Optional Permadeath

lifesbrink

Let's say instead of permadeath being integral to the game, there was instead the option for permadeath.  Star Wars Galaxies did this once, by allowing you to play powerful characters (Jedi), but unlike normal characters, if you died, that was it, your Jedi was dead.

So, what if we had a game that allowed some classes be permadeath, or perhaps even better, allowing you to make a character that had higher power capability, but when dead.....they stayed dead.

Another variant is having a hardcore server that allows permadeath with some perks of playing on it.

Thoughts?

GTwander

Wurm Online "champions" are, in essence, jedis as well. In exchange for asskickery, you have a limited amount of lives.

I wouldn't say it's the best implementation, but I guess it's an interesting tradeoff.

Cephus404

Not as described.  The only way I'd play a permadeath game at all is if I could entirely opt out of it and permadeath would have absolutely no effect on anything to do with my character.  If others want to play permadeath, fine by me.  I don't.

cnething

If leveling were fast and it was relatively easy to acquire gear, then maybe. It all depends on the specifics.

lifesbrink

Originally posted by Cephus404

Not as described.  The only way I'd play a permadeath game at all is if I could entirely opt out of it and permadeath would have absolutely no effect on anything to do with my character.  If others want to play permadeath, fine by me.  I don't.

That is just it, though, as described, you could opt out of it.  Hence the whole "optional" part of my title.

Cephus404

Originally posted by lifesbrink

That is just it, though, as described, you could opt out of it.  Hence the whole "optional" part of my title.

In the case you presented, the Jedi in SWG, you couldn't play a Jedi at all unless you played permadeath.  You couldn't opt out, you could just not play Jedi.  That's a different thing entirely.

Quirhid

Sounds iffy. First thing I'd try is to grief "the Jedi" with conventional characters. The power difference could potentially make the Jedi a game makers in PvP. Add to that open world PvP and the Jedi won't be a popular class in PvE. See in Dark Souls when people had to decide whether they would be marginally less powerful (and have smaller drop chance) or risk invasions (PvP) they chose no-invasions. And then PvPers complained how the wolves didn't get to hunt the sheep.

Ezekel

Permadeath is always optional for those who want it, just delete your character if they die.

After all Permadeath people are always talking about how much better a permadeath system is because it enforces consequences and makes you really learn the game then why don't they just have client side permadeath and not force it on those who don't want it?

Cephus404

Originally posted by Ezekel

Permadeath is always optional for those who want it, just delete your character if they die.

After all Permadeath people are always talking about how much better a permadeath system is because it enforces consequences and makes you really learn the game then why don't they just have client side permadeath and not force it on those who don't want it?

Because that's really what they want.  The same as the pro-groupers.  They don't want to be able to group, they want to force grouping on everyone around them so they have the illusion that it's popular and everyone likes it.

Permadeath is pointless, virtually nobody wants to play it, therefore they insist that everyone do it so they feel better about playing a pointless, idiotic playstyle.

lifesbrink

So does that make grouping a pointless, idiotic playstyle?  A lot of casuals don't want to be forced to group....are people who group just being stupid?

Boreil

An option built into the whole game, no not at all, a seperate server with permadeath, then sure.

ThaVamp

I really like the way WoD online is planning to implement it. What they do is as followed:

Normally you can't die. As a player you can reach a certain rank though, I believe it's sherif or prince, and then you can call out a blood hunt. If that's the case and you'll get killed in PvP, you'll be permadead. A prince will get named by the majority of the players though, so if a prince calls a blood hunt on someone and other people don't agree they can actually strip him from his rank.

Of course we'll still need to see how this'll work in game, but it sounds really nice to me. Both flavourwise and for the fact that it'll make PvP so much more exciting. On top of that, it will make sure that there will be way less greevers, because people don't want a blood hunt on their ass.

 

Scottgun

I am interested in trying out Salem, which will feature non-optional permadeath. Yeah, I know, I could play Haven & Hearth and get something similar, but even though I am no graphics-snob, I do have limits.

But if multi-server games offered an "Iron Man" server so to speak, I'm certain I would always run a character on it.

dorugu

yu can get perma death in any mmo tht lets yu delete and create new characters its so simple just logout thn delete the char wen he dies n bam yu have perma death if thts wat yu desire

nariusseldon

Sure.

Diablo 3 has optional PD. I am playing it now. Of course, i will never use the option.

Ashen_X

As far as I know every MMO has a permadeath option. Its called the delete character button.

Heinz130

leave permacrap for shoters

gladosrev2

As long as it's optional and not giving any benefits to the player, I can't see how anyone could say no. It would be equiwalent to the player being able to destroy all of his gold. Can he do that?  Yes. Is it optional? Yes. Can anyone bitch about it? Not really. :P It's not giving the player any benefits, and it's not being forced upon. Just another option. I wouldn't use it, but don't mind if it were available for some roleplaying reasons.

Also agree that every MMO has optional permadeath already anyway, the delete character option.

Axehilt

I play a game with optional permadeath done the right way: Diablo 3.

The masochists are kept safely segregated out of my game, and I from theirs.

Actually to be fair the other way to do permadeath right is to have an extremely shallow (less than 6 hours) progression system.

Cephus404

Originally posted by lifesbrink

So does that make grouping a pointless, idiotic playstyle?  A lot of casuals don't want to be forced to group....are people who group just being stupid?

No, they're making choices and they're entitled to make whatever choices they like that make the game fun for them.  They are not entitled to impose their choices on anyone else.

Betaguy

I just died this morning on my lvl 31 Wizzy in D3... was a sad morning...

kanezfan

The people that say perma death is good should prove their "hardcore-ness" and go ahead and delete the game and never play it again when they die. That, is PERMANENT death in a game. When you can just re-roll, of course it's a pain in the ass to have to do whatever it is you did before you died, but you're still playing the same game.

At the end of the day, I don't believe the perma-death proponents. I think after once or twice dying and losing all their shit, they'll realize it's not fun and they won't choose to do it again. But sure, put in the option for it, as long as it's not forced on everyone. No MMO with perma-death will ever be a success.

Scottgun

I'm not saying that permdeath is a good or bad thing, but after about the 500th post about how the MMO industry is stagnated and pumping out one boring cookie-cutter after another, pehaps we shouldn't be so quick to pull things off of the table in considering what we want different for a good MMORPG.

Ashen_X

Originally posted by Scottgun

I'm not saying that permdeath is a good or bad thing, but after about the 500th post about how the MMO industry is stagnated and pumping out one boring cookie-cutter after another, pehaps we shouldn't be so quick to pull things off of the table in considering what we want different for a good MMORPG.

Understood, but since optional permadeath already exists in every MMO on the market, nothing is being pulled off of the table.

Axehilt

Originally posted by Scottgun

I'm not saying that permdeath is a good or bad thing, but after about the 500th post about how the MMO industry is stagnated and pumping out one boring cookie-cutter after another, pehaps we shouldn't be so quick to pull things off of the table in considering what we want different for a good MMORPG.

The best path away from stagnation is to come up with new, good ideas.  Not to rehash ideas which have proven to be wildly unpopular for reasons which are now obvious.

lifesbrink

It is amusing that mainly the morons have commented on this thread.  Permadeath as a delete key?  That is stupid.  It is not a game rule, therefore, it makes no sense.  But coming from the mouths of people who have an IQ less than 100, this is not exactly surprising.