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3 faction world pvp in WOW
joocheese
Member Posts: 845
It appears that 3 faction world pvp is the new trend in mmos. My question is not if 3 faction world pvp will come to WOW but when. And when it comes, how will it look like?
If you were chosen as the manager to oversee the development of 3 faction world pvp in WOW how would you impliment it and what would it look like?
Comments
Possibly when Titan releases.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
If blizzard tried adding a third faction they would have to rewrite there whole games history, they can't do it so they won't. They'll most likely wait for Titan to try this and knowing the abysmal way blizzard hacks up pvp they will fail.
GL with a company that hasn't gotten anything right since 2004.
True...
But could they not do something to the effect of: "the old alliances have failed, new ones must be forged... war is upon us".
Blizzard is pretty good at scripting lore, though I agree with your comment about not getting anything right since '04, I believe they could pull it off... that is, if they did it right (I know, its a big "IF")
Nuke the pandas... Yep and let radiactivity mutate every creature there into a third faction.
You sure are optimistic seeing how Bliz is driven by the EA machine who's only interest is in perpetuating cloned concepts and stearing far and wide from revolutionary and original advancements in gaming in order to fuel short term money gains.
Titan will be exactly like all recent mmo's ... advertised as revolutionary but actually a compilation of polished systems proven time and time again to appeal to the masses with just enough new flashy mechanics to sell it to the public drones.
Bliz these days simply reminds me of the Mythbusters episode where they prove you can polish shit to an nice pretty shine.
You stay sassy!
wows engine cant handle it
thats why they made things like wintergrasp instead
It's not really a new trend, DAOC started a 3 faction pvp mmo years ago. It's just taken companies 10 years to get the idea it's a nice balance for pvp.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
I doubt they'll do 3 factions PvP. It would work for regular battlegrounds, but would cause havok in the full world and in the leveling.
Everything in WoW is laid in twos. For every questing area that leans heavily to one side in the vanilla world, there's another that leans to the other side in the same level range, and in cases where the questing is done by both sides in the same area, each one has their own towns and outposts, plus sometimes a neutral one.
Making WoW a 3 factions game would mean redesigning the whole world to create new areas for the third faction in the level ranges where areas are not shared, and new towns/outposts equivalent to the ones that already exist (along with everyhing that implies, for quests line, vendors, auction houses and so on). The location of main cities can be problematic since they're seem to be linked in twos (note that my knowledge of WoW is up to WotLK) as in SW - IF (tram), TB - OG (these are the ones "less" connected but still close to each other), UC - Silvermoon (teleport) and Darnassus - Exodar (boats to both share the same pier), and main city in WotLK is also divided in alliance-horde. So, basically, reorganizing the races on 3 factions (not hard, I always felt that undead - blood elves and probably worgen now could form their own faction) would be easy... remaking the world for the 3 factions to work (not just end game but whole leveling process), not so easy.
If anything, maybe their next MMO would be 3 factions.. WoW, very much doubt it.
Now, what they could do if they wanted to, is a 3 way battleground, maybe when you join you're assigned to one of 3 sides along with people from both factions..
What can men do against such reckless hate?
yeah, very good points.
As to the 3 way battlegrounds, they could do like GW2 and just make it server vs server vs server. It would be an "instultingly" obvious copy of GW2 but it would make for a much more fun battleground experience
I would start playing WoW again if they implemented 3 faction PVP.
What does Blizz have to do with EA other than being in a huge legal battle with them?
Not much at Blizzard has changed since they merged with Activision. They are still owned and controlled by the same parent company (Vivendi) , and still place style over substance, polish over depth.
You all heard that RIFT is adding 3 server PVP to their line up, didn't you? If Blizzard doesnt follow suit, they are going to get dusted in the PVP aspect of the game.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
No they wouldn't. Lore, history, or at least our understanding of it is not some monolithic unchangeable thing. As more is learned our understanding of what happened changes.
It would be very easy to simply make up a new race and have that race be at war with both factions currently. It happens all the time in stories and real world. Stories evolve over time, current events change and our understanding of the past changes.
Yup, that's why I started this thread. If I'm not mistaken DAoC was the first one to introduce 3 server/faction world pvp, but it appears that GW2, by bringing it back, has possibly made it "popular" once again, thus making it a "new trend" (I know its really not new). With all the hype and positive player base feedback, it seems that more dev companies are introducing the 3 server/faction world pvp mechanic into their games; which I think its wonderful!
I believe that if Blizzard does not find a way to introduce 3 server/faction world pvp into WOW, though in reality they may not be left behind regarding subs, I believe it will make them appear as if they are behind the pvp curve. Something, I believe Blizzard cannot afford to allow.
Tayah is perfectly right - Hail to our Lord and Master DAoC! - except that other MOs have tried to go with more than 2 factions.
Aika for example has 5 nations that all have their own personality and relate differently to each other.
Just too bad that a) pretty much nobody really cared enough about these "factions" and b) you didn't actually have to choose one...
The secret is not just to have 3 factions, but to actually balance them against each other (no "we are neutral" backdoor) and, and this is where GW2's WvWvW system will fail in the mid/long run, make you not just care about your own faction but also to make you hate the other 2.
In DAoC an Alb could say "I see the stinking hippie are on the march again, time to kick some elven arse!" or "Shit, here come the rug boys with their hammers... man, will those morons ever learn to just stay home and lick their frosticles?"
But in GW2...? "Hey, look, we are fighting the reds and the blues again (who other than having a different colour tag look just like us)" - "No, these are not the reds you are looking for, it was other reds you were fighting 3 weeks ago..."
*burp*
Now, I never played WoW - yes, I'm one of the lucky few - but maybe Blizz could launch an alien attack on WoW? Maybe WoW - Starcraft Edition? ;-)
As the saying goes..."The only constant in the universe is change."
Its too bad WoW didnt have a 3rd faction from day 1....It would have been alot more fun if it had.
Titan will be exactly like all recent mmo's ... advertised as revolutionary but actually a compilation of polished systems proven time and time again to appeal to the masses with just enough new flashy mechanics to sell it to the public drones.
Bliz these days simply reminds me of the Mythbusters episode where they prove you can polish shit to an nice pretty shine.
That's not optimism. It's just possible that Titan will have 3 faction PvP. We don't really know what Blizzard is doing with Titan, so it could be anything. 3 faction PvP, player housing, dual wielding 6 shooters in space. Who knows? It could be awesome. Or it could be drivel. There's no use speculating on it though, other than to say anything is possible at this point. Well, that and Blizzard isn't putting 3 faction PvP in WoW.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It was actually Anarchy Online that started the 3 faction pvp trend(it released about 6 months before DAOC). In my mind it was superior in the fact that you could talk with group with the other factions (note there was a neutral faction), and even defect. It even had FFA areas where there was no "Suppression Gas" and in those areas even pvp between the same faction was allowed.
The way this game is getting away with all the bad decisions from Blizzard and holding a big and solid sub base is simply staggering and unbelievable. This is really a case study, not only in gaming industry, but in human behaviour also.
If they ever add 3 faction world pvp, unlikely but not impossible, i can honestly say that it will make no difference at all, because one way or the other WoW will live on....it just makes me
to Blizzard.
Why? Isn't WoW the most current lore, timeline wise? I thought this was the continuation of the story and that no lore has actually been written that goes beyond the events of WoW.
In that regard you don't rewrite anything, you ADD to the lore. They could make it work in whatever fashion they wanted.
In my opinion it would be Alliance, Horde, Forsaken. Cataclysm, what little I played, seemd to poin to some level of tension between the horde and forsaken. I got the impression that the horde were starting to look see the forsaken as not being any better then arthas and his undead army. Aren't the forsaken now making new forsaken on their own, no longer needing to free forsaken, they can raise the dead into their ranks now. Am I remember what I played through incorrectly here?
Forsaken is already a faction unto itself anyways, only working with the horde out of mutual need, not respect or like. Once the forsaken have the numbers, they no longer need the horde, something else I thought was a part of the forsaken quest line in cat.
They could even introduce some new undead races for you to play. Like an undead orc, or troll, to fill in the forsaken factions race selection. Seriously, who wouldn't want to play a zombie tauren?
Edit, I was supposed to be quoting the guy that stated that blizzard would have to rewrite all the lore to add a third faction.
It's not really a new trend, DAOC started a 3 faction pvp mmo years ago. It's just taken companies 10 years to get the idea it's a nice balance for pvp.
Tayah is perfectly right - Hail to our Lord and Master DAoC! - except that other MOs have tried to go with more than 2 factions.
Aika for example has 5 nations that all have their own personality and relate differently to each other.
Just too bad that a) pretty much nobody really cared enough about these "factions" and b) you didn't actually have to choose one...
The secret is not just to have 3 factions, but to actually balance them against each other (no "we are neutral" backdoor) and, and this is where GW2's WvWvW system will fail in the mid/long run, make you not just care about your own faction but also to make you hate the other 2.
In DAoC an Alb could say "I see the stinking hippie are on the march again, time to kick some elven arse!" or "Shit, here come the rug boys with their hammers... man, will those morons ever learn to just stay home and lick their frosticles?"
But in GW2...? "Hey, look, we are fighting the reds and the blues again (who other than having a different colour tag look just like us)" - "No, these are not the reds you are looking for, it was other reds you were fighting 3 weeks ago..."
*burp*
Now, I never played WoW - yes, I'm one of the lucky few - but maybe Blizz could launch an alien attack on WoW? Maybe WoW - Starcraft Edition? ;-)
You do realize that in gw2 the color coding is just to keep things simple in the heat of battle. Click on "N" and you can immediately see who you are fighting. Winning servers well battle other winning servers as the Weeks go by, losing severs will fight other losing servers, etc, etc. a the wvw tournament progresses, there is going to be some real nasty rivalries between the servers. Due to the gw2 wvw format, the battles will be more balanced, thus increasing the rivalry; unlike unbalanced factions (like in wow). If anything I believe wvw will be better in gw2I could easily see the Forsaken move away from the Horde. You would need more than one race though to make 3 faction pvp work.
As far as the leveling goes how hard is it to make a quest hub and just clone the quests from the other 2 factions. They do it now between the Horde and alliance.
I really don't see Blizzard doing 3 faction pvp but I guess anything is possible and if they had some kind of proof they could stop the bleeding of subs they may well try it.
The tauren and trolls have become increasingly mistrusting of the antics of Hellscream. Baine approaches the night elves about an alliance between trolls, elves, worgen and tauren, in an effort to stop the bloody war between the horde and the alliance that constantly trashes their beloved world. They call themselves the Protectorate of Azeroth, and vow to guard the way of the Earthmother.
The Alliance goes on with gnomes, dwarves, men, and Draenei, and the Horde with orcs, goblins, blood elves, and the forsaken.
I don't know much about wow lore, but that could probably work, and would offer up some pretty disparate factions.
Sorry, I don't agree - and yes, we could have a long debate about this but, well, fact is that aside from the BWE there really is very little data on the longrun effect of WvWvW.
So, it's all speculation on both your end and mine.
What I will say though are certain basics:
In DAoC the rivalry was intimate: if you wanted to go and smack some goodie Albs you got a group together and went. Same for any other RvR combination.
Only limitation: that particular Alb/Hip/Mid player that you wanted to give a shiner, he may at this time not be online...
In GW2 everything is (apparently) based on a tournament and rotation system.
So, depending on duration of each rotation and the number of servers, the calculation of who is the winner, who came second, who came last (to avaid potentially matching up to losers who were just at each others throat, etc. it could be months, maybe even years before a server feud can be "re-kindled".
Unless GW2 were to include "choice matches" but I'd be very careful in considering how that then may work with a persistant tournamennt setup...
You are bringing up the concept of balanced... I will call this 2 things a) bland and b) an illusion.
a) bland - because there really is nothing that sets the enemy apart from your own "realm". AN couldn't even be bothered to give your enemy some sort of fake faction e.g. the enemy red Norn - supposedly - being Sons of Svanir.
No, AN just makes then red Norn or blue Norn or green Norn...
tell me, when was the last time you played a warfare game (RTS, large scale FPS, etc) where the enemies weren't somebody, where they were the same just a different colour?
Probably when you and somebody else chose the same army... but this isn't even supposed to be a RTS, this is supposed to be a RPG! So, yeah, a random skirmish, that could be with anybody, I don't care, 20 - 30 min headbanging and then it's over... but for a real war? Don't even consider waking me or my character if all you can give me is "well, they look like us... but they are green!"
b) illusion - if you have experience with MMORPGs you know that usually the game designers are constantly at work re-balancing the classes. Which is perfectly natural because some gamer may have come up with an innovative new way of using his, say, Guardian and suddenly he becomes OP... shortly by followed by many Guardian players adapting that style of play because would you rather follow a strategy where you may win but that is more comfortable to you, or a strategy that will pretty much guarantee your win... until some player of one of the other classes figures out a way how to cut the guardian back.
By that time the OP shouting has made AN nerf the Guardian... who now suddenly is the weakest class on the field. This will be in noway different than the nerfing in e.g. SWTOR because somebody always feels that another class is OP.
And I think you will have to agree that not all classes are equal in GW2 when matched against each other.
So, pretty much this "balance" becomes a simply numbers game:
red fields 15 Necros, 11 warriors, 14 Rangers, 15 Elements, 8 Guardians, 6 Mesmer, 4 Engineers, 11 Thieves.
Experience dictates that 1 Necro can be taken down by 1 Guardian, 1 Warrior, 2 Mesmers, 1 Thief, etc. (this is obviously completely random in setup, but there will be people who will try to determine these numbers. And they will try to coach their team how to win: by fielding the right numbers yourself!
Unless you are talking really exactly the same numbers on opposing sides and also gamers of equal skill even a siimple 2 faction match may easily become unbalanced. Worse still: you have 3 factions fighting, potentially wildcards in all factions who give a fuck about what the numbersmen say and BOOOM! you have the typical chaos that is the norm in modern warfare... unless you'd rather work on a gentlemen's level and have clear cut lines marching against each other?
You still sticking with "perfectly balanced factions" in GW2?
And what about all those "losers" who logged out after losing the fight for Keep A but now red has set their eyes on Keep B?
Have fun crunching the numbers... but too bad that there maybe a bad player in this class or that?
I'd rather go at the whole thing with an open mind and see what happens...