Kane makes a point though admirker. Eq1 really never seemed to top any HUGE numbers but that game is now 6 years old and is still going. I would also venture to say that whatever SOE spends on expansion packs, they will get back and more.
I think the amount of content availble in Eq2 will do it some good in the long run as well. I think Eq2 will eventually get a stream of players tired of what theyre playing, and might give Eq2 a chance. I agree that SOE probably thought they might get more players than they have. The advertising push they put on is proof. But, Sony is a company, meaning if they were losing money on Eq2 it would be shut down instantly. If Eq1 is still going then it's foolish to say Eq2 is some financial disaster considering it has a larger palyer base.
Originally posted by admriker444 Healthy profit defined as what, 5 million per month ? For a multi-billion dollar corporation that hardly even seems worth the manpower. After costs, I'd guess its probably 3 million pe month or 36 million a year. To put that into perspective...that covers one high lvl suit's bonus for the year (if he met expectations) Sony will see one hit game for its PS2 make that amount and not require manpower to maintain it. Plus it will make that amount quite quickly. Thats the key...yes EQ2 will make some money over the long term. However stockholders and the rest of the business world arent interested in the long term. Its what did you make this past 3 months that matters. Therefore to the business world EQ2 failed. I guarantee you heads have rolled over at SOE or been shuffled at the very least.
That really isn't true at all. In fact, it's wrong in every conceivable way.
Multi-billion dollar companies generally reach that status with many business units. Not every unit needs to be as profitable as the most profitable one. Just because Unit A makes more than Unit B doesn't mean Unit B is a failure. The issue is whether Unit B is reasonably profitable. And the simple fact is that the market in one area can become saturated, i.e., maybe it's not reasonably possible to increase sales in Unit A at a reasonable cost. According to your business theory, if you owned a restaurant and your profit margin was greater on a ham sandwich than a roast beef, you'd say well screw the roast beef ... let them all eat ham. Bzzzt, sorry, won't work.
EQ1 was an enormous success with a much slower start than EQ2. EQ games are designed to produce major cash flow over long periods (and they do just that) - not just to cash in on fast box sales followed up by "er, well, what now". Different business model. And maybe you should be damned glad that somebody wants to be in it for the long haul. The genre isn't going to be shaped or advanced by the companies looking to cash in quick.
In any event I don't see BMW shutting down because Chevy sells more cars, and the simple reality is that it costs a hell of a lot more to design a BMW than a Chevy.
It really baffles me why some of you want so badly to see SOE fail. If's a frickin company for god's sake. It employs people just like you know and just like who lives next door to you. They try and sometimes they suceed and sometimes they fail. If you like something, buy it, if you don't get over it and do something else. Don't turn thing into some childish obsession or pseudo religion. It's business ... of course they all want to make money ... all you whiners will be the first ones to do the same thing if/when the opportunity presents itself.
P.S. You know, now that I think about it, admirker, things were a lot more peaceful around here while you were playing WOW, which I guess was once viewed as your savior of gaming ... man that was a short lived messiah wasn't it
/rant 1.....At one point in time in it's hayday, EQ 1 toped 700K i belive, i know it has gone over atleast 600K, it was north america's most popular MMORPG, (i say north america,, cause in Asia, they got lineage, and that is still like 2mil subscribers i belive) but EQ 2 will grow, and there will be more subscribers, and as like EQ 1, peopel will flock to it over the next year or so, and the population will grow, and S.O.E. AND the stock should understand that it will take time, they launced with a nother very good game, and that there are a lot of people out there that will play both, or play WoW, then go to EQ2 after they "beat" WoW, or when Blizard has major problems, liek they are having with too many peopel the servers are getting overloaded and crashing, and that my friend is not good for business, you also gotta remember, EQ 2 has high system requirement, and people may also be tiding them selves over with WoW till they can upgrade then go to EQ 2, there are a lot of people who are doing that, i know quiet a few, anyways, have a nice day..../rant 0
webBear1000, without knowing exactly why you were disappointed in the game, it's hard to say whether it's worth your while to come back. If you provide more info we may be able to tell you things about the game.
As for the economic issue of EQ2, the person who posted the reason why EQ2 can be considered a market failure has very many valid points. However, another thing to consider is that not everything has to be profitable right from the get-go. When the PS2 and Xbox first launched, Sony and Microsoft were selling them at a loss, expecting the royalties for games to make up for it, and make up for it they did. Also, when something is not doing well economically and isn't generating nearly enough revenue, companies are motivated to improve the product in order to make it profitable. It doesn't make sense to spend R&D on something for months/years just to drop it because it hasn't churned out millions in profits within the first few months. Hence why I'm confused as to why Wish was cancelled...
In any case, my projections tell me that EQ2 will only get more popular as time goes by. Currently in the MMORPG market, the previous generation of MMORPGs such as EQ1 and DAOC are getting old and stale and players are looking for a new game to play. Many of them went over to World of Warcraft and some came over to EQ2. Currently there's nothing else that's enticing enough to offer to the majority of players.
However, with the current state of how Blizzard is handling WoW, it's doomed to collapse at one point due to the unsatisfactory way Blizzard is treating their customers. Unstable servers, unjust bans with no appeal, little high-end content, and canned responses to GM tickets and questions will eventually be enough to drive any player away, regardless of how good the game is. In a way Blizzard has paved their own downfall due to their immense popularity and huge fanbase.
Another issue to consider is that WoW is fun...but only for the short term. I really don't see anything that would hold players as they reach level 60. You can only PvP so much before getting bored, and you can only do so many raids before it becomes a grind. Coupled with the near useless crafting and ease of levelling, it's the kind of game that's fun in short bursts but becomes a bore once you've had enough. Typical Blizzard game, actually. For those of you who want to compare this to a FPS, the argument is invalid. There is a huge difference between moving your mouse and aiming a crosshair at someone's head versus clicking on a mob and hitting your hotkeys. One is fast-paced and requires quick reflexes, the other merely requires you to hit a couple of keys periodically.
As these WoW players realize Blizzard's incompetency at running a MMORPG and get tired of having little to do in the game, they'll eventually quit and start looking at other games. That's where EQ2 comes in, being the only other real choice for a truly MASSIVE multiplayer online game.
Sure, you can call me an EQ fanboy and a Blizzard hater, but I have no prior attachment to either companies or games. I never played EQ before or even a SOE game before EQ2 and was indifferent to them. I have played Starcraft and enjoyed it and played Warcraft 3 and didn't like it very much, and I bought World of Warcraft the first day it came out because I didn't feel like attending my lecture class and went to GameStop instead where I found out it was selling. Same with EQ2, I found out they were running the Trial of Isle and played it and instantly got hooked. I had my time with WoW, got bored when I reached level 23. Couldn't stand quest grinding and useless partying. I'm still playing EQ2 now and it's still fun for me, but I'm not sure how long that'll last. I don't see myself getting bored in the near future though, that's for sure.
Good stuff Ranma About a month ago I went and picked up WoW. It was immense fun for awhile but then it kind of faded. Since then I've focused back on Eq2 and I'm having a blast.
To the OP, I would say give it another try. At higher levels (20 and above really) the players seem to be smarter and the groups are a lot more enjoyable. You will also notice quite a few more solo quests/content if thats what you're in to. Leveling is definitley slower than WoW but the amount of content is awesome.
Originally posted by Ranma13 webBear1000, without knowing exactly why you were disappointed in the game, it's hard to say whether it's worth your while to come back. If you provide more info we may be able to tell you things about the game. As for the economic issue of EQ2, the person who posted the reason why EQ2 can be considered a market failure has very many valid points. However, another thing to consider is that not everything has to be profitable right from the get-go. When the PS2 and Xbox first launched, Sony and Microsoft were selling them at a loss, expecting the royalties for games to make up for it, and make up for it they did. Also, when something is not doing well economically and isn't generating nearly enough revenue, companies are motivated to improve the product in order to make it profitable. It doesn't make sense to spend R&D on something for months/years just to drop it because it hasn't churned out millions in profits within the first few months. Hence why I'm confused as to why Wish was cancelled... You're right, it wouldnt make sense to chuck a game early on. The only reason a devloper might do such a thing like Wish did was really bad projections for future costs and profits. If they relied on investors (no clue who develped the game) instead of a parent company the money might just have dried up. In any case, my projections tell me that EQ2 will only get more popular as time goes by. Currently in the MMORPG market, the previous generation of MMORPGs such as EQ1 and DAOC are getting old and stale and players are looking for a new game to play. Many of them went over to World of Warcraft and some came over to EQ2. Currently there's nothing else that's enticing enough to offer to the majority of players. Its always possible that it could grow in population. There does seem to be a gap right now in really decent options for mmorpgs. However, if you look at that chart for mmorpg populations, it seems to follow classic product patterns. A large boom, some levelling out followed by another shorter climb in sales, then its starts to decline a bit (or a lot if major issues are discovered), and eventually the player base settles into numbers that rarely move much. I think if that pattern would continue then EQ2 is pretty much set for numbers and wont really grow that much. As the mmorpg chart shows, at that point pretty much for every one person that leaves they are replaced by just one person...hence zero growth. Also, expansion packs are there for existing players only. With the exception of JTL, no expansion is gonna draw in more players. However, with the current state of how Blizzard is handling WoW, it's doomed to collapse at one point due to the unsatisfactory way Blizzard is treating their customers. Unstable servers, unjust bans with no appeal, little high-end content, and canned responses to GM tickets and questions will eventually be enough to drive any player away, regardless of how good the game is. In a way Blizzard has paved their own downfall due to their immense popularity and huge fanbase. I have to agree here. Blizzard is making some bad mistakes with its player base. And due to their maturity level, I doubt they'll be as understanding and forgiving as say players were with SWG for as long as we were lol. Another issue to consider is that WoW is fun...but only for the short term. I really don't see anything that would hold players as they reach level 60. You can only PvP so much before getting bored, and you can only do so many raids before it becomes a grind. Coupled with the near useless crafting and ease of levelling, it's the kind of game that's fun in short bursts but becomes a bore once you've had enough. Typical Blizzard game, actually. For those of you who want to compare this to a FPS, the argument is invalid. There is a huge difference between moving your mouse and aiming a crosshair at someone's head versus clicking on a mob and hitting your hotkeys. One is fast-paced and requires quick reflexes, the other merely requires you to hit a couple of keys periodically. I recently left. Yes, the game is really fun and to be honest I knew it would be a short ride. I purposely levelled extrememly slow making sure to do every quest and max out fishing/cooking/firstaid to 300 and tried several crafting prof and maxed them all as well. Even still, I did everything in 2 months. Its definitely like CoH in that there's just not much to do once you beat the game. As these WoW players realize Blizzard's incompetency at running a MMORPG and get tired of having little to do in the game, they'll eventually quit and start looking at other games. That's where EQ2 comes in, being the only other real choice for a truly MASSIVE multiplayer online game. Well there is SWG also. Its getting a lot of fixes that are really making the game amazing. Everyone always said when they quit that the game had the potential to be the best mmorpg around. Finally the devs and lucas are making that a reality. Sure, you can call me an EQ fanboy and a Blizzard hater, but I have no prior attachment to either companies or games. I never played EQ before or even a SOE game before EQ2 and was indifferent to them. I have played Starcraft and enjoyed it and played Warcraft 3 and didn't like it very much, and I bought World of Warcraft the first day it came out because I didn't feel like attending my lecture class and went to GameStop instead where I found out it was selling. Same with EQ2, I found out they were running the Trial of Isle and played it and instantly got hooked. I had my time with WoW, got bored when I reached level 23. Couldn't stand quest grinding and useless partying. I'm still playing EQ2 now and it's still fun for me, but I'm not sure how long that'll last. I don't see myself getting bored in the near future though, that's for sure.
There are a lot of flaws in your "lesson". You are thinking of SWG and EQ2 as two different companies, they aren't. If you look at it that way any company that turns a profit in less than 5 years is successful. Making a profit in less than a quarter is outstanding.
Not only that, anytime you can make a 6% profit on an investment in 4 months is friggin' unbelieveable. Property is said to be the best investment, and that only averages out to 3% a year. You really need to look at the numbers again before trying to "teach" anyone.
You are also only figuring cost of subsciption, totally forgeting about the pure profit of the advanced profiles, guild pages etc. Only extra cost is some space on a server they had to maintain anyway.
No, I'd have to say your analysis is way off the mark, without even considering the fact that in an interview NCSoft an MMO only needs to have about 150k subscribers to be successful.
Again it took SWG a year to get 295k subscribers.
To the person who wanted to talk about WoW's numbers: That is over 1mil boxes sold NOT active subscriptions, but again not really relevant.
OK, I was a bit off. EQ1 topped off at about 460k. Currently its at about 420k. EQ2, 4.5 months after release is at somewhere close to 350k. Dissapointing? Maybe so. But then, I dont really care about the business end of all this, as long as I'm enjoying the game, which I am. As long as they dont shut it down tomorrow, I'll be happy.
Please do not mis understand my bluntness for being rude but:
SOE has introduced "Adventure packs" and the "/pizza" command, they've locked every constructive post I've made on their boards (all 4 of them)....
I am utterly and absoutley convicnced that a> SOE is the worst gaming company ever
b> Their product is a cash grab and they will milk you and I for every penny they can with the ruse that they care about your gaming experience. They do not care about your gaming experinece or they would have released a gaming world in which your actions made sense. EQ II is half baked on so many levels.
c> Everquest II is still in beta, but gradually coming out.
d> EQ II will never be the game I had personally hoped for because my hopes for a new game left when Brad left.
I can not tell you how disappointed I am with this game, but SOE will have to put two blue moons in the sky and get rid of every egotistical "moderator" they have on their boards before I would even consider going back and even then I dont think I would.
If Wow isn't your cup of tea eihter I personally reccomend EVE Online, but thats just me. Its 2nd in player ratings for a reason....I have nothing bad to say about Wow, granted, its a great product, just not my thing.
SOE on the other hand, blew it hard core, they blew their crafting system at release, they blew my faith in them within 2 weeks of playing the game and....bah I could go on but you get the point.
IMO dont go back, go play Ultima online if you must but dont positively renforce SOE with their /pizza commands and pay -as - you - zone features.
Originally posted by darquenblade ARGH! Will people give the /pizza thing a friggin' rest already?
lol, just another one-post wonder Doesn't matter much does it. If the whiners ain't whining about one thing, they'll be whining about another. The simple fact is that the vast majority of people on this board are casual gamers and box game people ... they don't know a serious MMORPG from the, er well, you know
Thank god SOE doesn't listen to them.
Out of curiosity I've been asking people in the games (EQ1/2) if they ever read this board, and I haven't found anyone yet who's even heard of it. Thankfully, there's a totally different group in the games and on these boards.
Originally posted by darquenblade ARGH! Will people give the /pizza thing a friggin' rest already?
lol, just another one-post wonder Doesn't matter much does it. If the whiners ain't whining about one thing, they'll be whining about another. The simple fact is that the vast majority of people on this board are casual gamers and box game people ... they don't know a serious MMORPG from the, er well, you know
Thank god SOE doesn't listen to them.
Out of curiosity I've been asking people in the games (EQ1/2) if they ever read this board, and I haven't found anyone yet who's even heard of it. Thankfully, there's a totally different group in the games and on these boards.
a serios MMORPG? Lol what a loser who takes MMO's seriosly i mean jesus christ dude get a life!
Originally posted by darquenblade ARGH! Will people give the /pizza thing a friggin' rest already?
lol, just another one-post wonder Doesn't matter much does it. If the whiners ain't whining about one thing, they'll be whining about another. The simple fact is that the vast majority of people on this board are casual gamers and box game people ... they don't know a serious MMORPG from the, er well, you know
Thank god SOE doesn't listen to them.
Out of curiosity I've been asking people in the games (EQ1/2) if they ever read this board, and I haven't found anyone yet who's even heard of it. Thankfully, there's a totally different group in the games and on these boards.
a serios MMORPG? Lol what a loser who takes MMO's seriosly i mean jesus christ dude get a life! Speaking of being a bit too serious....
Originally posted by darquenblade ARGH! Will people give the /pizza thing a friggin' rest already?
lol, just another one-post wonder Doesn't matter much does it. If the whiners ain't whining about one thing, they'll be whining about another. The simple fact is that the vast majority of people on this board are casual gamers and box game people ... they don't know a serious MMORPG from the, er well, you know
Thank god SOE doesn't listen to them.
Out of curiosity I've been asking people in the games (EQ1/2) if they ever read this board, and I haven't found anyone yet who's even heard of it. Thankfully, there's a totally different group in the games and on these boards.
First off yes it was my first post...sorry that my first post offended you so much. 2nd I am not a causal gamer and nor did I start out to flame anyone. The orignal post was posed as a question so I gave an answer by example.
EQII lacks cohesion to its canon, there is no point as of yet in housing, when the game was launched all the player models looked the same (no unique graphics for differing items)....the crafting system is highly generic....make item x at lvl 10 make item x1 at lvl 20......
I'm no noob, I played Ultima Online religiously, EQI religiously and I eagerly awaited the launch of Everquest II. I followed the game and waited patiently to particiapte in the beta. I don't play WoW and I cancled my EQII account but I can tell you that the general perception of the gaming community is WoW is a superior product (the numbers speak for themselves).
The /pizza command is an example that hits the nail on the head for me for SOE and its "2nd generation" MMO. If you enjoy the game thats great (I don't recall insulting you and I'm slightly perplexed what you've bothered to waste your time doing so on me) but the OP asked a question on a board where, generally, people are encouraged to provide their opinion.
SOE has made it clearly obvious they have a time table for things like their adventure packs, and the /pizza command and the like. They 've made it apparant that this time table is more important then the quality of the game they intend to "value add" to. SOE has proven time and time again their customer service sucks (as an understatement) and their board community mod's are pompus and oddly power hungry.
I'm happy for those that enjoy the game....but IMO (read those letters, spell them out if you must darquenblade) EQII is still in beta, the game was released without a heart and is nothing more then classic SOE exp grind coupled with extra money grabs.
There are far better games out there, far , far better games. SOE had their chance and they blew it, while still trying to stick their hands in my pocket. They promised to kill the camp lol they used those actual words.
I realize now that Brad McQuad and CO. was everquest and SOE was riding the wave. It was Brad's vision that i connected with and its his vision I intend to check out. SOE couldn't make a MMO if they had exclusive rights to the internet, because they are more concerned with making value added components then they are making a good strong , core component.
Sorry for the digression, but people who flame piss me off.
Okay, for the sake of argument, I'll momentarily allow for the possibility, however slight (and I do consider it very slight), that your post is legitimate. Unfortunately, what we tend to see here is an endless stream of WOW fans (the most bizarre bunch of people I have ever run across in gaming), who make up new IDs, register them, and then put up 1-10 post for the sole purpose of attacking EQ2 (for some reason that completely escapes me - I guess their religious obligations to Blizzard). And then, when challenged, they all claim to be seasoned pros at MMORPGs. You happen to fit that profile perfectly ... you registered today, and then your first and only post was to attack EQ2, said post being merely a bash, lacking any detail which which would indicate that you have any idea what you're talking about. And you still don't know any detail. Sorry my man, you look completely fishy.
Now, you did say that you made four "constructive" posts on the SOE boards and all were locked. Hmmm, clue no. 2.
Third, you say you played for two weeks and you feel the game is still in beta. If there is one thing EQ2 isn't in, it's beta. You state that they've added adventure packs and the /pizza command, thereby demonstrating that you don't have the slightest clue what's been going on as they've poured massive amounts of content into the game constantlty for months.
As far as the "general perception of the gaming community", I couldn't give an undead rat's ass what the majority thinks. Unlike, apparently, you, I don't pick music, cars, food, or anything else in life based on what the majority thinks. The majority is probably well represented by the astute 13-year-old who threw in his, umm, "input" a couple posts up. Thus, my goal in gaming is to find out where they are so that I can maked damned sure to stay as far away from them as I can. Thank you, Blizzzard.
Sorry, your brief presumption os innocence has now expired. Guilty as charged. You came here to troll, and you got called on it. If you happen to hang around on this ID, which I doubt. it's only a matter of time before we see your true colors come out.
Yes, defending oneself in an agressive manner does tend to come across as a troll, for that I appolgize. I realized the implications of defending myself but nonetheless elected to do so. :}
I am not a pro-wow fanboi, I have my own reservations about that game, but didn't bother to express them. I'm also sorry for coming in and slamming SOE soooo hard. My emotions on the topic are very high, because I wanted so very much to for EQII to be something for me it isnt.
I plan on remaining a poster on these forums, so you can expect to see the odd post by me (although I've been a lurker for for some time and my remain so). I can appreciate the issue at hand, people creating accounts slamming EQII, I would be upset too if EQII is where I put my game time.
I guess what I'm saying is I only had the intention of expressing great disdain for EQ II and ended up pissing off those that don't agree. The only point I'd like to clarify is I played EQII longer then two weeks, I atually played for a couple of months.
My UO chars were 7x GM back in teh day and I had one lvl 65 pally with 100 odd AA and a lvl 55 enchanter in EQI. I consider myself a relatively experienced gamer.
So again, sorry for offending the EQII fans, I'm glad you are enjoying your game but I will not refrain from expressing the problems the game has or my general dislike of SOE's "i dont give a rat's ass attitude". I put my money where my feet are and walked from the "new" norrath. SOE created a big let down with EQII for many people, I happen to be one of them.
Rekindle, since you've been so respectful, I'll try and keep it in the same vein.
What, exactly, do you find to be at fault in the core gameplay of EQ2? Or is it a multitude of smaller things? I, personally, have ZERO attachment to EQ1, so not being faithful to the old lore is no problem for me. As a new EQ2 player, I'm curious what issues, if any, I may run into later. Thanks!
I only have one problem with EQ2. I don't crap on EQ2 for being what it is, I know what it is, its not flawed because it still harkens back to MUD design concepts, and is mechanically different than most progressive MMOs. Thats how EQ1 was and it wouldnt be EQ2 if it wasn't like this.
Now my only one problem -- everyone looks the same. I played trial of the isle, and there is such a lack of customizability its baffling. It's on SWGs engine and is less customizable. It PARTLY makes sense to me -- theyh ave soooo many more races than SWG, so it'd be a lot more work. Anywho, apart from that its still an 'armor' game so you still have people within the same classes who dress nearly if not identical at any given level so they can be most efficient. Besides that EQ2 does a lot of good things as far as I can tell and is the only Fantasy MMO I'd currently even ponder paying for. The lack of individualization ruins it for me as a Role Player.
I know a few of you guys will try to argue my point but what reinforces my opinion the most in this regard is the fact that there is a user on these forums here Bobjones something, his sig I believe has his character in it, his face. My friend who plays EQ2 looks EXACTLY I mean /EXACTLY/ the same. Down to a tee -- but they aren't the same person. Those are my two cents -- the other arguements are petty, zoning is no big deal.
Originally posted by Wickes Okay, for the sake of argument, I'll momentarily allow for the possibility, however slight (and I do consider it very slight), that your post is legitimate. Unfortunately, what we tend to see here is an endless stream of WOW fans (the most bizarre bunch of people I have ever run across in gaming), who make up new IDs, register them, and then put up 1-10 post for the sole purpose of attacking EQ2 (for some reason that completely escapes me - I guess their religious obligations to Blizzard). And then, when challenged, they all claim to be seasoned pros at MMORPGs.
I'll tell you one thing. I personally came over to mmorpg.com and registered for one thing.....
The sole purpose of attacking EQ2. I can't say I was promised anything by SOE, but it wasn't this pile of stink I paid 50 bucks for plus 2 months of fees.
I feel ripped off. EQ2, whilst in development, promised various qualities among the forums and faq's and such. It did not deliver; was nearly false advertisement.
I am more likely to feel that Blizzard deliviered more of what it promised. I covered both games considerably for years. I feel satisfied that Blizzard crafted the game they promised. EQ2 came out NOTHING like I expected.
With all the talk about servers being down at blizzard... Wasn't ALL of EQ2 down for over 2 days once??? Or did I dream this.....? I'm honestly not sure...
I won't be surprised when Blizzard starts doling out new matieral WITHOUT charging for it. It's a company that knows what their customers want, and how to keep them.
P.S. I'm starting to feel conversations like this are analogue to political right/left discussions
Dude you are totally clueless and obviously not being objective. How the hell can you compare EQ2 being down for 16hours of unscheduled downtime TOTAL, to the months that WoW has had unscheduled down time. Look on the tech forum right now, and you'll see two days worth of server outages and restarts.
You know the battle grounds that WoW is just now getting to? That was promised at realese. Now you name something EQ2 doesn't have that was promised.
EQ2 has added 8 new areas to explore, without anyone paying an extra dime, what has WoW added? Server queues, call that content if you want, but I call it dropping the ball.
Thank you loeslein ... a ray of light in the darkness. You have renewed (temporarily, at least =p) my faith in mankind. And I do not say that with the slightest bit of sarcasm.
It is just SO damned refreshing to see a man who comes in openly and says precisely what he means in a straightforward manner and without the pathetic subterfuge which is so typical here. With such honesty and candor, I cannot but respect your opinion, regardless of whether and how much I disagree with it. Thus I will not debate you concerning either game. Well, maybe later ...
But for now I salute you as a gentleman and scholar, and I truly hope your chosen game provides you the satisfaction that you seek from it. In the end that is all we all seek, isn't it. If only we all could simply wish each other the best of enjoyment in the entertainment of our own personal choosing.
Sygmas, you really cant tell that everyone looks the same by playing the trial of the isle. Play more and you will see a big difference. The thing is when you are customizing your character it's up to YOU to tweak the several facial/body features. I think the reason bob and your friends characters looked the same is becauses maybe they didnt spend the extra time tweaking their characters. I assume they just used the first face they were given.
Comments
Kane makes a point though admirker. Eq1 really never seemed to top any HUGE numbers but that game is now 6 years old and is still going. I would also venture to say that whatever SOE spends on expansion packs, they will get back and more.
I think the amount of content availble in Eq2 will do it some good in the long run as well. I think Eq2 will eventually get a stream of players tired of what theyre playing, and might give Eq2 a chance. I agree that SOE probably thought they might get more players than they have. The advertising push they put on is proof. But, Sony is a company, meaning if they were losing money on Eq2 it would be shut down instantly. If Eq1 is still going then it's foolish to say Eq2 is some financial disaster considering it has a larger palyer base.
Hehe always fun to read admiker44 posts i love them.
He knows how big co operations think and EQ2 is a failure.
Forigve us o might CEO of M$
That really isn't true at all. In fact, it's wrong in every conceivable way.
Multi-billion dollar companies generally reach that status with many business units. Not every unit needs to be as profitable as the most profitable one. Just because Unit A makes more than Unit B doesn't mean Unit B is a failure. The issue is whether Unit B is reasonably profitable. And the simple fact is that the market in one area can become saturated, i.e., maybe it's not reasonably possible to increase sales in Unit A at a reasonable cost. According to your business theory, if you owned a restaurant and your profit margin was greater on a ham sandwich than a roast beef, you'd say well screw the roast beef ... let them all eat ham. Bzzzt, sorry, won't work.
EQ1 was an enormous success with a much slower start than EQ2. EQ games are designed to produce major cash flow over long periods (and they do just that) - not just to cash in on fast box sales followed up by "er, well, what now". Different business model. And maybe you should be damned glad that somebody wants to be in it for the long haul. The genre isn't going to be shaped or advanced by the companies looking to cash in quick.
In any event I don't see BMW shutting down because Chevy sells more cars, and the simple reality is that it costs a hell of a lot more to design a BMW than a Chevy.
It really baffles me why some of you want so badly to see SOE fail. If's a frickin company for god's sake. It employs people just like you know and just like who lives next door to you. They try and sometimes they suceed and sometimes they fail. If you like something, buy it, if you don't get over it and do something else. Don't turn thing into some childish obsession or pseudo religion. It's business ... of course they all want to make money ... all you whiners will be the first ones to do the same thing if/when the opportunity presents itself.
P.S. You know, now that I think about it, admirker, things were a lot more peaceful around here while you were playing WOW, which I guess was once viewed as your savior of gaming ... man that was a short lived messiah wasn't it
/rant 1.....At one point in time in it's hayday, EQ 1 toped 700K i belive, i know it has gone over atleast 600K, it was north america's most popular MMORPG, (i say north america,, cause in Asia, they got lineage, and that is still like 2mil subscribers i belive) but EQ 2 will grow, and there will be more subscribers, and as like EQ 1, peopel will flock to it over the next year or so, and the population will grow, and S.O.E. AND the stock should understand that it will take time, they launced with a nother very good game, and that there are a lot of people out there that will play both, or play WoW, then go to EQ2 after they "beat" WoW, or when Blizard has major problems, liek they are having with too many peopel the servers are getting overloaded and crashing, and that my friend is not good for business, you also gotta remember, EQ 2 has high system requirement, and people may also be tiding them selves over with WoW till they can upgrade then go to EQ 2, there are a lot of people who are doing that, i know quiet a few, anyways, have a nice day..../rant 0
Hmmmm ... Well thanks to the two people who bothered to read the original topic and comment.
I guess I'll give a while yet before I take another look.
I'm enjoying the ..... ** other game ** ..... at the moment. So I'll stick with that.
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Don't jump off the roof Dad
You'll make a hole in the yard
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webBear1000, without knowing exactly why you were disappointed in the game, it's hard to say whether it's worth your while to come back. If you provide more info we may be able to tell you things about the game.
As for the economic issue of EQ2, the person who posted the reason why EQ2 can be considered a market failure has very many valid points. However, another thing to consider is that not everything has to be profitable right from the get-go. When the PS2 and Xbox first launched, Sony and Microsoft were selling them at a loss, expecting the royalties for games to make up for it, and make up for it they did. Also, when something is not doing well economically and isn't generating nearly enough revenue, companies are motivated to improve the product in order to make it profitable. It doesn't make sense to spend R&D on something for months/years just to drop it because it hasn't churned out millions in profits within the first few months. Hence why I'm confused as to why Wish was cancelled...
In any case, my projections tell me that EQ2 will only get more popular as time goes by. Currently in the MMORPG market, the previous generation of MMORPGs such as EQ1 and DAOC are getting old and stale and players are looking for a new game to play. Many of them went over to World of Warcraft and some came over to EQ2. Currently there's nothing else that's enticing enough to offer to the majority of players.
However, with the current state of how Blizzard is handling WoW, it's doomed to collapse at one point due to the unsatisfactory way Blizzard is treating their customers. Unstable servers, unjust bans with no appeal, little high-end content, and canned responses to GM tickets and questions will eventually be enough to drive any player away, regardless of how good the game is. In a way Blizzard has paved their own downfall due to their immense popularity and huge fanbase.
Another issue to consider is that WoW is fun...but only for the short term. I really don't see anything that would hold players as they reach level 60. You can only PvP so much before getting bored, and you can only do so many raids before it becomes a grind. Coupled with the near useless crafting and ease of levelling, it's the kind of game that's fun in short bursts but becomes a bore once you've had enough. Typical Blizzard game, actually. For those of you who want to compare this to a FPS, the argument is invalid. There is a huge difference between moving your mouse and aiming a crosshair at someone's head versus clicking on a mob and hitting your hotkeys. One is fast-paced and requires quick reflexes, the other merely requires you to hit a couple of keys periodically.
As these WoW players realize Blizzard's incompetency at running a MMORPG and get tired of having little to do in the game, they'll eventually quit and start looking at other games. That's where EQ2 comes in, being the only other real choice for a truly MASSIVE multiplayer online game.
Sure, you can call me an EQ fanboy and a Blizzard hater, but I have no prior attachment to either companies or games. I never played EQ before or even a SOE game before EQ2 and was indifferent to them. I have played Starcraft and enjoyed it and played Warcraft 3 and didn't like it very much, and I bought World of Warcraft the first day it came out because I didn't feel like attending my lecture class and went to GameStop instead where I found out it was selling. Same with EQ2, I found out they were running the Trial of Isle and played it and instantly got hooked. I had my time with WoW, got bored when I reached level 23. Couldn't stand quest grinding and useless partying. I'm still playing EQ2 now and it's still fun for me, but I'm not sure how long that'll last. I don't see myself getting bored in the near future though, that's for sure.
Good stuff Ranma
About a month ago I went and picked up WoW. It was immense fun for awhile but then it kind of faded. Since then I've focused back on Eq2 and I'm having a blast.
To the OP, I would say give it another try. At higher levels (20 and above really) the players seem to be smarter and the groups are a lot more enjoyable. You will also notice quite a few more solo quests/content if thats what you're in to. Leveling is definitley slower than WoW but the amount of content is awesome.
admriker444,
There are a lot of flaws in your "lesson". You are thinking of SWG and EQ2 as two different companies, they aren't. If you look at it that way any company that turns a profit in less than 5 years is successful. Making a profit in less than a quarter is outstanding.
Not only that, anytime you can make a 6% profit on an investment in 4 months is friggin' unbelieveable. Property is said to be the best investment, and that only averages out to 3% a year. You really need to look at the numbers again before trying to "teach" anyone.
You are also only figuring cost of subsciption, totally forgeting about the pure profit of the advanced profiles, guild pages etc. Only extra cost is some space on a server they had to maintain anyway.
No, I'd have to say your analysis is way off the mark, without even considering the fact that in an interview NCSoft an MMO only needs to have about 150k subscribers to be successful.
Again it took SWG a year to get 295k subscribers.
To the person who wanted to talk about WoW's numbers: That is over 1mil boxes sold NOT active subscriptions, but again not really relevant.
OK, I was a bit off. EQ1 topped off at about 460k. Currently its at about 420k. EQ2, 4.5 months after release is at somewhere close to 350k. Dissapointing? Maybe so. But then, I dont really care about the business end of all this, as long as I'm enjoying the game, which I am. As long as they dont shut it down tomorrow, I'll be happy.
Please do not mis understand my bluntness for being rude but:
SOE has introduced "Adventure packs" and the "/pizza" command, they've locked every constructive post I've made on their boards (all 4 of them)....
I am utterly and absoutley convicnced that a> SOE is the worst gaming company ever
b> Their product is a cash grab and they will milk you and I for every penny they can with the ruse that they care about your gaming experience. They do not care about your gaming experinece or they would have released a gaming world in which your actions made sense. EQ II is half baked on so many levels.
c> Everquest II is still in beta, but gradually coming out.
d> EQ II will never be the game I had personally hoped for because my hopes for a new game left when Brad left.
I can not tell you how disappointed I am with this game, but SOE will have to put two blue moons in the sky and get rid of every egotistical "moderator" they have on their boards before I would even consider going back and even then I dont think I would.
If Wow isn't your cup of tea eihter I personally reccomend EVE Online, but thats just me. Its 2nd in player ratings for a reason....I have nothing bad to say about Wow, granted, its a great product, just not my thing.
SOE on the other hand, blew it hard core, they blew their crafting system at release, they blew my faith in them within 2 weeks of playing the game and....bah I could go on but you get the point.
IMO dont go back, go play Ultima online if you must but dont positively renforce SOE with their /pizza commands and pay -as - you - zone features.
ARGH!
Will people give the /pizza thing a friggin' rest already?
lol, just another one-post wonder
Thank god SOE doesn't listen to them.
Out of curiosity I've been asking people in the games (EQ1/2) if they ever read this board, and I haven't found anyone yet who's even heard of it. Thankfully, there's a totally different group in the games and on these boards.
lol, just another one-post wonder
Thank god SOE doesn't listen to them.
Out of curiosity I've been asking people in the games (EQ1/2) if they ever read this board, and I haven't found anyone yet who's even heard of it. Thankfully, there's a totally different group in the games and on these boards.
a serios MMORPG? Lol what a loser who takes MMO's seriosly i mean jesus christ dude get a life!
lol, just another one-post wonder
Thank god SOE doesn't listen to them.
Out of curiosity I've been asking people in the games (EQ1/2) if they ever read this board, and I haven't found anyone yet who's even heard of it. Thankfully, there's a totally different group in the games and on these boards.
a serios MMORPG? Lol what a loser who takes MMO's seriosly i mean jesus christ dude get a life!
Speaking of being a bit too serious....
lol, just another one-post wonder
Thank god SOE doesn't listen to them.
Out of curiosity I've been asking people in the games (EQ1/2) if they ever read this board, and I haven't found anyone yet who's even heard of it. Thankfully, there's a totally different group in the games and on these boards.
First off yes it was my first post...sorry that my first post offended you so much. 2nd I am not a causal gamer and nor did I start out to flame anyone. The orignal post was posed as a question so I gave an answer by example.
EQII lacks cohesion to its canon, there is no point as of yet in housing, when the game was launched all the player models looked the same (no unique graphics for differing items)....the crafting system is highly generic....make item x at lvl 10 make item x1 at lvl 20......
I'm no noob, I played Ultima Online religiously, EQI religiously and I eagerly awaited the launch of Everquest II. I followed the game and waited patiently to particiapte in the beta. I don't play WoW and I cancled my EQII account but I can tell you that the general perception of the gaming community is WoW is a superior product (the numbers speak for themselves).
The /pizza command is an example that hits the nail on the head for me for SOE and its "2nd generation" MMO. If you enjoy the game thats great (I don't recall insulting you and I'm slightly perplexed what you've bothered to waste your time doing so on me) but the OP asked a question on a board where, generally, people are encouraged to provide their opinion.
SOE has made it clearly obvious they have a time table for things like their adventure packs, and the /pizza command and the like. They 've made it apparant that this time table is more important then the quality of the game they intend to "value add" to. SOE has proven time and time again their customer service sucks (as an understatement) and their board community mod's are pompus and oddly power hungry.
I'm happy for those that enjoy the game....but IMO (read those letters, spell them out if you must darquenblade) EQII is still in beta, the game was released without a heart and is nothing more then classic SOE exp grind coupled with extra money grabs.
There are far better games out there, far , far better games. SOE had their chance and they blew it, while still trying to stick their hands in my pocket. They promised to kill the camp lol they used those actual words.
I realize now that Brad McQuad and CO. was everquest and SOE was riding the wave. It was Brad's vision that i connected with and its his vision I intend to check out. SOE couldn't make a MMO if they had exclusive rights to the internet, because they are more concerned with making value added components then they are making a good strong , core component.
Sorry for the digression, but people who flame piss me off.
Thanks.
Okay, for the sake of argument, I'll momentarily allow for the possibility, however slight (and I do consider it very slight), that your post is legitimate. Unfortunately, what we tend to see here is an endless stream of WOW fans (the most bizarre bunch of people I have ever run across in gaming), who make up new IDs, register them, and then put up 1-10 post for the sole purpose of attacking EQ2 (for some reason that completely escapes me - I guess their religious obligations to Blizzard). And then, when challenged, they all claim to be seasoned pros at MMORPGs. You happen to fit that profile perfectly ... you registered today, and then your first and only post was to attack EQ2, said post being merely a bash, lacking any detail which which would indicate that you have any idea what you're talking about. And you still don't know any detail. Sorry my man, you look completely fishy.
Now, you did say that you made four "constructive" posts on the SOE boards and all were locked. Hmmm, clue no. 2.
Third, you say you played for two weeks and you feel the game is still in beta. If there is one thing EQ2 isn't in, it's beta. You state that they've added adventure packs and the /pizza command, thereby demonstrating that you don't have the slightest clue what's been going on as they've poured massive amounts of content into the game constantlty for months.
As far as the "general perception of the gaming community", I couldn't give an undead rat's ass what the majority thinks. Unlike, apparently, you, I don't pick music, cars, food, or anything else in life based on what the majority thinks. The majority is probably well represented by the astute 13-year-old who threw in his, umm, "input" a couple posts up. Thus, my goal in gaming is to find out where they are so that I can maked damned sure to stay as far away from them as I can. Thank you, Blizzzard.
Sorry, your brief presumption os innocence has now expired. Guilty as charged. You came here to troll, and you got called on it. If you happen to hang around on this ID, which I doubt. it's only a matter of time before we see your true colors come out.
Sorry, people who troll piss me off
Yes, defending oneself in an agressive manner does tend to come across as a troll, for that I appolgize. I realized the implications of defending myself but nonetheless elected to do so. :}
I am not a pro-wow fanboi, I have my own reservations about that game, but didn't bother to express them. I'm also sorry for coming in and slamming SOE soooo hard. My emotions on the topic are very high, because I wanted so very much to for EQII to be something for me it isnt.
I plan on remaining a poster on these forums, so you can expect to see the odd post by me (although I've been a lurker for for some time and my remain so). I can appreciate the issue at hand, people creating accounts slamming EQII, I would be upset too if EQII is where I put my game time.
I guess what I'm saying is I only had the intention of expressing great disdain for EQ II and ended up pissing off those that don't agree. The only point I'd like to clarify is I played EQII longer then two weeks, I atually played for a couple of months.
My UO chars were 7x GM back in teh day and I had one lvl 65 pally with 100 odd AA and a lvl 55 enchanter in EQI. I consider myself a relatively experienced gamer.
So again, sorry for offending the EQII fans, I'm glad you are enjoying your game but I will not refrain from expressing the problems the game has or my general dislike of SOE's "i dont give a rat's ass attitude". I put my money where my feet are and walked from the "new" norrath. SOE created a big let down with EQII for many people, I happen to be one of them.
Best of luck to those that stay!
Rekindle, since you've been so respectful, I'll try and keep it in the same vein.
What, exactly, do you find to be at fault in the core gameplay of EQ2? Or is it a multitude of smaller things? I, personally, have ZERO attachment to EQ1, so not being faithful to the old lore is no problem for me. As a new EQ2 player, I'm curious what issues, if any, I may run into later. Thanks!
I only have one problem with EQ2. I don't crap on EQ2 for being what it is, I know what it is, its not flawed because it still harkens back to MUD design concepts, and is mechanically different than most progressive MMOs. Thats how EQ1 was and it wouldnt be EQ2 if it wasn't like this.
Now my only one problem -- everyone looks the same. I played trial of the isle, and there is such a lack of customizability its baffling. It's on SWGs engine and is less customizable. It PARTLY makes sense to me -- theyh ave soooo many more races than SWG, so it'd be a lot more work. Anywho, apart from that its still an 'armor' game so you still have people within the same classes who dress nearly if not identical at any given level so they can be most efficient. Besides that EQ2 does a lot of good things as far as I can tell and is the only Fantasy MMO I'd currently even ponder paying for. The lack of individualization ruins it for me as a Role Player.
I know a few of you guys will try to argue my point but what reinforces my opinion the most in this regard is the fact that there is a user on these forums here Bobjones something, his sig I believe has his character in it, his face. My friend who plays EQ2 looks EXACTLY I mean /EXACTLY/ the same. Down to a tee -- but they aren't the same person. Those are my two cents -- the other arguements are petty, zoning is no big deal.
I'll tell you one thing. I personally came over to mmorpg.com and registered for one thing.....
The sole purpose of attacking EQ2. I can't say I was promised anything by SOE, but it wasn't this pile of stink I paid 50 bucks for plus 2 months of fees.
I feel ripped off. EQ2, whilst in development, promised various qualities among the forums and faq's and such. It did not deliver; was nearly false advertisement.
I am more likely to feel that Blizzard deliviered more of what it promised. I covered both games considerably for years. I feel satisfied that Blizzard crafted the game they promised. EQ2 came out NOTHING like I expected.
With all the talk about servers being down at blizzard... Wasn't ALL of EQ2 down for over 2 days once??? Or did I dream this.....? I'm honestly not sure...
I won't be surprised when Blizzard starts doling out new matieral WITHOUT charging for it. It's a company that knows what their customers want, and how to keep them.
P.S. I'm starting to feel conversations like this are analogue to political right/left discussions
Dude you are totally clueless and obviously not being objective. How the hell can you compare EQ2 being down for 16hours of unscheduled downtime TOTAL, to the months that WoW has had unscheduled down time. Look on the tech forum right now, and you'll see two days worth of server outages and restarts.
You know the battle grounds that WoW is just now getting to? That was promised at realese. Now you name something EQ2 doesn't have that was promised.
EQ2 has added 8 new areas to explore, without anyone paying an extra dime, what has WoW added? Server queues, call that content if you want, but I call it dropping the ball.
Thank you loeslein ... a ray of light in the darkness. You have renewed (temporarily, at least =p) my faith in mankind. And I do not say that with the slightest bit of sarcasm.
It is just SO damned refreshing to see a man who comes in openly and says precisely what he means in a straightforward manner and without the pathetic subterfuge which is so typical here. With such honesty and candor, I cannot but respect your opinion, regardless of whether and how much I disagree with it. Thus I will not debate you concerning either game. Well, maybe later ...
But for now I salute you as a gentleman and scholar, and I truly hope your chosen game provides you the satisfaction that you seek from it. In the end that is all we all seek, isn't it. If only we all could simply wish each other the best of enjoyment in the entertainment of our own personal choosing.
/bow
Sadly (or not) I go on vacation for a week tomorrow.
But don't worry,
I've only been here for 5 days and my name is ALL over the boards.
We'll meet again,
oh yes....
we'll meet again....
Sygmas, you really cant tell that everyone looks the same by playing the trial of the isle. Play more and you will see a big difference. The thing is when you are customizing your character it's up to YOU to tweak the several facial/body features. I think the reason bob and your friends characters looked the same is becauses maybe they didnt spend the extra time tweaking their characters. I assume they just used the first face they were given.