Yes, it's beta and everyone knows that. It doesn't mean that people can't express their likes or dislikes about the current(?) build, even if it might change in the end.
Except many people are not stating their opinion as wait and see... They are making the assumption that these changes are set in stone and the game is ruined/lessened. Even more absurd is that the changes make it stikingly like WOW which is not even close to true.
So while people have the right to express their opinions... Others have a right to point out when those opinions are exagerated, assumption, and hyperbole. There is a lot of QQing in this thread when the only information on the changes we have to go on is a short video and poor screen caps. Forming an opinion on so little information stinks of agenda or drama more than any impact the changes will have on the game. Especially when none of us know if these changes will make it into the game.
Actually the video shows quite alot of info on the current implementation of tiers if you pay attention (doubt you even watched it as you seem to consider 2hrs "short"), like you need 5 first tier skills to open the second tier of skills, then you need to unlock 5 second tier skills to open the 3rd tier and so on. And from what i could tell, 1st tier would be of skill that cost 1-2 pts, 2nd tier being the ones that cost 3-5ish and 3rd being the most expensive ones.
Also it shows exactly what traits you can get at the 1st, 2nd and 3rd tier of traits, they're numbered in roman numerals I-XII, first tier being I-VI (1-6), second tier being I-X (1-10) and the third being all 12 traits.
Actually the video shows quite alot of info on the current implementation of tiers if you pay attention (doubt you even watched it as you seem to consider 2hrs "short"), like you need 5 first tier skills to open the second tier of skills, then you need to unlock 5 second tier skills to open the 3rd tier and so on. And from what i could tell, 1st tier would be of skill that cost 1-2 pts, 2nd tier being the ones that cost 3-5ish and 3rd being the most expensive ones.
Also it shows exactly what traits you can get at the 1st, 2nd and 3rd tier of traits, they're numbered in roman numerals I-XII, first tier being I-VI (1-6), second tier being I-X (1-10) and the third being all 12 traits.
Lets break this down shall we... After all there is a lot of QQing going on without any real in depth look at what MIGHT be a restriction of options.
Lets first premise this whole conversation with the fact that NONE of these changes have been officially slated to go live at release. As such everything we knew and know about the skill and trait system has been subject to change and frankly the roman numerals indicated changes have been in development for an extended time and that is all we are seeing.
Now on to the actual changes... The skills frankly are a non-issue. Anyone stating otherwise is being overly dramatic. Currently what we know is that skill points have to be invested in cheaper skills before being able to gain higher cost ones. However considering the current number of skill point challenges and the ones being added in WvW... Most skill combinations can be openned by level 40 (1/2 way to max level). There currently is no other restictions that we know of so please elaborate in detail why this change is such a big deal?
Now on to the trait system which by a previous post you already dismissed as not a big issue. With 80 points up to 46 traits out of 70 can be availible. Now there will be certain combinations that will not be availible, but that is not a bad thing. Certain combinations build on each other to the point of being game breaking. We saw some of those combinations in BWE1 in structured PvP. Warrior and Thief both had some extreme builds which no other classes could even remotely come close to in spike dmg. These other classes did not balance by having high defensive builds or counter builds. Now there was only two options... either gut the skills themselves or put in a system that removes the ability to make extremely OP builds. Either way there was going to be QQing. Saying the other way would be better is not supported given the amount of fluctuation and community anger that derived from making those types of changes in GW1.
So unless you have a coherent intelligent argument based on more than a few minutes of footage even though the entire video was 2 hours I will call a spade a spade. Complaining and over dramatizing the changes is frankly unnecessary. Thanks for being completely disengenuous and misleading with the 2 hour video shot though.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Where is the option for I dont care. You can get all the skills in the end anyways. So I will play it as its delt.
There was a reply stating that the topic starter doesn't care about people who don't care, which is why he didn't set that up as an option.
He may feel that way but it still valid. Having it the way it is now or the way it was before makes almost no differance. You can get all the skills. So why the fuss? May take an extra few days of play to get to the skills you want but ANet needs to keep ya playing somehow. Its a small grind and I dont think ANet is asking too much of its players. I plan on getting all the skills on my chars any ways. Thats why I dont care and it should be in the poll. Because its not worth QQ about. Thats what this thread is about, pure QQ.
Actually the video shows quite alot of info on the current implementation of tiers if you pay attention (doubt you even watched it as you seem to consider 2hrs "short"), like you need 5 first tier skills to open the second tier of skills, then you need to unlock 5 second tier skills to open the 3rd tier and so on. And from what i could tell, 1st tier would be of skill that cost 1-2 pts, 2nd tier being the ones that cost 3-5ish and 3rd being the most expensive ones.
Also it shows exactly what traits you can get at the 1st, 2nd and 3rd tier of traits, they're numbered in roman numerals I-XII, first tier being I-VI (1-6), second tier being I-X (1-10) and the third being all 12 traits.
Lets break this down shall we... After all there is a lot of QQing going on without any real in depth look at what MIGHT be a restriction of options.
Lets first premise this whole conversation with the fact that NONE of these changes have been officially slated to go live at release. As such everything we knew and know about the skill and trait system has been subject to change and frankly the roman numerals indicated these changes have been in development for an extended time.
Now on to the actual changes... The skills frankly are a none issue. Anyone stating otherwise is being overly dramatic. Currently what we know is that skill points have to be invested in cheaper skills before being able to gain higher cost ones. However considering the current number of skill point challenges and the ones being added in WvW... Most skill combinations can be openned by level 40 (1/2 way to max level). There currently is no other restictions that we know of so please elaborate in detail why this change is such a big deal?
Now on to the trait system which by a previous post you already dismissed as not a big issue. With 80 points up to 46 traits out of 70 can be availible. Now there will be certain combinations that will not be availible, but that is not a bad thing. Certain combinations build on each other to the point of being game breaking. We saw some of those combinations in BWE1 in structured PvP. Warrior and Thief both had some extreme builds which no other classes could even remotely come close to in spike dmg. These other classes did not balance by having high defensive builds or counter builds. Now there was only two options... either gut the skills themselves or put in a system that removes the ability to make extremely OP builds. Either way there was going to be QQing. Saying the other way would be better is not supported given the amount of fluctuation and community anger that derived from making those types of changes in GW1.
So unless you have a coherent intelligent argument based on more than a few minutes of footage even though the entire video was 2 hours I will call a spade a spade. Complaining and over dramatizing the changes is frankly unnecessary. Thanks for being completely disengenuous and misleading with the 2 hour video shot though.
Here is the deal to me. And no, not blindly panicking..I'm expressing a legitimate concern for what COULD go wrong with this setup, and hoping it doesn't. We'll see Friday.
There are a number of skills in any given class that just are not useful for many players, depending on playstyle, weapon choice, and pve/pvp preference. Being forced to take ANY skill that you cannot actually get use out of just to be able to get to the ones you can is abhorrent. It's something that games like WoW have been doing for too long.
That's not to say Anet IS doing that. We won't know until we can see ALL the trees and their skill arrangegements Friday. The big fear is that this change smakcs of an attempt to appeal to a crowd more used to tradtional MMOs by giving them more clear progression and structure. That in itself is fine; but if it leads to MORE changes of the like, it could ruin much of what a lot of the fans of this game (myself included) really like about it.
Again, I'm not saying anything is set in stone. I'm well aware of what a beta is. Hell, it could be changed a year after the game goes live and that's STILL not set in stone. Change is the nature of MMOs. But better to express my concerns NOW, so my feedback can (hopefully) contribute to what choices the devs make in the future.
Here is the deal to me. And no, not blindly panicking..I'm expressing a legitimate concern for what COULD go wrong with this setup, and hoping it doesn't. We'll see Friday.
There are a number of skills in any given class that just are not useful for many players, depending on playstyle, weapon choice, and pve/pvp preference. Being forced to take ANY skill that you cannot actually get use out of just to be able to get to the ones you can is abhorrent. It's something that games like WoW have been doing for too long.
That's not to say Anet IS doing that. We won't know until we can see ALL the trees and their skill arrangegements Friday. The big fear is that this change smakcs of an attempt to appeal to a crowd more used to tradtional MMOs by giving them more clear progression and structure. That in itself is fine; but if it leads to MORE changes of the like, it could ruin much of what a lot of the fans of this game (myself included) really like about it.
Again, I'm not saying anything is set in stone. I'm well aware of what a beta is. Hell, it could be changed a year after the game goes live and that's STILL not set in stone. Change is the nature of MMOs. But better to express my concerns NOW, so my feedback can (hopefully) contribute to what choices the devs make in the future.
Again I could see that as a legitimate concern if they forced you to USE said skills. If you could not get all of the skills and use any combination of those skills... fine legitimate complaint. That from everything we have seen, read, and heard is not the case. The only thing the skill tiers do is slow the progression to the more powerful skills... not force you to use skills you don't want. Right now there easily appears to be more skill points availible than what you can spend on skills. After 40 a character should really have no issues with what they want to use if the player has spent the time getting the skill points.
I would also like to point out that the skills are not in "trees"... they are in tiers which is a very distinct different in function. Currently skill acquisition works nothing like WOW or clones of said game. The traits function more like that, but the changes in the video DID NOT CHANGE THAT ASPECT AT ALL, All they did was ensure a character invests more points to get the better traits which frankly appears to have been their intent all along considering how the trait system was structured since being announced.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Here is the deal to me. And no, not blindly panicking..I'm expressing a legitimate concern for what COULD go wrong with this setup, and hoping it doesn't. We'll see Friday.
There are a number of skills in any given class that just are not useful for many players, depending on playstyle, weapon choice, and pve/pvp preference. Being forced to take ANY skill that you cannot actually get use out of just to be able to get to the ones you can is abhorrent. It's something that games like WoW have been doing for too long.
That's not to say Anet IS doing that. We won't know until we can see ALL the trees and their skill arrangegements Friday. The big fear is that this change smakcs of an attempt to appeal to a crowd more used to tradtional MMOs by giving them more clear progression and structure. That in itself is fine; but if it leads to MORE changes of the like, it could ruin much of what a lot of the fans of this game (myself included) really like about it.
Again, I'm not saying anything is set in stone. I'm well aware of what a beta is. Hell, it could be changed a year after the game goes live and that's STILL not set in stone. Change is the nature of MMOs. But better to express my concerns NOW, so my feedback can (hopefully) contribute to what choices the devs make in the future.
Again I could see that as a legitimate concern if they forced you to USE said skills. If you could not get all of the skills and use any combination of those skills... fine legitimate complaint. That from everything we have seen, read, and heard is not the case. The only thing the skill tiers do is slow the progression to the more powerful skills... not force you to use skills you don't want. Right now there easily appears to be more skill points availible than what you can spend on skills. After 40 a character should really have no issues with what they want to use if the player has spent the time getting the skill points.
I would also like to point out that the skills are not in "trees"... they are in tiers which is a very distinct different in function. Currently skill acquisition works nothing like WOW or clones of said game. The traits function more like that, but the changes in the video DID NOT CHANGE THAT ASPECT AT ALL, All they did was ensure a character invests more points to get the better traits which frankly appears to have been their intent all along considering how the trait system was structured since being announced.
I'd like to ask you for a favor. I feel as though you're stressing certain parts of what people, myself included, are saying to extremes. I'm not saying "The sky is falling, they're turning this into wow, omg help!" Please keep that in mind.
However, view this potential (note that word) case. I, pre BWE 2, hypothetically develop an awesone skill build that uses all the skill points available, but focuses largely on 5+ point skills. In BWE< I'm going to have to buy a bunch more 1-4 point skills than I did, giving me less skill points to spend on the skills I want. Meaning I will have to forgot skills I intend to use for skills I did not.
I'm aware there's 220-something skill points in game, or some such number. I'm also pretty sure that even if you get all the points, you can't buy every skill (If you could it would make buying skills at all rather pointless I think). So that said, making me take a single skill I didn't want or ever plan to use, even though I don't HAVE to use it or ever put it on my bar, potentially restricts me from acquiring all the skills I want. There was already a limiter in place for this; namely the skill points and finite number thereof. Adding further limiters is viewed as an annoying restriction.
Also, again, adding this feels like an attempt at adding systems similar enough to traditional MMO standard fair to help avoid alienating folks who were probably intimidated by the broader choice spectrum in this game. It makes sense to gate traits, since there were no control over them and someone could get a very powerful trait with the same ease they could get a very simple one. This was never so with skills and seems redundant for them.
Again, all hypothetical. I've never crunched the numbers of skill points avaialbe vs what I want to buy; also, YMMV based on your choices in gameplay, weapons, etc. Some players may never notice this because the builds they want mesh into it perfectly. Some may find limits they did not have before. And once more, until I can sit down with my characters on friday and see what skills are in what tiers, there's no way of knowing how limited I am, or how much "fluff" (if any) I am forced to take.
But in the mean time, I'm going to express the concern that forcing me to spend x points on skills that I may not want before I can get to skills I do want is aggravating. I don't care if there's more than enough points or not. It's just bad design.
I'd like to ask you for a favor. I feel as though you're stressing certain parts of what people, myself included, are saying to extremes. I'm not saying "The sky is falling, they're turning this into wow, omg help!" Please keep that in mind.
Considering the number of times WOW skill trees have been mentioned in this thread and others... yes, it is exactly that. Why mention WOW at all in your response if you do not believe they are taking a development path towards that style of skill system? You can't say things like; It's something that games like WoW have been doing for too long. then claim you were not implying they are turning the game WOWesque.
However, view this potential (note that word) case. I, pre BWE 2, hypothetically develop an awesone skill build that uses all the skill points available, but focuses largely on 5+ point skills. In BWE< I'm going to have to buy a bunch more 1-4 point skills than I did, giving me less skill points to spend on the skills I want. Meaning I will have to forgot skills I intend to use for skills I did not.
From the screens we all have access to the tier 1 skills all look to be 1 pt each (maybe some 2pt will be thrown in for other classes but that is a complete unknown right now)... So your first tier will cost you a whole 5 pts... out of at the very least 220 SP... Now lets say the tier 2 cost five times as much on average (unlikely)... you have to spend another 25 points to get to the goal tier for your build... that still gives you 190 pts to spend on 5 skills. That works out to 38 pts a skill... now one of those skills will be healing which none cost more than 4 pts. So now you have 186 to spend on 4 skills or an average of 46.5 pts PER SKILL. Name ANY skill in the game that costs that much... just one. So even if there are not enough skill pts to be gained compaired to the number needed (which is untrue currently BTW... do the math) you will be able to easily... EASILY purchase top tier skills for at least 2 builds if not more. The math does not lie... perhaps you should do more research before making the assumptions you laid out in your response. They are also adding more skill challenges which means there will be even more pts for skills.
I'm aware there's 220-something skill points in game, or some such number. I'm also pretty sure that even if you get all the points, you can't buy every skill (If you could it would make buying skills at all rather pointless I think). So that said, making me take a single skill I didn't want or ever plan to use, even though I don't HAVE to use it or ever put it on my bar, potentially restricts me from acquiring all the skills I want. There was already a limiter in place for this; namely the skill points and finite number thereof. Adding further limiters is viewed as an annoying restriction.
You are wrong... with the current skills in the game there are enough points to buy all the skills on a character. Your very response is exactly what I have been talking about... You are assuming instead of doing some simple research... It is pretty easy to add up all the pts needed to buy the current skills in the game. Assumptions lead to incorrect conclusions which leads to misinformation... See your whole post as an example.
Also, again, adding this feels like an attempt at adding systems similar enough to traditional MMO standard fair to help avoid alienating folks who were probably intimidated by the broader choice spectrum in this game. It makes sense to gate traits, since there were no control over them and someone could get a very powerful trait with the same ease they could get a very simple one. This was never so with skills and seems redundant for them.
Sorry name one game this tiered system and ingame skill point acquisition is similar to. You have already shown that your assumptions above are wrong. You are basing your feelings on misinformed conclusions.
Again, all hypothetical. I've never crunched the numbers of skill points avaialbe vs what I want to buy; also, YMMV based on your choices in gameplay, weapons, etc. Some players may never notice this because the builds they want mesh into it perfectly. Some may find limits they did not have before. And once more, until I can sit down with my characters on friday and see what skills are in what tiers, there's no way of knowing how limited I am, or how much "fluff" (if any) I am forced to take.
Right there... in red... That was the whole point of my response. That is the issue I take with many responses in this thread. QQing over hypotheticals does NOTHING constructive to better the game for ANYONE. If you can't take the time to crunch the numbers how can you complain about something?
But in the mean time, I'm going to express the concern that forcing me to spend x points on skills that I may not want before I can get to skills I do want is aggravating. I don't care if there's more than enough points or not. It's just bad design.
How can you be concerned over something you freely admit to not have taken the time to learn about to start with? Honestly... How is that constructive in any way?
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Where is the option for I dont care. You can get all the skills in the end anyways. So I will play it as its delt.
There was a reply stating that the topic starter doesn't care about people who don't care, which is why he didn't set that up as an option.
That is correct, i don't care if you don't care, so that why it ain't there as an option, BUT you can answer "i like em both" since the tiers are obviously coming into the game, thusly that answer would be as "i don't care"
To atziluth
My reply to yours was just to show that there is alot more info than you let show in the post i replied to, it wasn't an argument or QQ and i doubt they do such big changes to "maybe" use them, it is pretty obvious the tiers are here to stay.
This thread is funny... really. You do realize people that you are saying I like / I don't like to a system you know nearly nothing about.
We actually don't know the new trait list (because yes there is going to be an update and traits are going to be swapped, removed and replaced), so saying restriction will be bad for X reasons when you don't know the extend of it is pointless... This thread got here way too soon.
By the way this thread needs a I don't care vote (I don't care if the OP doesn't care, you can't make an efficient poll if you can't count white votes...).
Originally posted by sajah This thread is funny... really. You do realize people that you are saying I like / I don't like to a system you know nearly nothing about.
I really don't understand this argument. One doesn't need to play a system to know how it works or what the consequences are.
Originally posted by sajah This thread is funny... really. You do realize people that you are saying I like / I don't like to a system you know nearly nothing about.
I really don't understand this argument. One doesn't need to play a system to know how it works or what the consequences are.
It's very simple really. Make some builds now using one of the various skill calculators out there. Builds that are actually playable/useful not completely random. Then after they put tiers in the 2nd BWE try making the same builds using the tier system. If you manage to create all those builds then there is no problem with the tiers.
They limit our "total" builds (both good and worthless) but not our "important" builds. This requires actual playtesting to figure out. People don't (or shouldn't anyway) create their builds randomly, having more choices doesn't mean having more viable builds, not all skill/trait combinations lead to viable builds.
So unless we can check the builds we can make with the new system and compare to the "old" ones noone can be sure if this change helps or not. I really hope they thought carefully before splitting skills/traits into tiers.....
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Comments
Actually the video shows quite alot of info on the current implementation of tiers if you pay attention (doubt you even watched it as you seem to consider 2hrs "short"), like you need 5 first tier skills to open the second tier of skills, then you need to unlock 5 second tier skills to open the 3rd tier and so on. And from what i could tell, 1st tier would be of skill that cost 1-2 pts, 2nd tier being the ones that cost 3-5ish and 3rd being the most expensive ones.
Also it shows exactly what traits you can get at the 1st, 2nd and 3rd tier of traits, they're numbered in roman numerals I-XII, first tier being I-VI (1-6), second tier being I-X (1-10) and the third being all 12 traits.
http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en&code=3g2ag0kmkskql2l870kaa0uboccd6knkslglh <-- use the character builder to see your classes traits etc. (and for example, that build on the link is no longer possible with the tiers, traitwise.)
Where is the option for I dont care. You can get all the skills in the end anyways. So I will play it as its delt.
There was a reply stating that the topic starter doesn't care about people who don't care, which is why he didn't set that up as an option.
Lets break this down shall we... After all there is a lot of QQing going on without any real in depth look at what MIGHT be a restriction of options.
Lets first premise this whole conversation with the fact that NONE of these changes have been officially slated to go live at release. As such everything we knew and know about the skill and trait system has been subject to change and frankly the roman numerals indicated changes have been in development for an extended time and that is all we are seeing.
Now on to the actual changes... The skills frankly are a non-issue. Anyone stating otherwise is being overly dramatic. Currently what we know is that skill points have to be invested in cheaper skills before being able to gain higher cost ones. However considering the current number of skill point challenges and the ones being added in WvW... Most skill combinations can be openned by level 40 (1/2 way to max level). There currently is no other restictions that we know of so please elaborate in detail why this change is such a big deal?
Now on to the trait system which by a previous post you already dismissed as not a big issue. With 80 points up to 46 traits out of 70 can be availible. Now there will be certain combinations that will not be availible, but that is not a bad thing. Certain combinations build on each other to the point of being game breaking. We saw some of those combinations in BWE1 in structured PvP. Warrior and Thief both had some extreme builds which no other classes could even remotely come close to in spike dmg. These other classes did not balance by having high defensive builds or counter builds. Now there was only two options... either gut the skills themselves or put in a system that removes the ability to make extremely OP builds. Either way there was going to be QQing. Saying the other way would be better is not supported given the amount of fluctuation and community anger that derived from making those types of changes in GW1.
So unless you have a coherent intelligent argument based on more than a few minutes of footage even though the entire video was 2 hours I will call a spade a spade. Complaining and over dramatizing the changes is frankly unnecessary. Thanks for being completely disengenuous and misleading with the 2 hour video shot though.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
He may feel that way but it still valid. Having it the way it is now or the way it was before makes almost no differance. You can get all the skills. So why the fuss? May take an extra few days of play to get to the skills you want but ANet needs to keep ya playing somehow. Its a small grind and I dont think ANet is asking too much of its players. I plan on getting all the skills on my chars any ways. Thats why I dont care and it should be in the poll. Because its not worth QQ about. Thats what this thread is about, pure QQ.
Here is the deal to me. And no, not blindly panicking..I'm expressing a legitimate concern for what COULD go wrong with this setup, and hoping it doesn't. We'll see Friday.
There are a number of skills in any given class that just are not useful for many players, depending on playstyle, weapon choice, and pve/pvp preference. Being forced to take ANY skill that you cannot actually get use out of just to be able to get to the ones you can is abhorrent. It's something that games like WoW have been doing for too long.
That's not to say Anet IS doing that. We won't know until we can see ALL the trees and their skill arrangegements Friday. The big fear is that this change smakcs of an attempt to appeal to a crowd more used to tradtional MMOs by giving them more clear progression and structure. That in itself is fine; but if it leads to MORE changes of the like, it could ruin much of what a lot of the fans of this game (myself included) really like about it.
Again, I'm not saying anything is set in stone. I'm well aware of what a beta is. Hell, it could be changed a year after the game goes live and that's STILL not set in stone. Change is the nature of MMOs. But better to express my concerns NOW, so my feedback can (hopefully) contribute to what choices the devs make in the future.
Again I could see that as a legitimate concern if they forced you to USE said skills. If you could not get all of the skills and use any combination of those skills... fine legitimate complaint. That from everything we have seen, read, and heard is not the case. The only thing the skill tiers do is slow the progression to the more powerful skills... not force you to use skills you don't want. Right now there easily appears to be more skill points availible than what you can spend on skills. After 40 a character should really have no issues with what they want to use if the player has spent the time getting the skill points.
I would also like to point out that the skills are not in "trees"... they are in tiers which is a very distinct different in function. Currently skill acquisition works nothing like WOW or clones of said game. The traits function more like that, but the changes in the video DID NOT CHANGE THAT ASPECT AT ALL, All they did was ensure a character invests more points to get the better traits which frankly appears to have been their intent all along considering how the trait system was structured since being announced.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I'd like to ask you for a favor. I feel as though you're stressing certain parts of what people, myself included, are saying to extremes. I'm not saying "The sky is falling, they're turning this into wow, omg help!" Please keep that in mind.
However, view this potential (note that word) case. I, pre BWE 2, hypothetically develop an awesone skill build that uses all the skill points available, but focuses largely on 5+ point skills. In BWE< I'm going to have to buy a bunch more 1-4 point skills than I did, giving me less skill points to spend on the skills I want. Meaning I will have to forgot skills I intend to use for skills I did not.
I'm aware there's 220-something skill points in game, or some such number. I'm also pretty sure that even if you get all the points, you can't buy every skill (If you could it would make buying skills at all rather pointless I think). So that said, making me take a single skill I didn't want or ever plan to use, even though I don't HAVE to use it or ever put it on my bar, potentially restricts me from acquiring all the skills I want. There was already a limiter in place for this; namely the skill points and finite number thereof. Adding further limiters is viewed as an annoying restriction.
Also, again, adding this feels like an attempt at adding systems similar enough to traditional MMO standard fair to help avoid alienating folks who were probably intimidated by the broader choice spectrum in this game. It makes sense to gate traits, since there were no control over them and someone could get a very powerful trait with the same ease they could get a very simple one. This was never so with skills and seems redundant for them.
Again, all hypothetical. I've never crunched the numbers of skill points avaialbe vs what I want to buy; also, YMMV based on your choices in gameplay, weapons, etc. Some players may never notice this because the builds they want mesh into it perfectly. Some may find limits they did not have before. And once more, until I can sit down with my characters on friday and see what skills are in what tiers, there's no way of knowing how limited I am, or how much "fluff" (if any) I am forced to take.
But in the mean time, I'm going to express the concern that forcing me to spend x points on skills that I may not want before I can get to skills I do want is aggravating. I don't care if there's more than enough points or not. It's just bad design.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
That is correct, i don't care if you don't care, so that why it ain't there as an option, BUT you can answer "i like em both" since the tiers are obviously coming into the game, thusly that answer would be as "i don't care"
To atziluth
My reply to yours was just to show that there is alot more info than you let show in the post i replied to, it wasn't an argument or QQ and i doubt they do such big changes to "maybe" use them, it is pretty obvious the tiers are here to stay.
We actually don't know the new trait list (because yes there is going to be an update and traits are going to be swapped, removed and replaced), so saying restriction will be bad for X reasons when you don't know the extend of it is pointless... This thread got here way too soon.
By the way this thread needs a I don't care vote (I don't care if the OP doesn't care, you can't make an efficient poll if you can't count white votes...).
I really don't understand this argument. One doesn't need to play a system to know how it works or what the consequences are.
It's very simple really. Make some builds now using one of the various skill calculators out there. Builds that are actually playable/useful not completely random. Then after they put tiers in the 2nd BWE try making the same builds using the tier system. If you manage to create all those builds then there is no problem with the tiers.
They limit our "total" builds (both good and worthless) but not our "important" builds. This requires actual playtesting to figure out. People don't (or shouldn't anyway) create their builds randomly, having more choices doesn't mean having more viable builds, not all skill/trait combinations lead to viable builds.
So unless we can check the builds we can make with the new system and compare to the "old" ones noone can be sure if this change helps or not. I really hope they thought carefully before splitting skills/traits into tiers.....
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums