What it cost? Well one way of thinking about this is to take the data that EA provided (search on EA investors and you will get all the transcripts etc.) which was: 500k to break even, 1M to make a profit but nothing to write home about.
Good luck finding that quote.
You have to parse Corporate Speak a bit to get some real understanding of what was said and not said. Note importantly the spokes-person neglected to include what TERM those numbers implied...... "We retain 500K subs and we'll break even in 2 years" is worlds different then "We retain 500k subs and we'll break even in 12 years" as far as investors go. Furthermore, the definitions of "break even" and "make a profit" are also purposefully imprecise.
For example "500k subs and we break even, meaning we cover our expected OPERATING EXPENSES at the current level" is also worlds different then "500K subs and we break even, meaning we cover our expected OPERATING EXPENSES plus recoup our initial Development Costs."
In other words...the spokesman used alot of fancy words to tell the investors exactly nothing..... par for the course in that sort of game.
"SWTOR not a priority for development" roughly translates to "Abandon ship! Flee fools!! Flee for your lives!"
I find it amusing how EA suits fail to understand what they got there. They are in possession of the Star Wars IP and MMO rights. There is no higher priority in gaming nor a higher money-maker if done correctly. They should scrap SWTOR altogether, and rebuild from scratch, the right way, after doing a bit research what makes SW one of the most popular IP's in the history. But, considering EA's reputation and what Lucas himself did to his own baby, I don't care anymore. It's just funny to watch, it's exactly what I have been talking about in past year
I think it translates more as "We're not going to be sinking serious money into this POS." They'll try to keep it afloat as long as they can without pumping serious resources into it. It's the sensible thing to do. Most of us knew this from beta, some thought BW would fix it. Guess what? It is what it is.
"SWTOR not a priority for development" roughly translates to "Abandon ship! Flee fools!! Flee for your lives!"
I find it amusing how EA suits fail to understand what they got there. They are in possession of the Star Wars IP and MMO rights. There is no higher priority in gaming nor a higher money-maker if done correctly. They should scrap SWTOR altogether, and rebuild from scratch, the right way, after doing a bit research what makes SW one of the most popular IP's in the history. But, considering EA's reputation and what Lucas himself did to his own baby, I don't care anymore. It's just funny to watch, it's exactly what I have been talking about in past year
I think it translates more as "We're not going to be sinking serious money into this POS." They'll try to keep it afloat as long as they can without pumping serious resources into it. It's the sensible thing to do. Most of us knew this from beta, some thought BW would fix it. Guess what? It is what it is.
Actions always speak louder than words. Their marketing words tells us swtor is the greatest mmo ever to have graced us. Their actions tell us they know swtor is so bad it isn't worth any large resources to further invest in. Either it can't be turned into something more profitable, or the cost of doing so outweights the risks and rewards of doing it.
Except that isn't what he said. He said right now, TOR is getting a lot more hype and attention than he feels is warranted. This isn't the language of their conference call at launch, and their first conference call where they announced 1.7. This is the trying to carefully walk back expectations, and set people up for even worse news.
Also, the fact EA launched with so many servers, I'd say indicates at least a good 5 million. I'm guestimating, but seriously, you think they made this many servers for the current population?
This is what we've come to. It isn't TOR that is the failure, it is us. We ruined a great game 6 months out. Truthfully, we wouldn't deserve a good game being given to us by Bioware, would we?
Player hype wasn't behind the largest marketing campaign in the history of MMO gaming.
I never said it was never hyped at all. I am saying the players hyped it MUCH MUCH more than the company did.
They have a good amount of subs for an MMO of today.
I point out the linked article is a BUSINESS MAN talking BUSINESS. And I also suggest that a BUSINESS MAN might know more about HIS BUSINESS than we do. But, somehow, you know more than anyone else, including him on the subject.
You lack every single proper tool for determining the viability of server merges. Simply because you feel they should be done does not mean they should. If you can produce a verifiable chart of the number of people in EACH and EVERY area of the game on each and every server at all times, and then also prove that this amount is inadequate for the game balance, then you have something. Until then, its your feelings versus factual evidence.
And you are the one suggesting TOR is a failure. I have articulated quite well the fact it isn't, and the meaning behind a BUSINESSMAN'S statement on the matter. I invite you to show me the articles where this same man, or at least someone of relavant standing, suggests that TOR will forever be their primary source of income and also their forever top selling game.
Largest marketing campaign in MMO history is 100% irrelevent. Completely and utterly. It has absolutely nothing to do with the product itself or the people slated for such product. I also would enjoy sources as to it being the largest MMO marketing campaign in history, as I personally haven't experienced it as such.
Every MMO that has launched since the beginning of MMOs seems to always have threads like these... DOOM AND GLOOM, and "I SAID SO!". I really am amused by it. You can ragequite and post as much negativity as you desire,. It honestly has no impact what so ever on reality.
You see, you are guilty of anachronism. Here's what EA said:
"So while I understand there’s an enormous amount of interest, I don’t know that it warrants as much as what we’re seeing right now"
The company, in addition to marketing being part of their 200 million dollar plus budget, also dumped an addition 35-50 million in ad marketing after the game launched. They then launched constant free weekends. They also launched TV commercials. You rarely see a TV commercial for an MMO. So You are simply reading into it what you want to see. Maybe I am to. But the difference between us is my interpretation corresponds to reality.
I nowhere said anything about server mergers. I even started a thread in this forum outlining the reasons they aren't doing one. Primarily, once you merge servers, you admit your game is a failure, and you simply don't rebound. You manage it's decline. My point to you however was the game was obviously made for a far larger audience than actually materialized.
On the one hand, you want sources. On the other, they are irrelevant. Why don't you just come out and say "Dammit, I like TOR. I don't care what the metrics show, or what the future shows. I like this damn game." That's a perfectly valid response. I played Pirates of the Burning Sea for 3 years. That game was a "failed" MMO. But you wanna know something? I found it damn fun with amazing pvp, so I didn't care. I didn't try to claim the game was doing gangbusters when they were merging servers left and right. I enjoyed it for what it was. You can enjoy TOR for what it is. But stop trying to put a spin on it that is different from all empirical evidence, and requires you to actually read into someone else's words your pre-conceived notions.
Just using what figures that EA has provided themselves along with the additional statement about it not even being in the top 5 revenue generating games, in their catalogue. on the other hand, can you provide any figures that might refute the claim? because i really doubt anyone can.
Well, provide the numbers then...should not be difficult.
Also, until you provide them, there is nothing to refute on my end...
We provided a direct quote from EA. When you spend 200 mill to develop a game over several years, then after launch run a 35-50 mill marketing campaign, and then you shrug it off by saying "it isn't top 5" and that it doesnt warrant the hype it currently has, yup, I'd call that a failure.
Aw come on guys, I don't see why you're getting so bent out of shape that EA considers one of the highest budget games in history, made by a flagship developer, and designed for longevity to be less important than this:
If its not going to make money they have to move on. There is no way to change this game.
Its a solo, quest driven game for 1 month(or your drive to 50), then all the sudden you have to start raiding. Talk about polar opposites. And the PvP is atrocious.
Until a dev realizes that people don't like to be forced to do one or the other this genre will continue to struggle. They are just too stupid, though. Continue to make these quest driven games that do a complete 180 and then force people to do boring raids. Yea, that's the ticket!! Its most working with so many idiot devs following that path.
If its not going to make money they have to move on. There is no way to change this game.
Its a solo, quest driven game for 1 month(or your drive to 50), then all the sudden you have to start raiding. Talk about polar opposites. And the PvP is atrocious.
Until a dev realizes that people don't like to be forced to do one or the other this genre will continue to struggle. They are just too stupid, though. Continue to make these quest driven games that do a complete 180 and then force people to do boring raids. Yea, that's the ticket!! Its most working with so many idiot devs following that path.
I'm clapping my hands, swaying, and praising Golelorn! You got this so right.
If they keep in the 1m subs area and focus on PvE, mini-games, flashpoints I think SWToR will be just fine. I had a lot of fun on it but the replayability just wore out for me after a couple L50's and I consider the PvP to be terrible basically.
All I can do is sit back and laugh, as I polish my "crystal ball" I guess it wasnt so wrong after all!
But then again, like I expected 90% of those fanboys dissapeared back from under that bridge from where they came. And yes the over zealous fanboys were the real trolls of this board.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
It is really simple for me. Look at your right, at your left, look to the poster above or below you, look at yourself in the mirror. You will most likely find there a gamer on wich to blame about eveything bad happening in mmos and games in general.
Thing is, as ive said it before and i will keep saying over and over, gamers encourage dev tems and big label editors to keep producing trash games because they sell it everytime and to the same gamers that keep moaning about a game after the launch.
If people stop buying games and make a serious demand in quality assurance before release, things would be much better. But people dont. Some label puts out a game, opens a close beta, mmo gaming sites say its great blah blah blah, we see some pretty videos on youtube and there you have it: ITS SOLD.
Now ofc this is not the reality for every gamer. Some people wait a bit to see community feedback. Play the trials. Phone a friend that is currently playing and check it out...but thats just a small percentage of it. Most people just see "a beautiful world", "18000 quests (who cares)", "world pvp", "blah blah blah" and they rush out to buy it......
...i mean i know a guy that bought TERA just because dolls look nice and other that bought D3 just because he has been waiting for 10 years for it...come on....im not stating both these games are not good, no, they can actually be good, i dont care, but you cant judge a game by its pretty face, buy it, get to learn the game is not that good, complaint about it and then proceed to the next buy...
...seriously...how can one expect things to change if this trend of "if it sucks ill buy another" goes on forever??
Not that I think this is enjoyable, it's not at all. I had high hopes for this game.
Wow.
But but but...... we don't have actual concrete numbers that the game isn't selling well!
You don't bury your good selling pc games behind the "more" option.
WoW hmmm FYI the games are list in the order they were released with upcomming games listed 1st. But hey dont let that stop you guys from facepalming etc LOL
It is really simple for me. Look at your right, at your left, look to the poster above or below you, look at yourself in the mirror. You will most likely find there a gamer on wich to blame about eveything bad happening in mmos and games in general.
Thing is, as ive said it before and i will keep saying over and over, gamers encourage dev tems and big label editors to keep producing trash games because they sell it everytime and to the same gamers that keep moaning about a game after the launch.
If people stop buying games and make a serious demand in quality assurance before release, things would be much better. But people dont. Some label puts out a game, opens a close beta, mmo gaming sites say its great blah blah blah, we see some pretty videos on youtube and there you have it: ITS SOLD.
Now ofc this is not the reality for every gamer. Some people wait a bit to see community feedback. Play the trials. Phone a friend that is currently playing and check it out...but thats just a small percentage of it. Most people just see "a beautiful world", "18000 quests (who cares)", "world pvp", "blah blah blah" and they rush out to buy it......
...i mean i know a guy that bought TERA just because dolls look nice and other that bought D3 just because he has been waiting for 10 years for it...come on....im not stating both these games are not good, no, they can actually be good, i dont care, but you cant judge a game by its pretty face, buy it, get to learn the game is not that good, complaint about it and then proceed to the next buy...
...seriously...how can one expect things to change if this trend of "if it sucks ill buy another" goes on forever??
Check my posting history, I've been asking everyone why and getting the same crickets response every time. I even created a thread asking to organize a boycott of EA until the suits are fired but pretty much same crickets.
Big talk, no action, we are getting what we deserve but damnit.
The last time I remember gamers rising up against a company was with SWG during the NGE and what happened there? Nothing. Hell they even had some media coverage and still nothing. Boycotting is a joke.
You have to remember that the things you may find important to change in the video game industry most people just dont give a damn about. They are just video games and if you don't like them don't buy them. That is the attitude of the average gamer and in the end that is the only real power you have as a consumer. Just because you may think there is a problem doesnt mean anyone else cares even if the change would beneift them.
Also your opinion on expansions stands in stark contrast to the market in general.
Lineage 2 before it went F2P gave expansions for Free and the updates were huge in that game! Raids, new dungones, new emblems, new armors, etc. all fof free!
There are/were some decent mmos that gave free expansion content! That's why I loved lineage 2 after buying the box once every chronicle update (expansion) was free at no charge! (this was before it went F2P)!
To reiterate a point here people say no other game had more than 1.7 mil accounts , thats true for the U.S. but what about korea, japan, China??? lineage 2 in Korea has 2.4 million + subscribers! I guess we don't count that because its korean right???
I would give you a guest pass to SWOTR, but then I wouldn't be able to find a way to live with myself afterwards....
Originally posted by iceman00We provided a direct quote from EA. When you spend 200 mill to develop a game over several years, then after launch run a 35-50 mill marketing campaign, and then you shrug it off by saying "it isn't top 5" and that it doesnt warrant the hype it currently has, yup, I'd call that a failure.
The quote wasn't particularly accurate and it was sales of 6 weeks in of the game.
I see you throw some numbers around without any back up again...
Ofc it isn't in TOP 5, no wonder when you are compering with way larger markets such as console games. Apples and oranges here.
That does not make it a failure tho, it is reasonably less priority from business point of view...
But how can 1.7 err 1.3 million paying subs not be a significant revenue generator to not make it a priority?
Because SWTOR never had 1.7 milliojn paying subs or even 1.3 million. I'm guessing it has 400,000 top and sinking fast.
How deliciously ironic it would be if it only had 250,000, the figure SWG had when the Genius of MMORPGs, John Smedley said, 'Let's improve the game with the NGE!'.
But how can 1.7 err 1.3 million paying subs not be a significant revenue generator to not make it a priority?
Because SWTOR never had 1.7 milliojn paying subs or even 1.3 million. I'm guessing it has 400,000 top and sinking fast.
How deliciously ironic it would be if it only had 250,000, the figure SWG had when the Genius of MMORPGs, John Smedley said, 'Let's improve the game with the NGE!'.
The actual numbers are from the independently audited quarterly reports of EA. BTW deliberatly false and misleading statements by insiders of publically traded companies is a crime.
Comments
You realize that the report is as of 1st February and the game launched in December?
Hardly "unsold boxes", people simply did not resubscribed after their 1st month was over...
Simply put, you have nothing to base your assumptions on, apart from your emotions.
You have to parse Corporate Speak a bit to get some real understanding of what was said and not said. Note importantly the spokes-person neglected to include what TERM those numbers implied...... "We retain 500K subs and we'll break even in 2 years" is worlds different then "We retain 500k subs and we'll break even in 12 years" as far as investors go. Furthermore, the definitions of "break even" and "make a profit" are also purposefully imprecise.
For example "500k subs and we break even, meaning we cover our expected OPERATING EXPENSES at the current level" is also worlds different then "500K subs and we break even, meaning we cover our expected OPERATING EXPENSES plus recoup our initial Development Costs."
In other words...the spokesman used alot of fancy words to tell the investors exactly nothing..... par for the course in that sort of game.
I think it translates more as "We're not going to be sinking serious money into this POS." They'll try to keep it afloat as long as they can without pumping serious resources into it. It's the sensible thing to do. Most of us knew this from beta, some thought BW would fix it. Guess what? It is what it is.
Actions always speak louder than words. Their marketing words tells us swtor is the greatest mmo ever to have graced us. Their actions tell us they know swtor is so bad it isn't worth any large resources to further invest in. Either it can't be turned into something more profitable, or the cost of doing so outweights the risks and rewards of doing it.
Thought I'd share that SWTOR now isn't even on the first page @ EA's home page for PC games only.
http://www.ea.com/pc
Not that I think this is enjoyable, it's not at all. I had high hopes for this game.
You see, you are guilty of anachronism. Here's what EA said:
"So while I understand there’s an enormous amount of interest, I don’t know that it warrants as much as what we’re seeing right now"
The company, in addition to marketing being part of their 200 million dollar plus budget, also dumped an addition 35-50 million in ad marketing after the game launched. They then launched constant free weekends. They also launched TV commercials. You rarely see a TV commercial for an MMO. So You are simply reading into it what you want to see. Maybe I am to. But the difference between us is my interpretation corresponds to reality.
I nowhere said anything about server mergers. I even started a thread in this forum outlining the reasons they aren't doing one. Primarily, once you merge servers, you admit your game is a failure, and you simply don't rebound. You manage it's decline. My point to you however was the game was obviously made for a far larger audience than actually materialized.
On the one hand, you want sources. On the other, they are irrelevant. Why don't you just come out and say "Dammit, I like TOR. I don't care what the metrics show, or what the future shows. I like this damn game." That's a perfectly valid response. I played Pirates of the Burning Sea for 3 years. That game was a "failed" MMO. But you wanna know something? I found it damn fun with amazing pvp, so I didn't care. I didn't try to claim the game was doing gangbusters when they were merging servers left and right. I enjoyed it for what it was. You can enjoy TOR for what it is. But stop trying to put a spin on it that is different from all empirical evidence, and requires you to actually read into someone else's words your pre-conceived notions.
We provided a direct quote from EA. When you spend 200 mill to develop a game over several years, then after launch run a 35-50 mill marketing campaign, and then you shrug it off by saying "it isn't top 5" and that it doesnt warrant the hype it currently has, yup, I'd call that a failure.
Aw come on guys, I don't see why you're getting so bent out of shape that EA considers one of the highest budget games in history, made by a flagship developer, and designed for longevity to be less important than this:
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/medal-of-honor
I mean, come on guys...Medal of Honor! It's like...the red headed step child of FPS games. You gotta love it!
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
The old "that was just practice, this time it's for real!" argument made on playgrounds every where.
#17
/facepalm
Wow.
But but but...... we don't have actual concrete numbers that the game isn't selling well!
You don't bury your good selling pc games behind the "more" option.
If its not going to make money they have to move on. There is no way to change this game.
Its a solo, quest driven game for 1 month(or your drive to 50), then all the sudden you have to start raiding. Talk about polar opposites. And the PvP is atrocious.
Until a dev realizes that people don't like to be forced to do one or the other this genre will continue to struggle. They are just too stupid, though. Continue to make these quest driven games that do a complete 180 and then force people to do boring raids. Yea, that's the ticket!! Its most working with so many idiot devs following that path.
I'm clapping my hands, swaying, and praising Golelorn! You got this so right.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
If they keep in the 1m subs area and focus on PvE, mini-games, flashpoints I think SWToR will be just fine. I had a lot of fun on it but the replayability just wore out for me after a couple L50's and I consider the PvP to be terrible basically.
All I can do is sit back and laugh, as I polish my "crystal ball" I guess it wasnt so wrong after all!
But then again, like I expected 90% of those fanboys dissapeared back from under that bridge from where they came. And yes the over zealous fanboys were the real trolls of this board.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
It is really simple for me. Look at your right, at your left, look to the poster above or below you, look at yourself in the mirror. You will most likely find there a gamer on wich to blame about eveything bad happening in mmos and games in general.
Thing is, as ive said it before and i will keep saying over and over, gamers encourage dev tems and big label editors to keep producing trash games because they sell it everytime and to the same gamers that keep moaning about a game after the launch.
If people stop buying games and make a serious demand in quality assurance before release, things would be much better. But people dont. Some label puts out a game, opens a close beta, mmo gaming sites say its great blah blah blah, we see some pretty videos on youtube and there you have it: ITS SOLD.
Now ofc this is not the reality for every gamer. Some people wait a bit to see community feedback. Play the trials. Phone a friend that is currently playing and check it out...but thats just a small percentage of it. Most people just see "a beautiful world", "18000 quests (who cares)", "world pvp", "blah blah blah" and they rush out to buy it......
...i mean i know a guy that bought TERA just because dolls look nice and other that bought D3 just because he has been waiting for 10 years for it...come on....im not stating both these games are not good, no, they can actually be good, i dont care, but you cant judge a game by its pretty face, buy it, get to learn the game is not that good, complaint about it and then proceed to the next buy...
...seriously...how can one expect things to change if this trend of "if it sucks ill buy another" goes on forever??
WoW hmmm FYI the games are list in the order they were released with upcomming games listed 1st. But hey dont let that stop you guys from facepalming etc LOL
OMG EA is run by callous businessmen? Well, I never. Shocking. Fall out of my seat shocking.
Check my posting history, I've been asking everyone why and getting the same crickets response every time. I even created a thread asking to organize a boycott of EA until the suits are fired but pretty much same crickets.
Big talk, no action, we are getting what we deserve but damnit.
The last time I remember gamers rising up against a company was with SWG during the NGE and what happened there? Nothing. Hell they even had some media coverage and still nothing. Boycotting is a joke.
You have to remember that the things you may find important to change in the video game industry most people just dont give a damn about. They are just video games and if you don't like them don't buy them. That is the attitude of the average gamer and in the end that is the only real power you have as a consumer. Just because you may think there is a problem doesnt mean anyone else cares even if the change would beneift them.
Lineage 2 before it went F2P gave expansions for Free and the updates were huge in that game! Raids, new dungones, new emblems, new armors, etc. all fof free!
There are/were some decent mmos that gave free expansion content! That's why I loved lineage 2 after buying the box once every chronicle update (expansion) was free at no charge! (this was before it went F2P)!
To reiterate a point here people say no other game had more than 1.7 mil accounts , thats true for the U.S. but what about korea, japan, China??? lineage 2 in Korea has 2.4 million + subscribers! I guess we don't count that because its korean right???
I would give you a guest pass to SWOTR, but then I wouldn't be able to find a way to live with myself afterwards....
The quote wasn't particularly accurate and it was sales of 6 weeks in of the game.
I see you throw some numbers around without any back up again...
Ofc it isn't in TOP 5, no wonder when you are compering with way larger markets such as console games. Apples and oranges here.
That does not make it a failure tho, it is reasonably less priority from business point of view...
looooool. this guys dont give a s**** for what consumers thinks, because they dont care about them.
Because SWTOR never had 1.7 milliojn paying subs or even 1.3 million. I'm guessing it has 400,000 top and sinking fast.
How deliciously ironic it would be if it only had 250,000, the figure SWG had when the Genius of MMORPGs, John Smedley said, 'Let's improve the game with the NGE!'.
The actual numbers are from the independently audited quarterly reports of EA. BTW deliberatly false and misleading statements by insiders of publically traded companies is a crime.