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Why Diablo 3 skill system is change for the good
Lobotomist
Member EpicPosts: 5,981
When I first seen the D3 skill system I was very much against it. I also posted few angry posts here criticising it.
You unlock all skills by leveling up , just like WOW 
They removed rune slots !
It did sound like huge dumbing down. And maybe it still is. But there is great gameplay benefit.
So stay awile and listen 
I am big fan of H&S games and have played them all , and many times.
There are 2 gameplay elements that can make the game or ruin it , and they are not emidiately apparent :
1. Variety of monster tactics and abilities - Each monster should present new chalenge and new way of approach. If all monsters just run at you and hit. The game will have dull gameplay (as POE fails to understand)
But more important for us :
2. Skills should be different and varied -
For example if you have two skills on skill tree - One is doing some kind of damage , and other is also doing some kind of damage (just with different animation) - than what is the point ? Yet many games fall for this - Torchlight most notably. Look at the skill tree and notice that most of the skills do basically same, but with different animation.
->
Now In Diablo 3
Not only that each skill does completely different thing. And has completely different gameplay utility. But with runes you can even modify their GAMEPLAY effect even further (for example - making it AOE, or DPS, or Snare ... etc)
So each skill has important gameplay utility
They are not just DMG 1 and DMG 2
...
But further on , what Diablo 3 lets you do is to customise yourself for each encounter !
You can rebuild your skill output to deal with nasty swarm of slowing ice bats. And next rebuild skill output to deal with though armored resistant giant boss monster.
---
Instead playing one build to nauseum - You are playing all builds !
Gameplay = Fun !
You are not forced to play whole game with your Ice sorceress , now you can be any kind of sorceress - when you want !
There you go
Comments
Yep.
D3 still has it flaws. But skill system is definetly not one of them
Nice post-thanks!
Hooray for fun gameplay!
No. Just. No.
One of the key points of hack'n'slash games is the fact that you customise your character and lock into it. It's one of the key cornerstones of the genre. You make your decisions and live with them, for better and for worse. It allows variety in terms of character play, and means you can play the same character multiple times to build him completely differently.
This is the complete opposite of what Blizzard are doing. They're making a system for little kids so they don't feel bad when they put a skillpoint out of place. It's Call of Duty's system, for all intents and purposes. If you don't think that, with D3, Blizzard are making a hack'n'slash for the Call of Duty generation you are severely in denial.
There's no investment of effort, no requirement to see your character grow. It's just plug in and play.
If you don't think that, with removing character customisation, Blizzard have basically neutered one of the core parts of the hack'n'slash genre, you're out of your mind on fanboyism.
It's that simple.
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Ok ...
First of Blizzard invented the skill tree. So if anyone is allowed to break it , its them.
Second , I hear you and agree with you ... but
I do not have time i once had.
I can not afford to build whirlwind barbarian. Level it up to 60. And than level shield barbarian to 60. And so on.
This times are way behind me.
Now maybe some miss the grind. I dont.
I love the skills - the more the better. And I dont want to start new character , just so i can try them out on some boss monster at Inferno !
So we can go google up the only viable build nad copy it...yeeaaa so much fun. I love D2 but its skill system sucked
I actually like the new skill system along with the gem customisation more than D2's, for my own reasons, but i don't expect you to share them either. The only thing i miss about d2 are the charms
The times, they are a changing and, in my opinion, for the better.
I'm glad we're moving on from the days of playing dozens of hours on a toon to realize that you borked up your stats or skills and now have a lame toon that is now only good as a mule.
As the OP said, more focus on fun, less work.
Umm, no. If you find getting up to Hell difficulty only to find out that you need to reroll and do it all over again because the build you tried is completely useless fun, then you'd probably enjoy paying someone to smash you in the head with a brick. Locking people into their choices does nothing but encourage cookie cutter builds. If you think otherwise, then YOU'RE clearly the one in denial.
D3's skill system allows for an incredible amount of customization, without fear of permanently gimping your character. You can experiment all you want, trying different combinations of skills & runes to your heart's content. That is the way a skill system should work, instead of forcing you to delete and restart.
With a system such as D3's, there are literally thousands of perfectly viable builds per class, as opposed to Diablo 2's 5, maybe 6. You are free to find the build which works for you. Some builds will be optimal, but all of them will be VIABLE.
If you think this system is inferior to D2's rigid 'this build or you suck' system, then you are out of your mind on nostalgia (and possibly hardcore drugs).
It's that simple.
By what law? Who has established this rule and where can I find the "official" rulestone?
I see as the only key cornerstones of hack'n'slash games the hacking and slahing, other than that, please bring us new and fresh systems and mechanics.
Awesome post Lobo. Instead of forcing people to spend half time on different websites for planning and half time ingame, Blizzard took the challenge brought by D2's totally counter-intuitive character customisation and transferred it into the actual gameplay.
If you need to alt tab and look up a formula or build or trading website then the game isn’t simple enough. This frustrates many of the more self-proclaimed "hardcore" players who derive artificial game lengthening from convoluted systems and inefficient design. A small portion of the player base loves confusing implementations. It allows them to create artificial gaps between themselves and other (less studied) players. If you like games that have these gaps, you probably won’t like Diablo 3.
Agree with the OP. First it was strange a little then I realized:
I'm a fan of changing skills/builds on the fly and not locked into one.
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While I don't agree with most of the stuff you're posting, I do agree that D2 had a lot of builds. Anyone who says that there were only 5-6 viable builds in D2 is completely out of his mind.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
i managed to get a ce for retail, so ya ill be there, gonna roll a dps monk, exploding palm and hundred fists all the way hehe. o an 7 sided strike, cause that looks badass in the videos. /drool
I am very pleased with their decision.
The new skill format not only allows for flexibility, but it also encourages you to try out differenct crazy builds and play as close as you like it (viable builds as opposed to best builds, as Blizzard themselves have said).
In turn, this will be less tiresome and boring, as you can play your class less conventionally whenever you feel like doing it -- for a change.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
The reason I say that is because so many games that have come out in the past years have pretty much straight up copied their skill trees (not skill for skill but design wise). They all thought they had to use the WoW template for a skill tree.
Now Blizzard is saying "you know what? This thing is old and dumb. We think there is a better way."
Games like SWTOR and damn near every themepark game have used it. Now they are going to look antiquated by comparison.
Skill trees don't add depth to a game. They never have. It's just an arbitrary mechanic that served the purpose of customizing your character. Putting 3 points into this skill and 2 into another one isn't necessary.
Skill trees are (especially when you can't respec) are the cause of cookie cutter builds because they are inherently flawed in the sense that they provide a system that is begging to be min/maxed. Every single game that follows this formula suffers from cookie cutter builds.
I'm not saying D3 will eliminate cookie cutterism. What it will do is give people the freedom to experiment and find out what they like instead of beig forced to find out what works best.
Another game that impressed me greatly in this department is TSW. their skill wheel gives you a ton of freedom to figure out how you want to build your character. It really is a breath of fresh air in the themepark genre.
Blizzard is innovating in a way that solves a problem that has plagued online RPGs and MMOs for a long time. I for one couldn't be happier about it. Skill trees are boring.
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Its indeed ironical.
And when it proves to work , all those companies will start copying new skill tree !
Like nothing happened
But kudos to Blizz not being affraid to inovate, even if it means killing their own invention.
I don't get it, what's stopping you from playing with whacky druid builds and other odd builds? The beauty of the new system is that you aren't locked into it forever.
You won't constantly running your friends through normal and nightmare etc so they can just TRY out a build they probably won't even like. Doing that over and over is something you miss from D2? Having to reroll a character and poewrlevel him just to try something out?
That wasn't fun - At all.
I'm sorry, but according to whom? Nox, a notable Hack&Slash that came out in 2000 and still has quite a few fans (one of the best games I played, really), has no customization. 0. Nada. Zilch. Every time you level, you have nothing to do for your character at all. The best you can do is pick which skills are easier to access by hotkeys (lol).
Great post OP. I would like to add that D3's implentation of skills prevents gimping. Sure you had more skill choices in D2 but there was always a few good builds and many many gimped builds. So really, you had less choice than D3 where you can experience many types of gameplay on one character and they all do well.
Remember Old School Ultima Online
2 things to add.
The new system might make PvP interesting. Opponent has a superior build to you? Change it to try to counter him. Becomes a bit like an RTS with counter-play opportunities.
Although it hasn't been expressed here, a lot of people like the idea of skill trees because they provide a sense of permanence and thus identity. The guy with Hydra spam had a strong identity, because he was pretty much the only one doing this. In my experience in the D3 beta, this sense of identity did not go away and in fact became evident much earlier because although it's not permanent, there are WAY more customization options in D3. If you like creating a specific theme for a build, you will stick to it in D3 as long as it is viable. If you are looking for an optimal build, you will look it up online. In this manner, D3 and D2 are exactly the same. It just doesn't seem that way.
You old schooler die-hards need to get over it. The entire industry is growing and changing, for the better...Attracting new and MORE players, etc. This is a great thing. No new players means no new games. Period.
If you cannot see why video games need to evolve or change, go bury your head in the sand and keep playing Diablo 2. Its still there, and its still going. You can also disconnect from the internet and stop posting on forums. Do you remember computers before internet? There were still games. And they were still fun.
Credit should go to Guild Wars 1 on this one (i.e. companies have alreayd copied it). No skill trees, just hundreds of skills you can customize per mission/match. It influenced the skill systems of both Diablo 3 and The Secret World.
Yes. The limit of eight skills at the same time makes sure that you have to think about your loadout. That is more depth then the skilltree system. The one thing that Guild Wars 2 does better, is that they give you the option of choosing skill 7-9 in your own order, instead of handing them out to you at certain points. It gives a little bit of customization, which is nice. Ultimately you still get everything, so the endgame is all fair.
It can make the game also more difficult, because they don't have to tune it to make every build work. otherwise you get situation that one build roflstomps their way through most of the game, then it gets nerfed and some other build gets randomly overpowered. Everyone at Inferno has every skill and thus it makes for easier balance. It sounds really fun
When I find this in the official definition of Hack and Slash games I'll take you seriously. Until then it's just a really misguided opinion.