuit against Interplay and are now free to openly work on Fallout Online. Don't think for a second they weren't working on it during the lawsuit. They'l screw that up even more than Elder Scrolls Online, especially considering their "creative director" is the former lead designer for Tabula Rasa (a game that actually got better AFTER he left NCsoft). EO will end up being the next SWTOR.
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
Can anyone please LINK me the video of TESO gameplay.
Or is this thread just based on everyone professional assumption on MMO games?
That, plus a few random screenshots. Oh yeah, and the fact that they dared to mention WoW and TOR in one of the interviews.
people are basing their views on exact words that are in the article. I will paraphrase
'player housing is not possible as players want it'
'tab targeting'
'classes'
I think its fair to assume that the game will have tab targeting when the article actually says it.
I am not sure how many of you play ME3, but this is one Article and Interviews that I hope they lie to their teeth.
ME3 interviews and articles said what it will include but doesn't include in the final game.
TESO is one game that I hope all their interviews and articles are lying and everything they said they included will not be, everything that they said will not be included will be included.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Can anyone please LINK me the video of TESO gameplay.
Or is this thread just based on everyone professional assumption on MMO games?
That, plus a few random screenshots. Oh yeah, and the fact that they dared to mention WoW and TOR in one of the interviews.
people are basing their views on exact words that are in the article. I will paraphrase
'player housing is not possible as players want it'
'tab targeting'
'classes'
I think its fair to assume that the game will have tab targeting when the article actually says it.
I am not sure how many of you play ME3, but this is one Article and Interviews that I hope they lie to their teeth.
ME3 interviews and articles said what it will include but doesn't include in the final game.
TESO is one game that I hope all their interviews and articles are lying and everything they said they included will not be, everything that they said will not be included will be included.
when I first started reading the first article I did a double take I thought I was reading a fake one. It reads like pure sarcasm
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Proof that ZeniMax is just making a copy and paste themepark WoW game to simply cash in and cash out. It goes against everything Elder Scrolls is about. A Elder Scrolls MMO is not bad for the series, but how it’s currently being done is. The technology IS there for them to make a true sandbox, FPV, Elder scrolls game, but hey simply don’t care about innovating.
If these dev companies that have like 5 employees and no money can do it, why can't ZeniMax? The answer is simply they only care about money. Below are videos of THREE mmo games demonstrating technology that can be expanded on that shows FPV twitch based combat:
While I agree it can be done and should be done, you picked three of the worst examples of possible engines to use so your whole post ends up dead on the floor.
Proof that ZeniMax is just making a copy and paste themepark WoW game to simply cash in and cash out. It goes against everything Elder Scrolls is about. A Elder Scrolls MMO is not bad for the series, but how it’s currently being done is. The technology IS there for them to make a true sandbox, FPV, Elder scrolls game, but hey simply don’t care about innovating.
If these dev companies that have like 5 employees and no money can do it, why can't ZeniMax? The answer is simply they only care about money. Below are videos of THREE mmo games demonstrating technology that can be expanded on that shows FPV twitch based combat:
You just gave us three examples of proof that a FPV, action oriented game does not work.
Good job!
Just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean that you can do it WELL.
i think that ZeniMax can do it well they just dont want the challange... they think if they do anything with TES name it will be a bug success and thats why it will prob fail
I don't think they are completely oblivious to what we want. I think they knew that certain sacrifices had to be made as well as hard decisions. The decided to use the HERO engine and with that comes your typical MMO combat mechanics. What happens if they try to give the players FPS combat and fail? That, in my opinion, is much more realistic. The fans still would be upset.
I think it has a lot to do with the hero engine honestly. I know someone just posted that they have a demo of FPS type things, but putting heavy melee combat into the mix is harder than just shooting like planetside because you have to calculate exact positions for hits.
If you notice also they make it a point to say that they will have "up to 100 vs 100" battles in the interview. If I'm not mistaken there is a video of the SWTOR developers saying the EXACT same thing about ilum before launch, and we all know how that turned out. I think they were sold on a shitty engine roughly the same time as the Bioware guys were, but maybe a more refined and polished version since they started a little later.
Either way you look at it, I think they just went for whatever system was easier to make. If you notice in the repopulation game they have real time placing a housing and other system, but these guys say that is just impossible to do for them. There seems to be a real lack of creativity and willingness to try new things at zenimax. They are just rehashing the same old tired systems with a new marketing face on them.
Can anyone please LINK me the video of TESO gameplay.
Or is this thread just based on everyone professional assumption on MMO games?
That, plus a few random screenshots. Oh yeah, and the fact that they dared to mention WoW and TOR in one of the interviews.
people are basing their views on exact words that are in the article. I will paraphrase
'player housing is not possible as players want it'
'tab targeting'
'classes'
I think its fair to assume that the game will have tab targeting when the article actually says it.
I am not sure how many of you play ME3, but this is one Article and Interviews that I hope they lie to their teeth.
ME3 interviews and articles said what it will include but doesn't include in the final game.
TESO is one game that I hope all their interviews and articles are lying and everything they said they included will not be, everything that they said will not be included will be included.
They didn't lie about the mechanics though. They said things would have a more cinematic feel. They did. They said the levels would be more vertical as opposed to horizontal. They were. They said, ah screw it, you get my point.
Now on the speculative things, ME3 promised a variety of endings. They didn't deliver. They promised meaningful choice. They didn't deliver.
We haven't even gotten to the speculative things. ESO will be Trinity based. It will have tab targeting, cooldown animations, etc. Other than that, we can only define the game by what it isn't, and that is almost all of the things that people found so compelling in ESO. IGN of all people put it best: you really have to accept that this game won't be anything like the single player experiences in the TES series.
On the concrete mechanics stuff, it is what it is.
I think it has a lot to do with the hero engine honestly. I know someone just posted that they have a demo of FPS type things, but putting heavy melee combat into the mix is harder than just shooting like planetside because you have to calculate exact positions for hits.
If you notice also they make it a point to say that they will have "up to 100 vs 100" battles in the interview. If I'm not mistaken there is a video of the SWTOR developers saying the EXACT same thing about ilum before launch, and we all know how that turned out. I think they were sold on a shitty engine roughly the same time as the Bioware guys were, but maybe a more refined and polished version since they started a little later.
Either way you look at it, I think they just went for whatever system was easier to make. If you notice in the repopulation game they have real time placing a housing and other system, but these guys say that is just impossible to do for them. There seems to be a real lack of creativity and willingness to try new things at zenimax. They are just rehashing the same old tired systems with a new marketing face on them.
It makes little sense to call TOR "The Hero Engine." What they got was an incredibly early version of the Hero Engine, that they bastardized to hell with their own "improvements", and then did absolutely no optimization. The fact that they did really nothing to optimize their engine cannot be emphasized enough.
Comments
so they have sacrificed combat and by the looks of it they have sacrificed graphics also. yeah they are definitely thinking about money over making a good game that fan of the series would appreciate.
well they did buy a really good PR team which as been able to successfully convince some people that certian features are not realistically possible in an MMO even though said features actually exist in MMOs simply because a company said so.
I think that brainwashing starts very early though.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
of course they are. its a high profit low risk project.
I agree with the OP. You may not like MO or DF (and I don't) but you have to admit that they do demonstrate that it is technically feasible to have Elder Scrolls style combat in an MMO.
The choice to go down the WoW clone hotbar route is a marketing decision, not a technical one.
Can't tell if sarcastic but...
I personally am not a HUGE fan of the DF combat but I certainly prefer it to traditional MMO combat. I think the root of DF's combat issue, and why it's so fast and silly (unlike Mortal's more deliberate Mount&Blade type combat) is that in Darkfall, you do 40% more damage if you hit someone in the back. That is the reason why melee fights are all about sprinting in figure eights trying to swing and hit the guy in the back. That's all that is really. If they took that out and made blocked more prominent, the melee combat would be much more intense and deliberate. It would also be great if they let us go First-Person again while having a melee weapon out. It puts you at a view disadvantage sure, but immersion wise, nothing compares.
And 60% of those will leave within the first 3 months leaving their servers a deserted wasteland which promptly leads to Developers scurrying to save subs in an attempt to stave off the F2P death Knell.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Can anyone please LINK me the video of TESO gameplay.
Or is this thread just based on everyone professional assumption on MMO games?
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language
Your juSt plain wrong..
Yes Darkfall and MO had issues but at the core they are amazing games and nothing comes clsoe to the fun i have had in those games.. well comparted to other MMORPGs.. SANDBOX games are realyl the only games that interest me now in the MMORPG world. got bored long ago with the themepark style games..
The ES games have qutie a few sandbox elements and the world itself would lend itself to an amazing sandbox type MMORPG this is why people wanted the ES MMO is be a sandbox game... plus the people wanted them do to somthing different from the rest of the crowed... there had not been a AAA title that has really moved away from the WOW themepark formula for a very long time not even GW2 and people are getting bored with it..
We need somthing different..
This game reveal is the most saddening thing I have experienced with MMORPG's. Thank goodness GW2 is coming and World of Darkness and some games mixing it up a bit. Most of all thank goodness for Diablo 3. I can't stomach this crap anymore.
agreed Darkfall (I cant speak to MO havent played) is anything but 'horrible'. debates could ensue about improvements but the gap between 'horrible' and 'improvement' is HUGE.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
How do you figure? They won the lawsuit against Interplay and are now free to openly work on Fallout Online. Don't think for a second they weren't working on it during the lawsuit. They'l screw that up even more than Elder Scrolls Online, especially considering their "creative director" is the former lead designer for Tabula Rasa (a game that actually got better AFTER he left NCsoft). EO will end up being the next SWTOR.
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
That, plus a few random screenshots. Oh yeah, and the fact that they dared to mention WoW and TOR in one of the interviews.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
people are basing their views on exact words that are in the article. I will paraphrase
'player housing is not possible as players want it'
'tab targeting'
'classes'
I think its fair to assume that the game will have tab targeting when the article actually says it.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I am not sure how many of you play ME3, but this is one Article and Interviews that I hope they lie to their teeth.
ME3 interviews and articles said what it will include but doesn't include in the final game.
TESO is one game that I hope all their interviews and articles are lying and everything they said they included will not be, everything that they said will not be included will be included.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
when I first started reading the first article I did a double take I thought I was reading a fake one. It reads like pure sarcasm
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
That darkfall video is badass.
Does anyone know who the artist is for the first song in this video?
Real TES fans will not even buy it knowing it will be a themepark for casuals that like WoWclones.
The video was nice but pitty that, The Mercs where badass cheaters also lol
While I agree it can be done and should be done, you picked three of the worst examples of possible engines to use so your whole post ends up dead on the floor.
Now I know why that song is awesome. It's Massive Attack.
As for the hero engine and FPS mechanics..
http://www.heroengine.com/2012/04/our-fps-demo-is-online/
there we go..
one of my fav darkfall video's only trouble is you have to have some experience in the game to really understand the intensitiy of what is happening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=uJETzhlMAEE&feature=endscreen
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I think it has a lot to do with the hero engine honestly. I know someone just posted that they have a demo of FPS type things, but putting heavy melee combat into the mix is harder than just shooting like planetside because you have to calculate exact positions for hits.
If you notice also they make it a point to say that they will have "up to 100 vs 100" battles in the interview. If I'm not mistaken there is a video of the SWTOR developers saying the EXACT same thing about ilum before launch, and we all know how that turned out. I think they were sold on a shitty engine roughly the same time as the Bioware guys were, but maybe a more refined and polished version since they started a little later.
Either way you look at it, I think they just went for whatever system was easier to make. If you notice in the repopulation game they have real time placing a housing and other system, but these guys say that is just impossible to do for them. There seems to be a real lack of creativity and willingness to try new things at zenimax. They are just rehashing the same old tired systems with a new marketing face on them.
They didn't lie about the mechanics though. They said things would have a more cinematic feel. They did. They said the levels would be more vertical as opposed to horizontal. They were. They said, ah screw it, you get my point.
Now on the speculative things, ME3 promised a variety of endings. They didn't deliver. They promised meaningful choice. They didn't deliver.
We haven't even gotten to the speculative things. ESO will be Trinity based. It will have tab targeting, cooldown animations, etc. Other than that, we can only define the game by what it isn't, and that is almost all of the things that people found so compelling in ESO. IGN of all people put it best: you really have to accept that this game won't be anything like the single player experiences in the TES series.
On the concrete mechanics stuff, it is what it is.
It makes little sense to call TOR "The Hero Engine." What they got was an incredibly early version of the Hero Engine, that they bastardized to hell with their own "improvements", and then did absolutely no optimization. The fact that they did really nothing to optimize their engine cannot be emphasized enough.