The money trail.

Bardus

It's widely excepted that TOR is the most expensive game ever, but whenever anyone mentions lack of content and features there's always someone that says we can't compare a new game to one that's been live for a lot longer.

My question is does anyone have the production cost and/or life span cost of other games so we can see who really has the most bang for the buck?

Bardus

105 views so far and not a sole has taken a stab at this. I'm kinda surprised TBH or is TOR the only game we have any numbers for? Maybe they thought they were bragging by leaking it?

davestr1zl

Originally posted by Bardus

105 views so far and not a sole has taken a stab at this. I'm kinda surprised TBH or is TOR the only game we have any numbers for? Maybe they thought they were bragging by leaking it?

No one knows how much TOR cost, nothing was leaked, only speculated.

Likewise its very unlikely that anyone knows how much the vast majority of games actually cost, so honestly its impossible to compare as it will be comparing one speculation to another.

SuperDonk

There is probably only a handful of people at EA that really know what the cost of making SWTOR was. What we do know is they spent a lot, and don't realy have anything to show for it.

Bardus

The most common speculation is $200+million and there has been no effort from EA to debunk that since it has been a major contributor towards the game's rage.

There's no need in talking absolutes when talking millions of dollars so some speculation should be acceptable to an exstent.

Just say as an example because I have no clue. Say WOW cost 50 million to develop and another 50 million on all the updates and expansions since it launched. That's 100 million in estimated cost for WOW over the years. How does a 100 million WOW compare to a 200 million TOR? It could be a 500 million WOW by now for all I know or how does TOR compare to just the 50 million that WOW launched with. See what I'm asking?

But if no one has any numbers to even get in the ballpark of knowing what other games are then yeah I'm asking the impossible.

Didn’t hurt to ask.

Rocketeer

The only clue we really have are games like EvE, Rift or EQ. They have had a comparatively small subscriberbase over their life, yet all brought out new content at a very respectable speed. If we surmise that no publisher invests more money into the running costs of a game than he gets out, we can make some really rough guesses how much it costs to maintain a team or artists, gamedesigners etcpp.

So yeah, i think EA made some bad choices on where to spent their money. They really do not have that much to show apart from VOs, and VOs are not THAT expensive. Surely voicing can't cost more than whole actors in some second rate TV shows we are made to suffer through.

 

Hmm thinking about it i always took those high numbers for granted but ... really what was the expensive part? They didn't make the game particularly fast, nor is it particularly big(graphic assets wise). Other far cheaper games also have a big world and the CS etc are not THAT far beyond your usual fare in gaming...

MuratReis

I watched an interview wiyh Rahg Koster and he said  that WoW was x20 more expensive to make than SWG...SWTOR was probably more expansive than WoW...The cost of MMORPG production keeps going up, which isn't good for independent producers. 

 

Source:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6_Dq1Bw0Ss

gladosrev2

I remember at the time Allods Online was being made, it was (and I think still is) the most expensive european AAA MMO at a whopping.. 12 million $. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allods_Online

Now the game was at the time the leading FTP MMO with graphics rivalling or besting many P2P titles, and gameplay you would expect from a AAA MMO, that was before the P2P MMO's started converting to the FTP model, and I would say it still is the best MMO that was developped as FTP. It has it's flaws with cash shop, and is a WoW clone, but it does have plenty of content and good graphics, which is really astounding considering the 'low' price of 12 million. If you compare that to the budget TOR supposedly had, you really can't help but to shake head at what Bioware did with that money. If 12 million is enough to developp a perfectly fine MMO world, what happened to the remaining 100+ million?

tollbooth

Originally posted by gladosrev2

I remember at the time Allods Online was being made, it was (and I think still is) the most expensive european AAA MMO at a whopping.. 12 million $. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allods_Online

Now the game was at the time the leading FTP MMO with graphics rivalling or besting many P2P titles, and gameplay you would expect from a AAA MMO, that was before the P2P MMO's started converting to the FTP model, and I would say it still is the best MMO that was developped as FTP. It has it's flaws with cash shop, and is a WoW clone, but it does have plenty of content and good graphics, which is really astounding considering the 'low' price of 12 million. If you compare that to the budget TOR supposedly had, you really can't help but to shake head at what Bioware did with that money. If 12 million is enough to developp a perfectly fine MMO world, what happened to the remaining 100+ million?

It's funny that you mention Allods because I think it's a much better game then SWTOR and falls into the same wow clone style of gameplay.

Wasn't there an article that Trion had alloted something like 40mil for Rift? 

ipeka

Originally posted by tollbooth

It's funny that you mention Allods because I think it's a much better game then SWTOR and falls into the same wow clone style of gameplay.

Wasn't there an article that Trion had alloted something like 40mil for Rift? 

i would put the ame structure and design somewhere above 40 mill for swtor , the rest would probably VAs and animation.?

Clywd

Rift costed 50 millions, as trion said. Half of it was spent for marketing. I think, marketing and management are the top two cost centers for tor as well.

korent1991

Originally posted by Clywd
Rift costed 50 millions, as trion said. Half of it was spent for marketing. I think, marketing and management are the top two cost centers for tor as well.

I think they spent way more on voice overs than on management (because it looks like they're not organised much with pathetic customer support)...  

Bardus

Originally posted by Clywd
Rift costed 50 millions, as trion said. Half of it was spent for marketing. I think, marketing and management are the top two cost centers for tor as well.

There we go, have our 1st comparison.

Now regardless of marketing or any other excuse anyone can think of. How does TOR and Rift compare in features and content at launch since that Rift figure is development cost right?

korent1991

Originally posted by Bardus

It's widely excepted that TOR is the most expensive game ever, but whenever anyone mentions lack of content and features there's always someone that says we can't compare a new game to one that's been live for a lot longer.

My question is does anyone have the production cost and/or life span cost of other games so we can see who really has the most bang for the buck?

I found this article which describes a little bit about swtor production... didn't read all of it yet tho.

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2012/01/20/star-wars-the-old-republic-the-story-behind-a-galactic-gamble/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=63378#/0

here's another one about production costs but I'm not really sure what's its entire point is since I stopped reading at half (my eyes burn already from too much googling ) )

http://www.sooperarticles.com/gaming-articles/computer-games-articles/high-production-cost-swtor-makes-wonderful-855143.html

and this is an old article I found back in the days from that guy who got fired

http://www.starwarsmmolevelingguide.com/swtor-a-300-million-failure/

I guess he was right

davestr1zl

Originally posted by Bardus

Originally posted by Clywd
Rift costed 50 millions, as trion said. Half of it was spent for marketing. I think, marketing and management are the top two cost centers for tor as well.

There we go, have our 1st comparison.

Now regardless of marketing or any other excuse anyone can think of. How does TOR and Rift compare in features and content at launch since that Rift figure is development cost right?

You can compare features, content and whatever else you want all day long but if you're doing so to determine 'bang for buck' (im assuming thats what you're attemping to do? as trying to determine the 'better game' via its features is even more frivolous than this thread already is) then its literally impossible as no one knows how much any game cost and what exactly the development money went towards (marketing, production, licencing etc).

If you'd like I can list 10 different games and 10 different figures for development costs that I've pulled out of thin air to give you a whole lot of comparing to do, and they'll likely be as accurate as any other numbers people will give you here.

Ahnog

Originally posted by SuperDonk

There is probably only a handful of people at EA that really know what the cost of making SWTOR was. What we do know is they spent a lot, and don't realy have anything to show for it.

This is an exageration right? The game has great classes with good balance. The leveling up process is great. The crafting is great. The pvp is great. The franchise is great.

There are problems, but all games have problems. This one has fewer problems than most. The two biggest problems is low server populations and limited end game pve opportunities. All are being worked on.

Ahnog

I don't know what the game cost, but it made a lot of money out the gate. 2.2 million boxed versions were sold world wide ($129 million); An unknown number of downloaded copies were sold. The subscriptions were 1.7 million for the first month which addes $27.1 million. Not a bad haul for the first month of the game.

The disgruntaled employee who was fired said it would be a 300 million dollar development cost.  When you consider what the license must have cost, the cost of development I'll bet was more like 150 million.

korent1991

Originally posted by Ahnog

Originally posted by SuperDonk

There is probably only a handful of people at EA that really know what the cost of making SWTOR was. What we do know is they spent a lot, and don't realy have anything to show for it.

This is an exageration right? The game has great classes with good balance. The leveling up process is great. The crafting is great. The pvp is great. The franchise is great.

There are problems, but all games have problems. This one has fewer problems than most. The two biggest problems is low server populations and limited end game pve opportunities. All are being worked on.

SuperDonk said the painful truth for SWTOR supporters...

If 4 classes which 2 of them aren't that different from eachother is great I don't know what I should say about games with 6 or more unique classes

Of those 4 classes 2 are OP in PVP and not balaced at all... Balanced classes are those where you can play any class and still not be 3 hitted by this 1 class (or 2) which you can't do shit against because your class has nothing good to counter their attacks...

PVP great - lol... SWTOR PVP is so bad that they decided to shut down the only part of it which could've been great (if it was fixed in time [read - in beta, if EA hasn't been so hungry for bucks] rather than shutten down now)...

Crafting is so pointless that there's not even a good use of it later.

The only good thing about it is the franchise. The only thing which EA can't actually influence and screw it over.

If 1 of the biggest problems is low population, well that speaks for itself.

Rocketeer

Originally posted by Ahnog

Originally posted by SuperDonk

There is probably only a handful of people at EA that really know what the cost of making SWTOR was. What we do know is they spent a lot, and don't realy have anything to show for it.

This is an exageration right? The game has great classes with good balance. The leveling up process is great. The crafting is great. The pvp is great. The franchise is great.

There are problems, but all games have problems. This one has fewer problems than most. The two biggest problems is low server populations and limited end game pve opportunities. All are being worked on.

So basically the problem is nobody wants to play their game? Thats one fricking big problem if you ask me.

Bardus

Originally posted by Ahnog

I don't know what the game cost, but it made a lot of money out the gate. 2.2 million boxed versions were sold world wide ($129 million); An unknown number of downloaded copies were sold. The subscriptions were 1.7 million for the first month which addes $27.1 million. Not a bad haul for the first month of the game.

The disgruntaled employee who was fired said it would be a 300 million dollar development cost.  When you consider what the license must have cost, the cost of development I'll bet was more like 150 million.

And Lucas Arts didn't want any of that, and the boxes didn't cost anything to print, and they don't have to pay the light bill or salaries, or taxes or many many other things? All profit right?

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Beyorn

I know this isnt exactly on topic but do you think with it doing poorly (or at least up to their expectations) are we looking at a potential NGE again?

I may have needed to start my own thread

Rocketeer

Originally posted by Beyorn

I know this isnt exactly on topic but do you think with it doing poorly (or at least up to their expectations) are we looking at a potential NGE again?

I may have needed to start my own thread

Wrong company im afraid. Take a look at WHO to see the bright future ahead.

smh_alot

iirc, WoW had a development cost of 50-60 million dollars, AoC around 40 million dollars and Rift 50 million dollars. WAR had something like that as well from what I recall. The 200 million dollars doesn't have an official source, but was an unconfirmed thirdparty quote that outside of the person mentioning it had no other parties substantiating it. So the figure is kinda iffy and on the level of thirdparty speculations.

As for where the money went, I can that VO/cinematic cutscenes add like 10-20m dollar (purely personal guessing), any more I'd be sceptic about, GW2 uses a humongous amount of VO and sounds (like 100h), so that'd mean that GW2 would have such a high cost for it as well, which I doubt. TSW uses quite the amount of cutscenes and VO as well, if it was all so humongously expensive I don't see them having been able to implement it.

As for the rest, the usual costs that an AAA MMORPG has. I think world design in itself gobbles up quite some resources usually. The total landmass of all TOR planets together is closer to the size of a WoW and LotrO than a Rift, CO or AoC, which were pretty small worlds. Brad McQuaid once said that they had to forget about creating the 3rd continent, because designing the first 2 continents with all the content on it took so much resources and time that they had 1 year delay already. So the 3rd continent ended up being a string of islands. But it shows that designing the world in detail, especially large ones, can take a lot of resources, financially and man-years.

I heard somewhere that creating EQ took about 20 million dollars. If people have (official) numbers of any of those MMO's or other ones, I'm curious to know

Karahandras

Originally posted by Bardus

Originally posted by Ahnog

I don't know what the game cost, but it made a lot of money out the gate. 2.2 million boxed versions were sold world wide ($129 million); An unknown number of downloaded copies were sold. The subscriptions were 1.7 million for the first month which addes $27.1 millio1st month is free(comes with the game). Not a bad haul for the first month of the game.

The disgruntaled employee who was fired said it would be a 300 million dollar development cost.  When you consider what the license must have cost, the cost of development I'll bet was more like 150 million.

And Lucas Arts didn't want any of that, and the boxes didn't cost anything to print, and they don't have to pay the light bill or salaries, or taxes or many many other things? All profit right?

You forgot marketing, which would have been quite a high bill in this case.

I.m guessing but probably around th 20% mark(give or take) went back to clearing the dev costs from box sales.  Not sure how they'd divvy up the monthly subs though.

Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Karahandras

Originally posted by Bardus

Originally posted by Ahnog

I don't know what the game cost, but it made a lot of money out the gate. 2.2 million boxed versions were sold world wide ($129 million); An unknown number of downloaded copies were sold. The subscriptions were 1.7 million for the first month which addes $27.1 millio1st month is free(comes with the game). Not a bad haul for the first month of the game.

The disgruntaled employee who was fired said it would be a 300 million dollar development cost.  When you consider what the license must have cost, the cost of development I'll bet was more like 150 million.

And Lucas Arts didn't want any of that, and the boxes didn't cost anything to print, and they don't have to pay the light bill or salaries, or taxes or many many other things? All profit right?

You forgot marketing, which would have been quite a high bill in this case.

I.m guessing but probably around th 20% mark(give or take) went back to clearing the dev costs from box sales.  Not sure how they'd divvy up the monthly subs though.

 Very high actually. I remember when DA came out one of the BW devs spoke about marketing costs. It was rather interesting really because he was so honest and forthcoming about it. Essentially if I remember correctly least for DA that was the bulk of their expenditure was on marketing believe it or not. I should have kept the whole discussion because it is one of the few times I have seen someone be so forthright and detailed about those types of things simply in a forum talking about the subject matter. It was quite the eye opener.

...and considering how much heavier this game was marketed god knows what the overall price figure it was before the game even launched.