If they cant make it on there own, the game will never make it.
MMO fans complain repeatedly about games not willing to take a chance, but the reality is that it generally takes smaller developers to be willing to take those changes. Because publishers generally want a safe bet. Then when innovative indie products come out they complain that they are not polished enough or have too many bugs. The great thing about Kickstarter is it helps to level some of that field. Indie titles will still have a much smaller budget than published titles. But things like Kicktarter help level the field.
Bottom line is that no game gets made on its own. Unless you have a single filthy rich developer fronting the entire bill. That hasn't happened since what? Horizons? The vast majority of MMOs are published. When a development studio signs on with a publisher they give up of their rights. They generally give up some creative control. And often they are forced out the door before they are ready because publishers have invested in marketing and want to take advantage of it. Those are the harsh realities of game development.
With Repop we have the choice. Deal with a publisher, get an advance. Finish the game on that while giving up the lion's share of royalties and a lot of control. Self-publish on a shoestring budget, and release an unpolished product. Or Kickstart and probably go somewhere in between the two financial wise, while retaining full control fo the game. The Kickstarter route is the best for the company, and it's the best for the players.
If someone doesn't feel safe with pledging to an indie development studio, that's perfectly understandable. But the quote above is the type of logic that has allowed publisher's to exploit development studios for years. It's the reason that most games never see a penny of royalties, and it's the reason that many mmos are rushed to market well before they are ready.
If they cant make it on there own, the game will never make it.
MMO fans complain repeatedly about games not willing to take a chance, but the reality is that it generally takes smaller developers to be willing to take those changes. Because publishers generally want a safe bet. Then when innovative indie products come out they complain that they are not polished enough or have too many bugs. The great thing about Kickstarter is it helps to level some of that field. Indie titles will still have a much smaller budget than published titles. But things like Kicktarter help level the field.
Bottom line is that no game gets made on its own. Unless you have a single filthy rich developer fronting the entire bill. That hasn't happened since what? Horizons? The vast majority of MMOs are published. When a development studio signs on with a publisher they give up of their rights. They generally give up some creative control. And often they are forced out the door before they are ready because publishers have invested in marketing and want to take advantage of it. Those are the harsh realities of game development.
With Repop we have the choice. Deal with a publisher, get an advance. Finish the game on that while giving up the lion's share of royalties and a lot of control. Self-publish on a shoestring budget, and release an unpolished product. Or Kickstart and probably go somewhere in between the two financial wise, while retaining full control fo the game. The Kickstarter route is the best for the company, and it's the best for the players.
If someone doesn't feel safe with pledging to an indie development studio, that's perfectly understandable. But the quote above is the type of logic that has allowed publisher's to exploit development studios for years. It's the reason that most games never see a penny of royalties, and it's the reason that many mmos are rushed to market well before they are ready.
Originally posted by Caldrin awesome another game i cant wait for :)Looks like there are quite a few sandbox games on the way about bloody time..
I know it's bonkers,a total glut for years then Kickstarter quite literally kicks the life back into sandboxes not only that but wasteland2,Shadowrun2 new stuff like FTL,Dead State to Skyjacker,just goes to show game company executives really don't have a clue about what the people really want,or would spoil it just check out the shadowrun pitch brilliantly emphasise's my last point.
I made a donation hope you guys reach your goal which you will which there is plenty of time left just need to advertise some more on other sites get some more exposure.
Originally posted by firefly2003 I made a donation hope you guys reach your goal which you will which there is plenty of time left just need to advertise some more on other sites get some more exposure.
Originally posted by Norpan I put in a 100 bucks in this kickstarter. The game looks THAT good. Can't wait for it!!!
I'll say this.
The game doesn't look good by any measure. However, from what I've read they're very passionate about making a proper sandbox AAA MMO title. That's good enough for me to be honest. They have a strong groundwork, and I can only hope they build upon it as if each brick were laid in gold.
Although I won't be donating due to the excessive head-start program they have I wish them megalithic success!
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Originally posted by Norpan I put in a 100 bucks in this kickstarter. The game looks THAT good. Can't wait for it!!!
I'll say this.
The game doesn't look good by any measure. However, from what I've read they're very passionate about making a proper sandbox AAA MMO title. That's good enough for me to be honest. They have a strong groundwork, and I can only hope they build upon it as if each brick were laid in gold.
Although I won't be donating due to the excessive head-start program they have I wish them megalithic success!
Excessive head-start program?
Edit: Sorry forgot about your previous post and it is late and I am tired. Nevermind.
Originally posted by Norpan I put in a 100 bucks in this kickstarter. The game looks THAT good. Can't wait for it!!
The game doesn't look good by any measure. However, from what I've read they're very passionate about making a proper sandbox AAA MMO title. That's good enough for me to be honest. They have a strong groundwork, and I can only hope they build upon it as if each brick were laid in gold.
Doesnt look good by any measure? What game are you measuring it against? Have you watched any of the videos or just read about the game?
I admire you for the honesty, but I think you should really take another look.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Originally posted by PyrateLV Originally posted by FadedbombOriginally posted by NorpanI put in a 100 bucks in this kickstarter. The game looks THAT good. Can't wait for it!!
The game doesn't look good by any measure. However, from what I've read they're very passionate about making a proper sandbox AAA MMO title. That's good enough for me to be honest. They have a strong groundwork, and I can only hope they build upon it as if each brick were laid in gold.Doesnt look good by any measure? What game are you measuring it against? Have you watched any of the videos or just read about the game?
I admire you for the honesty, but I think you should really take another look.
Yep watch those vids again and please remember this is still about to hit Alpha and despite the graphics been pretty good anyway,Kickstarter should give the team more time on graphics and general art assets.
You cannot be serious can you? Dark and Light memories are comintg to mind right now.
Maybe another D&L. Maybe not.
How many have bought SWTOR for $50+ ? AoC/WAR/STO/DCUO/etc ?
Whats the difference between paying $50 for a game before release (with a chance that it might be a POS), and paying $50 after its finished and released (with a chance it might be a POS) ???
Pre orders you can get your money back one way or another normally ( not always). This is a donation so if it goes belly up then poof goes your money. And who is to say these folks are not taking the money and using it for something other than game development. Just a bit fishy to me.
Didnt say anything about Pre-Ordering. I said after release. I pay $50+ for a Digital DL from their store. Game sucks. My money just went poof. yeah I have the "digital version" of the game I can play any time, but it sucks so I basically lost my $$ on it.
I lost money on Tabula Rasa when it went poof. Same for E&B, MxO, AA. I dont want to say how much I had in SWG (2 accounts and 5+ years of subs)
Yeah A&B could be using the money for hookers and blow. What did Bioware use their $200+ MILLION on?? Not SWTOR thats for sure.
Im willing to risk $50+ on The Repop. They want to use it to get laid? Fine, just make sure you still make a great game!
Except that your money didn't go poof. You just made a bad investment decision. The purchase you made is in your hands. You just didn't like it.
The difference is that this is just a donation. It is like me coming up to you and telling you about this idea that I have... and then asking for money to get it going without offering you anything in return. I don't have to let you in on the product that I do or don't make. I don't even ever have to see your face again. I can go use your money on beer. You are making a blind decision. I'm glad people like you have money to just throw at people, because I certainly don't.
They had me until they said 'no skill cap'. That will just turn the game into a rediculous grind like Darkfall.
This has been a hot topic on our forum, and when we did a poll we found users to be pretty much split even between those who desire no skill caps and those who don't. We'll certainly monitor how things go in testing and make adjustments as necessary. But since it hasn't been covered here and most people who visit here don't frequent our forums a quick recap of what was stated there.
- Being able to master many skills prevents the need for alts. While some players enjoy alts, others only do it because they want to try something different, or because the game has run out of content for them. With our generation system we will always have content, and we don't want to force players to lose their name and reputation just to switch. That's the primary logic behind the lack of skills caps.We've balanced the game around them not existing though, you can't really compare a past experience in another game, since their mechanics are very different than ours.
We've seen this fail in multiple games. The one in recent in memory has to be Darkfall Online. It boasts a very similar uncapped skill system that allows you to master anything and everything. The logic behind it is flawed, and you are staring at proof, face to face with Aventurines product. Your name and reputation will go with any character you play, as people will know you. Forcing a skill cap makes new players want to play, because they feel that they can eventually catch the hardcore gamers. All you are doing is making the game far less attractive to new players. The skill gap will be insane and if the rest of the combat mechanics aren't carefully implemented, you will have hundreds(not thousands or millions) of players with the exact same, "jack of all trades" build with absolutely zero uniqueness to playstyle, nor appearance. Also, actually, having people create alts is a wonderful way to keep people playing your game. Your logic is again backwards. No one can create infinite content. You will follow the path of all the other developers who have claimed that they have enough content. Those hardcores will burn through everything interesting and get bored within a few months. You can only grind for so long before you can't stand it any more. But back to the biggest thing. Uncapped skills is the fastest way to being the next DFO or MO. Use some common sense here. No one can master everything. No one, nowhere, never in the history of all things that live, have lived, or will live has the ability to master everything. If it's capped, the penalties for doing everything better be incredibly severe. Still, I feel that if you actually want people playing your game, the best bet is to just implement a soft skill cap with huge diminishing returns if you go over. If not, you will get no new players unless it is AAA quality.
- There is a diminishing returns system. After you have mastered a line additional skill points only provide very small passive bonuses and no new abilities.
- Combat skills are weapon based. There is a penalty for switching weapons (it takes time). So while you can master many combat lines, that only gives you more options, it does not allow you to effectively play all of them at once. If you keep switching roles the penalty for weapon switching will render you less effective than someone who specializes in one.
- We have anti-grind measures to help detect when players are artificially grinding on themselves or on NPCs and slowing down the rate at which they gain skills if they do so. We'll be attempting to detect AFK grinders, but the system itself will automatically impose a severe penalty on how fast they gain skills when doing things like cycling a few abilities on their friends or having a mob that is just barely high enough to skill up on smack them repeatedly while they eat dinner.
- You can earn imprints from missions which can then be used to train a certain skill. This is intended to offset the time traveling when doing a mission and allow you to improve an area of your choosing, rather than making grinding the fastest way to go.
- Combat was designed to have a far more narrow gap between new and veteran players than most games. It's similar to UO in that aspect.
- Each crafting recipe has its own mastery level that only goes up from using that recipe, and has an affect on what things you can create. This is intended to reward specialty crafters.
- The crafting bottleneck is resources. You still need the resources to gain skill. If you master many trees, you need many more resources.
- Crafters generally just create alts in games that restrict their classes. They then mail themselves materials or use the shared bank. This bypasses that.
Again, creating alts for crafters is the way to go. Again, you shouldn't be able to master everything. You are destroying economy by allowing adventurers to craft whatever they want to. It doesn't matter if it takes time, you have already massively affected player economy in a negative way. This is another Darkfall failure. There need to be specialized crafters that cannot fight efficiently. Players need to have to go to these crafters for their wares. You are crushing a very important social economy aspect of the game by letting everyone create their own. Not having the skill points available to do everything is the much smarter choice.
- Being that we are skills based its trivial for us to just add a new tier if people start mastering many lines. While that one extra tier wouldn't be too difficult for a specialized person to master, it grows significantly if you are trying to master many.
- Abilities are not automatically earned. When you have the skill level you quality for them and they are listed as an earnable ability. The primary form of obtaining new abiliites is through the generated mission system. It's not easy to AFK grind through that.
- It takes a good while to max a single line. To master all of the skill lines, as well as gaining all their abilities and their mastery levels for crafting, it would be a huge grind, and you'd be gaining very little actual power over another player. Your main advantage would be that you can do more things.
I think a lot of people see uncapped skills and they think of having to grind for years to be competitive. That's simply not the case with Repop. Mastering a single tree would make you just as effective as that guy who has been playing for years and has mastered many. Their advantage over you would be that they can perform different roles, but they can only do one at a time, and they pay a penalty for switching between them.
Ideally, we don't really want players thinking of the grind at all. We just want them playing and having fun. This has been part of our skill design from the early going, and been given a ton of thought over the years.
I would need to know what the skill trees look like. I say this because let's say you have one player at 100 @ swords/maces/shields/parry/magic/bows/healing... and the new players has managed to max out their swords. Now let's say these two characters fight. The character who has grinded these other areas has a massive advantage. I'm just going of the explenation given above. Swords, shields, parry, healing and magic at max should wreck the other player using swords and lower levels of some of the others. Is parry lumped in with the weapon skill line? Is magic unable to be used while wielding a weapon or shield? If everyything is super simplified and restricted, then I can see how an uncapped system may work. My bet is that is won't be that simplified. My bet is that the above is flat our wrong and that grinder will be sigificantly more powerful. Maybe you guys have been thinking.. but the thinking seems very flawed. This sandbox approach must be changed. You're designing systems that are not needed and are too complex in most cases. You won't let go of age old sandbox core concepts that have never really worked. We will continue to see another sandbox with a few thousand subscriptions sully the UO name. We don't want a UO or SWG, we want a better one.
Ultimately, most gamers will play this off of first impressions. They won't dig into detailed explanations of how the systems work and why they work better. They will say, third person? Check. Balanced gameplay? Check. Personal property ownership? Check. Strong PvP and PvE? Check. A reason to keep playing? Check. Good graphics and UI? Check. Accessible and easy to learn? Check.
If they don't see that within five minutes of loading the game up for the first time. You've failed as a developer. You will never get the majority of those players back once they see a poor first impression.
@DAS: Eve also has uncapped skills and has been the most successful sandbox MMOG of all time. That having been said, your comparing projecting flaws in other games on us. This system was designed from the ground up with uncapped skills in mind. It's balanced around it. Becauase of the way our system works, many skills just gives more options, it doesn't significantly increase your character's power in combat compared to a player who has mastered just one offensive and defensive skill. They'll be just about as good on what they do as you are in what you do. The only difference is you'll have more things you can do, but not at the same time. Regarding alts, we consider them something that if players want to do they are more than welcome to. But we don't want to force them into it.
On the economy. Please do explain how being able to master many crafting lines as opposed to making an alt and mailing yourself the ingredients ruins the economy? I'd love to hear to it. Fact of the matter is there is zero difference between the two, except you don't have to level up a new character through combat just to get to the new crafting skills. But on top of that we've added extra things to encourage specialists. Things like the recipe mastery system which increases your potency with a certain recipe the more it is used. The mastery system and limited resources are the bottlenecks in our crafting system. Characters can specialize in many lines if they wish, but it's going to take them significantly longer than a character specializing in one.
In both those cases though, let's say years ago by and we suddenly have a situation where like 20% of our players have maxed all the major lines. I find that highly unlikely, but let's just say for the sake of argument that this happens. Because that's the big argument against it. With our tier based system all we have to do is add another tier at the end, and what does that do? The players who mastered many lines now have to worry about 75 skills, as well as the related abiliites, recipes, and masteries to go along wit them. Where the player who mastered one of each has to worry about one. I personally don't feel like anyone but the most hardcore players would try to accomplish mastering all of the lines, because not only is it a massive time sink but it would give very little additional power to do so. That having been said, if you place a mountain in front of players, some will want to reach the top. From our standpoint, players trying to achieve these type of things are good for the game, so long as we ensure they don't have an unfair advantage over other players.
As far as infinite content. You can create a good generation scheme that will mix up the results and give players something to do. You can put them into situations where things are happening naturally around them and they need to respond. You can continnually give them something that rewards them significantly at the end. Will it mean that at some point they may be doing the same template for the third time? Sure. But you give them that choice, and you have the ability to randomize it each time. Not to mention with generated content this also affects your ability to create new content or to scale content by level. You can't keep all players engaged forever, but with a proper generation scheme you can create content much more quickly, and make it as reusable as possible.
Regarding your last quoted question. On the swords users vs. non-swords users. Our defensive skills are small passive bonuses. Special abilities are few and far between with them. There are some but they are very rare and generally on long reuse timers. Your stats don't go up as you level. Your base health for example, stays the same. So let's say for the sake of example here that you did master swords/maces/shields/parry/magic/bows/healing and the other guy only had mastered swords. Obviously those aren't skills from Repop, but it makes for an easier to understand example. Swords in our case provide a good mix of offense and defense at short range. It's sort of your generic melee line. Now the other character has more at their diposal. Let's say they had maxed parry and shields, and were using a shield which. That's goign to give them some defensive bonuses over you, let's say 15% of your damage is getting eaten by their defensive skills. They also have the ability to heal themselves, to shoot you from range with a bow or magic, or to switch to a mace and go for some crowd control abilities against you. Crowd control is mainly just going ot stun or knock you down, and with the immunity timers it's not worth the switch one on one because they are going to lose several rounds of combat due to the penalty of switching weapons in combat. If you meet them toe to toe from the start, their only real advantage over you is their improved defense over your own, and that's assuming you have no defensive skills. Let's say mid fight they decide they need healing, they are sacrificing their damage by switching to a healing device. Bandage based healing is slow and for out of combat. Stims are on long timers and both characters can use them. Their only real healing advantage requires them to swap out their sword or mace for a healing device. But during that switch you are going to have several rounds of attacks on them, where they have no ability to respond to it. Then when they switch back to a weapon, they lose several rounds again. The system is designed to allow players to switch roles, but to penalize them for doing so. That characters main advantage over you would be if they caught you at range when you were unaware and then they started pelting you with magic or bows. If you were able to recover and get in close though, they'd then have to make the choice to try to finish you off with magic or bows, or to switch to a melee weapon and suffer that penalty again. We don't really envision players constantly switching roles in combat. In some cases, yes. But in most cases characters would be most efficient by having a defined role in a group. One dedicated healer is generally more efficient than multiple players trying to do DPS and then switching to heal in a time of trouble.
Das, Your problem atm is thinking they are following other games design. They aren't. Take some time and visit their site and read through the info thats there. You'll see that haveing more skills dosen't mean more power it means more options.
Your thoughts on crafting and alts is skewed as well. What is the differance in me haveing 1 character that has put in 50 hours of nothing but crafting and have all crafting skills, or me having 2 characters with 25 hours each with both having exactly half the amount of crafting skills. I still have all crafting skills at my disposal, the only difference is I have to log out and log in my other character. The only way your way would work is to limit 1 character per server, with the skill cap. However this is a free to play game so I can just create a new account and bypass that as well.
You said this :
I would need to know what the skill trees look like. I say this because let's say you have one player at 100 @ swords/maces/shields/parry/magic/bows/healing... and the new players has managed to max out their swords. Now let's say these two characters fight. The character who has grinded these other areas has a massive advantage.
Thats simply not true you have to pick which weapon you want to use and use it, the only advantage you realy have is you could at some point choose to change weapons which puts you at a disadvantage for a short time as switching weapons isn't automatic. Get your mindset away from "haveing more skills means you are incredibly more powerful" TR isn't following that design. More skills = more versitile.
I hope this helps. It seems some people aren't seeing that TR is doing things different on the back end. I guess its because people are so used to what we've had available to us for so long, all they see is that same ol same ol. And this isn't the same ol thing.
All I heard was... "Well aren't you just a little lolly pop triple dipped in psycho."
Well after reading the thread, the arguments pro and con, doing a little due dilligence on these guys, their experience, and their motivation.
I decided to jump in for $250, honestly I was going to only do $50 but after reading some of the self-centered, selfish, hypocritical dribble in this thread I figured in for a penny in for a pound.
They had me until they said 'no skill cap'. That will just turn the game into a rediculous grind like Darkfall.
This has been a hot topic on our forum, and when we did a poll we found users to be pretty much split even between those who desire no skill caps and those who don't. We'll certainly monitor how things go in testing and make adjustments as necessary. But since it hasn't been covered here and most people who visit here don't frequent our forums a quick recap of what was stated there.
- Being able to master many skills prevents the need for alts. While some players enjoy alts, others only do it because they want to try something different, or because the game has run out of content for them. With our generation system we will always have content, and we don't want to force players to lose their name and reputation just to switch. That's the primary logic behind the lack of skills caps.We've balanced the game around them not existing though, you can't really compare a past experience in another game, since their mechanics are very different than ours.
We've seen this fail in multiple games. The one in recent in memory has to be Darkfall Online. It boasts a very similar uncapped skill system that allows you to master anything and everything. The logic behind it is flawed, and you are staring at proof, face to face with Aventurines product. Your name and reputation will go with any character you play, as people will know you. Forcing a skill cap makes new players want to play, because they feel that they can eventually catch the hardcore gamers. All you are doing is making the game far less attractive to new players. The skill gap will be insane and if the rest of the combat mechanics aren't carefully implemented, you will have hundreds(not thousands or millions) of players with the exact same, "jack of all trades" build with absolutely zero uniqueness to playstyle, nor appearance. Also, actually, having people create alts is a wonderful way to keep people playing your game. Your logic is again backwards. No one can create infinite content. You will follow the path of all the other developers who have claimed that they have enough content. Those hardcores will burn through everything interesting and get bored within a few months. You can only grind for so long before you can't stand it any more. But back to the biggest thing. Uncapped skills is the fastest way to being the next DFO or MO. Use some common sense here. No one can master everything. No one, nowhere, never in the history of all things that live, have lived, or will live has the ability to master everything. If it's capped, the penalties for doing everything better be incredibly severe. Still, I feel that if you actually want people playing your game, the best bet is to just implement a soft skill cap with huge diminishing returns if you go over. If not, you will get no new players unless it is AAA quality.
- There is a diminishing returns system. After you have mastered a line additional skill points only provide very small passive bonuses and no new abilities.
- Combat skills are weapon based. There is a penalty for switching weapons (it takes time). So while you can master many combat lines, that only gives you more options, it does not allow you to effectively play all of them at once. If you keep switching roles the penalty for weapon switching will render you less effective than someone who specializes in one.
- We have anti-grind measures to help detect when players are artificially grinding on themselves or on NPCs and slowing down the rate at which they gain skills if they do so. We'll be attempting to detect AFK grinders, but the system itself will automatically impose a severe penalty on how fast they gain skills when doing things like cycling a few abilities on their friends or having a mob that is just barely high enough to skill up on smack them repeatedly while they eat dinner.
- You can earn imprints from missions which can then be used to train a certain skill. This is intended to offset the time traveling when doing a mission and allow you to improve an area of your choosing, rather than making grinding the fastest way to go.
- Combat was designed to have a far more narrow gap between new and veteran players than most games. It's similar to UO in that aspect.
- Each crafting recipe has its own mastery level that only goes up from using that recipe, and has an affect on what things you can create. This is intended to reward specialty crafters.
- The crafting bottleneck is resources. You still need the resources to gain skill. If you master many trees, you need many more resources.
- Crafters generally just create alts in games that restrict their classes. They then mail themselves materials or use the shared bank. This bypasses that.
Again, creating alts for crafters is the way to go. Again, you shouldn't be able to master everything. You are destroying economy by allowing adventurers to craft whatever they want to. It doesn't matter if it takes time, you have already massively affected player economy in a negative way. This is another Darkfall failure. There need to be specialized crafters that cannot fight efficiently. Players need to have to go to these crafters for their wares. You are crushing a very important social economy aspect of the game by letting everyone create their own. Not having the skill points available to do everything is the much smarter choice.
- Being that we are skills based its trivial for us to just add a new tier if people start mastering many lines. While that one extra tier wouldn't be too difficult for a specialized person to master, it grows significantly if you are trying to master many.
- Abilities are not automatically earned. When you have the skill level you quality for them and they are listed as an earnable ability. The primary form of obtaining new abiliites is through the generated mission system. It's not easy to AFK grind through that.
- It takes a good while to max a single line. To master all of the skill lines, as well as gaining all their abilities and their mastery levels for crafting, it would be a huge grind, and you'd be gaining very little actual power over another player. Your main advantage would be that you can do more things.
I think a lot of people see uncapped skills and they think of having to grind for years to be competitive. That's simply not the case with Repop. Mastering a single tree would make you just as effective as that guy who has been playing for years and has mastered many. Their advantage over you would be that they can perform different roles, but they can only do one at a time, and they pay a penalty for switching between them.
Ideally, we don't really want players thinking of the grind at all. We just want them playing and having fun. This has been part of our skill design from the early going, and been given a ton of thought over the years.
I would need to know what the skill trees look like. I say this because let's say you have one player at 100 @ swords/maces/shields/parry/magic/bows/healing... and the new players has managed to max out their swords. Now let's say these two characters fight. The character who has grinded these other areas has a massive advantage. I'm just going of the explenation given above. Swords, shields, parry, healing and magic at max should wreck the other player using swords and lower levels of some of the others. Is parry lumped in with the weapon skill line? Is magic unable to be used while wielding a weapon or shield? If everyything is super simplified and restricted, then I can see how an uncapped system may work. My bet is that is won't be that simplified. My bet is that the above is flat our wrong and that grinder will be sigificantly more powerful. Maybe you guys have been thinking.. but the thinking seems very flawed. This sandbox approach must be changed. You're designing systems that are not needed and are too complex in most cases. You won't let go of age old sandbox core concepts that have never really worked. We will continue to see another sandbox with a few thousand subscriptions sully the UO name. We don't want a UO or SWG, we want a better one.
Ultimately, most gamers will play this off of first impressions. They won't dig into detailed explanations of how the systems work and why they work better. They will say, third person? Check. Balanced gameplay? Check. Personal property ownership? Check. Strong PvP and PvE? Check. A reason to keep playing? Check. Good graphics and UI? Check. Accessible and easy to learn? Check.
If they don't see that within five minutes of loading the game up for the first time. You've failed as a developer. You will never get the majority of those players back once they see a poor first impression.
As J. C. has stated, you are conveniently forgetting about Eve Online which has been out for a number of years and still gets new players easily enough without the worry of 'catching up'. You have the idea that if people have higher numbers than you, they'll be better than you. That's not always the case, as it only takes a few days to be effective in Eve. While you may not be the best, you will be able to contribute effectively or play solo if you are careful.
The Secret World is also going with the same mechanic, though only time will tell how effective it will be as a system. To say that it's a failed endeavor because of one game you played is simply a disservice to the developer and to other gamers. That's like claiming FPS's are doomed to fail because of Daikatana.
I'm somewhat interested (but not nearly enough to donate money) but how do I know this isn't going to be like seemingly every other "indie" MMO where its quality and polish is utter crap? How much will it cost to purchase? Sub fee? F2P? If you're going to charge the same price as a AAA MMO then it better be of the same quality. Being "indie" doesn't give you a free pass to make junk.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I'm somewhat interested (but not nearly enough to donate money) but how do I know this isn't going to be like seemingly every other "indie" MMO where its quality and polish is utter crap? How much will it cost to purchase? Sub fee? F2P? If you're going to charge the same price as a AAA MMO then it better be of the same quality. Being "indie" doesn't give you a free pass to make junk.
You are makeing quite a few assumptions here but there general goal is F2P with micro- transactions ,but for more info please visit official site forums the devs may be quieter than usual as they are prepareing for in game testing and feel free to join our growing community they have some updated info hot of the presses.
Also we are very near Kickstarter goal so if u jump in now the forum is buzziing at the moment
I've added my $100 to the kickstarter campaign. I've bought way more than $100 worth of crap in the past and this seems like a solid effort. It's going in the right direction and I want them to be able to finish it.
Comments
MMO fans complain repeatedly about games not willing to take a chance, but the reality is that it generally takes smaller developers to be willing to take those changes. Because publishers generally want a safe bet. Then when innovative indie products come out they complain that they are not polished enough or have too many bugs. The great thing about Kickstarter is it helps to level some of that field. Indie titles will still have a much smaller budget than published titles. But things like Kicktarter help level the field.
Bottom line is that no game gets made on its own. Unless you have a single filthy rich developer fronting the entire bill. That hasn't happened since what? Horizons? The vast majority of MMOs are published. When a development studio signs on with a publisher they give up of their rights. They generally give up some creative control. And often they are forced out the door before they are ready because publishers have invested in marketing and want to take advantage of it. Those are the harsh realities of game development.
With Repop we have the choice. Deal with a publisher, get an advance. Finish the game on that while giving up the lion's share of royalties and a lot of control. Self-publish on a shoestring budget, and release an unpolished product. Or Kickstart and probably go somewhere in between the two financial wise, while retaining full control fo the game. The Kickstarter route is the best for the company, and it's the best for the players.
If someone doesn't feel safe with pledging to an indie development studio, that's perfectly understandable. But the quote above is the type of logic that has allowed publisher's to exploit development studios for years. It's the reason that most games never see a penny of royalties, and it's the reason that many mmos are rushed to market well before they are ready.
https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
Amen to that...
awesome another game i cant wait for
Looks like there are quite a few sandbox games on the way
about bloody time..
I know it's bonkers,a total glut for years then Kickstarter quite literally kicks the life back into sandboxes not only that but wasteland2,Shadowrun2 new stuff like FTL,Dead State to Skyjacker,just goes to show game company executives really don't have a clue about what the people really want,or would spoil it just check out the shadowrun pitch brilliantly emphasise's my last point.
I made a donation
hope you guys reach your goal which you will which there is plenty of time left 
just need to advertise some more on other sites get some more exposure.
They're on the way there!
Thanks firefly and all others over 16k now woot !
Death to End Game, Death to Themepark trash!
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
Thanks everyone, if anyone has any "tips" for sites let us know. We contact quite a few sites already and working on a few others this month.
Joshua Halls
Co Owner-Lead Programmer The Repopulation
I'll say this.
The game doesn't look good by any measure. However, from what I've read they're very passionate about making a proper sandbox AAA MMO title. That's good enough for me to be honest. They have a strong groundwork, and I can only hope they build upon it as if each brick were laid in gold.
Although I won't be donating due to the excessive head-start program they have I wish them megalithic success!
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Excessive head-start program?
Edit: Sorry forgot about your previous post and it is late and I am tired. Nevermind.
Joshua Halls
Co Owner-Lead Programmer The Repopulation
Doesnt look good by any measure? What game are you measuring it against? Have you watched any of the videos or just read about the game?
I admire you for the honesty, but I think you should really take another look.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Doesnt look good by any measure? What game are you measuring it against? Have you watched any of the videos or just read about the game?
I admire you for the honesty, but I think you should really take another look.
Yep watch those vids again and please remember this is still about to hit Alpha and despite the graphics been pretty good anyway,Kickstarter should give the team more time on graphics and general art assets.
Except that your money didn't go poof. You just made a bad investment decision. The purchase you made is in your hands. You just didn't like it.
The difference is that this is just a donation. It is like me coming up to you and telling you about this idea that I have... and then asking for money to get it going without offering you anything in return. I don't have to let you in on the product that I do or don't make. I don't even ever have to see your face again. I can go use your money on beer. You are making a blind decision. I'm glad people like you have money to just throw at people, because I certainly don't.
Ultimately, most gamers will play this off of first impressions. They won't dig into detailed explanations of how the systems work and why they work better. They will say, third person? Check. Balanced gameplay? Check. Personal property ownership? Check. Strong PvP and PvE? Check. A reason to keep playing? Check. Good graphics and UI? Check. Accessible and easy to learn? Check.
If they don't see that within five minutes of loading the game up for the first time. You've failed as a developer. You will never get the majority of those players back once they see a poor first impression.
@DAS: Eve also has uncapped skills and has been the most successful sandbox MMOG of all time. That having been said, your comparing projecting flaws in other games on us. This system was designed from the ground up with uncapped skills in mind. It's balanced around it. Becauase of the way our system works, many skills just gives more options, it doesn't significantly increase your character's power in combat compared to a player who has mastered just one offensive and defensive skill. They'll be just about as good on what they do as you are in what you do. The only difference is you'll have more things you can do, but not at the same time. Regarding alts, we consider them something that if players want to do they are more than welcome to. But we don't want to force them into it.
On the economy. Please do explain how being able to master many crafting lines as opposed to making an alt and mailing yourself the ingredients ruins the economy? I'd love to hear to it. Fact of the matter is there is zero difference between the two, except you don't have to level up a new character through combat just to get to the new crafting skills. But on top of that we've added extra things to encourage specialists. Things like the recipe mastery system which increases your potency with a certain recipe the more it is used. The mastery system and limited resources are the bottlenecks in our crafting system. Characters can specialize in many lines if they wish, but it's going to take them significantly longer than a character specializing in one.
In both those cases though, let's say years ago by and we suddenly have a situation where like 20% of our players have maxed all the major lines. I find that highly unlikely, but let's just say for the sake of argument that this happens. Because that's the big argument against it. With our tier based system all we have to do is add another tier at the end, and what does that do? The players who mastered many lines now have to worry about 75 skills, as well as the related abiliites, recipes, and masteries to go along wit them. Where the player who mastered one of each has to worry about one. I personally don't feel like anyone but the most hardcore players would try to accomplish mastering all of the lines, because not only is it a massive time sink but it would give very little additional power to do so. That having been said, if you place a mountain in front of players, some will want to reach the top. From our standpoint, players trying to achieve these type of things are good for the game, so long as we ensure they don't have an unfair advantage over other players.
As far as infinite content. You can create a good generation scheme that will mix up the results and give players something to do. You can put them into situations where things are happening naturally around them and they need to respond. You can continnually give them something that rewards them significantly at the end. Will it mean that at some point they may be doing the same template for the third time? Sure. But you give them that choice, and you have the ability to randomize it each time. Not to mention with generated content this also affects your ability to create new content or to scale content by level. You can't keep all players engaged forever, but with a proper generation scheme you can create content much more quickly, and make it as reusable as possible.
Regarding your last quoted question. On the swords users vs. non-swords users. Our defensive skills are small passive bonuses. Special abilities are few and far between with them. There are some but they are very rare and generally on long reuse timers. Your stats don't go up as you level. Your base health for example, stays the same. So let's say for the sake of example here that you did master swords/maces/shields/parry/magic/bows/healing and the other guy only had mastered swords. Obviously those aren't skills from Repop, but it makes for an easier to understand example. Swords in our case provide a good mix of offense and defense at short range. It's sort of your generic melee line. Now the other character has more at their diposal. Let's say they had maxed parry and shields, and were using a shield which. That's goign to give them some defensive bonuses over you, let's say 15% of your damage is getting eaten by their defensive skills. They also have the ability to heal themselves, to shoot you from range with a bow or magic, or to switch to a mace and go for some crowd control abilities against you. Crowd control is mainly just going ot stun or knock you down, and with the immunity timers it's not worth the switch one on one because they are going to lose several rounds of combat due to the penalty of switching weapons in combat. If you meet them toe to toe from the start, their only real advantage over you is their improved defense over your own, and that's assuming you have no defensive skills. Let's say mid fight they decide they need healing, they are sacrificing their damage by switching to a healing device. Bandage based healing is slow and for out of combat. Stims are on long timers and both characters can use them. Their only real healing advantage requires them to swap out their sword or mace for a healing device. But during that switch you are going to have several rounds of attacks on them, where they have no ability to respond to it. Then when they switch back to a weapon, they lose several rounds again. The system is designed to allow players to switch roles, but to penalize them for doing so. That characters main advantage over you would be if they caught you at range when you were unaware and then they started pelting you with magic or bows. If you were able to recover and get in close though, they'd then have to make the choice to try to finish you off with magic or bows, or to switch to a melee weapon and suffer that penalty again. We don't really envision players constantly switching roles in combat. In some cases, yes. But in most cases characters would be most efficient by having a defined role in a group. One dedicated healer is generally more efficient than multiple players trying to do DPS and then switching to heal in a time of trouble.
https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
Das, Your problem atm is thinking they are following other games design. They aren't. Take some time and visit their site and read through the info thats there. You'll see that haveing more skills dosen't mean more power it means more options.
Your thoughts on crafting and alts is skewed as well. What is the differance in me haveing 1 character that has put in 50 hours of nothing but crafting and have all crafting skills, or me having 2 characters with 25 hours each with both having exactly half the amount of crafting skills. I still have all crafting skills at my disposal, the only difference is I have to log out and log in my other character. The only way your way would work is to limit 1 character per server, with the skill cap. However this is a free to play game so I can just create a new account and bypass that as well.
You said this :
I would need to know what the skill trees look like. I say this because let's say you have one player at 100 @ swords/maces/shields/parry/magic/bows/healing... and the new players has managed to max out their swords. Now let's say these two characters fight. The character who has grinded these other areas has a massive advantage.
Thats simply not true you have to pick which weapon you want to use and use it, the only advantage you realy have is you could at some point choose to change weapons which puts you at a disadvantage for a short time as switching weapons isn't automatic. Get your mindset away from "haveing more skills means you are incredibly more powerful" TR isn't following that design. More skills = more versitile.
I hope this helps. It seems some people aren't seeing that TR is doing things different on the back end. I guess its because people are so used to what we've had available to us for so long, all they see is that same ol same ol. And this isn't the same ol thing.
All I heard was... "Well aren't you just a little lolly pop triple dipped in psycho."
Well after reading the thread, the arguments pro and con, doing a little due dilligence on these guys, their experience, and their motivation.
I decided to jump in for $250, honestly I was going to only do $50 but after reading some of the self-centered, selfish, hypocritical dribble in this thread I figured in for a penny in for a pound.
As J. C. has stated, you are conveniently forgetting about Eve Online which has been out for a number of years and still gets new players easily enough without the worry of 'catching up'. You have the idea that if people have higher numbers than you, they'll be better than you. That's not always the case, as it only takes a few days to be effective in Eve. While you may not be the best, you will be able to contribute effectively or play solo if you are careful.
The Secret World is also going with the same mechanic, though only time will tell how effective it will be as a system. To say that it's a failed endeavor because of one game you played is simply a disservice to the developer and to other gamers. That's like claiming FPS's are doomed to fail because of Daikatana.
I'm somewhat interested (but not nearly enough to donate money) but how do I know this isn't going to be like seemingly every other "indie" MMO where its quality and polish is utter crap? How much will it cost to purchase? Sub fee? F2P? If you're going to charge the same price as a AAA MMO then it better be of the same quality. Being "indie" doesn't give you a free pass to make junk.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
You are makeing quite a few assumptions here but there general goal is F2P with micro- transactions ,but for more info please visit official site forums the devs may be quieter than usual as they are prepareing for in game testing and feel free to join our growing community they have some updated info hot of the presses.
Also we are very near Kickstarter goal so if u jump in now the forum is buzziing at the moment
yeah i pledge my share as well... im very sceptical but we will see.
If they deliver a solid product im ready to support it.
I've added my $100 to the kickstarter campaign. I've bought way more than $100 worth of crap in the past and this seems like a solid effort. It's going in the right direction and I want them to be able to finish it.
Congratz on reaching the goal, still 15 days left as well.
For the rest of you: now is the time to act!
Complaining later on forums how the genre gone to shit will not help.