factions are a stupid idea imo, why couldnt they let players create their own alliances/factions themselves by grouping up with multiple guilds just like games like EVE online etc.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
Really doesn't matter to me I mean 3 faction world pvp is way more exciting than 2, and I'll still be able to play the character I want depending on whatever faction.
It's not world PVP, it's relegated to an end-game zone with instances and 200-player caps.
^ If that's how PVP truly turns out, I will not play for long. I want to be able to travel to enemy areas and hunt people leveling or climb a building and wait to shoot arrows at passerbys like in Cotswold outside Camelot in DAOC. This game should not have instanced pvp, or any instances for that matter.
Dragnon - Guildmaster - Albion Central Bank in Albion Online
Really doesn't matter to me I mean 3 faction world pvp is way more exciting than 2, and I'll still be able to play the character I want depending on whatever faction.
It's not world PVP, it's relegated to an end-game zone with instances and 200-player caps.
^ If that's how PVP truly turns out, I will not play for long. I want to be able to travel to enemy areas and hunt people leveling or climb a building and wait to shoot arrows at passerbys like in Cotswold outside Camelot in DAOC. This game should not have instanced pvp, or any instances for that matter.
if you dont like it why play at all? playing for any length of time is buying the game which is in turn supporting their game.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
The OP might have a point because the races are tied to the factions. If any race has a more evil/dark feel to them, then that will probably become the more popular choice.
But it also depends on how PVP is going to be set up I guess.
Balance is a huge issue for any game with 2 or 3 factions yes. 5 would really be better but we don´t know if ESO will try to balance this in some way or not yet.
Yeah in my opinion factions should be somethign optional that you can choose to joim leave, or even betray, but not somethign that should be a mandatory thing you join to play the game. Kinda like how in old D&D game settings you have the Harpers, the wizards of thray, and such that were factions (of pretty high degrees of control in the world.) yet they were not something you had to join to experince the game. I got to say doing this where the players regardless of race )maybe put a race lock out on some groups o factions.) could seek out and join these group to add more depth to the pvp in the game, and even more lore or info on what i shappening in the game would be intrresting, and also make the players feel they actually have a say in what they can do in the game more. The same is here with the three factions of eos in that i think you should be either to betray the faction you choose at the start by traveling to the other side, or by merely having a questline that allows you to seek them out at a point without hdaving to choose on at creation.
PS played daoc forever 6+ years, had a top 1% top level toon on the open pvp realm until max and there was little to do, ahah shadowclan so funny i smashed in groups of them with my healer. Games like this should offer transfer with like bonus pvp, exp gains for a month or 2 to even server factions pops. at least when needed.
Ahhh Mordred, how I miss you. Yeah, Shadowclan was a joke. It was cool how they all adopted a language, I guess... But they got stomped by anyone and everyone. Who was your toon? If you were top 1% I probably knew you.
Balance is a huge issue for any game with 2 or 3 factions yes. 5 would really be better but we don´t know if ESO will try to balance this in some way or not yet.
I agree. See, Zenimax herr is just grabbing an idea they heard about, but they are not showing an understanding of why people liked tri-faction PVP. In thier defense, some posters in this thread are doing the same thing as Zenimax. Three factions worked because it guaranteed an imbalance of numbers... ensuring that one faction did not hold onto artifacts forever. The key was that it was an odd number of factions, to prevent one sidd from running the show, and to prevent permanent alliances from forming between factions.
Of course, that was back in the days when guilds were much more long-term and loyal.
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I wouldn't have an issue of TES using factions, if not for the fact it felt forced.
Instead of imposing some lore-twisters to justify why you don't want "X" next to "Y" or "W", just give players a choice as to what faction to join. Lay out what each faction stands for in the beginner-friendly areas, then LET them choose which group to join and when.
Kind of like in Skyrim. I could join the Imperials as some fresh-faced Nord newby in weak leathers, or wait to join them when my character is a walking pillar of badarsery, decked out in Legendary Dragonplate and Daedric weaponry, slicing the heads off every fool that stepped up to him with little effort or slaying dragons with but a single blow (true story btw).
Or heck, never join them at all. I keep my allegiance nuetral and do as I please, something someone MIGHT want to do in an online environment if the PvP doesn't interest them.
I wouldn't have an issue of TES using factions, if not for the fact it felt forced.
Instead of imposing some lore-twisters to justify why you don't want "X" next to "Y" or "W", just give players a choice as to what faction to join. Lay out what each faction stands for in the beginner-friendly areas, then LET them choose which group to join and when.
Kind of like in Skyrim. I could join the Imperials as some fresh-faced Nord newby in weak leathers, or wait to join them when my character is a walking pillar of badarsery, decked out in Legendary Dragonplate and Daedric weaponry, slicing the heads off every fool that stepped up to him with little effort or slaying dragons with but a single blow (true story btw).
Or heck, never join them at all. I keep my allegiance nuetral and do as I please, something someone MIGHT want to do in an online environment if the PvP doesn't interest them.
Hey Zenimax! You guys listening? This is what players want! Do this!
I know a lot of people, especially former DAOC players have been wanting to see this in a new MMO, to each his own, but coming from someone whose first MMO was DAOC, I haven't forgotten that there were downsides to splitting every server's population into three factions. I mean, was there any server in that game that had a fair realm balance? All I remember were over half the servers had Albion stomping all over the PvP zones with 100 man zergs every night, maybe 1-3 where Hibernia had just enough to put up a fight, and Midgard was pretty much just an RP free farm for the other 2 realms. One of the worst memories I had though is when they brought in the "classic" servers back in 2005, I remember at peak hours, there was a total of around 3600 online total, and when I ran a quick in game search, only about 800 of them were in my realm. When you really think about it, only being able to interact with roughly 1/4th of the entire population on your server is kind of depressing. I didn't realize it until I had settled on that server, and there were no such thing as server transfers back then.
But the absolute worst thing about these factions is the exclusive races. This is just really unfair and harmful in my opinion. Because now if you want to play this game with a friend/spouse/family, then your options for choosing a race are very restricted, much moreso than WoW. And this is Elder Scrolls, just about everyone whose followed the series has declared their loyalty to their favorite race.
I disagree completely.
3 Factions is the absolute best way to handle one side being overpopulated. The only other way to do it is to have 1 faction and have players choose a faction to join but this is idiotic IMO because its stupid that if I am playing a Breton to fight other Bretons. This way when I see a race I know he is either a friend or foe.
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by Cursedsei
I wouldn't have an issue of TES using factions, if not for the fact it felt forced.
Instead of imposing some lore-twisters to justify why you don't want "X" next to "Y" or "W", just give players a choice as to what faction to join. Lay out what each faction stands for in the beginner-friendly areas, then LET them choose which group to join and when.
Kind of like in Skyrim. I could join the Imperials as some fresh-faced Nord newby in weak leathers, or wait to join them when my character is a walking pillar of badarsery, decked out in Legendary Dragonplate and Daedric weaponry, slicing the heads off every fool that stepped up to him with little effort or slaying dragons with but a single blow (true story btw).
Or heck, never join them at all. I keep my allegiance nuetral and do as I please, something someone MIGHT want to do in an online environment if the PvP doesn't interest them.
Hey Zenimax! You guys listening? This is what players want! Do this!
The best thing you can do is suspend reasoning that this is an Elder Scrolls MMO and pretend like its a generic MMO and base the game on its own merits
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I don't understand why so many games even have to have factions. I had my most fun playing back on the original Rallos Zek server back in EQ. Any race could group and guild with any other race, the guilds made the factions. I wish more games would go back to that type of community interaction.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I know a lot of people, especially former DAOC players have been wanting to see this in a new MMO, to each his own, but coming from someone whose first MMO was DAOC, I haven't forgotten that there were downsides to splitting every server's population into three factions. I mean, was there any server in that game that had a fair realm balance? All I remember were over half the servers had Albion stomping all over the PvP zones with 100 man zergs every night, maybe 1-3 where Hibernia had just enough to put up a fight, and Midgard was pretty much just an RP free farm for the other 2 realms. One of the worst memories I had though is when they brought in the "classic" servers back in 2005, I remember at peak hours, there was a total of around 3600 online total, and when I ran a quick in game search, only about 800 of them were in my realm. When you really think about it, only being able to interact with roughly 1/4th of the entire population on your server is kind of depressing. I didn't realize it until I had settled on that server, and there were no such thing as server transfers back then.
But the absolute worst thing about these factions is the exclusive races. This is just really unfair and harmful in my opinion. Because now if you want to play this game with a friend/spouse/family, then your options for choosing a race are very restricted, much moreso than WoW. And this is Elder Scrolls, just about everyone whose followed the series has declared their loyalty to their favorite race.
I disagree completely.
3 Factions is the absolute best way to handle one side being overpopulated. The only other way to do it is to have 1 faction and have players choose a faction to join but this is idiotic IMO because its stupid that if I am playing a Breton to fight other Bretons. This way when I see a race I know he is either a friend or foe.
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by Cursedsei
I wouldn't have an issue of TES using factions, if not for the fact it felt forced.
Instead of imposing some lore-twisters to justify why you don't want "X" next to "Y" or "W", just give players a choice as to what faction to join. Lay out what each faction stands for in the beginner-friendly areas, then LET them choose which group to join and when.
Kind of like in Skyrim. I could join the Imperials as some fresh-faced Nord newby in weak leathers, or wait to join them when my character is a walking pillar of badarsery, decked out in Legendary Dragonplate and Daedric weaponry, slicing the heads off every fool that stepped up to him with little effort or slaying dragons with but a single blow (true story btw).
Or heck, never join them at all. I keep my allegiance nuetral and do as I please, something someone MIGHT want to do in an online environment if the PvP doesn't interest them.
Hey Zenimax! You guys listening? This is what players want! Do this!
The best thing you can do is suspend reasoning that this is an Elder Scrolls MMO and pretend like its a generic MMO and base the game on its own merits
It can still have three factions, they just don't have to be forced on players based on race.
As for your sentiment in blue, that IS probably the best way to look at it, but then why would anyone play it?
I don't understand why so many games even have to have factions. I had my most fun playing back on the original Rallos Zek server back in EQ. Any race could group and guild with any other race, the guilds made the factions. I wish more games would go back to that type of community interaction.
Here are a few problems that your alternative can cause:
* One guild/alliance dominating the whole server.
* Smaller "large-scale" battles compare to those in 3-faction warfare.
* Less incentive to protect strangers, while in properly designed 3-faction warfares, you have reason to protect those from your own faction even if you don''t know them.
I don't understand why so many games even have to have factions. I had my most fun playing back on the original Rallos Zek server back in EQ. Any race could group and guild with any other race, the guilds made the factions. I wish more games would go back to that type of community interaction.
Here are a few problems that your alternative can cause:
* One guild/alliance dominating the whole server.
* Smaller "large-scale" battles compare to those in 3-faction warfare.
* Less incentive to protect strangers, while in properly designed 3-faction warfares, you have reason to protect those from your own faction even if you don''t know them.
Hrm, I don't see these as problems. I see these making the game more dynamic and fluid, and less predictable and repetitive. No more boring "red is dead" mindlessness. You actually have to assess each potential enemy or friend individually.
I don't understand why so many games even have to have factions. I had my most fun playing back on the original Rallos Zek server back in EQ. Any race could group and guild with any other race, the guilds made the factions. I wish more games would go back to that type of community interaction.
Here are a few problems that your alternative can cause:
* One guild/alliance dominating the whole server.
* Smaller "large-scale" battles compare to those in 3-faction warfare.
* Less incentive to protect strangers, while in properly designed 3-faction warfares, you have reason to protect those from your own faction even if you don''t know them.
Hrm, I don't see these as problems. I see these making the game more dynamic and fluid, and less predictable and repetitive. No more boring "red is dead" mindlessness. You actually have to assess each potential enemy or friend individually.
well for those with experience in playing games where factions and clans are community based knows that large dominating guilds do exist but they do not last. The only reason a large zerg will own a server is becuase the server wants it to be so. Let me explain.
1. If the server is large a highly active Zergs will not last long and in fact, their defeat in many different forms from secret alliances, internal spies and just falling on their own weight provides from much good 'lore' in the game which is free for the developers to create. Additionally the overhead involved in maintaining a zerg on a server where its not wanted is a lot of unpleasant work.
2. If the server has been around for a long time or suffers from low population then Zergs have a good chance of remaining. but again ,the only reason they remain is because most of the server dont care. if they did care they would bring it down. One clan leader or one small group of clan leaders will not control a large server for a long time if the server doesnt want it.
3. On those servers where zergs are long term because the server is low pop or because everyone knows everyone its not uncommon for those zergs to change up structure so that they can have combats to keep things intresting.
The main point is this, zergs dont last because its hella work to maintain.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by lizardbones @seanmcad - Eve's large, persistant 'zergs'.
fair enough I havent played EvE and in all fairness I havent played many different MMOs of the type I am refering to to really have strong evidence on my claims. HAVING SAID THAT, I submit the following.
1. isnt EvE ridiculously succesful over the long haul? Isnt the EvE overall structure basically an example of a good design rather than a bad design?
2. could it be as I suggest which is that overall the server is actually happy with the zergs and if they were not they would fight them off. Its hard to be a ruler when nobody on your server wants to be ruled.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I remember pre-launch SWTOR when the dev's announced there will be no third "neutral" faction folks were up in arms, TESO dev's announces 3 factions folks are up in arms 0.o
Whatever the lore says is what they should stick to but I guess that's why they're making this as a prequel like SWTOR. So they can change up story a bit.
I'll just be happy if the game is worth playing, much less the specifics.
Comments
factions are a silly game function as far as I am concerned but what REALLY floors me is the PR team calling a 3 faction system 'innovative' feature.
crack smokers!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
factions are a stupid idea imo, why couldnt they let players create their own alliances/factions themselves by grouping up with multiple guilds just like games like EVE online etc.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
^ If that's how PVP truly turns out, I will not play for long. I want to be able to travel to enemy areas and hunt people leveling or climb a building and wait to shoot arrows at passerbys like in Cotswold outside Camelot in DAOC. This game should not have instanced pvp, or any instances for that matter.
Dragnon - Guildmaster - Albion Central Bank in Albion Online
www.albioncentralbank.enjin.com
if you dont like it why play at all? playing for any length of time is buying the game which is in turn supporting their game.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
I will just wait and see how it pan out.
The OP might have a point because the races are tied to the factions. If any race has a more evil/dark feel to them, then that will probably become the more popular choice.
But it also depends on how PVP is going to be set up I guess.
Balance is a huge issue for any game with 2 or 3 factions yes. 5 would really be better but we don´t know if ESO will try to balance this in some way or not yet.
Yeah in my opinion factions should be somethign optional that you can choose to joim leave, or even betray, but not somethign that should be a mandatory thing you join to play the game. Kinda like how in old D&D game settings you have the Harpers, the wizards of thray, and such that were factions (of pretty high degrees of control in the world.) yet they were not something you had to join to experince the game. I got to say doing this where the players regardless of race )maybe put a race lock out on some groups o factions.) could seek out and join these group to add more depth to the pvp in the game, and even more lore or info on what i shappening in the game would be intrresting, and also make the players feel they actually have a say in what they can do in the game more. The same is here with the three factions of eos in that i think you should be either to betray the faction you choose at the start by traveling to the other side, or by merely having a questline that allows you to seek them out at a point without hdaving to choose on at creation.
Ahhh Mordred, how I miss you. Yeah, Shadowclan was a joke. It was cool how they all adopted a language, I guess... But they got stomped by anyone and everyone. Who was your toon? If you were top 1% I probably knew you.
Of course, that was back in the days when guilds were much more long-term and loyal.
Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
I wouldn't have an issue of TES using factions, if not for the fact it felt forced.
Instead of imposing some lore-twisters to justify why you don't want "X" next to "Y" or "W", just give players a choice as to what faction to join. Lay out what each faction stands for in the beginner-friendly areas, then LET them choose which group to join and when.
Kind of like in Skyrim. I could join the Imperials as some fresh-faced Nord newby in weak leathers, or wait to join them when my character is a walking pillar of badarsery, decked out in Legendary Dragonplate and Daedric weaponry, slicing the heads off every fool that stepped up to him with little effort or slaying dragons with but a single blow (true story btw).
Or heck, never join them at all. I keep my allegiance nuetral and do as I please, something someone MIGHT want to do in an online environment if the PvP doesn't interest them.
Hey Zenimax! You guys listening? This is what players want! Do this!
I disagree completely.
3 Factions is the absolute best way to handle one side being overpopulated. The only other way to do it is to have 1 faction and have players choose a faction to join but this is idiotic IMO because its stupid that if I am playing a Breton to fight other Bretons. This way when I see a race I know he is either a friend or foe.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
op is new to mmos
Play on a coop server then...
I don't understand why so many games even have to have factions. I had my most fun playing back on the original Rallos Zek server back in EQ. Any race could group and guild with any other race, the guilds made the factions. I wish more games would go back to that type of community interaction.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
It can still have three factions, they just don't have to be forced on players based on race.
As for your sentiment in blue, that IS probably the best way to look at it, but then why would anyone play it?
Here are a few problems that your alternative can cause:
* One guild/alliance dominating the whole server.
* Smaller "large-scale" battles compare to those in 3-faction warfare.
* Less incentive to protect strangers, while in properly designed 3-faction warfares, you have reason to protect those from your own faction even if you don''t know them.
Hrm, I don't see these as problems. I see these making the game more dynamic and fluid, and less predictable and repetitive. No more boring "red is dead" mindlessness. You actually have to assess each potential enemy or friend individually.
well for those with experience in playing games where factions and clans are community based knows that large dominating guilds do exist but they do not last. The only reason a large zerg will own a server is becuase the server wants it to be so. Let me explain.
1. If the server is large a highly active Zergs will not last long and in fact, their defeat in many different forms from secret alliances, internal spies and just falling on their own weight provides from much good 'lore' in the game which is free for the developers to create. Additionally the overhead involved in maintaining a zerg on a server where its not wanted is a lot of unpleasant work.
2. If the server has been around for a long time or suffers from low population then Zergs have a good chance of remaining. but again ,the only reason they remain is because most of the server dont care. if they did care they would bring it down. One clan leader or one small group of clan leaders will not control a large server for a long time if the server doesnt want it.
3. On those servers where zergs are long term because the server is low pop or because everyone knows everyone its not uncommon for those zergs to change up structure so that they can have combats to keep things intresting.
The main point is this, zergs dont last because its hella work to maintain.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
fair enough I havent played EvE and in all fairness I havent played many different MMOs of the type I am refering to to really have strong evidence on my claims. HAVING SAID THAT, I submit the following.
1. isnt EvE ridiculously succesful over the long haul? Isnt the EvE overall structure basically an example of a good design rather than a bad design?
2. could it be as I suggest which is that overall the server is actually happy with the zergs and if they were not they would fight them off. Its hard to be a ruler when nobody on your server wants to be ruled.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I remember pre-launch SWTOR when the dev's announced there will be no third "neutral" faction folks were up in arms, TESO dev's announces 3 factions folks are up in arms 0.o
I'll just be happy if the game is worth playing, much less the specifics.