Right, so account services and a set of skins make a cash shop for you? In my opinion, you were so desperate to be right, you would proclaim anything a cash shop. And certainly, this isn't it.
Btw, Frogster is giving away skins and has not put any announcement about having any on sales, which makes the second part of your argument a strawman's ... again (at least for now).
As long as they sell cosmetic things and pets like WoW im fine. The day they start to sell pay to win items and other shit im out doesnt matter how good the game is.
Right, so account services and a set of skins make a cash shop for you?
Account services obviously don't.
Skins? Absolutely.
At the least it is a water tester. A way to judge the community reaction. If you tolerate it, or worse participate, or worse then THAT publically defend it, then they WILL put more in.
This is the 'slippery slope' that so many talk about.
Slow boil your frogs... I guess they are learning from the masters of the craft at SOE.
I really don't enjoy vanity items in P2P games. F2P and B2P, sure.
When I pay a sub fee, I feel like I'm paying to improve the game and fund development.
When vanity items are made available only for an additional fee, I feel like I've been denied an item that I've been paying to help create.
To be clear, I'm ok with appearance, gender, name changes, and race changes ($25 bucks for race change made me lol, though). Appearance, gender, name, and race are all things that are available to EVERYONE and you are simply paying to change your mind.
I would NOT be ok with UNIQUE appearances and races available in the cash shop for an additional fee. My SUBSCRIPTION FEE is already an additional fee.
If F2P or B2P do it, it's to keep developing. When a P2P does it, it's simply greed and divides the base. Especially when there is so much else that should be taken care of.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
If a Cash Shop is coming, that means possibly a removal of the subscription. Actually the subscription is the only thing that prevents me from playing TERA again (because the actual content doesn't deserve to pay 15$ per month imo), so I would be happy.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
That's a slippery slope argument. It's easy to say, "So what? I don't care about it, so it doesn't matter." But aesthetics do matter to a segment of the playerbase, otherwise they wouldn't be selling them. For those people, charging extra for aesthetics means their subscription is giving them less than it used to. What if those people said, "I don't care about pvp, let them sell +stat pvp gear," or pvpers said "I don't care about raiding, let them sell +stat raid gear." Every part of the game matters to someone; the second you start charging micro-payments on top of subscriptions, somebody's getting screwed. If it's not you, great, but history indicates that they'll come for you eventually.
Well stated.
It's not and it's specious reasoning.
Your subscription, historically, gave you access to everything that they included in the game that they thuoght should be in the game.
Suddenly game companies realize they can sell cosmetic items so they add more of these. I can't name many if any games that were p2p that had a plethora of extra cosmetic items "just because they thought they should be in game".
City of heroes I think and that game was basing itself around the fact of uber customization.
If cosmetic/cash shop items suddenly became illegal you would not be seeing developers addign them to games on a regular basis "just because".
I would also go so far as to say that cosmetic items are definitly the lesser of the evils.
Would I prefer to have cosmetic items as a regular part of the game? sure! I'm probably one of the most vain people you'll meet. Heck, I got a special title in Warhammer just because I dyed my armor so many different times.
And Lord of the Rings could have made a LOT more money from me if they added more (and better) armor skins. So I get the need to visually customize my charfacter.
But these cash shops are NOT going away. Not. GW2 will have them and every game coming out in the near future will have some sort of cash shop.
So it's time players made that decision. You can either resign yourselves to thsi fact and get on with your lives or you can liver a miserable life and take every opportunity to come to forums to complain about it AND STILL play the games anyway.
Take a stand and don't play these games anymore if you hate and are vehemently opposed to cash shops.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by OtakunP2P + cash shop = rip off. Whether it's P2W or not.
Sorry cannot agree with you here, not sure why a cash shop that is not P2W is a rip off, it is your choice to purchase the item and it in no way gives anyone an advantage. More games are going this route for some additional income, I think its a great idea as long as it doesn't go p2w.
Because p2p is supposed to mean equal opportunity. That's how MMOs used to be and it was a foundational principle.
Notice how when that went out the window for profits...so did the quality of current MMO offerings?
I completely agree with you. The point is, you are already paying a sub, shouldn't you get everything in that cash shop already? I mean really? Let's be a developers for a second. "Hey if we cut out all these face options and clothing options, we can add them in a optional cash shop and get some unlucky bastards for all they got just for playing our game".
Price of game + sub + cash shop for things that probably were supposed to be in already = fail.
I completely agree with you. The point is, you are already paying a sub, shouldn't you get everything in that cash shop already? I mean really? Let's be a developers for a second. "Hey if we cut out all these face options and clothing options, we can add them in a optional cash shop and get some unlucky bastards for all they got just for playing our game".
Price of game + sub + cash shop for things that probably were supposed to be in already = fail.
But again, there is no evidence that this stuff would have been in the game had there not been a cash shop.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I completely agree with you. The point is, you are already paying a sub, shouldn't you get everything in that cash shop already? I mean really? Let's be a developers for a second. "Hey if we cut out all these face options and clothing options, we can add them in a optional cash shop and get some unlucky bastards for all they got just for playing our game".
Price of game + sub + cash shop for things that probably were supposed to be in already = fail.
But again, there is no evidence that this stuff would have been in the game had there not been a cash shop.
Let us be realistic. You know...you know what's up.
Your subscription, historically, gave you access to everything that they included in the game that they thuoght should be in the game.
...except the content they sold as expansions.
Suddenly game companies realize they can sell cosmetic items so they add more of these. I can't name many if any games that were p2p that had a plethora of extra cosmetic items "just because they thought they should be in game".
If suddenly means "since 2003," then you are correct.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I completely agree with you. The point is, you are already paying a sub, shouldn't you get everything in that cash shop already? I mean really? Let's be a developers for a second. "Hey if we cut out all these face options and clothing options, we can add them in a optional cash shop and get some unlucky bastards for all they got just for playing our game".
Price of game + sub + cash shop for things that probably were supposed to be in already = fail.
But again, there is no evidence that this stuff would have been in the game had there not been a cash shop.
Let us be realistic. You know...you know what's up.
Ok, let's be realistic.
the earlier gaems did nto ahve a lot of cosmetic options. The only two games that I can recall that had a fairly decent amount of cosmetic options are CoX and EVE.
Everquest II not only had few gear options (cosmetically) but they were all horrible.
the only time these offerins were ever expanded were because of teh addition of a cash shop. IT's not like these games had 20 faces and all of a sudden have 5 with 15 in a cash shop. None of these examples people are pulling up really exist.
But "yes" I am very aware that publishers/developers are trying to comoditize their games as much as possible. they would sell us max level characters if the majority of players were ok with this.
What's happening is a happy medium.
They are going to comoditize their game as much as possible. That's not going to change.
Developers need more and more money and $15 per month just doesn't cut it anymore. espeically since that price has been the standard price for years and hasn't gone up.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Vesavius Originally posted by XasapisRight, so account services and a set of skins make a cash shop for you?
Account services obviously don't.
Skins? Absolutely.
At the least it is a water tester. A way to judge the community reaction. If you tolerate it, or worse participate, or worse then THAT publically defend it, then they WILL put more in.
This is the 'slippery slope' that so many talk about.
Slow boil your frogs... I guess they are learning from the masters of the craft at SOE.
I remember the same being said of WoW a few years ago when they put a mount up for sale.
So, exactly how many "pay to win" items are in WoWs cash shop? Ah, yes, none.
And no one is learning anything from SOE, not even SOE.
To those saying 'It's just cosmetic items, they have no effect on gameplay!!'
That's not the point, the point is if I grind out 24 hrs a day game play I can never get that item. I have to pay extra on top of what i'm already paying. It's so completely wrong for a game which is pay monthly to do this so quickly and there be no mention of it when it was released a few weeks ago.
Oh how i remember Tera players screaming with glee about the Gw2 cash shop and how it was pay to win etc etc. That's a cash shop with no p2w items in a b2p game. You have a cash shop in Tera with no p2w items in a game you have to pay monthly for which was never mentioned at release. Who is the bad guy now?
Best thing in the gw2 cash shop? I can grind out 24/7 to get gold, convert to crystals and buy ALL the things in the cash shop. I don't need to spend a penny.
If you pay for a game, every item in it should be obtainable in game, be it through money or time spent playing. If I want my sword to have that sexy skin, I should be able to get it with no extra cost to me monetary wise.
If the cash shop is successful don't you think they'll start adding in extra things? You're fooling yourselves if you don't think that's how it will go.
I glad I stopped playing, this sort of thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Your subscription, historically, gave you access to everything that they included in the game that they thuoght should be in the game.
...except the content they sold as expansions.
Suddenly game companies realize they can sell cosmetic items so they add more of these. I can't name many if any games that were p2p that had a plethora of extra cosmetic items "just because they thought they should be in game".
If suddenly means "since 2003," then you are correct.
I don't recall any p2p games that ahd a cash shop. Expansions yes, but not sellnig vanity items and the like. maye eastern games?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
To those saying 'It's just cosmetic items, they have no effect on gameplay!!'
That's not the point, the point is if I grind out 24 hrs a day game play I can never get that item. I have to pay extra on top of what i'm already paying.
So, you play EVE or Lineage 2? The reason I ask is because if you play almost any other MMO, I'm curious... do you buy expansions?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Oh how i remember Tera players screaming with glee about the Gw2 cash shop and how it was pay to win etc etc.
uh no.
That's not "Tera Players'.
Tha'ts a small subset of players who for some reason tie the game of their choice to their own self worth and feel that attacking/defending these games somehow validates their own choices.
Let's not feed that dysfunctional fire.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Your subscription, historically, gave you access to everything that they included in the game that they thuoght should be in the game.
...except the content they sold as expansions.
Suddenly game companies realize they can sell cosmetic items so they add more of these. I can't name many if any games that were p2p that had a plethora of extra cosmetic items "just because they thought they should be in game".
If suddenly means "since 2003," then you are correct.
I don't recall any p2p games that ahd a cash shop. Expansions yes, but not sellnig vanity items and the like. maye eastern games?
UO has sold furniture/items, expanded inventory, advanced characters and other content for almost ten years now.
In a rather clever way, Lineage 2 has done so for years by selling their anniversary and expansion versions with ingame items as an incentive. Any L2 player knows there's no other reason to buy an expansion or anniversary box other than the items.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Your subscription, historically, gave you access to everything that they included in the game that they thuoght should be in the game.
...except the content they sold as expansions.
Suddenly game companies realize they can sell cosmetic items so they add more of these. I can't name many if any games that were p2p that had a plethora of extra cosmetic items "just because they thought they should be in game".
If suddenly means "since 2003," then you are correct.
I don't recall any p2p games that ahd a cash shop. Expansions yes, but not sellnig vanity items and the like. maye eastern games?
UO has sold furniture/items, expanded inventory, advanced characters and other content for almost ten years now.
That's really interesting. And how did the core UO players take that?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Your subscription, historically, gave you access to everything that they included in the game that they thuoght should be in the game.
...except the content they sold as expansions.
Suddenly game companies realize they can sell cosmetic items so they add more of these. I can't name many if any games that were p2p that had a plethora of extra cosmetic items "just because they thought they should be in game".
If suddenly means "since 2003," then you are correct.
I don't recall any p2p games that ahd a cash shop. Expansions yes, but not sellnig vanity items and the like. maye eastern games?
UO has sold furniture/items, expanded inventory, advanced characters and other content for almost ten years now.
That's really interesting. And how did the core UO players take that?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Your subscription, historically, gave you access to everything that they included in the game that they thuoght should be in the game.
...except the content they sold as expansions.
Suddenly game companies realize they can sell cosmetic items so they add more of these. I can't name many if any games that were p2p that had a plethora of extra cosmetic items "just because they thought they should be in game".
If suddenly means "since 2003," then you are correct.
I don't recall any p2p games that ahd a cash shop. Expansions yes, but not sellnig vanity items and the like. maye eastern games?
UO has sold furniture/items, expanded inventory, advanced characters and other content for almost ten years now.
That's really interesting. And how did the core UO players take that?
I hardly call a few weapon skins a cash shop, most of it is just race change, gender change, appearence change etc....nothing different than what WoW has done but coming out with mounts and their services....
Same deal as WoW, if you didnt want mounts dont get em.....you dont want unique weapon skins....dont get em....
Well If this comes to the U.S version I am going to Drop my Subscription to this game seriously screw the double dipping paying cost that I would have to constantly pay to enjoy the game my way, I am actually going to take this to their forums and question it.
Like it or not I wouldn't mind paying a single time for the extra features but paying more than once screw it.
Comments
Right, so account services and a set of skins make a cash shop for you? In my opinion, you were so desperate to be right, you would proclaim anything a cash shop. And certainly, this isn't it.
Btw, Frogster is giving away skins and has not put any announcement about having any on sales, which makes the second part of your argument a strawman's ... again (at least for now).
As long as they sell cosmetic things and pets like WoW im fine. The day they start to sell pay to win items and other shit im out doesnt matter how good the game is.
Account services obviously don't.
Skins? Absolutely.
At the least it is a water tester. A way to judge the community reaction. If you tolerate it, or worse participate, or worse then THAT publically defend it, then they WILL put more in.
This is the 'slippery slope' that so many talk about.
Slow boil your frogs... I guess they are learning from the masters of the craft at SOE.
I really don't enjoy vanity items in P2P games. F2P and B2P, sure.
When I pay a sub fee, I feel like I'm paying to improve the game and fund development.
When vanity items are made available only for an additional fee, I feel like I've been denied an item that I've been paying to help create.
To be clear, I'm ok with appearance, gender, name changes, and race changes ($25 bucks for race change made me lol, though). Appearance, gender, name, and race are all things that are available to EVERYONE and you are simply paying to change your mind.
I would NOT be ok with UNIQUE appearances and races available in the cash shop for an additional fee. My SUBSCRIPTION FEE is already an additional fee.
If F2P or B2P do it, it's to keep developing. When a P2P does it, it's simply greed and divides the base. Especially when there is so much else that should be taken care of.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Ha Ha Ha
I don't care if Tera has a CS and sells some skins or mounts.
I don't care if NC sells lots of costume packs for CIty of games.
I don't care if WoW sells gender changes and server changes and mounts.
Hell, I don't care if some F2P asian grinder sells B2Win items.
I don't care a bit about what GW2 sells in it's CS.
I DO care about my money, and everyone else's money. I am a CAPITALIST.
If -you- care about what CSs sell, it is simple, don't play.
Or....prove ALL of them wrong and go to college, learn to write code, and hand us the holy grail of games. Yeah right.
If a Cash Shop is coming, that means possibly a removal of the subscription. Actually the subscription is the only thing that prevents me from playing TERA again (because the actual content doesn't deserve to pay 15$ per month imo), so I would be happy.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
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And I'm glad I got the chance to retouching and refine the looks of my main. To this day SWTOR would not had let me do this.
/happy as a clam
It's not and it's specious reasoning.
Your subscription, historically, gave you access to everything that they included in the game that they thuoght should be in the game.
Suddenly game companies realize they can sell cosmetic items so they add more of these. I can't name many if any games that were p2p that had a plethora of extra cosmetic items "just because they thought they should be in game".
City of heroes I think and that game was basing itself around the fact of uber customization.
If cosmetic/cash shop items suddenly became illegal you would not be seeing developers addign them to games on a regular basis "just because".
I would also go so far as to say that cosmetic items are definitly the lesser of the evils.
Would I prefer to have cosmetic items as a regular part of the game? sure! I'm probably one of the most vain people you'll meet. Heck, I got a special title in Warhammer just because I dyed my armor so many different times.
And Lord of the Rings could have made a LOT more money from me if they added more (and better) armor skins. So I get the need to visually customize my charfacter.
But these cash shops are NOT going away. Not. GW2 will have them and every game coming out in the near future will have some sort of cash shop.
So it's time players made that decision. You can either resign yourselves to thsi fact and get on with your lives or you can liver a miserable life and take every opportunity to come to forums to complain about it AND STILL play the games anyway.
Take a stand and don't play these games anymore if you hate and are vehemently opposed to cash shops.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I completely agree with you. The point is, you are already paying a sub, shouldn't you get everything in that cash shop already? I mean really? Let's be a developers for a second. "Hey if we cut out all these face options and clothing options, we can add them in a optional cash shop and get some unlucky bastards for all they got just for playing our game".
Price of game + sub + cash shop for things that probably were supposed to be in already = fail.
(-_-)
But again, there is no evidence that this stuff would have been in the game had there not been a cash shop.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Let us be realistic. You know...you know what's up.
(-_-)
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Ok, let's be realistic.
the earlier gaems did nto ahve a lot of cosmetic options. The only two games that I can recall that had a fairly decent amount of cosmetic options are CoX and EVE.
Everquest II not only had few gear options (cosmetically) but they were all horrible.
the only time these offerins were ever expanded were because of teh addition of a cash shop. IT's not like these games had 20 faces and all of a sudden have 5 with 15 in a cash shop. None of these examples people are pulling up really exist.
But "yes" I am very aware that publishers/developers are trying to comoditize their games as much as possible. they would sell us max level characters if the majority of players were ok with this.
What's happening is a happy medium.
They are going to comoditize their game as much as possible. That's not going to change.
Developers need more and more money and $15 per month just doesn't cut it anymore. espeically since that price has been the standard price for years and hasn't gone up.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Account services obviously don't.
Skins? Absolutely.
At the least it is a water tester. A way to judge the community reaction. If you tolerate it, or worse participate, or worse then THAT publically defend it, then they WILL put more in.
This is the 'slippery slope' that so many talk about.
Slow boil your frogs... I guess they are learning from the masters of the craft at SOE.
I remember the same being said of WoW a few years ago when they put a mount up for sale.
So, exactly how many "pay to win" items are in WoWs cash shop? Ah, yes, none.
And no one is learning anything from SOE, not even SOE.
SO...it begins. Sadly predicatble.
To those saying 'It's just cosmetic items, they have no effect on gameplay!!'
That's not the point, the point is if I grind out 24 hrs a day game play I can never get that item. I have to pay extra on top of what i'm already paying. It's so completely wrong for a game which is pay monthly to do this so quickly and there be no mention of it when it was released a few weeks ago.
Oh how i remember Tera players screaming with glee about the Gw2 cash shop and how it was pay to win etc etc. That's a cash shop with no p2w items in a b2p game. You have a cash shop in Tera with no p2w items in a game you have to pay monthly for which was never mentioned at release. Who is the bad guy now?
Best thing in the gw2 cash shop? I can grind out 24/7 to get gold, convert to crystals and buy ALL the things in the cash shop. I don't need to spend a penny.
If you pay for a game, every item in it should be obtainable in game, be it through money or time spent playing. If I want my sword to have that sexy skin, I should be able to get it with no extra cost to me monetary wise.
If the cash shop is successful don't you think they'll start adding in extra things? You're fooling yourselves if you don't think that's how it will go.
I glad I stopped playing, this sort of thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I don't recall any p2p games that ahd a cash shop. Expansions yes, but not sellnig vanity items and the like. maye eastern games?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
So, you play EVE or Lineage 2? The reason I ask is because if you play almost any other MMO, I'm curious... do you buy expansions?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
uh no.
That's not "Tera Players'.
Tha'ts a small subset of players who for some reason tie the game of their choice to their own self worth and feel that attacking/defending these games somehow validates their own choices.
Let's not feed that dysfunctional fire.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
UO has sold furniture/items, expanded inventory, advanced characters and other content for almost ten years now.
In a rather clever way, Lineage 2 has done so for years by selling their anniversary and expansion versions with ingame items as an incentive. Any L2 player knows there's no other reason to buy an expansion or anniversary box other than the items.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
That's really interesting. And how did the core UO players take that?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It was, and still is, cool extra stuff for the players that wanted it. The store was at UOGameCodes.com but has since been moved to the origin shop: http://store.origin.com/store/ea/search/?keywords=UO
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
And was there the same outcry that today's cash shops seem to be receiving?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I hardly call a few weapon skins a cash shop, most of it is just race change, gender change, appearence change etc....nothing different than what WoW has done but coming out with mounts and their services....
Same deal as WoW, if you didnt want mounts dont get em.....you dont want unique weapon skins....dont get em....
Well If this comes to the U.S version I am going to Drop my Subscription to this game seriously screw the double dipping paying cost that I would have to constantly pay to enjoy the game my way, I am actually going to take this to their forums and question it.
Like it or not I wouldn't mind paying a single time for the extra features but paying more than once screw it.
P2P + P2 Enjoy.