SWTOR had a perfect IP and opportunity to make a game that could hold 1 million subs, but instead tried to make a co-op KOTOR with WoW like flavors to justify a monthly Sub.. I'm so disappointed in Bioware/EA
I am really confused as to why everyone seems to think that Bioware promised anything other then WoW + Star Wars. They said as much from the beginning. On top of that, I believe that EA pushed Bioware for release and lots of the money put into development never panned out into actual game systems.
Since the very beginning you could easily tell that the game was riding solely on the Star Wars IP, BioWare's writting and nothing else.
I just wonder how anyone could believe that SWTOR was going to have strong gameplay when BWAustin refused to discuss many gameplay aspects only a few months before release. "We'll have all the expected MMO features" anyone?
I feast on the tears of all the disappointed fanbois who bought into the hype without ever using their critical thinking to evaluate the product they were purchasing.
I knew what I was getting because I tested the damn thing. It's WoW w/ lightsabers and that's fine. I fully expected that. I am currently enjoying KoTORs 3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10. What Bioware didn't deliever on is a majority of the traditional MMO features that other games out on the market already had. Their product should've had the been so polished and complete that it did WoW better than WoW. However, it is pretty much just WoW (queue deep echoy voice) IN SPACE!!
But it was never going to be SWG 2 like roughly 90% of the posters who bitch about TOR seem to think. It still blows my mind as to how many people seem to be butthurt about about not getting SWG 2 when Bioware promised no such thing.
By all means continue to drink those fanboi tears though. They should get you through till GW2 and then...well... I really hope it doesn't pull an AoC...
SWTOR had a perfect IP and opportunity to make a game that could hold 1 million subs, but instead tried to make a co-op KOTOR with WoW like flavors to justify a monthly Sub.. I'm so disappointed in Bioware/EA
I am really confused as to why everyone seems to think that Bioware promised anything other then WoW + Star Wars. They said as much from the beginning. On top of that, I believe that EA pushed Bioware for release and lots of the money put into development never panned out into actual game systems.
Edit: I've said this before too. Those who call every game since WoW a WoW clone, there's a reason why they're so similar...because they're all MMOs! The formula for an MMO hasn't really changed much since Neverwinter Nights...the original MMO...like I keep telling people. If you're expecting something different, you're going to be disappointed everytime. THAT'S WHAT AN MMO IS!
NWN was neither massively multiplayer, nor did most of the peaople playing it even do so with others. And lets not even get started on all the MMOs that came before it
My god i hope you're trolling
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
I really wanted to love this game.....I was so hyped to play it.My pc is a few years old and i had to turn down the graphics so much that i couldnt even enjoy the story and cutscenes...and to me thats all it had going for it. When i tried to pvp i would rubberband to the point i just quit after 15 days. NOW with that said I am playing Tera on highest details without a SHRED of pc lag and its a much more beautiful looking game than TOR by a long shot. Bluehole studios first game and the quality just destroys tor regarding graphic and engine and how long has bioware been making games??? Like i say i had hopes for tor and i was a fanboy for sure...until i tried it
I really wanted to love this game.....I was so hyped to play it.My pc is a few years old and i had to turn down the graphics so much that i couldnt even enjoy the story and cutscenes...and to me thats all it had going for it. When i tried to pvp i would rubberband to the point i just quit after 15 days. NOW with that said I am playing Tera on highest details without a SHRED of pc lag and its a much more beautiful looking game than TOR by a long shot. Bluehole studios first game and the quality just destroys tor regarding graphic and engine and how long has bioware been making games??? Like i say i had hopes for tor and i was a fanboy for sure...until i tried it
SWTOR is on a heavily modified version of Hero engine which is so broken that the performance problems in the game are impossible to solve.
All because in the initial stages, one of the lead project managers at Bioware decided SWTOR would run on an untested engine made by his personal buddy, and threw money his way.
Nepotism, dishonesty and incompetent lead developers, the story of SWTOR in a nutshell.
SWTOR had a perfect IP and opportunity to make a game that could hold 1 million subs, but instead tried to make a co-op KOTOR with WoW like flavors to justify a monthly Sub.. I'm so disappointed in Bioware/EA
I am really confused as to why everyone seems to think that Bioware promised anything other then WoW + Star Wars. They said as much from the beginning. On top of that, I believe that EA pushed Bioware for release and lots of the money put into development never panned out into actual game systems.
Since the very beginning you could easily tell that the game was riding solely on the Star Wars IP, BioWare's writting and nothing else.
I just wonder how anyone could believe that SWTOR was going to have strong gameplay when BWAustin refused to discuss many gameplay aspects only a few months before release. "We'll have all the expected MMO features" anyone?
I feast on the tears of all the disappointed fanbois who bought into the hype without ever using their critical thinking to evaluate the product they were purchasing.
Tears?
Like the GW2 fans out collecting pop bottles to afford the P2W mechanics? Or perhaps simply the "GW2 beta isnt as good as we thought it was going to be" tears? You will need to clarify for us.
Nothing says "I am afraid I wasted my money buying a game I havent touched" like a GW2 fan showing up in this forum to run shit. We get it....you wanna feel better about dumping cash into a game that is not only far from launch, but could stand to go back to pre alpha build mode.
So spare us....we actually have a game to play for the money we spent. You? Not so much, and the way it is looking, it wont matter when it does actually show. It is pretty sad to see posts about folks already tiring of the game play over in those forums. The words Boring and Costly come to mind when someone mentions GW2. I am sure you can relate.
So you will forgive me if your attempts to taunt are met with redicule. Other than the MMO sandboxers hanging about here, GW2 fanbois are the next biggest joke in this forum. So if being a TOR fan means I am exhibiting tears, I would have to say you folks on teetering on suicidal tendacies.
The TL;DR version would read "hyperbole is good eh?"
Ouch...he must have touched a nerve there. That was awfully defensive.
He wasn't even talking about you. You're obviously still enjoying the game, so you're not one of the many "fanbois" who were disappointed and raged around the internet. But it's true there's also those who didn't use their critical thinking and prepurchased GW2, not knowing full well what it has to offer, so they ended up disappointed (and raged around the internet too).
And lastly, all "fanbois" are equally the biggest joke everywhere.
Originally posted by GravargEdit: I've said this before too. Those who call every game since WoW a WoW clone, there's a reason why they're so similar...because they're all MMOs! The formula for an MMO hasn't really changed much since Neverwinter Nights...the original MMO...like I keep telling people. If you're expecting something different, you're going to be disappointed everytime. THAT'S WHAT AN MMO IS!
NWN was neither massively multiplayer, nor did most of the peaople playing it even do so with others. And lets not even get started on all the MMOs that came before it
My god i hope you're trolling
Seriously dude I think you are confusing the Neverwinters.
Neverwinter Nights AOL was the first in the early 90's, the term "massive" is subjective and 50 people at once was considered massive at the time.
Name "all" the MMO's that came before it... I know you don't know what you are speaking of, do you?
For starters, EQ came out in '99, two years AFTER Neverwinter shutdown.
In one of there financial statements at launch i had read they anticipated the life for SWTOR to be around for 10 years
Must have been dog years then.
Lol
Nice one
/bow
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
We got folks on here collecting door to door to get a MMO sandbox made(the repopulation), yet when a themepark sells a bunch of boxes(breaking records no less), and still is the 2nd most subbed NA game, you wanna cry "foul ball".
It only sold a bunch of boxes on hype, KOTORs success and Bioware success. The fact it was a themepark game was irrelevant as to why it sold so many boxes, as not many knew what the game would be like or turn out to be.
The fact that the game has not been able to sustain the subscriptions shows that themepark games do not hold people, particularly when you can get a more solid and worthwhile experience in WOW.
Retaining mass load of subs and / or still selling loads of boxes 6 months later > number of boxes sold at launch.
Minecraft Xbox 360 has sold over 2 million copies and that is from its reputation and success and knowing what you are getting from the PC version. That is sales from people wanting to buy a sandbox game.
Originally posted by superniceguy Originally posted by Moaky07We got folks on here collecting door to door to get a MMO sandbox made(the repopulation), yet when a themepark sells a bunch of boxes(breaking records no less), and still is the 2nd most subbed NA game, you wanna cry "foul ball".
It only sold a bunch of boxes on hype, KOTORs success and Bioware success. The fact it was a themepark game was irrelevant as to why it sold so many boxes, as not many knew what the game would be like or turn out to be.
The fact that the game has not been able to sustain the subscriptions shows that themepark games do not hold people, particularly when you can get a more solid and worthwhile experience in WOW.
Retaining mass load of subs and / or still selling loads of boxes 6 months later > number of boxes sold at launch.
Minecraft Xbox 360 has sold over 2 million copies and that is from its reputation and success and knowing what you are getting from the PC version. That is sales from people wanting to buy a sandbox game.
Everyone knew the game was going to be like WoW with a story line. Nobody bought the game expecting to see SWG or any other sandbox game. It's entirely understandable that people would be disappointed with the game and the WoW side of the equation, but saying not many people knew what to expect is silly.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Moaky07We got folks on here collecting door to door to get a MMO sandbox made(the repopulation), yet when a themepark sells a bunch of boxes(breaking records no less), and still is the 2nd most subbed NA game, you wanna cry "foul ball".
It only sold a bunch of boxes on hype, KOTORs success and Bioware success. The fact it was a themepark game was irrelevant as to why it sold so many boxes, as not many knew what the game would be like or turn out to be.
The fact that the game has not been able to sustain the subscriptions shows that themepark games do not hold people, particularly when you can get a more solid and worthwhile experience in WOW.
Retaining mass load of subs and / or still selling loads of boxes 6 months later > number of boxes sold at launch.
Minecraft Xbox 360 has sold over 2 million copies and that is from its reputation and success and knowing what you are getting from the PC version. That is sales from people wanting to buy a sandbox game.
Everyone knew the game was going to be like WoW with a story line. Nobody bought the game expecting to see SWG or any other sandbox game. It's entirely understandable that people would be disappointed with the game and the WoW side of the equation, but saying not many people knew what to expect is silly.
I didn't say people were expecting it b e like SWG or even a sandbox. SWTOR is so restrictive that it makes all theme park games seem like a sandbox.
Why is WOW still keeping people playing and not SWTOR, even after 8 years?
When SWTOR was released it seemed the right time, people were getting fed up of WOW, and SWTOR was somthing new, except people still clung to WOW.
Even if SWTOR retained subs for a year before dropping, it still would not have touched WOWs success, but would not have made it the huge flop it is.
I doubt SWTOR would have reached its mass sales if everyone knew what the game would be like 6 months from release When you buy a MMO you expect to play it for a long time. That is what people were expecting, but that is not what they got.
I don't know if you realize this, but he didn't say anything about GW2.
He feels really unsure and threatened by GW2.
He brings it up in every thread about SWTOR. Its kinda sad really.
Really? I would love to see the quoted confirmation of your claim. More importantly, I would love to see the instances where any response towards GW2 is initiated, or in response to a GW2 fanboi showing up to spew shit. Which forum are we in again?
If things were like you say, wouldnt there also be accompanying posts in the GW2 section to flame it as well?
I would say you are projecting. The correct response would be that I am annoyed with folks that spend their time spamming BS about a game they dont play, and in said games forums no less. I dont suppose you would happen to know the type of tools I refer to personally? I bet you resemble err know what I mean.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Really? I would love to see the quoted confirmation of your claim. More importantly, I would love to see the instances where any response towards GW2 is initiated, or in response to a GW2 fanboi showing up to spew shit. Which forum are we in again?
If things were like you say, wouldnt there also be accompanying posts in the GW2 section to flame it as well?
I would say you are projecting. The correct response would be that I am annoyed with folks that spend their time spamming BS about a game they dont play, and in said games forums no less. I dont suppose you would happen to know the type of tools I refer to personally? I bet you resemble err know what I mean.
I think that everyone that pays their money for a game is entitled to say whatever they want about the game. It's their opinion of the game that they paid for and played. I'm glad there are people out there that voice likes and dislikes about a game. It saves me time and money and gives me an idea what to expect from a game if I decide to buy it.
I think that everyone that pays their money for a game is entitled to say whatever they want about the game. It's their opinion of the game that they paid for and played. I'm glad there are people out there that voice likes and dislikes about a game. It saves me time and money and gives me an idea what to expect from a game if I decide to buy it.
Yep, completely agree. Very well said.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
While I don't play Swtor and I really don't like what has became of BW - this hatewagon is a bit too much and gotten very old tbh
Sorry but SWTOR deserves every piece of hate it gets. If we take the BigHatLogan formula of money invested per quality of game ratio it is the WORST GAME EVER MADE. Interestingly enough, using the same formula the Star Wars prequels are the three worst movies ever made. As far as the OP's post, you can only fit so many players on a server and the vast majority of servers are greyed out. 200 to 300k subs is probably a good guess. I'm pretty surprised that their are even that many people out there that actually like SWTOR.
Get over yourself.
We got folks on here collecting door to door to get a MMO sandbox made(the repopulation), yet when a themepark sells a bunch of boxes(breaking records no less), and still is the 2nd most subbed NA game, you wanna cry "foul ball".
Here is a big shock for ya.....folks like different things in life. As I said, get over yourself. Had they made this game like SWG, the BW folks would of been panhandling with the rest of the wanna bees.
Now I would suggest if you want a MMO sandbox made, you get out there collecting donations with the usual list of individuals showing up here to fling poo. Because no matter how many times you guys complain in this forum, you are getting no closer to any AAA studios producing a game for ya.
At least the Repop Devs are trying to do something about it, rather drawing the ire of fellow gamers. The OP was nothing but a shit stir, and yet once again it is the same individuals chiming in like their testimonial is of consequense.
The TL;DR version would read show me any legitimate estimates on 200 to 300k subs, otherwise it is another "we want a sandbox" jealousy issue AFAIAC.
No need to pan handle now. SWTOR has shown that themeparks are not a safe investment, and now maybe some devs will be more willing to take risks. And even if I am wrong here, and the bean counters will never ever ever ever ever ever agree to make a sandbox game, it doesn't change just how bad a game SWTOR is. At the very least developers will think twice about cloning WoW. And why would I want to get over myself when I'm so great?
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now! I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
I think that everyone that pays their money for a game is entitled to say whatever they want about the game. It's their opinion of the game that they paid for and played. I'm glad there are people out there that voice likes and dislikes about a game. It saves me time and money and gives me an idea what to expect from a game if I decide to buy it.
I agree but I also think that repeating the same things over and over in a forum is trolling.
If you don't like a game it is fine to write a long and agry review or post about it, no problem. and it is fine to discuss why you don´t like a game as well but many people on this forum use copy and paste to say the same things over and over, clogging the forums with useless crap.
And yes, TOR have gotten badly trolled lately but as the latest released AAA game that is really no surprise.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Comments
I knew what I was getting because I tested the damn thing. It's WoW w/ lightsabers and that's fine. I fully expected that. I am currently enjoying KoTORs 3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10. What Bioware didn't deliever on is a majority of the traditional MMO features that other games out on the market already had. Their product should've had the been so polished and complete that it did WoW better than WoW. However, it is pretty much just WoW (queue deep echoy voice) IN SPACE!!
But it was never going to be SWG 2 like roughly 90% of the posters who bitch about TOR seem to think. It still blows my mind as to how many people seem to be butthurt about about not getting SWG 2 when Bioware promised no such thing.
By all means continue to drink those fanboi tears though. They should get you through till GW2 and then...well... I really hope it doesn't pull an AoC...
Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape
WoW+TOR would be an improvement.
NWN was neither massively multiplayer, nor did most of the peaople playing it even do so with others. And lets not even get started on all the MMOs that came before it
My god i hope you're trolling
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
He feels really unsure and threatened by GW2.
He brings it up in every thread about SWTOR. Its kinda sad really.
I really wanted to love this game.....I was so hyped to play it.My pc is a few years old and i had to turn down the graphics so much that i couldnt even enjoy the story and cutscenes...and to me thats all it had going for it. When i tried to pvp i would rubberband to the point i just quit after 15 days. NOW with that said I am playing Tera on highest details without a SHRED of pc lag and its a much more beautiful looking game than TOR by a long shot. Bluehole studios first game and the quality just destroys tor regarding graphic and engine and how long has bioware been making games??? Like i say i had hopes for tor and i was a fanboy for sure...until i tried it
SWTOR is on a heavily modified version of Hero engine which is so broken that the performance problems in the game are impossible to solve.
All because in the initial stages, one of the lead project managers at Bioware decided SWTOR would run on an untested engine made by his personal buddy, and threw money his way.
Nepotism, dishonesty and incompetent lead developers, the story of SWTOR in a nutshell.
I think he simply read the other posts of the guy he replied on, or was aware of his other posts in which the guy did talk about GW2 all the time
Ouch...he must have touched a nerve there. That was awfully defensive.
He wasn't even talking about you. You're obviously still enjoying the game, so you're not one of the many "fanbois" who were disappointed and raged around the internet. But it's true there's also those who didn't use their critical thinking and prepurchased GW2, not knowing full well what it has to offer, so they ended up disappointed (and raged around the internet too).
And lastly, all "fanbois" are equally the biggest joke everywhere.
In one of there financial statements at launch i had read they anticipated the life for SWTOR to be around for 10 years
Must have been dog years then.
Seriously dude I think you are confusing the Neverwinters.
Neverwinter Nights AOL was the first in the early 90's, the term "massive" is subjective and 50 people at once was considered massive at the time.
Name "all" the MMO's that came before it... I know you don't know what you are speaking of, do you?
For starters, EQ came out in '99, two years AFTER Neverwinter shutdown.
lol.........
Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games
Lol
Nice one
/bow
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
It only sold a bunch of boxes on hype, KOTORs success and Bioware success. The fact it was a themepark game was irrelevant as to why it sold so many boxes, as not many knew what the game would be like or turn out to be.
The fact that the game has not been able to sustain the subscriptions shows that themepark games do not hold people, particularly when you can get a more solid and worthwhile experience in WOW.
Retaining mass load of subs and / or still selling loads of boxes 6 months later > number of boxes sold at launch.
Minecraft Xbox 360 has sold over 2 million copies and that is from its reputation and success and knowing what you are getting from the PC version. That is sales from people wanting to buy a sandbox game.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
The fact that the game has not been able to sustain the subscriptions shows that themepark games do not hold people, particularly when you can get a more solid and worthwhile experience in WOW.
Retaining mass load of subs and / or still selling loads of boxes 6 months later > number of boxes sold at launch.
Minecraft Xbox 360 has sold over 2 million copies and that is from its reputation and success and knowing what you are getting from the PC version. That is sales from people wanting to buy a sandbox game.
Everyone knew the game was going to be like WoW with a story line. Nobody bought the game expecting to see SWG or any other sandbox game. It's entirely understandable that people would be disappointed with the game and the WoW side of the equation, but saying not many people knew what to expect is silly.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I didn't say people were expecting it b e like SWG or even a sandbox. SWTOR is so restrictive that it makes all theme park games seem like a sandbox.
Why is WOW still keeping people playing and not SWTOR, even after 8 years?
When SWTOR was released it seemed the right time, people were getting fed up of WOW, and SWTOR was somthing new, except people still clung to WOW.
Even if SWTOR retained subs for a year before dropping, it still would not have touched WOWs success, but would not have made it the huge flop it is.
I doubt SWTOR would have reached its mass sales if everyone knew what the game would be like 6 months from release When you buy a MMO you expect to play it for a long time. That is what people were expecting, but that is not what they got.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Really? I would love to see the quoted confirmation of your claim. More importantly, I would love to see the instances where any response towards GW2 is initiated, or in response to a GW2 fanboi showing up to spew shit. Which forum are we in again?
If things were like you say, wouldnt there also be accompanying posts in the GW2 section to flame it as well?
I would say you are projecting. The correct response would be that I am annoyed with folks that spend their time spamming BS about a game they dont play, and in said games forums no less. I dont suppose you would happen to know the type of tools I refer to personally? I bet you resemble err know what I mean.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I think that everyone that pays their money for a game is entitled to say whatever they want about the game. It's their opinion of the game that they paid for and played. I'm glad there are people out there that voice likes and dislikes about a game. It saves me time and money and gives me an idea what to expect from a game if I decide to buy it.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Yep, completely agree. Very well said.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
No need to pan handle now. SWTOR has shown that themeparks are not a safe investment, and now maybe some devs will be more willing to take risks. And even if I am wrong here, and the bean counters will never ever ever ever ever ever agree to make a sandbox game, it doesn't change just how bad a game SWTOR is. At the very least developers will think twice about cloning WoW. And why would I want to get over myself when I'm so great?
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
I agree but I also think that repeating the same things over and over in a forum is trolling.
If you don't like a game it is fine to write a long and agry review or post about it, no problem. and it is fine to discuss why you don´t like a game as well but many people on this forum use copy and paste to say the same things over and over, clogging the forums with useless crap.
And yes, TOR have gotten badly trolled lately but as the latest released AAA game that is really no surprise.
This is however not just about TOR but all games.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I also think people falsely use SWTOR as the definitive evidence that themepark is dead. SWTOR is a horrid RPG and even worse MMORPG - bad case study.
Rift might be a better example of the viability of themepark games.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.