Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Can SWTOR be saved?
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
ah yes...gotta love these troll topics
You know I actually have a few issues with that report/Scorpienne's calculations:
For one it's all averaged out. That bit about the callculations "underestimates the peak population and overestimates the off-peak population." is actually underplaying things.
You have to remember that all servers are regional (NA East, NA West, APAC, EU) and are further servicing potentially different timezones.
Which becomes important for a very simple reason: you can't expect a server to run a strong population 24/7 if it's regional!
Most servers will probably have something of only 6 hrs of peak time on a normal working day compared to 18 hrs of off-peak time (and even dead time: playing much at 4am?) which means that even if you had a huge population during peak, by averaging things out the sheer "mass" of "low-time" will leave you with a stunningly small number.
So, the better number to calculate would be how many players there actually are during peak hours.
Which is fairly complicated due to the different time zones: if you were to take an NA East server and set 6pm - midnight as peak, you may suddenly find yourself with a sudden boom at 7pm EDT due to now CDT getting in as well while 11pm CDT may see a sudden drop as EDT just hit midnight and hopped off.
Another important point is the period these readings were taken in: it just happened to be the time when there were the GW2 BWE, the TSW BWE, maybe even the end of the D3 beta, definitely of course the release of D3.
Some poster here tried to lay claim to how dead SWTOR is by pointing at the Xfire numbers for the last month.
Which clearly show a number of extreme drops in hrs played over the period.
Except funnily they can be matched with similar drops in other MMOs around the same dates.
And even further: these dates can be confirmed to be event dates like GW2 BWE and TSW BWE.
Scorpienne not only fails to point these factors out for her calculations, she actually doesn't specify how she is handling exceptions: server downtime will of course see a population of 0 but whether she asigns these hours a zero value i.e. ignores them or takes them into the averaging with a value of 0 population is unknown (obviously the first would be the more sensible choice but on the other hand potentially the less scientific correct one...)
And once you've opened that can of worms the whole thing becomes more and more complex: weekends may obviously fall outside the 6/18 hrs structure as do public holidays, major non-MMO related events may cause shifts, etc.
Now, what's even worse is that the data is just based on how many players are logged in.
It doesn't give you details as to what these gamers are doing (PvE, PvP, AFK, etc) and which faction they belong to.
Which rather obvious is also important if you actually want to paint a clear picture of what is going on on a server: It's a bit like saying Scotland has a large population by basing your calculations on the population of Glasgow.
Having a peaktime server population of 3000 would help you little if for example 80% of these are playing PvP only while you on the other hand are looking for PvE grouping: it would still be a "ghost town".
The same would be true if you as a Rep were looking for grouping for either PvE or PvP but 80% of the 3000 people on the server are Imps.
So yeah, these numbers are potentially more dangerous as they may be scientifically correct but aren't presented in the right context...
Really? So a game can only be "good" or "bad"?
Why cant a game be great, good, average or bad? Or even other things?
Why cant a person think a game isnt worth paying to play, but is worth playing if it isnt play?
Just because YOU are limited to dealing in black and white, it doesnt mean the rest of us are.
SWTOR has a great story and thus is a good ride...until you get bored of doing the same things or when you hit endgame. Then the game sucks. So yeah, if its FREE you can log in any time and continue a great story...like a single player game which is about what SWTOR is anyway...then log off when you get bored.
Anyone that pays to do that isnt very smart. Stop supporting bad games with monthly payments that tell other companies that all they have to do is push a game out and make a profit no matter how bad it is.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Well, quite a time ago (way before release) i wrote on SWTOR forums that they should experiment with payment options.
One model i proposed was to have 2 options:
1. Just buy the box. You can play through class stories/generic quests as single player, other players would be "disabled" (theres an option for that in DCUO or some such) and you would be disabled for other players, and you have no access to group content. So, in other words, single player game.
2. Buy the box+sub=can group with other players, have access to all multiplayer content available - in other words - classic MMO
I was right there with you...I was thinking it should have been B2P with content updates being purchasable. The game is too much like a single player game with forced online play....the MMO gameplay just isnt there to justify a sub.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
No it can't.
Make it a single player game.
Repackage it as KotoR 3.
Sell it and release 40 crappy DLCs for $10 each.
Well, it was written in context of "how many people woul pay sub for WoW-like MMO with endgame consisting of raiding once a week for uber gear/dailies/farming heroics opposed to how many play solo anyway in such model".
You can guess that fanbois outrage was strong with this one.
It's a big fat failure of epic proportions and you don't need any metrics to see it. A game that cost 100-150 million to develop, backed by the perhaps single biggest juggernaut franchaise in pop culture. The fact that after a mere five months server merges are in the cards says it all.
B2P with one profession, sell additional professions, added content and fluff.
I think it would of sold a LOT more copies and suffered far less scrutiny but with the gargantuan production cost would it ever be worth the cost?
Yeah but someone kind of didnt notice that WoW did actually have more than just a raid or two to do a week. Even though im not a big fan of WoW they did at least give all aspects of MMO gameplay to take part in if you wanted it...the only thing WoW was missing was player generated content. SWTOR on the other hand is missing almost everything.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
For all the Gloom and Doomers on this thread.
As much hate as you have for SWToR, I doubt this game is just going to die within the year or 2 (even as much as you want it to).
SOE introduced NGE to SWG and thousands upon thousands left that game, however it manage to stick around. We had 8 years of SWG despite all the turmoil went through that game and you think SWToR is going to die in 2? Sorry I don't think so.
I at this point have my own personal issues with the game, but I still wish it the best. I wish SWToR was more sandbox since I am a Pre CU Veteran, but I guess we all can't get what we wish for.
On another note..
GW2 is going to put the nail in the coffin for SWToR? C'mon people.. Get real, seroiusly..
EA Bioware are incapable of implementing good management and systems to save their game. They will charge way too much in the cash shop and bodge it.
Besides why on earth do you think they would after a terrible implementation of an okay launch. They failed to patch regularly and then continually tried to bamboozle us with spin.
Can it start gaining subs and become a success going forward? I say no.
I think the model is flawed, the personal story/lobby style does not mesh well with MMO imo. I think this is a flaw that cannot be overcome, as it would require a big game change, and all their updates are just tacking on more of the same that I do not think works or adds to player replayability and longevity.
People bring up how long SWG was around, but unless I missed it, which is possible, SWG was not giving away free months and such anywhere near as quick as TOR is......TOR may not go away, but it may have to go FTP to survive...Just not sure exactly how that would make it worse/better...
Sure if they did a cash shop the right way...
Runes of Magic was earning the company near 30 million a year in profits and it was a free game. Being B2P at $49 for regular edition...1 million copies sold = 49+ mil...2 million sold would top 100mil just from game sales. Very easy to get into the black with that basically making cash shop sales profit.
A proper cash shop would allow them to fill in some of what the game is missing. The pure RPers which were abandonded by this game would have gotten what they wanted...vanitey items and RPing costumes. Better looking mounts could be sold...just costumes and mounts alone sell like MAD in Asia and Europe. Start throwing in better looking armor (no stats just open mod slots), pets...
and then start adding things to address other community issues like...mission listings. So many crafters pissed at how of the 5 missions listed in whatever skill, none of them are for the items they are looking for (like metal compounds for example)...so add into the shop the ability to unlock a 6th mission slot...and a 7th. Add an unlock for sale for having another companion that can go on missions earlier.
Nothing "pay 2 win" yet something players are asking for.
Anyway, the game isnt worth a sub and the updates that have come and are coming is showing that like all EA MMORPGs, they are not putting enough of the money coming in from the game back into further developing it...6 months into release and the game has gotten next to nothing.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
The updates that we are suposed to get in 1.3 are mostly legacy updates. That is not playable content.
The server transfers/merges is needed, but it is all too late folks are jumping ship, going back to what they were playing , and or quitting the mmo trend all together.
The question now should be, should this swtor be saved or canceled.
Yeah, you gotta remember though, some say they have to pay 30% off the top to Lucas Arts, so that makes something that is struggling, even harder to get into the black...As they do not make 100% of box sales and such as it is....Then cut Lucas their share on top of it.
Have to take into account that we're defining "dead" in gamer language and gamers can speak in different tongues. Some say dead is pulling the plug and some say dead is under 500k subs, and some say dead is going F2P, and some say other things.
I personally believe TOR will be running as long as it's making any inkling of profit but since it is no where near living up to it's potential and I have serious doubts it ever will, it is already "dead". That's just me.
Your a Pre-CU guy so does that mean SWG died to you when they did the CU and NGE? I actually joined that game after the NGE and played all the way till the credits rolled then I had no choice but say it's dead. It wasn't to me until that happen though.
Moral of the story is what does dead mean to you, me or the next guy?
Can this game be saved? Sure, they don't even need saving, they just need to outlive WoW which is not entirely impossible considering Blizzard's change of focus. They may have missed the chance to be great but it's still too big to fail.
I know LA gets a cut, I dont recall ever seeing something pointing to 30%, I cant see them getting that much without bringing some of their own money into the production...which, if that is the case...brings the effect on getting back into the black right back down to where I expected.
Either way, I do believe they are back in the black already. didnt the thing sell over 2 million copies? Then there is a good 4-5 months worth of 1+ million subs at $15. so there is yet another 50+ million on top of the over 100 mil from sales. EA book keeping shows the game cost just over 90 mil to make, even with 30% going to LA its in the black now.
Anyway, yeah it is struggling...and I actually hope it continues. The company and the fanboys dont deserve it lasting for what they did to the game. No MMO should be made for such a small niche in this day and age.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I don't see WoW as the problem, I see it is more the mesh of styles, that leave it to be more of a single player/lobby type game. I think I got my money out of it, but it didn't seem like a mmo worth a sub to me...So if it went f2p, and had a good money making model and some content to back it up, they could get new people playing... Most would probably still only last 1-3 months, but being f2p they would probably keep a player base in rotation for a while.
I just do not know if it would be enough to get into the black with the LA fees, and other things...Despite all the box sales and such, they said they could be profitable with 500k subs, but I am sure that is over a long period of time..If it goes f2p, then they need to bring a lot of cash in, to replace 500k subs...and that is to be 'profitable'.
The 30% is just me repeating something that 'someone' thought was a reliable report on the amount....I can not say it is accurate.... I do not know if they had a good 4-5 months of 1+ million subs though, with all the free time they were giving out...I also thought EA admitted to the game being closer to 200-220 million for total costs with advertising, first time I have seen 90...Not saying its not, but I swear a high up company person was targeting 200 without advertising, to dispute the 300+ being thrown around....If it is 90, that makes things a lot easier on them though.
lol wut?
What does WoW have to do with SWTOR? And how is SWTOR too big to fail? Before SWTOR was released into its new markets they were touting over 1 million subs...now they are touting 1.3 million...after the game sold around 1 million in new markets and AFTER giving out 30 free days to existing players....Now they are talking about massive server mergers!
There is no way they have over 1 million subs after the 30 free days is up...all one has to do is look at the offical forums talking about how 1.3 may take care of the server population problems but it isnt addressing any of the actual issues that have been driving people away from the game since release...over 2 million in sales...less than 1 million staying in 6 months...thats well over the norm. Your too big to fail, is already failing with no end in site thanks to no actual content updates by a company that acts like there is nothing missing from the game.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Sigh!!!
I haven't played the game but now I don't think I want to...I've heard nothign but bad things about the game....really can't anyone get a Star Wars game right? Seems any MMO that has to do with Star Wars just fails...