I've been playing WoW for about 2 months. I can say that without a doubt it has the most mature community I have come across in mmorpgs. I have had no problems with griefers or attempted griefers. I have only seen 3 beggars. The only, minor, irritant is the occasional pvper who comes to a role playing server and /attempts/ to irritate us by acting as if they don't understand what roleplaying is.
Those mmorpgs I've played or betaed include, but are not limited to, Asheron's Call 1 & 2, Everquest, EVE: online. Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, The Matrix Online. Wish, and now Warcraft. To repeat. WoW has been the most pleasant experience of playing mmorpgs that I have had.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
Originally posted by Harafnir Yes. Games are getting simpler by each release to cater to kids, instead of the loyal MMO players. So yes, MMOs are getting worse each year, to suit children or those with a childs mentality.
I agree with the childish mentality issue as the problem.
Yes, I am 15 years old, yes I love MMO's and yes my parents pay for my hobby. I am, however, also tired of being excluded from groups, guilds, and raids, because of age restrictions. I am fed up of "mature" gamers complaining about youth playing MMORPG, the problem is only with a small minority of young teens. Most people I come across that are annoying or ignorant are in fact in their early twenties with massize tempers low patience, and determination to be the best, wanting to annihalate everyone and everything. Most kids that are unwanted are just new people to the game that need help with certain things to get over the learning curve. Everyone in the MMORPG community was once a "noob" and everyone was aided in beginning their adventures to be the best. Maybe for once you should think of when you first began your MMO experience and how much you appreciated those who helped you. The problem with the MMORPG community is that they are unwilling to help the newcomers to games get over the hump.
Young kids ruining mmorpgs?!? C'mon we can't just blame the youngins, non-new adult players are in there too. Its not just them either people our age 16-21 having no experience with a character or the game for that matter and buy the account on e-bay and "F" up your exp. This has happen to me many times on EQ some newb wanted to join us our little hunt we run into some SH*T and he doesn't know the spells, I quit the game all together F O R E V E R!
So take it from me my gamers everyone can be a potential newbie, even the best of us were newbies.
Just be nice to them and hope the newb you meet is a fast learner I know when I play a new game I am the fastest mofo you will ever meet
________________________________ I must not fear, fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that leads to obliteration, I must permit fear to pass over me and through me. ________________________________
I think too less people help newbies these days. They either (a) laugh at them or (b) tell them to go away. If you help some every now and then, then there might be more and more mature players in MMOGs.
Sometimes I even dedicate a whole playing session just helping out one newbie that is confused and needs help.
Next time someone asks for help, just remember you were once a newbie too.
I try to help new players whenever I can. I want to see them mature into real gamers that will, in turn, help other new players when they get a foothold of the game and the cycle will continue. Being laughed at and/or made fun of or ignored/told to go away just makes you want to quit the game and you can never learn unless you actually experience something other than being rejected or told you are stupid.
Young kids don't neccesarily ruin MMO's but some of them just don't have the maturity like us "older" gamers, using the term lightly as I am only 20 years old myself. I have been playing MMO's for years and I too started out starry-eyed and wandering much like these young ones are, a helping hand does much more for maturity than does a blank stare or mocking glance.
Originally posted by Zipeh well we can't ban "kids" from gaming, and unless something magical happens kids are gona continue to be kids, until they become adults as they make a few more trips around the sun. kids arnt supposed to be well ajusted, well manered, fully socialised adults, they are kids; and as annoying as that can be sometime, better to remember ones youth and all the silly, foolish things one did and if that doesnt allow you to empathise then just ignore them. ralling against somehting that isnt going to change is a waste of energy and only likely to drive you to stop enjoying the game.
I totally agree.
While kids can spoil a good moment in a game, we cannot allow something which will never change to get in the way of our enjoyment of games in general. Kids will be kids!
I've been playing WoW for about 2 months. I can say that without a doubt it has the most mature community I have come across in mmorpgs. I have had no problems with griefers or attempted griefers. I have only seen 3 beggars. The only, minor, irritant is the occasional pvper who comes to a role playing server and /attempts/ to irritate us by acting as if they don't understand what roleplaying is. Those mmorpgs I've played or betaed include, but are not limited to, Asheron's Call 1 & 2, Everquest, EVE: online. Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, The Matrix Online. Wish, and now Warcraft. To repeat. WoW has been the most pleasant experience of playing mmorpgs that I have had.
Are you on crack?! WoW (compaired to all other games Ive played that have "gone gold") has the WORST community that I have ever seen.
The pinnacle of stupidity in this community is best explained by a quote in Ashenvale General chat: "I got charged $15 cuz I swore". Sigh.. Mixed with males who play fem Night Elves to /dance and ask for money, the homophobic acist children, the neverending stupid questions, and the MMO newbs who really dont have half a flippin clue wat theyre doing.. Its just not a nice place unless you have a predetermined group to do stuff with.
Good game, but too easy. So easy that its playable for morons. Thats why the community sucks.
EDIT: Any mediocre MMO in beta also has a horrible community. So many freeloading "kids" (as in, those with childish maturity lvls) flock to these.
Kinda applies in a way to WoW. Ppl who played Warcraft or Diablo (or possibly even Starcraft) decided to play it. BNET kiddies, can? >.>
EDIT Again: Seems youre from an RP server..? May be a bit more mature, cuz those kids get either warned or banned (or give up cuz they realize wat RP is). But even then, it's mostly young kids who try to be the "good" evil guy, or the "bad" good guy, or the "gangsta" ANYTHING. From wat I saw in RP servers, I was not impressed.
Originally posted by Jimbo I've said this before.And I'll say it again.You shouldn't stereotype certain players because of their age, being old or being young, it's all about the level of maturity within the person. I've seen idiot 30 year olds. and i've seen dedicated teenagers. It's all in the players attitude and level of maturity.
Totally agreed.
I said this the last time this kind of thread was made and all I got was flames telling me how it was just generalization, not stereotype, and how it's a fact that most immature players are kids. But of course the person never gave me any proof as to how "it's a fact that most immature players are kids" (something along those lines).
No matter how you look at it, it's stereotyping when you say "teenagers are the source of all the bad players".
I might have just over-reacted last time this was brought up, but seriously, I am sick and tired of all the stereotyping going on, no matter where I go in MMOGs, if I say "I'm 14 years old", I will almost automatically get a rejection from a guild or an insult from someone such as "lol! you got yer mommy to pay fer ya?".
It's called self-defense, and also trying to defend other kids my age who don't act immature.
Also, I'd bet if every kid that isn't immature and talks 1337 online doesn't talk about their age, then next to no one would figure out they are actually (insert their age here) years old. But I don't like to hide my age, because I want to get the most out of everyone's personality, I don't want to hang out with someone on an MMOG and 1 month later when I tell him my age, he suddenly changes his attitude towards me.
I've been playing WoW for about 2 months. I can say that without a doubt it has the most mature community I have come across in mmorpgs. I have had no problems with griefers or attempted griefers. I have only seen 3 beggars. The only, minor, irritant is the occasional pvper who comes to a role playing server and /attempts/ to irritate us by acting as if they don't understand what roleplaying is. Those mmorpgs I've played or betaed include, but are not limited to, Asheron's Call 1 & 2, Everquest, EVE: online. Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, The Matrix Online. Wish, and now Warcraft. To repeat. WoW has been the most pleasant experience of playing mmorpgs that I have had.
Are you on crack?! WoW (compaired to all other games Ive played that have "gone gold") has the WORST community that I have ever seen.
The pinnacle of stupidity in this community is best explained by a quote in Ashenvale General chat: "I got charged $15 cuz I swore". Sigh.. Mixed with males who play fem Night Elves to /dance and ask for money, the homophobic acist children, the neverending stupid questions, and the MMO newbs who really dont have half a flippin clue wat theyre doing.. Its just not a nice place unless you have a predetermined group to do stuff with.
Good game, but too easy. So easy that its playable for morons. Thats why the community sucks.
EDIT: Any mediocre MMO in beta also has a horrible community. So many freeloading "kids" (as in, those with childish maturity lvls) flock to these.
Kinda applies in a way to WoW. Ppl who played Warcraft or Diablo (or possibly even Starcraft) decided to play it. BNET kiddies, can? >.>
EDIT Again: Seems youre from an RP server..? May be a bit more mature, cuz those kids get either warned or banned (or give up cuz they realize wat RP is). But even then, it's mostly young kids who try to be the "good" evil guy, or the "bad" good guy, or the "gangsta" ANYTHING. From wat I saw in RP servers, I was not impressed.
no, he is not on crack. He was stating his opinion and evidently in his experience the WoW community wasn't so bad.
Evidently you had different experiences than him and me. So far the community is nothing worse or better than other games. with the exception that here, on the EU RP server i actually could RP in general chat about politics (in-game ones of course).
You are entitled to your opinions, but i sincerely think that to call all people that started their Mmorpg experiences with WoW, "Morons" is not a good way to become well accepted, don't you think? No, it is not for morons, they simply removed all the things a majority of old mmorpg players hated about. Downtime, Spending hours to camp a zone or waiting for groups and timesinks under every stone.
Yes, it made the game more mainstream, but some MMorpg players should get out of the Elitist mentality. More mainstream is a good thing! not bad! the more players plays, the better for everyone! Companies and gamers alike. It means bigger market, more money flowing in it, more companies will pick it up and make new games and niche, non-mainstream games, will become a viable possibility.
About the age factor, i know i wasn't behaving badly when i was a kid and playing UO, i was quite mature. I invite all the posters to recall those times and see how they were behaving, maturely or immaturely? (if you were playing Mmorpg at all).
Some kids, when they play online games, seek the approval of their peers or superiors in age and so will strive to behave like a good adult should. Others prolly don't. On the other hands, young adults like me, are perfectly aware of the nature of Mmorpgs as GAMES and treat them as such. Stressed by real life problems, work and what not, a MMorpg is a stress relief where your bottled anger or negative feeling can finally explode.... on the face of thousands of other, anonymous, invisible, people.
They are invisible, you do not know them, so they do not exist. It is a illogical reasoning and one we don't do consiously, but is still there.
In the end bad behaviour has been there since UO and meridian 59 and won't go away. With the enlargement of the market comes an influx of new players, both bad and good, and there is no avoiding that as we know this things works on statistics and in 100 people there are 10 jerks or something.
So ignore them, report them, try to help them or kill them repeateadly with a rubber duck. Pick one solution
Have a nice day
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Well i think problem is that many new mmorpg have sold on their trademark and brought in first timers.
I play WoW and though the EU community is not so horrible it still rates as one of the most annoying community in mmorpg history.
Simple reason is a vast majority have never ever played a mmorpg and simply have no idea how to behave.And fact remains if the majority behaves in a certain way chances are the player will consider this to be normal mmorpg behaviour and just continue.
In the past you had mmorpg like someone mentioned AO.This were players who came mostly from other mmorpg and knew how to behave and new players came and learnt the right way to behave.
I completely agree that a good community is extremely important when trying to enjoy a game, particularly those of the mmo category. Where my reluctance comes in is the profiling, I think that players are trying to simplify the problem too much. All of the irritating and immature players online are not "young" and all of the "young" players are not irritating and immature. This may sound strange, especially being posted on forums for a computer game, but I think the real issue is the image that society is painting for today's youth. Don't get me wrong, this image fits many young people like a glove. However, it is this kind of atitude that creates the problem to begin with, too many people side-step the responsibility that they have in shaping their community (both on and offline). Kids are conditioned into their role as pesky, arrogant and immaure players. If what people want is a stronger community, they have to stop "playing the game," do not argue back, do not step out of character, and for the love of God do not use their behavior as an excuse to become bitter and act simliarly to other players. An eye for an eye makes the whole community suck.
Originally posted by Xzaro I think too less people help newbies these days. They either (a) laugh at them or (b) tell them to go away. If you help some every now and then, then there might be more and more mature players in MMOGs. Sometimes I even dedicate a whole playing session just helping out one newbie that is confused and needs help.Next time someone asks for help, just remember you were once a newbie too.
That's where the problem in the "Solo MMORPG" philosophy is. It's attractive to people that don't want to socially interact other than the occasional "wtfpwning" of some "noobz0rz".
Look at a game in which grouping is required to progress at any reasonable rate. You'll find that people will tend to be more polite, because, after all, you might have to group with that person at some point. This isn't always the case, but I'd say that the average maturity in a grouping-based game is higher than that in a solo-based game, and I'd say that the average politeness is the same.
I'm sure you all have anecdotal evidence of this being wrong, but anecdotes don't prove a trend absolutely wrong.
Though my kids are older now we started as a gaming family involved in mmorpgs and watching what our kids were doing online while they were on line.
As a family in our guild we looked for "family guilds " that had similar interests that we do.
We grouped together and played together from everquest to daoc to swg.....
I do not think kids ruin the game, if parents keep an eye on what they are doing and acatuly peek in or involved with what they are doing online.
While i saw some behaviors early days of swg i never experianced else where due to the orginal "younger players there" in time each of the servers deveolped a community and the trash talkers settled down.
For any person looking to a mmorpg it is up to them to do the reading and see what type of over all community there is and either /ignore general chat switch servers or find a role playing server where certain behaviors are frowned upon.
I have seen adults behave just as badly as kids and it is a two way street. Though many folks follow treat folks as you wish to be treated not everyone does the same in real life or game life. However in whatever game or rl situation you find yourself if you surround yourself with others much of the above previous problems can be resolved.
I saw some bad behaviors even in eq 2 on certian quest mobs, so the game play itself can lead to squabbles, timed camps.... If the game itself offers multi places to camp/ hunt it is easier to just go someplace for a while if folks get to annoying.........
Originally posted by sycomidgit permadeath would spell death for any game. esp. a mmo. how would yo enjoy a game knowing you paid 50 dollars and if you die its over. no respawn just a bunch of fuckheads hunting you down just to end your miserable life with no aperent reason other than they think they know what is best for a server
Yes you are so right. Hardcore mode in Diablo 2 killed that game.
When i was still playing D2 there were thousands of others playing HC mode. When you die, you are dead: you do not pass go. Do not collect 200 dollars. You don't respawn. You don't collect your items. You roll another character. Yes it sucks to die (my highest was a lvl 89 necromancer). For those brave enough to try, going back to the circus-ride-of-a-game that is most titles will never be the same.
Skydiving is dangerous. Mountain climbing is dangerous. Racecar driving is dangerous. Scuba diving with sharks is danerous. Dying in an MMO (or any othergame) is like riding the ponies at the local carnival. If there is no cost in dying, there is no excitement. When i played D2 HC my heart would race when i rounded the corner not knowing if Brem Sparkfist was mutli-shot lightning enchanted -- real men don't use maphack. Don't get me wrong, dying sucks. It's the I-almost-died-and-hit-my-rejuvination-potion-button-and-managed-to-kill-the-monster-with-4-hit-points-left experiences make it all worth it.
By contrast in WoW, i have more than once just allowed myself to be killed instead of using my healing potion because i figured it was less expensive to repair my gear than to purchase another potion. There are no sweaty palms in WoW. There is no heart-pounding action. It's like riding the merry-go-round. It's completely safe and you have to close your eyes and pretend really hard and in the end you still aren't convinced that you are actually riding a horse or unicorn.
I say give me permadeath. Slapping PD on an existing MMO will not work. They are so out of balance between the n00b carrying the chipped dagger covered in dust and the lvl 99 with the l33t bastard sword of annihilation +999 with 1000 times the health, dex, or whatever attribute would just boil down to a gankfest. However, if the game was build from the ground up with PD in mind, it could be a very engaging game. Before any idiot out there says "just delete your character if you die", i'll say "sure as long as i can delete yours when you die". PD doesn't work if it's a voluntary system.
The only big impediment to PD are internet connections. Stability is getting better all the time, but outages and disconnects still occur. Dying to a storm giant or a better player is fine, but dying to the lag monster burns in the pit of your stomach. Nevertheless there were plenty of D2 players who faced off against the lag monster everyday. Many (myself included) even played on 56k modems. If that's too much for you to swallow then might i suggest checking to see when the traveling fair is coming to your neighborhood. Those plastic horses don't bite.
They that can give up essential liberty for temporary safetey deserve neither. -- Ben Franklin If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door. -- Milton Berle
While there are plenty of older people that act very immature, I agree that kids playing mmorpg's certainly takes away from the enjoyment of the game. I don't necessarily blame the "kids" since that is really their nature at a young age.
My 14 year old stepson was playing some online game with someone he didn't know. When the other person asked if my stepson wanted to play another game, my kid responded "Haaaa, you suck." I was standing right there and couldnt' believe it. I asked him why he was being obnoxious like that and he just said "I don't know." Needless to say he lost some of his internet privileges for a whilie.
It's not that my 14 year old is a bad kid, but kids sometimes say and do immature things. In general, kids are by their very nature immature. This does not translate well in your typical mmorpg.
Originally posted by Xzaro Also, I'd bet if every kid that isn't immature and talks 1337 online doesn't talk about their age, then next to no one would figure out they are actually (insert their age here) years old. But I don't like to hide my age, because I want to get the most out of everyone's personality, I don't want to hang out with someone on an MMOG and 1 month later when I tell him my age, he suddenly changes his attitude towards me.
Yea, that's pretty much the way I force myself to play now, and for like the past year. Ever since I grew out of my "gibberish" speech phase as I like to call it, I really have been preferring not to mention my age, because once I do, I will probably be stereotyped beyond belief. It is kind of ridiculous, I have met many gamers around my age (17) who are very mature and overall fun people to talk too, then I've met some around my age who are complete idiots and ones that sit there talking in l33t speak, also I've met immature 25+ year olds and very mature 25+ year olds, you can't stereotype a particular age bracket, because that is not the case at all.
yes little kids do ruin mmorpgs because they crowd on, know nothing, depend on everyone else, and complain that its not perfect or that thier character is too weak in a certain area and 'johhnys character is awesome in that skill' when its just that the different character types are balanced to have certain strengths and weaknesses.
btw, the special character dialogue box need to include a lemda.
Depends on how mature they are, whether or not they act childish and a number of other things. I know some young children that play, that barely talk and do not bother anyone, while there are some others, that never, ever shut up and just annoy the hell out of me.
- Tienaere Damondred, 70High Priestess of the Nameless -Onela Damondred, Necro/Ranger of Guild Wars. -Onela, Magician/Wizard of Ragnarok.
Maybe we should look as those that are setting the examples for these kids that are troublesome and take THEM out behind the barn and have some words.
Kids learn by example. Have kids of your own and you'll realize, just like I did, all the stupid things I do and say that my son picks up on. I've quickly changed my life and think about the greater consequences of my actions and language.
Anthing other than looking at the source of the problem is just a waste of bug spray.
Originally posted by minkis18 yes little kids do ruin mmorpgs because they crowd on, know nothing, depend on everyone else, and complain that its not perfect or that thier character is too weak in a certain area and 'johhnys character is awesome in that skill' when its just that the different character types are balanced to have certain strengths and weaknesses.
btw, the special character dialogue box need to include a lemda.
Ta-da, perfect example of the kind of person I do not like to ever meet in a MMORPG.
Comments
I've been playing WoW for about 2 months. I can say that without a doubt it has the most mature community I have come across in mmorpgs. I have had no problems with griefers or attempted griefers. I have only seen 3 beggars. The only, minor, irritant is the occasional pvper who comes to a role playing server and /attempts/ to irritate us by acting as if they don't understand what roleplaying is.
Those mmorpgs I've played or betaed include, but are not limited to, Asheron's Call 1 & 2, Everquest, EVE: online. Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, The Matrix Online. Wish, and now Warcraft. To repeat. WoW has been the most pleasant experience of playing mmorpgs that I have had.
Yes, I am 15 years old, yes I love MMO's and yes my parents pay for my hobby. I am, however, also tired of being excluded from groups, guilds, and raids, because of age restrictions. I am fed up of "mature" gamers complaining about youth playing MMORPG, the problem is only with a small minority of young teens. Most people I come across that are annoying or ignorant are in fact in their early twenties with massize tempers low patience, and determination to be the best, wanting to annihalate everyone and everything. Most kids that are unwanted are just new people to the game that need help with certain things to get over the learning curve. Everyone in the MMORPG community was once a "noob" and everyone was aided in beginning their adventures to be the best. Maybe for once you should think of when you first began your MMO experience and how much you appreciated those who helped you. The problem with the MMORPG community is that they are unwilling to help the newcomers to games get over the hump.
Young kids ruining mmorpgs?!? C'mon we can't just blame the youngins, non-new adult players are in there too. Its not just them either people our age 16-21 having no experience with a character or the game for that matter and buy the account on e-bay and "F" up your exp. This has happen to me many times on EQ some newb wanted to join us our little hunt we run into some SH*T and he doesn't know the spells, I quit the game all together F O R E V E R!
So take it from me my gamers everyone can be a potential newbie, even the best of us were newbies.
Just be nice to them and hope the newb you meet is a fast learner I know when I play a new game I am the fastest mofo you will ever meet
________________________________
I must not fear, fear is the mind killer.
Fear is the little death that leads to obliteration, I must permit fear to pass over me and through me.
________________________________
I think too less people help newbies these days. They either (a) laugh at them or (b) tell them to go away. If you help some every now and then, then there might be more and more mature players in MMOGs.
Sometimes I even dedicate a whole playing session just helping out one newbie that is confused and needs help.
Next time someone asks for help, just remember you were once a newbie too.
I try to help new players whenever I can. I want to see them mature into real gamers that will, in turn, help other new players when they get a foothold of the game and the cycle will continue. Being laughed at and/or made fun of or ignored/told to go away just makes you want to quit the game and you can never learn unless you actually experience something other than being rejected or told you are stupid.
Young kids don't neccesarily ruin MMO's but some of them just don't have the maturity like us "older" gamers, using the term lightly as I am only 20 years old myself. I have been playing MMO's for years and I too started out starry-eyed and wandering much like these young ones are, a helping hand does much more for maturity than does a blank stare or mocking glance.
End rant.
I totally agree.
While kids can spoil a good moment in a game, we cannot allow something which will never change to get in the way of our enjoyment of games in general. Kids will be kids!
Are you a Dog or a BloodClaw? NOW RECRUITING
Are you on crack?! WoW (compaired to all other games Ive played that have "gone gold") has the WORST community that I have ever seen.
The pinnacle of stupidity in this community is best explained by a quote in Ashenvale General chat: "I got charged $15 cuz I swore". Sigh.. Mixed with males who play fem Night Elves to /dance and ask for money, the homophobic
acist children, the neverending stupid questions, and the MMO newbs who really dont have half a flippin clue wat theyre doing.. Its just not a nice place unless you have a predetermined group to do stuff with.
Good game, but too easy. So easy that its playable for morons. Thats why the community sucks.
EDIT: Any mediocre MMO in beta also has a horrible community. So many freeloading "kids" (as in, those with childish maturity lvls) flock to these.
Kinda applies in a way to WoW. Ppl who played Warcraft or Diablo (or possibly even Starcraft) decided to play it. BNET kiddies, can? >.>
EDIT Again: Seems youre from an RP server..? May be a bit more mature, cuz those kids get either warned or banned (or give up cuz they realize wat RP is). But even then, it's mostly young kids who try to be the "good" evil guy, or the "bad" good guy, or the "gangsta" ANYTHING. From wat I saw in RP servers, I was not impressed.
I've said this before.
And I'll say it again.
You shouldn't stereotype certain players because of their age, being old or being young, it's all about the level of maturity within the person.
I've seen idiot 30 year olds.
and i've seen dedicated teenagers.
It's all in the players attitude and level of maturity.
-Jimbo.
Totally agreed.
I said this the last time this kind of thread was made and all I got was flames telling me how it was just generalization, not stereotype, and how it's a fact that most immature players are kids. But of course the person never gave me any proof as to how "it's a fact that most immature players are kids" (something along those lines).
No matter how you look at it, it's stereotyping when you say "teenagers are the source of all the bad players".
I might have just over-reacted last time this was brought up, but seriously, I am sick and tired of all the stereotyping going on, no matter where I go in MMOGs, if I say "I'm 14 years old", I will almost automatically get a rejection from a guild or an insult from someone such as "lol! you got yer mommy to pay fer ya?".
It's called self-defense, and also trying to defend other kids my age who don't act immature.
Also, I'd bet if every kid that isn't immature and talks 1337 online doesn't talk about their age, then next to no one would figure out they are actually (insert their age here) years old. But I don't like to hide my age, because I want to get the most out of everyone's personality, I don't want to hang out with someone on an MMOG and 1 month later when I tell him my age, he suddenly changes his attitude towards me.
Are you on crack?! WoW (compaired to all other games Ive played that have "gone gold") has the WORST community that I have ever seen.
The pinnacle of stupidity in this community is best explained by a quote in Ashenvale General chat: "I got charged $15 cuz I swore". Sigh.. Mixed with males who play fem Night Elves to /dance and ask for money, the homophobic
acist children, the neverending stupid questions, and the MMO newbs who really dont have half a flippin clue wat theyre doing.. Its just not a nice place unless you have a predetermined group to do stuff with.
Good game, but too easy. So easy that its playable for morons. Thats why the community sucks.
EDIT: Any mediocre MMO in beta also has a horrible community. So many freeloading "kids" (as in, those with childish maturity lvls) flock to these.
Kinda applies in a way to WoW. Ppl who played Warcraft or Diablo (or possibly even Starcraft) decided to play it. BNET kiddies, can? >.>
EDIT Again: Seems youre from an RP server..? May be a bit more mature, cuz those kids get either warned or banned (or give up cuz they realize wat RP is). But even then, it's mostly young kids who try to be the "good" evil guy, or the "bad" good guy, or the "gangsta" ANYTHING. From wat I saw in RP servers, I was not impressed.
no, he is not on crack. He was stating his opinion and evidently in his experience the WoW community wasn't so bad.
Evidently you had different experiences than him and me. So far the community is nothing worse or better than other games. with the exception that here, on the EU RP server i actually could RP in general chat about politics (in-game ones of course).
You are entitled to your opinions, but i sincerely think that to call all people that started their Mmorpg experiences with WoW, "Morons" is not a good way to become well accepted, don't you think? No, it is not for morons, they simply removed all the things a majority of old mmorpg players hated about. Downtime, Spending hours to camp a zone or waiting for groups and timesinks under every stone.
Yes, it made the game more mainstream, but some MMorpg players should get out of the Elitist mentality. More mainstream is a good thing! not bad! the more players plays, the better for everyone! Companies and gamers alike. It means bigger market, more money flowing in it, more companies will pick it up and make new games and niche, non-mainstream games, will become a viable possibility.
About the age factor, i know i wasn't behaving badly when i was a kid and playing UO, i was quite mature. I invite all the posters to recall those times and see how they were behaving, maturely or immaturely? (if you were playing Mmorpg at all).
Some kids, when they play online games, seek the approval of their peers or superiors in age and so will strive to behave like a good adult should. Others prolly don't. On the other hands, young adults like me, are perfectly aware of the nature of Mmorpgs as GAMES and treat them as such. Stressed by real life problems, work and what not, a MMorpg is a stress relief where your bottled anger or negative feeling can finally explode.... on the face of thousands of other, anonymous, invisible, people.
They are invisible, you do not know them, so they do not exist. It is a illogical reasoning and one we don't do consiously, but is still there.
In the end bad behaviour has been there since UO and meridian 59 and won't go away. With the enlargement of the market comes an influx of new players, both bad and good, and there is no avoiding that as we know this things works on statistics and in 100 people there are 10 jerks or something.
So ignore them, report them, try to help them or kill them repeateadly with a rubber duck. Pick one solution
Have a nice day
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Well i think problem is that many new mmorpg have sold on their trademark and brought in first timers.
I play WoW and though the EU community is not so horrible it still rates as one of the most annoying community in mmorpg history.
Simple reason is a vast majority have never ever played a mmorpg and simply have no idea how to behave.And fact remains if the majority behaves in a certain way chances are the player will consider this to be normal mmorpg behaviour and just continue.
In the past you had mmorpg like someone mentioned AO.This were players who came mostly from other mmorpg and knew how to behave and new players came and learnt the right way to behave.
I completely agree that a good community is extremely important when trying to enjoy a game, particularly those of the mmo category. Where my reluctance comes in is the profiling, I think that players are trying to simplify the problem too much. All of the irritating and immature players online are not "young" and all of the "young" players are not irritating and immature. This may sound strange, especially being posted on forums for a computer game, but I think the real issue is the image that society is painting for today's youth. Don't get me wrong, this image fits many young people like a glove. However, it is this kind of atitude that creates the problem to begin with, too many people side-step the responsibility that they have in shaping their community (both on and offline). Kids are conditioned into their role as pesky, arrogant and immaure players. If what people want is a stronger community, they have to stop "playing the game," do not argue back, do not step out of character, and for the love of God do not use their behavior as an excuse to become bitter and act simliarly to other players. An eye for an eye makes the whole community suck.
That's where the problem in the "Solo MMORPG" philosophy is. It's attractive to people that don't want to socially interact other than the occasional "wtfpwning" of some "noobz0rz".
Look at a game in which grouping is required to progress at any reasonable rate. You'll find that people will tend to be more polite, because, after all, you might have to group with that person at some point. This isn't always the case, but I'd say that the average maturity in a grouping-based game is higher than that in a solo-based game, and I'd say that the average politeness is the same.
I'm sure you all have anecdotal evidence of this being wrong, but anecdotes don't prove a trend absolutely wrong.
Though my kids are older now we started as a gaming family involved in mmorpgs and watching what our kids were doing online while they were on line.
As a family in our guild we looked for "family guilds " that had similar interests that we do.
We grouped together and played together from everquest to daoc to swg.....
I do not think kids ruin the game, if parents keep an eye on what they are doing and acatuly peek in or involved with what they are doing online.
While i saw some behaviors early days of swg i never experianced else where due to the orginal "younger players there" in time each of the servers deveolped a community and the trash talkers settled down.
For any person looking to a mmorpg it is up to them to do the reading and see what type of over all community there is and either /ignore general chat switch servers or find a role playing server where certain behaviors are frowned upon.
I have seen adults behave just as badly as kids and it is a two way street. Though many folks follow treat folks as you wish to be treated not everyone does the same in real life or game life. However in whatever game or rl situation you find yourself if you surround yourself with others much of the above previous problems can be resolved.
I saw some bad behaviors even in eq 2 on certian quest mobs, so the game play itself can lead to squabbles, timed camps.... If the game itself offers multi places to camp/ hunt it is easier to just go someplace for a while if folks get to annoying.........
Yes you are so right. Hardcore mode in Diablo 2 killed that game.
When i was still playing D2 there were thousands of others playing HC mode. When you die, you are dead: you do not pass go. Do not collect 200 dollars. You don't respawn. You don't collect your items. You roll another character. Yes it sucks to die (my highest was a lvl 89 necromancer). For those brave enough to try, going back to the circus-ride-of-a-game that is most titles will never be the same.
Skydiving is dangerous. Mountain climbing is dangerous. Racecar driving is dangerous. Scuba diving with sharks is danerous. Dying in an MMO (or any othergame) is like riding the ponies at the local carnival. If there is no cost in dying, there is no excitement. When i played D2 HC my heart would race when i rounded the corner not knowing if Brem Sparkfist was mutli-shot lightning enchanted -- real men don't use maphack. Don't get me wrong, dying sucks. It's the I-almost-died-and-hit-my-rejuvination-potion-button-and-managed-to-kill-the-monster-with-4-hit-points-left experiences make it all worth it.
By contrast in WoW, i have more than once just allowed myself to be killed instead of using my healing potion because i figured it was less expensive to repair my gear than to purchase another potion. There are no sweaty palms in WoW. There is no heart-pounding action. It's like riding the merry-go-round. It's completely safe and you have to close your eyes and pretend really hard and in the end you still aren't convinced that you are actually riding a horse or unicorn.
I say give me permadeath. Slapping PD on an existing MMO will not work. They are so out of balance between the n00b carrying the chipped dagger covered in dust and the lvl 99 with the l33t bastard sword of annihilation +999 with 1000 times the health, dex, or whatever attribute would just boil down to a gankfest. However, if the game was build from the ground up with PD in mind, it could be a very engaging game. Before any idiot out there says "just delete your character if you die", i'll say "sure as long as i can delete yours when you die". PD doesn't work if it's a voluntary system.
The only big impediment to PD are internet connections. Stability is getting better all the time, but outages and disconnects still occur. Dying to a storm giant or a better player is fine, but dying to the lag monster burns in the pit of your stomach. Nevertheless there were plenty of D2 players who faced off against the lag monster everyday. Many (myself included) even played on 56k modems. If that's too much for you to swallow then might i suggest checking to see when the traveling fair is coming to your neighborhood. Those plastic horses don't bite.
www.TheChippedDagger.com My 90-day 2D Java MMORPG project
They that can give up essential liberty for temporary safetey deserve neither. -- Ben Franklin
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door. -- Milton Berle
While there are plenty of older people that act very immature, I agree that kids playing mmorpg's certainly takes away from the enjoyment of the game. I don't necessarily blame the "kids" since that is really their nature at a young age.
My 14 year old stepson was playing some online game with someone he didn't know. When the other person asked if my stepson wanted to play another game, my kid responded "Haaaa, you suck." I was standing right there and couldnt' believe it. I asked him why he was being obnoxious like that and he just said "I don't know." Needless to say he lost some of his internet privileges for a whilie.
It's not that my 14 year old is a bad kid, but kids sometimes say and do immature things. In general, kids are by their very nature immature. This does not translate well in your typical mmorpg.
Yea, that's pretty much the way I force myself to play now, and for like the past year. Ever since I grew out of my "gibberish" speech phase as I like to call it, I really have been preferring not to mention my age, because once I do, I will probably be stereotyped beyond belief. It is kind of ridiculous, I have met many gamers around my age (17) who are very mature and overall fun people to talk too, then I've met some around my age who are complete idiots and ones that sit there talking in l33t speak, also I've met immature 25+ year olds and very mature 25+ year olds, you can't stereotype a particular age bracket, because that is not the case at all.
yes little kids do ruin mmorpgs because they crowd on, know nothing, depend on everyone else, and complain that its not perfect or that thier character is too weak in a certain area and 'johhnys character is awesome in that skill' when its just that the different character types are balanced to have certain strengths and weaknesses.
btw, the special character dialogue box need to include a lemda.
- Tienaere Damondred, 70High Priestess of the Nameless
-Onela Damondred, Necro/Ranger of Guild Wars.
-Onela, Magician/Wizard of Ragnarok.
Kids? Kids are ruinning MMOs?
Maybe we should look as those that are setting the examples for these kids that are troublesome and take THEM out behind the barn and have some words.
Kids learn by example. Have kids of your own and you'll realize, just like I did, all the stupid things I do and say that my son picks up on. I've quickly changed my life and think about the greater consequences of my actions and language.
Anthing other than looking at the source of the problem is just a waste of bug spray.
Carrara
Ta-da, perfect example of the kind of person I do not like to ever meet in a MMORPG.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you''re one of the 2% who hasn''t, copy & paste this in your signature.