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Game For Explorers (Those considering purchasing read)
bookworm438
Member Posts: 647
This is strange, I think I've only started one other topic ever on this board.
**Disclaimer**
Before people say "Now this was a useless post", this is meant to help clear up some of the confusion for people thinking the game "lacked content". Not that anyone who's thinking about purchasing the game will ever read it. Also this is for those who enjoy PvE more than they PvP.
Also, even with any enjoyment of exploration, you may still not enjoy the game. If you dislike the combat, there's nothing you can do to make the game more fun for yourself. Always do extensive research before prepurchasing the game.
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Anyways, one thing everyone's going to need to understand when purchasing GW2 is that the game is especially designed for explorers. While you can stay in one area and until you hit the required level for the next area, you won't be taking full advantage of what the game has to offer. I have seen numerous posts where people went in talking about repeating so many dynamic events and just staying in one area while they leveled, or just following the hearts.
The hearts are only meant to guide you in the right direction, and to be something for completionists. They are not meant to be the main content. ArenaNet added scounts and hearts to help those who just don't know what the heck to do in the game. They even added the event panel because in testing, people had no idea what to do. Just because the game says you "completed the zone" doesn't mean you actually completed the zone. There may be some hidden dungeons (yes there are open world dungeons so to speak, filled with puzzles, traps, and tough mobs).
Before someone says "you are still limited by levels", yes in a way you are. However, if you hit mobs that are a little bit too high for you, turn around, or waypoint back to a certain spot and pick a different direction. I remember I participated in events that not many on my server appear to participate in. For examples, I protected honey bees from bears seeking the honey. As a reward, I was able to purchase a jar of bees.
I also was a able to kill a large fish boss (the mesmer underwater skills are freakin awesome), and as a result got access to a fish merchant. I didn't even experience every event. There are people who talk about certain events that I have no idea what they are talking about. And since some events only happen during the day or night, it'll take a while to experience everything.
I've seen many people with similar experiences. I've also seen numerous people say that they went though leveling without ever repeating a dynamic event. I remember I went back to that starting farm area in Queensdale waiting for the queen worm event to happen, but it never happened for me. Neither did that Shadow Behemoth. Nor did the Broodmother. 
And since ArenaNet has stated the intend to continue to add new events throughout the lifespan of the game, but never tell anyone, you can't be afraid to go explore lower level zones occasionally.
The game rewards incredible amounts of exp for exploration, so you won't be gimping yourself by walking off in a random direction. I might recommend not opening your map at all.
To sum up this post:
If you don't have the explorer mindset, this game may not be for you. If such is the case, I wish you the best of luck in whichever game you choose to play.
Comments
"God damnit! I just fell down from that jumping puzzle for the 50th damn time, so much fun!".
Umm... Grinding Donkey Kong levels doesn't sound like much fun.
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Nice post, thanks for sharing. I think there are a lot mmo players that only know that WoW formula. This game will be an epiphany to them. Threads like these will be helpful too
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
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In the last BWE I found a cave on my Norn Warrior that had these outstreched areas you could walk on and drops off on both sides. I could see deeper into the cave and it begged further exploration. As I cautiously stepped forward I could see the little red circles beneath my feet and realized there was an unknown source of danger in here.
Letting my curiosity overcome my fear of the unknown I advanced trying to dodge the red circles............wham something popped out knocking me off the ledge to a lower level in the cave. A creature noticed my fall and advanced on me as I engaged it......quickly another came at me as I tried desperately to handle the two of them .......stepping backwards I managed to aggro a third and I knew it was all over for me not a soul in site.... I was smiling in the midst of all this.and as I released I knew I would revisit that cave when I was better able to handle it's dangers. I had wandered in there in an area over my head because I could and because it had this enveloping sense of......... .ADVENTURE.
The EXPLORING is deffinitly one of the aspects of GW2 that I am iching for. It is a seperate thing from questing or PvP'ing it's just wandering around seeing what you can find. Thankfully ArenaNet has put a lot of thought into just that aspect. It appears that the package will include enough entertainment on multiple fronts to keep many entertained for a long time to come.
To sum it up: Guild Wars 2 isn't for people who want handholding.
That's basically what's being said. I mean, you're damn right too. Guild Wars 2 doesn't have quests that say "Go here, do this, come back, give me the items, then go to Step #2..repeat". Even so, it doesn't have quest hubs or locations that are only for quests that a player bounces from point to point to point.
During the last Stress Test, my Norn Necro eventually stumbled upon a small cave. No one was around. After exploring a bit, a very localized DE was triggered (or timed, I can't know for sure). I managed to complete ir, part in land and part underwater, without ever seeing another soul. The cave was actually quite large, and I suspect there's more inside there. I'll investigate it further next BWE.
Mind you, the map was packed, but people usually converged to the bigger DEs, for some reason. I did the Ice Shaman DE (the one who takes a goodly amount of people to finish), and after some hours, when I was crossing the region again, I saw some os the same people still there, apparently 'grinding' the DE. At the same time, I discovered a lot if interesting things (while still advancing my character) in several nooks and crannies, and I seldom met anyone else.
I think the herd mentality modern games have instilled in people is very harmful. It dictates how you should play, and drives us instinctively towards the 'optimal curve' even when it is not relevant (like in GW2). More games like these must pop around to break this stupefying spell over people, and then maybe we can have some fun together.
That's the thing I'm takling about. People see these heart quests, and the events around the heart quests. They see that as the only content, and so therefore must grind until they level. When in reality, they just need to explore a little bit. The game gives ridiculous amounts of exp for exploration. ArenaNet stated there are a ton of smaller dynamic events all over the place, waiting to be triggered.
I mean on my server, I saw very few people entering caves unless they had too.
i hope the OP is correct.... as an in-game explorer myself i love finding little off the beaten path places. in ff11 i liked taking a group to non traditional leveling camps - in eq1 too. even in wow i would find the places to go where others missed. (desolace on horde side--- screw you STV!!)
I have been intentionally staying a good distance from gw2 news because i want to go into OBT and to playing the game with as open a mind as possible but the idea of exploring has my interest very - er interested
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
It's probably the most appealing aspect of the game to me as well. I'm afraid it's going to be like 10 hours of game play, but taking friends through deserted dungeons like Nurga, Kaesora and that damned panda fortress in the middle of that Kunark Mountain zone were some of my coolest time in gaming.... unfortunately GW2 doesn't lend itself much to that type of team oriented game play, but hopefully it will have some treasures in store.
Yes, the game relies a lot on exploration. ArenaNet does not advertise many things with large signs saying hidden puzzle here. There are many people with experiences in just the starting 2 zones of their races where they discovered hidden puzzles or caves. And at the end of these things are chests that are suppose to be filled with rewards worthy of your efforts (unfortunately many were bugged in beta).
However, I do have to say GW2 still may not be for you. If you can't stand the combat, then there's nothing the game can do that will make the game better for you. If you know someone playing the game, ask them to let you try it the next beta weekend. ArenaNet rewards explorers extensively. There are (depending on your definition) hidden open world dungeons. These are filled with mobs and bosses worthy of a regular dungeon, and filled with puzzles and traps you will need to figure out. According to the reviews I've seen, these things aren't easy either. It's very easy to die in these things apparently. So there is a lot out there that you can't see, and it can be deadly too.
Ooooki...I guess its up to the reader whether this post is helpful or...insulting?! Anyway I found it helpful since I thought GW2 would follow the WoW standard in questing etc. Bad research maybe. Delighted to see the case isnt so. Nice post, thanks!
It can...if you are looking to make it do that. That is doing exactly as I said not to do, following the hearts, grinding the events surrounding the hearts and nothing else, then moving on. I have found, and from what I've read so far, that it's not the most effective or efficient form of gameplay, but you have the option of doing that. As I said, the game rewards crazy amounts of exp for exploration. And it's all relative to your current level. I read someone got to level 7 just from exploring the 4 cities available in the game.
Well I hope so I miss true exploration in an MMO, the question is though, how far can you explore before you run into content above your ability due to level? How they handle that will determine how much exploration really plays a part in the game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
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Let's stay on topic and discuss the actual points raised by the OP! Thanks.
To be honest with you, when I 1st read the post, I got the same impression....Like I wasn't smart enough to be able to piece the same information together and come up with my own decision. I too felt it was condescending. I believe that you didn't mean for it, but it did come across that way.
For us that started with M59, The realm, UO, EQ or AC there is still plenty of handholding, Anet just tooned it down a bit. For Wow players on the other hand things are rather different.
Personally I like it. I missed exploration in this genre for many years.
Yes, there's still a bit in the hearts things, but not as much as say WoW, WAR, CoH, SW:TOR, Tera, Rift, and so many others in the genre. Most of this game (GW2) is about "see action, go to the action and particpate in said action".
It's not telling an adult that they "need" hand-holding, but the fact is that there are people that want that kind of gameplay and GW2 is not for them. In fact, many games do the handholding things. Take for example how WoW has quests that will literally have you go from one the one quest hub you were just at to the next one over, just to guide you there. It will then draw an arrow on your map followed by circles within the area to tell you it's there to; besides the big name on the map that already tells you it's that location to.
And, just take the quest topic even further on, is how there's an NPC to even tell you to do something. For example, if there's 200+ bears invading the area, you have to talk to the NPC and have him give you a quest to then kill the bears....usually you have to fight said bears all the way to the NPC to then give you the quest just to kill bears you just killed.
Have you ever gotten one of those quests that says "kill 20 brown bears" after you've just killed 10-12 and are really annoyed that none of them counted to the quest? Ya, that's bull. In Guild Wars 2, you get dynamic event credit for just doing it without some stupid NPC telling you to, because it's obvious. This game says "if it's obvious, you don't need to be told it should be done." Other games are the opposite, thus the hand holding comparision.
Exploring is one of the great things about this game. My fiance and I were in the Norn lands, just following the road, and a Escort DE started up. I love those. Anyways, there were a few other people around also doing it. After we got to where it was going, just kinda explored around when a turrent popped up. We of course took care of it and there was a cave. Two other people were around the same place so we all just went into the cave (and of course a DE pop'd up) and all 4 of use stuck together and did this DE. Didnt really need to talk, just kinda all wanted to see what was in teh cave.
Things like this makes me excited for the game. I was always finding something everytime I went off the beaten path.
I played BWE1 by exploring. I did most heart tasks when I found them, but I also explored the map and found a number of DEs along the way. My highest level characgter was a level 20 Elementalist. In addition to exploring the Human level 2-15 zone, I did my personal story up to level 16 and spent a couple hours adventuring in the Charr/Norn lands with a friend. As beta was nearing an end, I realized I was level 17 and still had at least a quarter of Queensland to explore and likely a lot more than 25% of the total content there untapped.
I headed to Kessex Hills, just to see another zone and spent my last three hours there, just scratching the surface of what the zone had to offer.
The point is, I maybe took advantage of 70%, (tops), of the content in Queensland, 10% of the content in the Norn Starting zone and 5% of the content in the Charr starting zone. Along with personal story, that put me about half way to level 18. If you figure in the content that will be available with the Asura and Sylvari starting areas, I may have only tapped about 16% of all level 2-15 content in the game on my way to level 17! (It's probably less than that, since there are a lot of hidden areas and Dynamic Events I didn't discover in my time playing, which would reduce my estimates on how much of the available content I encountered).
Since level scaling allows all that level 2-15 content to remain viable for me long after I've outleveled it, all the content I missed goes in my "bank" of unexplored content available to my character and all that content will award me XP and loot based on my character's true level.
Every race also has it's own level 15 to 25 zone. With the GW2 leveling curve going flat at level 20, we can anticipate that the process of leveling up to level 25 will also leave a large portion of the level 15 to 25 content untapped and all that content will also be added to our "bank" of unexplored, unexperienced content that remains viable as a source of leveling and loot. When I have reached level 25, I may now have only tapped 20% of all level 15 to 25 content. That 80% I've missed gets added to the 84% of level 2 to 15 content I have yet to experience.
Though the level curve remains flat beyond level 20, the number of redundant zones for each level range drops, so we will likely experience maybe 50% of on level content as we continue to progress. However, we have this ever growing pool of lower level content we haven't experienced yet that thanks to level scaling, we can return back to at any time for leveling.
This is great for alt-a-holics, but just as good for explorers. It should be pretty clear that there will be way more content available than anyone would need in order to reach the level cap and due to level scaling, we just expand the content available to us as we level, rather than invalidating content more than a couple levels beneath us.
Now, the caveat. I played a Warrior to level 10 during the 7 hour stress test. I played in the human lands, but server errors with the personal story instances prevented me from doing the personal story as part of leveling. Since I knew some people were complaining about what they experienced as a lack of content for leveling, I decided to level entirely with in the Human Lands. I will admit that if you do stick to just your racial starting zone and skip the Personal Story, the level 2-6 experience can leave you feeling like content is a bit sparse, espescially if you have bad timing and miss a number of events that occur in this mini-region with in the level 2-15 game zone. I did have to repeat a couple DEs to hit level 7 and head off into the broader expanse of the zone.
Once I got to level 7 and the map opened up more for me, I didn't experience any lack of content as I progressed from level 7 to 10 and there was a fair portion of content in that level range I have experienced on other toons that I missed during that time.
TLDR:
It is very possible to feel a content crunch up to level 6, if you skip the personal story and stick just to your race's starting zone. However, you will have four other starter zones, which are very easy to get to right from level 2, to supplement your leveling and exploration needs; far more than you actually need to level a character from level 2 to level 6. Personal Story is also very rewarding. Even if you don't care for the story elements, the items rewards are worth the effort and you will earn a good portion of your XP there as well. Since the Personal Story requires you to travel to the place on the world map, before entering the Story Instance, you will also likely run into content along the way as well.
From level 7 on, the world really opens up and the redundancy of content becomes massive, espescially when you factor in that level scaling means you don't outlevel content and you can still get XP and loot appropriate for your level while doing lower level content.
This redundancy of content and landscape to explore makes it a perfect game for explorers.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I for one think that this game turns people into explorers after a while...you know...after we have been deprogrammed from all the other games we have played.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
Sounds good, I'll take your word for it for now, but, if my experience is different I will hunt you down, I may not be able to do much in GW2, but I can stare, if you ever see this same guy just staring at you; all the time following you around staring, it's me. :P If I don't get to see for myself, it's stuff like this that will lead me to buy the game, sounds like a game for those who want to see what MMO's could have been, if they streamlined/innovated on things that made old MMO's good.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Personally since 03 I've only played a few that were linear, games like SWG and Morrowind spoiled me I can't enjoy many games that aren't that way, unless they're RTS or online shooters..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Honestly, I think to an extent, you're going to get out of it what you put into it.
My advice is that you only take the heart quests as a mild suggestion, and keep them in the back of your mind without obsessively carrying them out.
I've found the game is (For me at least) a LOT more fun if you run around and do things like 'I wonder what's over THERE'. I actually didn't do a good half of the heart quests when I was playing the first time around through the content, and then later as I'd wander by them (Running to and from the main city because teleporting everywhere is a waste of good scenery), I'd finish them off in passing here and there.
I think people who look at heart tasks as the replacement for quest hubs are just asking for trouble because 1. It'll get more boring that way 2. You're going to miss out on dynamic events if you don't poke around a little and 3. They're only a small portion of the possible content, and therefore you'll burn through them quickly.
Just my personal suggestion. Try playing with the spirit of exploring at heart, and a sort of 'Oh, those people are in trouble, I'll help them!' attitude. I pretty much made a beeline for every interesting looking geographical location I spotted on the off chance it'd be hiding something awesome.
Sometimes I even found ridiculously teeny little caves, like 'Congrautlations, you found a secret room... that extends for about two rooms and a corridor. Go you!'