Just to play devils advocate, we did hold tobacco companies liable for making an addictive product. Many online video games are designed to keep the player engaged in the game. If we hold one industry (in the US) responsible for this practice, then shouldn't we hold others? I understand we are talking about a product you consume orally to one that you consume visually/auditorily/etc., but we Americans can never accept personal responsibillity anyways.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Too much of anything is not good for you. All things in moderation.
And while the most fault rests with him for only he could choose what he did with the hours of his day. It should also remind us how we can be an influence on others. Being friendly. Encouraging our online friends to keep things balanced. Encouraging them to stay healthy. Giving them a reason to want to live.
We can only control what we do. Lets choose our actions and our words wisely. Online and off.
Of course "Man dies of heartattack" is hardly news wrothy, and definately not going to get more hits on your website. Journalistic integrity is actually an oxymoron.
well i think video game addiction deserves more public awareness and exposure, like drinking, smoking, enjoying cocaine, etc. it's a social problem like any other.
I do not believe there is any such thing as "video game addiction." An addiction as defined by dictionary.com is "the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma."
I do not believe that any individual will suffer severe trauma if brought away from a video game. Narcotics create a physical need in your bodily system that you physically cannot live without.
There is a problem with people becoming obsessed with video games. but I believe that you cannot say video games have the same pull physically as lets say, cigarettes.
Actually you are 100% wrong even as far back as the 80's game designers admitted studies were conducted to find the right combo of lights and sounds to produce an endorphin release in players. Since then tons of scientific studies have been conducted and have determined video games CAN be just as addictive as opiates to many gamers. Video game addiction and withdrawl can be a very seious condition to many people, and is recently recognized by support groups like AA. Video game addiction has even successfully been argued as a disability to Social Security.
And here I am with a failing nervious system, and 3/4 of my body barely working properly, with a twitch that's basically a never ending hiccup, barely able to walk anymore, fighting social security for disablity after 20 years of working and paying social security tax and all I had to do was tell them I'm addicted to video games.
Oh wait, social security doesn't recognize addiction as a disablity. That's not to say that some people haven't been able to defraud social security. As someone in california tried to do with the aid of a clinic psycologist who claimed that even he became addicted to video games while researching if they were addictive. However, from what I understand, he was denied.
And it's not on the basis of an addiction but on the idea that that addiction caused irreversable health problems that prevented the individual from working. In otherwords, it was a bunch of BS.
Video games are found to release dopamines by the way. A feel good chemical that the brain releases to create, well, feel good feelings. Oddly enough, some people will get the same reaction while RUNNING. Holy crap! Running is addictive!!
Everything you do has the chance to be addictive when you live in a society that has an addiction to finding a need to find an excuse for everything. It's not even remotely close to the same thing as opiates.
he died from his illness and his own choise to not exercise despite his ilness,
nothing to do with diablo 3 or any gaming in general
well, technically it very much does. sitting for prolonged periods of time causes blood stasis. not sleeping causes increased cortisol levels and sympathetic activity, which increase blood pressure. assuming he did not drink enough, or drank Redbull/caffeine, this caused dehydration and further sympathetic firing. so we're talking increased blood viscosity/clotting, increased work on the heart, increased blood pressure - the perfect recipe for a heart attack, even in semi-healthy individuals. most likely, the caffeine and blood stasis did him in the most.
while D3 didnt physically reach out and clot his blood, D3 was the drug that caused him to sit there and die.
I guess all those fat people can sue mcdonalds now for making them fat.
He's a grown ass man and made the choice to sit there.
Just like how drug users do it themselfs, how alcohol users do it themselfs.. gaming is adicting, and it can cause death in extreme cases.
-I- am adicted to online interaction and gaming, -I- had a hearth infarct on 13 february this year, at that time I already was seeking help and still am in the long slow process of it, however I do sport these days and game far far less then I used to.
point is, gaming can be dangerus and like every type of substance or behavior we use to supress reallive it can get out of controll were the game(s) dictate youre live and you as a person have no choise in the matter anymore, you need someone to drag youre ass away from the game in order to break the circle (or end up in hospital like i had)
Untill developers start adding more time controll limets these cases will come up from time to time and these are just the known media covered cases. as whit mine ,there are far far more people adicted to gaming and online interaction then we dare to admit.
so for youre own sake, stop pretending its the peoples own faulth and admit that these kind of uncontrollable adictions that causes deaths exisist , it might save youre live one day since admiting that a problem might exsiste is the first step to solving it.
ps: i was a very very healthy 34 year old, health issue's are not the cause of these common hearth attacks/infarts.
basicly anyone who sits longer then 4 hours whitout moving gets a dice roll ,do this often and you get two dice rolls , if you roll a 6 youre dead.. tempt fate or get of the chair for 15 min.. that is a choice..when not adicted yet
Its more of a lazy, irresponsible, cop out IMO rather than an addiction. "Sorry teach ...didn't do my homework, Im addicted to sitting around watching tv and doing nothing all day"
isnt that part of any adiction? sorry, bin drinking all day, or sorry I was seeing pink pony's ,this batch of coke was totaly zoning me out..
all adictions have the same "problems" they are caused in diferent ways but in the end all lead to the same, social rejection (both ways) financial problems , and in the extreme cases , death.
becomming "lazy" is part of the psygical change in a adicted person, often its not that they dont want to do someting,butt hey simply cant move themself, if they had someone to kick their ass saying that they should move then they would move, but since they have no social controll in most cases it can develop into deeper problems.
the base of a adiction is that a person looses all controll over his own action, he or she does not like to do it but is unable to stop him/herself from doing it.
so "just lazy" does not realy cut it, its the same as someone can have a burnout, they dont like it, they want to be happy and productive..but they cant..they simply cant. and its up to sociaty to push those folks back to a happy productive life to help them get out of the back hole.
Actually video games can be addictive if they are the only way in which the subject sublimates strong feelings of aggressivenes for examle (not limited to these only tho). Depending on how strong these emotions are and how much they are not accepted by the ego, it can lead to different states of addiction. There's probably more at work beside sublimation and it depends a lot on what is being sublimated.
Not to change the subject, but thought I put out a warning. My anti-virus program, Avast, just said it blocked a trojan horse when entering the site the OP posted.
he died from his illness and his own choise to not exercise despite his ilness,
nothing to do with diablo 3 or any gaming in general
well, technically it very much does. sitting for prolonged periods of time causes blood stasis. not sleeping causes increased cortisol levels and sympathetic activity, which increase blood pressure. assuming he did not drink enough, or drank Redbull/caffeine, this caused dehydration and further sympathetic firing. so we're talking increased blood viscosity/clotting, increased work on the heart, increased blood pressure - the perfect recipe for a heart attack, even in semi-healthy individuals. most likely, the caffeine and blood stasis did him in the most.
while D3 didnt physically reach out and clot his blood, D3 was the drug that caused him to sit there and die.
I guess all those fat people can sue mcdonalds now for making them fat.
He's a grown ass man and made the choice to sit there.
Just like how drug users do it themselfs, how alcohol users do it themselfs.. gaming is adicting, and it can cause death in extreme cases.
-I- am adicted to online interaction and gaming, -I- had a hearth infarct on 13 february this year, at that time I already was seeking help and still am in the long slow process of it, however I do sport these days and game far far less then I used to.
point is, gaming can be dangerus and like every type of substance or behavior we use to supress reallive it can get out of controll were the game(s) dictate youre live and you as a person have no choise in the matter anymore, you need someone to drag youre ass away from the game in order to break the circle (or end up in hospital like i had)
Untill developers start adding more time controll limets these cases will come up from time to time and these are just the known media covered cases. as whit mine ,there are far far more people adicted to gaming and online interaction then we dare to admit.
so for youre own sake, stop pretending its the peoples own faulth and admit that these kind of uncontrollable adictions that causes deaths exisist , it might save youre live one day since admiting that a problem might exsiste is the first step to solving it.
ps: i was a very very healthy 34 year old, health issue's are not the cause of these common hearth attacks/infarts.
basicly anyone who sits longer then 4 hours whitout moving gets a dice roll ,do this often and you get two dice rolls , if you roll a 6 youre dead.. tempt fate or get of the chair for 15 min.. that is a choice..when not adicted yet
Its more of a lazy, irresponsible, cop out IMO rather than an addiction. "Sorry teach ...didn't do my homework, Im addicted to sitting around watching tv and doing nothing all day"
isnt that part of any adiction? sorry, bin drinking all day, or sorry I was seeing pink pony's ,this batch of coke was totaly zoning me out..
all adictions have the same "problems" they are caused in diferent ways but in the end all lead to the same, social rejection (both ways) financial problems , and in the extreme cases , death.
becomming "lazy" is part of the psygical change in a adicted person, often its not that they dont want to do someting,butt hey simply cant move themself, if they had someone to kick their ass saying that they should move then they would move, but since they have no social controll in most cases it can develop into deeper problems.
the base of a adiction is that a person looses all controll over his own action, he or she does not like to do it but is unable to stop him/herself from doing it.
so "just lazy" does not realy cut it, its the same as someone can have a burnout, they dont like it, they want to be happy and productive..but they cant..they simply cant. and its up to sociaty to push those folks back to a happy productive life to help them get out of the back hole.
Brings to mind the lead singer of Alice in Chains. Guy was neither lazy, nor ever broke, although he did eventually die.
Or a good friend who developed a 250 dollar a day heroin addiction. Dude was as far from lazy as you can get. No one that is lazy is getting together 250 dollars a day to buy heroin.
Addicts are rarely lazy. You're confusing the effects of some drugs with addiction. Coke is not keeping anyone sitting around doing nothing all day for god sakes. Ever met a frigging meth adict? They're not lazy people!
Perhaps some of you should get some real world, first hand impression of addiction before you start telling people what it is? Because wow, some of you are WAY off.
he died from his illness and his own choise to not exercise despite his ilness,
nothing to do with diablo 3 or any gaming in general
well, technically it very much does. sitting for prolonged periods of time causes blood stasis. not sleeping causes increased cortisol levels and sympathetic activity, which increase blood pressure. assuming he did not drink enough, or drank Redbull/caffeine, this caused dehydration and further sympathetic firing. so we're talking increased blood viscosity/clotting, increased work on the heart, increased blood pressure - the perfect recipe for a heart attack, even in semi-healthy individuals. most likely, the caffeine and blood stasis did him in the most.
while D3 didnt physically reach out and clot his blood, D3 was the drug that caused him to sit there and die.
I guess all those fat people can sue mcdonalds now for making them fat.
He's a grown ass man and made the choice to sit there.
he died from his illness and his own choise to not exercise despite his ilness,
nothing to do with diablo 3 or any gaming in general
well, technically it very much does. sitting for prolonged periods of time causes blood stasis. not sleeping causes increased cortisol levels and sympathetic activity, which increase blood pressure. assuming he did not drink enough, or drank Redbull/caffeine, this caused dehydration and further sympathetic firing. so we're talking increased blood viscosity/clotting, increased work on the heart, increased blood pressure - the perfect recipe for a heart attack, even in semi-healthy individuals. most likely, the caffeine and blood stasis did him in the most.
while D3 didnt physically reach out and clot his blood, D3 was the drug that caused him to sit there and die.
Exactly.
No one is saying that the game forced him to endulge in the behaviours that killed him. However, it should serve as a strong cautionary tale to those who become so obssessed with games like this that they would even consider such a marathon session that you could indeed die because of your obsession with a video game.
No game is worth sitting in one place, playing for 12/24/48/72 hours straight with out sleep, food, proper hydration and regular walking breaks to keep your circulation flowing!
I don't know anyone who would say they would die a happy man if they could just spend the last 72 hours straight of their life playing x,y or z video game.
Of course "Man dies of heartattack" is hardly news wrothy, and definately not going to get more hits on your website. Journalistic integrity is actually an oxymoron.
well i think video game addiction deserves more public awareness and exposure, like drinking, smoking, enjoying cocaine, etc. it's a social problem like any other.
I do not believe there is any such thing as "video game addiction." An addiction as defined by dictionary.com is "the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma."
I do not believe that any individual will suffer severe trauma if brought away from a video game. Narcotics create a physical need in your bodily system that you physically cannot live without.
There is a problem with people becoming obsessed with video games. but I believe that you cannot say video games have the same pull physically as lets say, cigarettes.
Actually you are 100% wrong even as far back as the 80's game designers admitted studies were conducted to find the right combo of lights and sounds to produce an endorphin release in players. Since then tons of scientific studies have been conducted and have determined video games CAN be just as addictive as opiates to many gamers. Video game addiction and withdrawl can be a very seious condition to many people, and is recently recognized by support groups like AA. Video game addiction has even successfully been argued as a disability to Social Security.
Regardless of whether video gaming truly addictive or not (the validity is still argued within the psychiatric community), people still make choices. People can choose to begin using drugs or alcohol, and they can also choose to seek help for their addiction. People need to quit playing victim and take responsibility for their choices.
Man, I am enjoying the game well enough, but it is not nearly good enough to play without sleeping, eating, or the pile of other things to do...work included.
I admit to doing a good 18 hour bender now and then back in the early EQ1 days, but that was another life then.
The thing is, people die like this all the time. Sitting for extended periods--even the length of a trans Atlantic flight--can kill you. Sleeplessness just adds to it.
I am so sick of games, media in general (music, movies etc) getting blamed for deaths like this.
We get at least one of these erports everytime a new MMO or big online game comes out. Apart from lack of sleep and lack of excersise, was he downing coffee, red bull, sweets etc I wonder?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Of course "Man dies of heartattack" is hardly news wrothy, and definately not going to get more hits on your website. Journalistic integrity is actually an oxymoron.
well i think video game addiction deserves more public awareness and exposure, like drinking, smoking, enjoying cocaine, etc. it's a social problem like any other.
I do not believe there is any such thing as "video game addiction." An addiction as defined by dictionary.com is "the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma."
I do not believe that any individual will suffer severe trauma if brought away from a video game. Narcotics create a physical need in your bodily system that you physically cannot live without.
There is a problem with people becoming obsessed with video games. but I believe that you cannot say video games have the same pull physically as lets say, cigarettes.
Actually you are 100% wrong even as far back as the 80's game designers admitted studies were conducted to find the right combo of lights and sounds to produce an endorphin release in players. Since then tons of scientific studies have been conducted and have determined video games CAN be just as addictive as opiates to many gamers. Video game addiction and withdrawl can be a very seious condition to many people, and is recently recognized by support groups like AA. Video game addiction has even successfully been argued as a disability to Social Security.
Regardless of whether video gaming truly addictive or not (the validity is still argued within the psychiatric community), people still make choices. People can choose to begin using drugs or alcohol, and they can also choose to seek help for their addiction. People need to quit playing victim and take responsibility for their choices.
Some doctor figures out that, like everything else you'll do in your life that brings you a sense of enjoyment, the brain releases small level of dopamine (that's why enjoyable things are enjoyable after all), and determined that that is why they're adictive.
Afterall, dopamine causes the exact same effect as taking speed, and we know that many versions of speed are addictive. So we can obviously draw a correlation between the effects of speed and dopamine and say that video games are addictive because of the release of dopamine.
So knowing that we can then say that:
Running is addictive for some people
cooking is adictive for some people
Drawing is addictive for some people
gardening is addictive for some people
swimming is addictive for some people
rock climbing is addictive for some people
bunjee jumping is addictive for some people
skydiving is addictive for some people
sex is addictive for some people
knitting is addictive for some people
movies are addictive for some people
masticism is addictive for some people
sports are addictive for some people
*laugh* gambling *laugh* is addictive for some people rflmfao
eating is an addiction
life is addictive!!
Or we can use common sense and realize that real addiction happens when outside chemicals cause a physcial depence, and not a naturally occuring biological function of the brain that's required in order to keep us from sitting in one spot and dying before we ever learn to walk, becaues without it we wouldn't have any motivation to do anything.
As a person who at 32 had two heart attacks, I can guarantee this had nothing to do with D3 or game addiction and everything to do with the persons own body. It's rare for heart disease to hit at such a young age but it happens, I know this for a fact. You don't have to be fat ( I weigh 140), extremely unhealthy in your lifestyle (vegetarian for 15 years), and you may get plenty of excercise (I did as an example). This stuff can be hereditary, I would bet some form of heart disease runs in his family as it does mine.
Just a point of note, I've been told multiple times since (by cardioligists) that many have heart attacks and don't even know, it's these folks who actually tend to have fatal ones, as they've had them before yet didn't know the symptoms, in turn they never got looked at and had severe damage to their heart already. Those sysmptoms are throbbing Shoulder/arm pains, persistent heartburn, shortness of breath followed by discomfort and tightness in your chest. It's not always a severe pain that makes you keel over in agony as many expect.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Too much of anything is not good for you. All things in moderation.
And while the most fault rests with him for only he could choose what he did with the hours of his day. It should also remind us how we can be an influence on others. Being friendly. Encouraging our online friends to keep things balanced. Encouraging them to stay healthy. Giving them a reason to want to live.
We can only control what we do. Lets choose our actions and our words wisely. Online and off.
All die, so die well.
who's 'we'. I certainly didn't hold them accountable. If I have any objection to smoking it's in it's second-hand smoke.
and LOL at the people denying addiction exists or is real. get educated please, look at the neuroscience of it if you don't believe the psychology.
That's why only athletes should allowed to play video games.
We dont know that yet. He's playing it right now
Think I'll wait for Torchlight 2.
And here I am with a failing nervious system, and 3/4 of my body barely working properly, with a twitch that's basically a never ending hiccup, barely able to walk anymore, fighting social security for disablity after 20 years of working and paying social security tax and all I had to do was tell them I'm addicted to video games.
Oh wait, social security doesn't recognize addiction as a disablity. That's not to say that some people haven't been able to defraud social security. As someone in california tried to do with the aid of a clinic psycologist who claimed that even he became addicted to video games while researching if they were addictive. However, from what I understand, he was denied.
And it's not on the basis of an addiction but on the idea that that addiction caused irreversable health problems that prevented the individual from working. In otherwords, it was a bunch of BS.
Video games are found to release dopamines by the way. A feel good chemical that the brain releases to create, well, feel good feelings. Oddly enough, some people will get the same reaction while RUNNING. Holy crap! Running is addictive!!
Everything you do has the chance to be addictive when you live in a society that has an addiction to finding a need to find an excuse for everything. It's not even remotely close to the same thing as opiates.
isnt that part of any adiction? sorry, bin drinking all day, or sorry I was seeing pink pony's ,this batch of coke was totaly zoning me out..
all adictions have the same "problems" they are caused in diferent ways but in the end all lead to the same, social rejection (both ways) financial problems , and in the extreme cases , death.
becomming "lazy" is part of the psygical change in a adicted person, often its not that they dont want to do someting,butt hey simply cant move themself, if they had someone to kick their ass saying that they should move then they would move, but since they have no social controll in most cases it can develop into deeper problems.
the base of a adiction is that a person looses all controll over his own action, he or she does not like to do it but is unable to stop him/herself from doing it.
so "just lazy" does not realy cut it, its the same as someone can have a burnout, they dont like it, they want to be happy and productive..but they cant..they simply cant. and its up to sociaty to push those folks back to a happy productive life to help them get out of the back hole.
Actually video games can be addictive if they are the only way in which the subject sublimates strong feelings of aggressivenes for examle (not limited to these only tho). Depending on how strong these emotions are and how much they are not accepted by the ego, it can lead to different states of addiction. There's probably more at work beside sublimation and it depends a lot on what is being sublimated.
The guy this thread is about gave a whole new meaning to hardcore mode.*tips hat* Rim shot.
Not to change the subject, but thought I put out a warning. My anti-virus program, Avast, just said it blocked a trojan horse when entering the site the OP posted.
Brings to mind the lead singer of Alice in Chains. Guy was neither lazy, nor ever broke, although he did eventually die.
Or a good friend who developed a 250 dollar a day heroin addiction. Dude was as far from lazy as you can get. No one that is lazy is getting together 250 dollars a day to buy heroin.
Addicts are rarely lazy. You're confusing the effects of some drugs with addiction. Coke is not keeping anyone sitting around doing nothing all day for god sakes. Ever met a frigging meth adict? They're not lazy people!
Perhaps some of you should get some real world, first hand impression of addiction before you start telling people what it is? Because wow, some of you are WAY off.
F**k**g tuche !
Exactly.
No one is saying that the game forced him to endulge in the behaviours that killed him. However, it should serve as a strong cautionary tale to those who become so obssessed with games like this that they would even consider such a marathon session that you could indeed die because of your obsession with a video game.
No game is worth sitting in one place, playing for 12/24/48/72 hours straight with out sleep, food, proper hydration and regular walking breaks to keep your circulation flowing!
I don't know anyone who would say they would die a happy man if they could just spend the last 72 hours straight of their life playing x,y or z video game.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Regardless of whether video gaming truly addictive or not (the validity is still argued within the psychiatric community), people still make choices. People can choose to begin using drugs or alcohol, and they can also choose to seek help for their addiction. People need to quit playing victim and take responsibility for their choices.
Man, I am enjoying the game well enough, but it is not nearly good enough to play without sleeping, eating, or the pile of other things to do...work included.
I admit to doing a good 18 hour bender now and then back in the early EQ1 days, but that was another life then.
The thing is, people die like this all the time. Sitting for extended periods--even the length of a trans Atlantic flight--can kill you. Sleeplessness just adds to it.
I am so sick of games, media in general (music, movies etc) getting blamed for deaths like this.
Sad to see any memeber of or community pass away.
guys ..even drinking to much water can harm you ..i think it's the person's fault and not the game .As ancient greeks said " all in good measure "
We get at least one of these erports everytime a new MMO or big online game comes out. Apart from lack of sleep and lack of excersise, was he downing coffee, red bull, sweets etc I wonder?
All things in moderation.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
My heart goes out to you if you think this is a great way to die. How sad and lonely his life must have been.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Some doctor figures out that, like everything else you'll do in your life that brings you a sense of enjoyment, the brain releases small level of dopamine (that's why enjoyable things are enjoyable after all), and determined that that is why they're adictive.
Afterall, dopamine causes the exact same effect as taking speed, and we know that many versions of speed are addictive. So we can obviously draw a correlation between the effects of speed and dopamine and say that video games are addictive because of the release of dopamine.
So knowing that we can then say that:
Running is addictive for some people
cooking is adictive for some people
Drawing is addictive for some people
gardening is addictive for some people
swimming is addictive for some people
rock climbing is addictive for some people
bunjee jumping is addictive for some people
skydiving is addictive for some people
sex is addictive for some people
knitting is addictive for some people
movies are addictive for some people
masticism is addictive for some people
sports are addictive for some people
*laugh* gambling *laugh* is addictive for some people rflmfao
eating is an addiction
life is addictive!!
Or we can use common sense and realize that real addiction happens when outside chemicals cause a physcial depence, and not a naturally occuring biological function of the brain that's required in order to keep us from sitting in one spot and dying before we ever learn to walk, becaues without it we wouldn't have any motivation to do anything.
Bullshit.
As a person who at 32 had two heart attacks, I can guarantee this had nothing to do with D3 or game addiction and everything to do with the persons own body. It's rare for heart disease to hit at such a young age but it happens, I know this for a fact. You don't have to be fat ( I weigh 140), extremely unhealthy in your lifestyle (vegetarian for 15 years), and you may get plenty of excercise (I did as an example). This stuff can be hereditary, I would bet some form of heart disease runs in his family as it does mine.
Just a point of note, I've been told multiple times since (by cardioligists) that many have heart attacks and don't even know, it's these folks who actually tend to have fatal ones, as they've had them before yet didn't know the symptoms, in turn they never got looked at and had severe damage to their heart already. Those sysmptoms are throbbing Shoulder/arm pains, persistent heartburn, shortness of breath followed by discomfort and tightness in your chest. It's not always a severe pain that makes you keel over in agony as many expect.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson