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Possible Scandal or Insipid GMs?
//\//\oo
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,767
My Response to my permanent account closure due to
"teleportation hacking".. instead of rewrite for forums just c & p
To whom this may concern,
I am a full-time student with a part-time job that has been paying for this game independently since it's release: I had so anticipated this game that I pre-ordered it 3-4 weeks before it was available in stores (without having played it or been able to participate in the open beta since I was on a 56k connection).
I am not trying to pander to emotions, but to reveal to you how disgusted I am with your company's absurd notion of "rigor" and why I am so incensed about your vapid accusations:
Being on a 56k connection with latencies in the 500-700 range, there are often instances where my commands no longer respond (I am guessing that it is because your server does not receive packets sent from the program?) and I often end up waiting for 5-15 minutes (or less) for the server to respond.
I noticed that by moving and attacking different targets, that I would have less waiting time... (maybe this is because it was a means of sending packets continuously to the server? I don't know...) This might be why there were discrepancies between the last packet the server received and the packet received there-after......
If the inviduals that were responsible for reviewing the logs had bothered to notice... the intervals that contained the discrepancies were within only a few 5-10 minute intervals OVER 3-8 hours of play time..... meaning that the use of a "teleport hack" or whatever you're accusing me of would not be a valid accusation... or else I would have used it ONCE within a 3hr interval? ....
I also would disconnect often in the auction house...meaning that I would click on the list of prices for certain items and they would not display... and would then log on only to find myself on the zeppelin or in a different zone. I am only guessing that these are the reasons for the accusations.... but having NEVER USED NOR CREATED (NOT EVEN THE ENDORSED KOSMOS) A WOW MOD I wouldn't know....
Ironically, I have been having this problem for eons... since the launch, although less frequently once I switched to a server with a small population.
Yet... you suspend/terminate my account once you implement the "Permanent" closure policy... without adequate proof or intelligent justification.
Is this your means of rooting out the 56k users before the implementation of Battle Grounds (as raiding has been impossible as it is to 56k users)....?
..... (what follows was not sent to blizzard)
There you have it... I have played WoW since release and was banned instantly... I am angry and disappointed at blizzard...
I have never had an MMORPG experience as gratifying as that of WoW.... but it was cut short by faulty administration...... let this be a warning to prospective 56k users......
Guess I'll just have to wait till DnL and GW
P.S : If you happened to have the same experience (of being accused of using mods when you didn't) please respond to this thread in order to give credence. I am still in shock at losing my account with my lvl 51 character.......
I am guessing, by symmetry, that I am not the only user that will be a victim.
"Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Comments
Okay dude, I've read the official WoW forums, I saw how dozens of people have been permanently banned. And according to the people in-game, THEY WERE CHEATERS!
Am I accusing you of cheating?
Hmm... lemme think... sure why not.
They all got banned, they were p1ssed, so they are trying to ruin Blizzard's reputation by saying they did nothing wrong when they really did.
Blizzard isn't stupid. If they see you are doing something wrong, they will know, they've always been able to know.
How many of those banned whinners came to the forums saying: "I'm using my wife's account to post this since I got banned".
Do I sense a 2nd account BOT by any chance?
Uh oh!!! Caught red handed!
It's like that guildmate we had last month, he got his mount at level 40, he had tones of Blue Items equipped and kept showing them off. All of a sudden he disapeared from the Server. We all knew he was an Ebay-whore. Crime doesn't pay, he got owned by Blizzard.
___________ ___ __ _ _ _
Stealth - Ambush - Hemorrhage - Sinister Strike x2 - Cold Blood - Eviscerate - Vanish - Preparation - Cold Blood - Ambush - ... you're dead! :P
Haha....
Well here is my char data:
Lvl 51 Orc Rogue: Butasama
Server: Stonemaul
Guild: Forgotten Legacy
Most of the horde (around 50-60) know me on that server and NEVER have I been reported for using hacks.
A never in all of my chat logs gave coords or used any of the scripting for kosmos (which COULD BE VERIFIED IF Somebody with a brain bigger than a peanut could access them) ... which kind of implies that I never used third party programs of any sort...
What logic is there using a "teleportation hack" and not having used the best third-party program available?
I could care less about whether you believe me or not, but take pleasure in seeing that you have so much faith in blizzard... I hope you are the next victim.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
I have only dual boxed in 1 game, everquest 1, and I can't ever remeber a time where the group I was with complained. I would really like to hear how that is "cheating". I am getting what I pay for, 2 accounts. I have not done it since, I don't feel the inclination too with any current game I am playing, hate me if you like, but it was a game and I was having fun, and within the rules of the game.
Hacking, using 3 party apps, all that good stuff, THAT would be cheating, dual boxing is NOT, and its not a BOT, its me using the mouse and keyboard just like I do on the first account while I play. Now if I had used third party apps to automate a character such as you can do in AC 1, that would be a bot, is that what you mean when you accused him of running a bot? If so I retract everything I said and apologise.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I have only dual boxed in 1 game, everquest 1, and I can't ever remeber a time where the group I was with complained. I would really like to hear how that is "cheating". I am getting what I pay for, 2 accounts. I have not done it since, I don't feel the inclination too with any current game I am playing, hate me if you like, but it was a game and I was having fun, and within the rules of the game.
Hacking, using 3 party apps, all that good stuff, THAT would be cheating, dual boxing is NOT, and its not a BOT, its me using the mouse and keyboard just like I do on the first account while I play. Now if I had used third party apps to automate a character such as you can do in AC 1, that would be a bot, is that what you mean when you accused him of running a bot? If so I retract everything I said and apologise.
I thought he made it pretty clear he WAS NOT using any 3rd party programs, even endorsed ones such as cosmos. He wasn't cheating in any way that I can see, unless he is lying and he was breaking the rules in some way, I sypathize with him, and i see that blizzard did make a mistake.
Emailed the former (first post I made) to Billing@blizzard.com
Tried calling... they gave me some email address along the lines of
wowaccountadmin@blizzard.com
I got something wrong... but then again I spent one hour on 1-800-59-BLIZZARD... only to have the
guy hear one sentence, give me a recording and hang up.....
Going to try the new address.... but have not yet heard from Billing yet....
***Notice of Account Closure***
Hello,
After thorough review, this account has been identified through in-game
logs as having used an unauthorized game modification
(Teleportation/Speed hack) to move great distances, at highly accelerated speeds not
normally achievable through regular game play. Use of this third-party
program is in direct violation of the World of Warcraft Terms of Use and
as a result, the World of Warcraft account has been permanently closed.
Please review the World of Warcraft Terms of Use at
<http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html>, which you
accepted when you installed World of Warcraft and established the account.
Section 2, Paragraph C details the limitations of game play
modifications and use of any third-party or "packet sniffing" software. In
addition, Section 3, Paragraph C, parts iii and iv restrict the use of any
hack, scripting or macroing software which obtains information from World
of Warcraft to gain a competitive advantage over other players.
In addition, any activities not intended by game design which affect
the economy, the client, player characters or the world itself have a
tremendous negative impact on the potential enjoyment for all players. The
effects of these activities take many forms including a bloated game
economy, server instability, and allowing unauthorized access to
accounts, computers, and player data.
As a result, this account will no longer be accessible and
unfortunately will not be reopened under any circumstances.
Thank you for your understanding in this matter and respecting our
position and all statutes within the World of Warcraft Terms of Use.
Regards,
Account Administration
Blizzard Entertainment
www.worldofwarcraft.com
Customer satisfaction is a top priority here at Blizzard Entertainment,
and we would like your feedback on the level of service you have
received. Please feel free to provide such feedback at the following web
address:
http://www.blizzard.com/support/?id=eSurvey000&i=230&d=3/1/2005 7:18:15 PM&t=wowaccountadmin@blizzard.com
Translation: We closed your account and there is sh*t you can do about it.
Blizzard must be denying that it's fallible, since it has an "under no circumstances"
clause... so.... even if they did make an error (which they did... either that or a
mistake in analyzing the logs) your account is closed permanently.
No warning was issued, just a nice boot...
New theory: Blizzard is run by a bunch of Nazis
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Im not a big network guru, but I believe its fairly impossible to comnfuse lag with packet changing software. To my knowledge, packets (small chunks of data being sent and received over the inet) can be intercepted and manipulated. For example, if you are in coord 1000, 2000 and you move one step ahead, you should be at coord 1001, 2000. but if you use a packet-sniffer to intercept, read and modify the packet, u actualy change the 1001 into lets say 1100 and send that to server so in WoW reality u actualy made one giant leap forward, aka teleport hacking or speed hacking or whatever.
Like i said, my knowledge is limited but this is what I think happend. If anyone knows a better explanation please confirm or deny my logic, im curious to know the truth.
Peace
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Hacks don't exist in Blizzard's games.
----------------------------------
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
pffff Im looking in EQ2 now thx Blizzard
I believe they do, since that dude was banned for using one (according to Bliz). The only difference from other companies is that Blizz actualy doing something about it, and not letting it ruin the game. I personaly have not seen anything remotely to hacking in WoW.
Peace
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I am, and he didnt say he was charged with altering packets, he said he was charged with teleporting which doesn't sound like packet tampering but since thats all that was explained its hard to say. Your explanation of packet altering is a pretty fair one, but its not always so easy to tell if its been altered or not, you can't even always tell at all just by looking at the data.
Lag however would make abit more sense, because the server is losing connection with him for a certain amount of time then all the sudden after a minute he finally gets a response back from the server and they play catch up, and so on. This type of an issue is common with firewalls that aren' configured properly, I could see how dial up would do it. Is he innocent, very hard to say, but its possible what he is saying is legit.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I was directly responding to a single post and not to the OP, he did state he wasn't.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I am, and he didnt say he was charged with altering packets, he said he was charged with teleporting which doesn't sound like packet tampering but since thats all that was explained its hard to say. Your explanation of packet altering is a pretty fair one, but its not always so easy to tell if its been altered or not, you can't even always tell at all just by looking at the data.
Lag however would make abit more sense, because the server is losing connection with him for a certain amount of time then all the sudden after a minute he finally gets a response back from the server and they play catch up, and so on. This type of an issue is common with firewalls that aren' configured properly, I could see how dial up would do it. Is he innocent, very hard to say, but its possible what he is saying is legit.
Quoting Bliz letter posted by Moo: "Please review the World of Warcraft Terms of Use at
<http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html>, which you
accepted when you installed World of Warcraft and established the account.
Section 2, Paragraph C details the limitations of game play
modifications and use of any third-party or "packet sniffing" software"
It seems that they are pointing him towards the technical means how he achieved teleportation in WoW. If my logic is correct, they can distinguish between in game lag and packet modification smply by calculating distance traveled in a certain amount of time. Lets say if u lag out for 5 seconds u can travel as far as 10 feet, but if he laged out for 5 seconds and travel for 500 feet, its a certain indication of packet alteration. Do you agree?
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Completely, and that SEEMS like a sensible way, but thats all subject to how their application actually works. I have heard of people dieing and coming back to life at places that are at the other end of the globe, I don't know if thats true however. If it is though, then that method may be worthless because the application is not accurately tracking or the application itself is teleporting them. Does that make any sense at all, it gave me a headache thinking about it.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Happens in most online games, server has a "old"/wrong save of where the character should be resurected. Confusing lag with packet sniffing isnt possible (look at jimmymans replys), it more of a bad excuse.
First time I heard/found about it (packet sniffing/altering) was beta test 1 of Ragnarok Online, people used packet altering to buy a sword (Ring pummel saber) from npc:s (it was bugged so it couldnt be bought without packet altering).
Poorly/badly programmed mmorpg:s might confuse lag with speed hacks (doesnt have "compare" then "store value" of character "distance/grid value"). This is what "innocent" people try to claim so they seem unfairly accused.
and that COULD explain how a legitimate player was accused of using that particular hack. I have had such things happen to me in other MMO's, mainly EQ 1.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Yeah it makes sense. It happend to me once, I was in one place, then server went offline, i poped in another place where i was 20 minutes ago. If thats what you mean then its a simple time warp - server crashed and rolled back to its last saved position.
This whole thing is very hard to figure out since we dont know how Bliz tracks issues like that, nor do we know the truth. I work as a CSR in a telephone company, and Ive personaly solved many cases when customers claim one thing and in reality a totaly different thing was taking place(ex: when i asked a customer what did they hear after dialing a certain number the customer answered "nothing", after 30 minutes of testing phone line and connection, questioning client again he answered "oh yeah, i hear a buzz, but its nothing"). So I usualy stick with the company side because I believe they are professionals and they know what they are doing.
Call me an idealist, but when company claims somebody was hacking, i believe them. I dont think its an easy process to ban an account, so that rules out admin mistake. GMs have nothing to do with banning accounts for hacking becuase they are what the title say they are - Game Masters, they give in-game support, not technical support or networking
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Happens in most online games, server has a "old"/wrong save of where the character should be resurected. Confusing lag with packet sniffing isnt possible (look at jimmymans replys), it more of a bad excuse.
First time I heard/found about it (packet sniffing/altering) was beta test 1 of Ragnarok Online, people used packet altering to buy a sword (Ring pummel saber) from npc:s (it was bugged so it couldnt be bought without packet altering).
Poorly/badly programmed mmorpg:s might confuse lag with speed hacks (doesnt have "compare" then "store value" of character "distance/grid value"). This is what "innocent" people try to claim so they seem unfairly accused.
You may have a point from techical point of view, i dont have enough knowledge to confirm/deny, but judging from the game overall, wouldnt you agree that WoW is well written and that most likely the issue here is not bad coding but actualy player-misconduct?
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
MmMM, in blizzards case from having do deal with battle.net all those years it may not be so hard a process, and they also may have a bad perspective on the whole operation due to that. But I am not accusing them of that.
Here is a silly question though after reading the official forums today, don't it seem kinda odd that all the sudden there was a mass influx of this one particular abuse?
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Another thought. When you play and you lag out people see you as LD standing on one place. Theoreticaly, if on your side you were still moving your computer will show u somewhere else, but from server side you are still standing still. So, when u finaly are able to reconnect to server, which one will be true, your location on your puter or location that server had stored? I belive when you pop back from being LD you will port back to the place server stored and not the the place your puter stored.
This is just a theory though, im gonna have to test it live and probly record it on video. I will post results later on today when I come home and play WoW.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Depends, thats why AC 1 and 2 rubberband so bad, EQ 1 and 2 seem to use a queueing system, so you don't rubberband. I don't recall from beta ever seeing the game rubberband. But that is what I was originally poorly attempting to explain in my first post with lag. Especially using dial in, EQ 1 was horrible with dial in after luclin because they kept trying to up their security encryption.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
To give you guys some insight on the issue:
Blizzard still hasn't replied (billing simply reminded me that they are not responsible and I should contact wowaccountadmin@blizzard.com)
They have yet to reply....
Although I know nothing of networking, I think I have an idea of what the problem could be:
There were many instances where I would play and move around freely... while the server wasn't responding (replying to my packets sent)
I could click on another enemy.. but it refused to process (i.e. "another action is in progress")
I could change position, but the mobs/players wouldn't appear/engage etc.
It is possible that the packets sent from my computer during those intervals were simply lost and that the last packet received from my computer was a packet that contained information after I had moved from one position to another within the interval of the server NOT RECEIVING MY PACKETS.
So the previous position on the server and the current position would vary greatly.
What I emailed to blizzard essentially contained that argument and HOW THESE DISCREPANCIES WERE IRONICALLY OVER 10-15 MINUTE INTERVALS...... while my total playing time was around 3-8 hrs at a time.
Assuming I did teleport.... why did I only teleport once every 3-8 hrs.... over 10-15 minute intervals of standing still.....(since the last position that varied greatly from the previous position changed over a 10 minuteish interval!) ?
I essentially tried to make them review the data to see this pattern.....
So if my assumptions are correct, then the problem with the game is that the player is able to move around freely (send information packets) before receiving a reply (packet?) from the server.
I'm not into networking or any kind of applications (specifically), so that this is mostly speculation from my observations.
However, I am certain that IT IS POSSIBLE TO CHANGE POSITIONS BETWEEN INTERVALS BEFORE RECEIVING SOME KIND OF INPUT FROM THE SERVER.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
If somebody could please post my argument (and the arguments of others) that imply that IT IS QUITE POSSIBLE THAT MANY OF THE PLAYERS THAT WERE BANNED ARE INNOCENT on the worldofwarcraft.com forums
Since players whose accounts are suspended are not allowed to post on the forums.... (ironic again isn't it ?)
You would be doing all of us a tremendous favor... and if you ever come to the server
Stonemaul on the Horde side.
I promise you all of my possessions(that are not soulbound) and my abilities as a lvl 280 Elemental LW
Server: Stonemaul
Character Name: Butasama
Level, class, allegiance: 51(almost 52), Rogue, Horde
Guild: Forgotten Legacy
Please post on this forum with a link to your post so I can verify.
Of course I can only give you the stuff if I get my account reactivated lol...
In any case: You will be doing blizzard players (as well as Blizzard itself) a big favor by revealing it's flaw (refer to my previous post) .
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.