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Kickstarter and its "Deceptive Future" an opinion
Unkillable
Member UncommonPosts: 123
I dont understand how anyone could dish out 100 grand for a game that doesnt have any details about ANY game features or systems or models, screenshots, videos of gameplay, or any other info besides : heres our team they have a lot of experience give us money. ie: Pathfinder Online
direct quote from their kickstarter page:
"Pathfinder Online is a hybrid sandbox/theme park-style MMO where characters explore, develop, find adventure and dominate a wilderness frontier in a land of sword and sorcery. The Pathfinder world is high fantasy in the tradition of epics like The Lord of the Rings, Conan, The Wheel of Time and Game of Thrones.
it seems this game and EoC as well, are getting tons of money, based off of proposed ideas and promise of delivery ALONE. this doesnt suit me at all. i personally sparked a thread created by a dev today based off the fact that EoC hasnt even begun to hash out the details behind their games Stat system.
my post over on the Embers of Caerus found here: http://www.embersofcaerus.com/forum/showthread.php/1294-EoC-Stat-System-Explained made some waves over there today and ultimatly lead to this post:
http://www.embersofcaerus.com/forum/showthread.php/349-Random-starter-stats-and-natural-attributes
i offically predict here that the kickstarter site, within 1 year will soon feel like a "pay for promise" site and that much of this "funding" is going to dissapoint people in the long run, leading to people thinking throwing money at ideas is the future of mmo deveolpment, which i hope to god its not. i smell the breath of money, and it stinks.
Comments
I agree.
I was disappointed that the Pathfinder "tech demo" was not a tech demo at all!
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
anyone care to help me out here? 50 people have looked at this already.
can anyone put this into perspective for me?
seems like a decent way to make money doesnt it?
and by the time you realize what youve "signed up for" they have new cars, and you have a "shiny ring" that does +3 mmo fail damage.
jesus god what is going on?
I don't think the view count reptresents the amount of unique viewers - merely the number how many times the thread has been clicked. I think you can grind it up all by yourself if you want to.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
thats just what i need, another boring grind. haha
maybe just maybe...
https://goblinworks.com/blog/
You can find more information if you read there....especially farther down. It talks about the PVE environment they wish to create and lots of other information. Pathfinder itself is the best selling pen and paper rpg at the moment (even more than the current iteration of Dungeons and Dragons). It is based off the old D&D 3.5 ruleset using the OGL. It has a huge following.
i dont mean to do this but...
fanboi's?
/case in point
Only thing I'd throw money at is a DAOC2 or UO2.
Quite some interesting stuff there.
lol @ "the hammer-and-sickle represents things that come from non-dangerous harvesting."
i would like someone to tell me some counter points to the ones ive brought up, along the lines of an intelligent conversation about this topic, i think people might be scared to face the possible reality here. not saying my opinion is truth..but anyone?
this shit has gotten out of hand.
Look sweetie, this isn't like ordering a product from Amazon. It's putting into something, vague as it might be, that might not become completed or in the form you imagine it might be. Now that you know that ( I didn't say you understand it) you are informed that the situation can be throwing your money away. That is a truth. So now you either do something or stop complaining.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
could you be serious?
re-read my OP and come back to me with something more impacting then "the reason MMO goers are throwing thier money away in desperation for something good to play, has nothing to do with the actual games "being developed"."
im not against kickstarter in any way (matter of fact i love the site) what i dont like are projects that are collecting money and thousands of dollars for that matter, solely based on the current desperate state of mmo games and the ability to take advantage of people and their money, without giving them proper info about key aspects of their games.
maybe im an asshole but i think certain things are required before i spend money on a game...like knowing what the game actually does and details therein.
Actually, they're pretty clear about what they're doing and what you can get if you read the Kickstarter page. They're building a tech demo and the people who pledge get some stuff. More interesting stuff for people who donate more money. They mention several times that it's only a tech demo and very few people will actually get to play the demo.
*shrug* I'm not sure why this is something that even deserves attention, other than for people who are fans of the Pathfinder P&P game. If a potential donator doesn't like what they get for their $, then they shouldn't donate.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
i guess this thread will forever fall on deaf ears...
*shrug* indeed sir, indeed.
Nobody is making you spend money on the game.
The most offensive thing going on in this instance is you going off on how other people spend their money. That, and you assigning motives to people that you don't even know. So, no you are not an asshole for wanting certain things from a game developer before choosing to spend the money that you earned on it. On the other hand being dismissive or belittling others for choosing how to spend their own money on something might qualify you for that pejorative.
People have been investing money, based on ideas that they find worthy of supporting, for as long as capitalism has existed. If you don't want to invest in some speculative endeavor...don't. It really is that easy.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
Nothing wrong the pathfinder project. One it's a well known IP, two its being headed by well known pnp devs, and three they didn't promise you the game at all, if you read what they are giving at each level you would have saw that.
Over all I do agree that kickstarter can be used by bad poeple but that was true before games got big on that site and it was also true with Ebay. There is always going to be a risk it's up to the customer and kickstarter to weed them out best they can but there will always be a risk.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
I have to agree. Either you like the concept, and like the bonuses they are offering for donating, and you donate what you can afford and hope for the best, or you don't and move on to a different project to fund or don't fund any at all.
Sure there will be some level of deceit and scamming going on, but that's true for any investment. Look at all the people who were scammed by Bernie Madoff and lost millions. There's always going to be some level of risk involved, it's just a matter of whether you can afford and are willing to take that risk.
But donating 5 - 10, 20 or even 50 bucks isn't exactly going to break the bank for most people, they usually get cool things for their donations, and if they are lucky, the product sees the light of day and they get the benefit of enjoying something that likely wouldn't have existed without crowdfunding.
The only ones that should be worried are the old guard, the MPAA's, the RIAA's, the EAs and Activision/Blizzards.
The more artists that turn to crowd funding the fewer artists that are going to put up with their shark like business practices and being screwed over by them.
I should think if they want to make their own game atleast they can make their own Tech Demo.
FFS the 3 of them used to be high paid salary men and they cannot fork out 50k between the 3 of them?
For me they have lost their integrity by asking kickstarter for a Tech Demo.
And also one of them Ryan Scott Dancey used to be called "the Steve Jobs of MMO Marketing" .
Bet he can whisper sweet things in your ears just to get more funds.
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language
Nah, I think it's more of a case of you being bull headed.
1) The Goblinworks crew is outlining what they intend to do with the game every two weeks via their blog.
2) Paizo, Goblinworks parent comapny is a long standing company with legitimate history.
3) It was explicitly, no matter if you personally read it or not, stated by GW that the KS was for their tech demo from which they wish to secure even more money that wouldn't be possible via KS.
As far as #3 goes, eveyone who donated knew this and wanted to help GW get that demo done based on the games direction via the blogs. That may not personally be enough for you to pull out your wallet, but it is for others. Just because it's not good enough for you doesn't invalidate it. You just don't believe in their game direction (or have not read it from the sounds of it), which is fine.
Again, everyone who donated knows this isn't a for sure deal. You only have to look at 38 studios to see that. This said, many of us are tired of the current themepark fad. You may not be, cool. But we are and as so many of you out there who screamed at sandbox gamers to put their money where their mouth is, well, we're doing it.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I am hoping that Kickstater starts to become more stringent in what they allow before that happens. Kickstarter is ideal for projects such as Pathfinder Online. Seasoned professionals in the industry with a list of released titles and a solid understanding of what is necessary to develop, market and maintain a project such as theirs in today's market. Unfortunately, as a result of recent projects in the media, we're seeing a lot of crap pour onto kickstarter by people that shouldn't even been allowed in the door.
There's been a spike of small 'studios' of people with no business plan, no experience and a 'demo' that is little more than a guy running in the one zone they created in whatever free/cheap engine they recently downloaded. Their credentials are often a proud declaration of having played games for x years, as if driving for x years qualifies one as an expert in building a car. These are what will be a detriment to Kickstarter, and I really feel that Kickstarter needs to find a way to put an effective filter in.
Until then, my advice to people interested in backing projects is to look at their industry experience and past releases. A team of people who have actually made and released a commercial game are far more likely to be able to pull it off than people who have never done so before. They are infinitely more likely to do so than people who have no experience in developing and releasing a game yet are clearly unaware of what they do not know yet.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
People investing in a product with their own money upsets you? Why do you even care OP? Because projects that couldn't be funded other than word of mouth are utilizing mediums like kickstarter to get a chance at being completed? Because some people have excess money in these hard times because they saved and invested properly are now wanting to spend some of it into something that interests them?
I'm actually confused at what the issue and point of this thread is. The kickstarter page of this project does not dupe you, doesn't steal your bank account information, nor force you into concentration camps for not paying.
Point: Who cares what other people want to spend their money on if it doesnt negativly effect yourself.
I think you are lashing out after /ragequitting (LINK), because they would not answer a question that you yourself stated that you would not answer concerning your game.
Quite honestly, there are hundreds of kickstarters available. All based on ideas. Some ideas are more developed, but they all go back to an idea, and finding people who share that same idea.
And as I stated before, it is their money, and quite frankly, they can do with it as they please. People invest in ideas on a daily basis. Many ideas fall through, but some do come to fruition.
Welcome to life.
THIS
everyone has valid points that i cannot argue.
the thread title has "an opinion" in it
and i can see its 40% agree and 60% disagree and this cannot be argued as well.
i honestly posted this about my concern for the future of mmos, and not because im the worlds keeper, these kinda of counterpoints are silly.
as far as pathfinder is concerned let them do whatever they want, i agree with the fella that said they might not have needed to ask for money for a tech demo, but i know nothing about them.
what i do know is that people need a new decent game to play and maybe 2 years from now there might be 2 or 3 of them out, and in the end thats all we want, lets be honest.
despiration brings out _________ in people. you fill in the blank.
Sending money to a Kickstarter represents trust.
If you give away your trust to a team like that of Embers of Caerus, that's up to you. While I haven't exactly spent a long time researching that dev team, the fact that they're not openly volunteering their experience on the kickstarter or their website (unless it's buried in the forums) means it would be a tremendous leap of faith to assume they're going to (a) finish the product and (b) have something fun.
And if that's not enough, they ran a poll of whether or not players' accounts should be forced to have pre-determined stats. They're making a sandbox, a game whose sole purpose is to provide players with more agency than typical MMOs, and they're thinking about removing one of the most basic forms of player agency?
Meanwhile at least with Pathfinder Online they have some veterancy showing, even if it's not much more..
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver