Skill shots / Class balance / Your thoughts

Rictis

Hey,

Class Balance

  So Tera has been out long enough for everyone to get a very good handle on how the game plays etc. One of the dicussions that came up earlier in this games infancy to NA release was class balance. I am sure those of you that have played Tera have noticed a huge difference in the leveling curve depending on the class you play. For instance sorcerers as far as i can tell require little to no skill to do a large amount of damage, on the other hand archers require more skill to use but have the same difficulty rating?

  Another example is the class balance between warriors and lancers. While warriors can dish out a respectible amount of dps, lancers are non existant. I understand you can argue that lancers are tanks, but so are warriors. Now there is a patch coming out that is supposed to balance this out a lot more. From what I can read though it seems warriors are getting a huge buff and lancers are really getting just a pat on the back. To be more blunt the major differnce between lancers over warriors was their ability to block, but once warriors get this in the new patch i forsee a huge class in-balance again. What will be the point to have a lancer, since warriors can deal good damage and block just as well as lancers?

The above mentioned is supposed to be worked on in future patches, but I wonder what happens with the current state of the game? I mean right now what is the point of grabbing a archer over a sorcerer at end game? Once the patch comes out for warriors, will a lot of lancers drop off due to a huge change in the class mechanics?

Skill Shots

  Now I am not sure if anyone else has experienced this problem, but I am curious to see if anyone else has this gripe. Certain mobs, some named in story quests have a rediculous normal attack. What I mean, is that mobs will start hitting you for lets say 2,000 normally. However these mobs will hit you for around 4-5,000. Now I understand that classes have the ability to evade damage etc, however I find that some monsters have serious tweaking issues. For example the Argon Reapers can auto attack you and do 2,000 normal damage with a 1-3 seconds cool down. The closer you are the lower the cooldown due to the animation of the attack. While most attacks are skill shots in this game and can be avoided... the auto attacks by AI casters cannot be. Here in is the problem I am having. Everything is supposed to be a skill shot aside from very few spells. Does anyone else have a gripe with enemy AI having the ability to auto attack you and you be unable to evade their attacks? I mean I play this game for the fact that I can move out of the way... especially as a war since I can literally dodge attacks. But I am starting to get very irate at the fact that AI has homing auto attacks with a very low cooldown.

  On a side note, once you aggro an AI caster, their auto attack will always knock you off your mount no matter how many dance moves you pull out to avoid them.

Your Thoughts

  These are just a few gripes I have with Tera at the moment. I was wondering if anyone else has seen anything lately that has caused you to curse in a different language (Greek is my choice). I am looking forward to the upcoming patches, and hope that these small annoyances get ironed out.

  Has anyone hit end game yet? I wonder how the end game is flushing out... so far I am not hearing anything special aside from rep grinds and some more quests. The nexus at the moment is in its infancy so that needs work, and I have been hearing disheartening reviews of end game dungeons being rather lack luster.

What do you guys think?

TLDR: we like pie, but this one is a little under cooked. Do you think Eme will heat it up for us?

centkin

It is kind of simple -- just give lancers two stances the way warriors have two stances. 

Remove a certain amount of their default survivability and low damage and throw that into a defense buff skill -- so it is a wash for defense if you use it.  Then put in an offensive stance skill. 

At that point lancers would have the same three choices as a warrior -- run with the defensive stance and play tank -- run with the offensive stance and play sort-of-a-dps -- or run with no stance and play middle of the road.

Rictis

Originally posted by centkin

It is kind of simple -- just give lancers two stances the way warriors have two stances. 

Remove a certain amount of their default survivability and low damage and throw that into a defense buff skill -- so it is a wash for defense if you use it.  Then put in an offensive stance skill. 

At that point lancers would have the same three choices as a warrior -- run with the defensive stance and play tank -- run with the offensive stance and play sort-of-a-dps -- or run with no stance and play middle of the road.

 Not sure if I agree with you stating it is as simple as that. I think that players that use warriors have this mentality of dealing more damage then lancers because they are wielding two swords, while a lancer has a shield and lance. I think warriors should have been used moreso as WoW Combat Rogue and less as a evasion tank. While the idea was great on paper, i think the implementation missed the mark.

I would prefer to have warriors removed from tanking altogether and just add a new tank class with better well thought out mechanics. I fear that balancing the lancer and warrior as comparable tanks is the wrong way to go with this.

Only time will tell though if they fix the issue or make it worse. I would still rather see a brand new class and new design from the ground up.

Laughing-man

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Hey,

Class Balance

  So Tera has been out long enough for everyone to get a very good handle on how the game plays etc. One of the dicussions that came up earlier in this games infancy to NA release was class balance. I am sure those of you that have played Tera have noticed a huge difference in the leveling curve depending on the class you play. For instance sorcerers as far as i can tell require little to no skill to do a large amount of damage, on the other hand archers require more skill to use but have the same difficulty rating?

  Another example is the class balance between warriors and lancers. While warriors can dish out a respectible amount of dps, lancers are non existant. I understand you can argue that lancers are tanks, but so are warriors. Now there is a patch coming out that is supposed to balance this out a lot more. From what I can read though it seems warriors are getting a huge buff and lancers are really getting just a pat on the back. To be more blunt the major differnce between lancers over warriors was their ability to block, but once warriors get this in the new patch i forsee a huge class in-balance again. What will be the point to have a lancer, since warriors can deal good damage and block just as well as lancers?  BOTH classes are getting an entirely new resource bar for their tanking defensive abilities, its refered to as a stamina bar.  Now we have NO idea how warrior block will function, to assume that it will be "just as well as lancers" is flawed, as we have literally no information on it, and the fact that lancer is now getting their abilites based off that stamina bar too... well for one Lancers may lose stamina much slower while blocking than warriors, perhaps warriors block amount on their swords will be far lower, All I know is Warrior weapons STILL won't have the agro + on them, also Lancers are getting an escape mechanic, one that they desperately need.

The above mentioned is supposed to be worked on in future patches, but I wonder what happens with the current state of the game? I mean right now what is the point of grabbing a archer over a sorcerer at end game? Once the patch comes out for warriors, will a lot of lancers drop off due to a huge change in the class mechanics?

Skill Shots

  Now I am not sure if anyone else has experienced this problem, but I am curious to see if anyone else has this gripe. Certain mobs, some named in story quests have a rediculous normal attack. What I mean, is that mobs will start hitting you for lets say 2,000 normally. However these mobs will hit you for around 4-5,000. Now I understand that classes have the ability to evade damage etc, however I find that some monsters have serious tweaking issues. For example the Argon Reapers can auto attack you and do 2,000 normal damage with a 1-3 seconds cool down. The closer you are the lower the cooldown due to the animation of the attack. While most attacks are skill shots in this game and can be avoided... the auto attacks by AI casters cannot be. Here in is the problem I am having. Everything is supposed to be a skill shot aside from very few spells. Does anyone else have a gripe with enemy AI having the ability to auto attack you and you be unable to evade their attacks? I mean I play this game for the fact that I can move out of the way... especially as a war since I can literally dodge attacks. But I am starting to get very irate at the fact that AI has homing auto attacks with a very low cooldown.   Named Quest mobs are like bosses, bosses are generally harder to kill their underlings, it SHOULD be hard to kill a boss, as a lancer I've had quite a time killing a few of the named quest mobs as I level.  Yes the caster mobs garenteed hit you with their attacks, yet you can block or dodge out of them using skills, caster mobs also die faster, and hit softer, unless of course they are a named boss mob.  Have you fought a decent mystic or sorcerer yet?  They won't miss much, maybe not hit as often as an AI, but its not tricky to target someone and shoot them in this game tbh.

  On a side note, once you aggro an AI caster, their auto attack will always knock you off your mount no matter how many dance moves you pull out to avoid them. Yes, if you are targeted by a ranged attack and the person targeting you has you in their reticle when the spell goes off you WILL be hit by it unless you block, same goes for AI, when you agro them its assumed they target you, and cast a spell.

Your Thoughts

  These are just a few gripes I have with Tera at the moment. I was wondering if anyone else has seen anything lately that has caused you to curse in a different language (Greek is my choice). I am looking forward to the upcoming patches, and hope that these small annoyances get ironed out.

  Has anyone hit end game yet? I wonder how the end game is flushing out... so far I am not hearing anything special aside from rep grinds and some more quests. The nexus at the moment is in its infancy so that needs work, and I have been hearing disheartening reviews of end game dungeons being rather lack luster. I have two 60's, a Lancer and a Mystic.  Its the same sort of end game you'd experience in almost any themepark game, with the added intrigue of guild vs guild politics and zone control.  Open PVP does add a lot to a game.  Nexus' are rather interesting...  the hard mode dungeons are actually quite challenging.  However, yes, it does suffer from some of the same problems all themepark games suffer from when it comes to end game, which is a lack of content for the dedicated player, sometimes I miss games that took a year to reach max level...

What do you guys think?

TLDR: we like pie, but this one is a little under cooked. Do you think Eme will heat it up for us? I love this pie, can't wait for the whipped cream coming with the next patch.

 

Rictis

@Laughing-Man,

 

  If an AI caster auto attacks you, unless you use the lancers block. You cannot dodge the attack. I have played every class ranging from level 12 - 50 and not once unless i was using a lancer block could i avoid casters auto attacks. They will hit you even if you evade out of the way. Now I am not sure how your avoiding their homing attacks aside from using block, but if you can go into detail that would be awesome. Please keep in mind I am not talking about spells or skills, I am talking about their fireball , magic ball auto attack that is a homing animation to your character. You cannot simply move to the left and dodge it.

My gripe with the boss mobs is again that some auto attacks are homing and you cannot evade them. If you are a melee class and you are very close to them their auto attack nears a 0 cooldown. Because you CANNOT avoid auto-attacks from caster AI this poses a problem. But yes I agree that named mobs should be harder and hope they would be.

But I do agree with you that I am assuming a lot in my post in regards to the warrior and lancer updates, its mostly speculation. I have my hopes up though.

Apple pie is my fav, cherry is a close second. Whats your fav? No offense though, not a fan of whip cream on my pie >_<

Laughing-man

Originally posted by Wakygreek

@Laughing-Man,

 

  If an AI caster auto attacks you, unless you use the lancers block. You cannot dodge the attack. I have played every class ranging from level 12 - 50 and not once unless i was using a lancer block could i avoid casters auto attacks. They will hit you even if you evade out of the way. Now I am not sure how your avoiding their homing attacks aside from using block, but if you can go into detail that would be awesome. Please keep in mind I am not talking about spells or skills, I am talking about their fireball , magic ball auto attack that is a homing animation to your character. You cannot simply move to the left and dodge it.  I agree you cannot physically move out of its way and dodge it, as a mystic this is exactly how my auto attack works as well.  However, it does a very minor amount of damage by compare to any other ability I have as a mystic, and this seems similar when it comes to the NPC version of the mystic class.  I was under the impression if you used "evade" you could dodge out of the auto attack, as I've seen slayers do it before to me on my mystic, however, it may function differently for npcs, on this I am not sure.  

My gripe with the boss mobs is again that some auto attacks are homing and you cannot evade them. If you are a melee class and you are very close to them their auto attack nears a 0 cooldown. Because you CANNOT avoid auto-attacks from caster AI this poses a problem. But yes I agree that named mobs should be harder and hope they would be. For a lot of them if you time it right as an evd class you could get behind them when they start their attack and get a few hits off, it does seem a bit more challenging.  As a lancer I CAN block all the auto attacks boss mobs throw at me, yet they still manage to pose quite a threat as they take a long time for me to kill, so eventually they'll get a hit or two in.  My best friend plays a slayer, and I witnessed him last night kill a sorcerer quest boss mob that was around level 44 rather easily, I recalled the same sorc mob killed me on my Lancer once before I got it down, yet as his slayer he managed to kill the monster fast enough it posed less of a threat to him than I.

But I do agree with you that I am assuming a lot in my post in regards to the warrior and lancer updates, its mostly speculation. I have my hopes up though.  As a lancer I feel much the same way, though I do hope Warriors get the ability to queue as tanks, while still maintaining a need and a use for lancer.  

Apple pie is my fav, cherry is a close second. Whats your fav? No offense though, not a fan of whip cream on my pie >_<    Key Lime Pie is my favorite pie whipped cream goes well with it heh.

 

Sovrath

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Originally posted by centkin

It is kind of simple -- just give lancers two stances the way warriors have two stances. 

Remove a certain amount of their default survivability and low damage and throw that into a defense buff skill -- so it is a wash for defense if you use it.  Then put in an offensive stance skill. 

At that point lancers would have the same three choices as a warrior -- run with the defensive stance and play tank -- run with the offensive stance and play sort-of-a-dps -- or run with no stance and play middle of the road.

 Not sure if I agree with you stating it is as simple as that. I think that players that use warriors have this mentality of dealing more damage then lancers because they are wielding two swords, while a lancer has a shield and lance. I think warriors should have been used moreso as WoW Combat Rogue and less as a evasion tank. While the idea was great on paper, i think the implementation missed the mark.

I would prefer to have warriors removed from tanking altogether and just add a new tank class with better well thought out mechanics. I fear that balancing the lancer and warrior as comparable tanks is the wrong way to go with this.

Only time will tell though if they fix the issue or make it worse. I would still rather see a brand new class and new design from the ground up.

I completelyu disagree. Let Warriors be the evasion tank, give Lancers a secodn stance. Though quite frankly I'm happy with my lancer teh way it is.

Rictis

@Sovrath

Thanks for the reply, I often find your posts a good read. Can you be a little more specific as how you think that just the stances can solve the problem? I realize that this is speculation but I am curious and in the mood for a good discussion!

@Laughing-Man

Thank you for your replies, I do find them insightful. I am glad you play a Lancer main because I can pick your brain as far as how you see the patch going in later. I say this as someone who mains a warrior tank currently. My friend plays a lancer and he is not too happy that warriors are gettng a block mechanic as well. As far as the slayers evasion from what I can tell it should be the same as the warrior evasion at least it looks simmilar and the descriptions are the same. I think the game has them coded as "spells" simmilar to the archer and sorcerer lock on skills which is why they follow you. Have you seen any comparable warrior gear drop at end game for tanking that includes aggro modification yet? Aside from forcing an enigma?

P.S. Would anyone like to see another ranged dps class introduced?