Seanmcad , I do agree the lore would make it fit. Was simply stating my belief that it will not work because imo that system would rely on more people being decent human beings than what would happen. We all know the griefers would camp the newbie towns driving down the population then come here and whine because nobody is playing the game. Like I said I also have ZERO faith in the community controlling itself. DAoC based pvp would be fine. I don't think I could buy into a FFA PVP unless the penalties for ganking and griefing were spelled out extremly well before hand.
I think we agree.
I dont know DAoC pvp but in my mind clan vs clan declared war pvp is ideal.
If one doesnt want pvp then dont join a clan. 99% of what can be done in a clan can be done offline in a loose alliance anyway.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Seanmcad just to clarify do you mean that the ffa pvp would be between warring clans? Not just running around ganking people? So all guilds in a ffa or just guilds that have declared war?
I agree with what was said way back on the first page about the RVRVR and a stealth DAOC2.
I think GW2 is more what a modern DAOC2 would look like, less with hard factions and more with world vs world if you will.
Anway..if they want to do what DAOC did way back in the day it wont be by doing what DAOC did way back in the day...if that makes sense. Reason DAOC was awesome, was at the time, it was an actual unique mmorpg mechanic. Something modern games are completely void of.
If ES wants to be an epic game, it needs to drop the template/mold/playbook of all the past successes and take a risk, develop a completely unique mechanism...
the question is...does Zeni have th mental power and creative spark to actually create the first new MMORPG mechanic in like...a decade to think out side the box and deliver something unique? Im not talking about a rebirth and overhaul of an existing system like with dynamic events that seem to be the newest necro-mechanic (did anarchy online do that first with their alien invasions or were other games doing that back then too?)
Anyway...the problem with games today is they are the same great games we use to play during the first generation of 3D mmorpgs, they just combine it all and mash it up into one souless system of the SSDD weve been playing.
New mechanics, new system all unique and the games a win...rehash battlegrounds "massive persistant battlegounds" and RVRVR, dynamic events and get a bunch of people dissapointed a month after this game launches.
What i dont get is...games back from the lat 90's to the eary 2000's were pumping out such unique games each with a totally new mechanic and system so good that every game after had to do the same thing...what happend then that developers and companies cant just think of something new for once? Just off the top of my head i can think of 3 games that are the sum total of every game today: EQ with the pve and quests, DAOC with pvp, Anarchy online with instances and DE (yes was the first game to start that hated trend) and look at todays games, the sum total of those 3.
Never played DAOC tho i only heard good things about it, the studio that made DAOC is working on TESO if im not mistaken so i wont be suprised if they add some good DAOC inspired stuff.
Im the kind of person that thinks that new game that is coming out is going to be amazing without knowing anything about it, but i also never buy the game untill i have either tested it or heard good things about it.
I have really high hopes for TESO since i am really big fan of TES, i play Morrowind regularly and im having fun in Skyrim even tho i lost my first save :]
Now its looking like 33% daoc, 33% tes, 33% wow. Not so bloody great.
I'm very disappointed they've put in instances both pve and pvp. Why couldn't they have left it open world like tes and daoc.
I'm also disappointed it has classes. While the tes system has failed in mmos before - e.g darkfall. That doesn't mean they have to go the other way with hard classes and weapons changing skills like gw2. They should have used a progression system like either a) eves offline skilling or b) tsws ability wheel. Those would fit tes universe better.
Originally posted by ShakyMo At first I thought 50% daoc 50% tes - great.
Now its looking like 33% daoc, 33% tes, 33% wow. Not so bloody great.
I'm very disappointed they've put in instances both pve and pvp. Why couldn't they have left it open world like tes and daoc.
I'm also disappointed it has classes. While the tes system has failed in mmos before - e.g darkfall. That doesn't mean they have to go the other way with hard classes and weapons changing skills like gw2. They should have used a progression system like either a) eves offline skilling or b) tsws ability wheel. Those would fit tes universe better.
Darkfall being a failure is questionable but that conversation aside one thing is for sure. The reasons many people dont like darkfall are almost completely universally shared and none of those reasons would require any major change to the basics of the game play.
My point being, tes online could very much be very close to darkfall. Just make some adjustments on skill gain and make it a little safer for those who are not intrested in FFA and its done.
and if Darkfall 2 takes care of those major issues and doesnt go kiddy park mainstream then tes online will not stand a chance against darkfall 2. but we shall see
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Seanmcad just to clarify do you mean that the ffa pvp would be between warring clans? Not just running around ganking people? So all guilds in a ffa or just guilds that have declared war?
I think the best is just FFA between clans that have declared war on each other.
From playing Darkfall I found warfare pvp a LOT more fun then running around bothering people who werent intrested in being bothered. In fact, I had a standing rule to never do that. I was war only pvp player.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Sorry Entinernint how just don't see how FFA full loot could make this anything than another Darkfall or Shadowbane. I have zero faith in a community policing itself. FFA fulll loot to me just screams prison riot. They have to have some serious penalties in place if they want to keep TES feel for everyone because in my experience the best way to ruin immersion in a game is to add other players. Seriously would it be TES scrolls if every five minutes all the new players are being ganked, looted and teabagged by the Nord Ipwnurmama and is dark elf friend Ihazskillz?
FFA is important overal stradegy in war. (depeating your enamies resources) but other than that I agree. I do understand that TES is FFA inspired but when you factor in actual people, the sociopathic population is not large enough to hold a strong game population. That said, I think going totally rouge is fine but just make it harder to do.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by ShakyMo At first I thought 50% daoc 50% tes - great.
Now its looking like 33% daoc, 33% tes, 33% wow. Not so bloody great.
I'm very disappointed they've put in instances both pve and pvp. Why couldn't they have left it open world like tes and daoc.
I'm also disappointed it has classes. While the tes system has failed in mmos before - e.g darkfall. That doesn't mean they have to go the other way with hard classes and weapons changing skills like gw2. They should have used a progression system like either a) eves offline skilling or b) tsws ability wheel. Those would fit tes universe better.
Er... the TES system didn't fail in Darkfall.
And it's looking more like 89% WoW, 9% DAoC, 2% TES.
They're already butchering the lore and gameplay.
DAoC was a game without instances and the guy heading this project understands that for an MMO to be fun and interesting, it needs public dungeons. Then in the same breath he talks about how the world will be phased/instanced, and how there will be instanced dungeons. Kind of defeats the whole point. I imagine the higher ups funding the project lost their shit when he said he didn't want instances and they had to find a compromise somewhere, because man, that's really mixing signals.
And no, its ONE DAOC guy on the project, not Mythic.
Originally posted by Entinerint Originally posted by MMOExposedOriginally posted by EntinerintOriginally posted by newbinatorNot saying it is. But I'm actually hoping ESO is as close to DAOC RvR as we've ever seen from an MMO. Am I the only one who feels this way?
I feel the opposite. If they want to make DAOC 2 make DAOC 2. If they want to make Elder Scrolls Online, make it like Elder Scrolls. It's that simple. Just because they can't get funding for DAOC 2 doesn't mean they have to shatter one of the greatest fantasy franchises' potential for an MMO by selfishly cannibalizing it.@Red, care to explain what you mean?Sure.
1. First and Third person real-time combat (plays exactly like Skyrim with a bit more polish).
2. Races are not locked into factions.
3. You can kill anyone at anytime and loot everything on their body.
4. A crime and punishment system that prevents #3 from becoming an easy life.
5. Factions can be joined by anyone of any race.
6. Player factions are creatable and can war with each other and/or join under the banner of an in-game faction.
7. Imperials are a playable race.
8. Faction war can still exist with the major factions but anyone can be neutral if they want.
9. Voiced characters (apparently we have that).
10. No classes. Just skills. (Or at the very least an option to create a custom class)
11. Housing for all players (instanced or not).
12. Quest-givers that don't indicate they are quest-givers, ie: you have to talk to people in order find out if they need help with anything.
13. Skill-based progression (not what is currently in ESO)
Yup! This is the base of an Elder Scrolls game, a base that ESO lacks.
And it's looking more like 89% WoW, 9% DAoC, 2% TES.
They're already butchering the lore and gameplay.
DAoC was a game without instances and the guy heading this project understands that for an MMO to be fun and interesting, it needs public dungeons. Then in the same breath he talks about how the world will be phased/instanced, and how there will be instanced dungeons. Kind of defeats the whole point. I imagine the higher ups funding the project lost their shit when he said he didn't want instances and they had to find a compromise somewhere, because man, that's really mixing signals.
And no, its ONE DAOC guy on the project, not Mythic.
I'd hardly call Darkfall a success.. It's a niche game for a niche audience, at best. And only 2 servers worldwide that are NOT over capacity. How many millions with an international IP do you think they'd want to throw at a niche? Not everyone likes the idea of a twitch-based combat with full loot. It works in single player TES games because you aren't getting ganked and looted by strangers when ping can play a factor. And then you just load up a save and haven't lost anything. That's a problem for a game with thousands of people.
The way they've describe instancing/phasing so far, yes, there will be some dungeons that are instanced, but most of what they talk about appears to be for story. In one of the videos, they talk about how you go back in time and fight some battle, and based on the decisions you make, some things change in the present for you. Phasing is ideal for this, but I understand your concern. I hope they have battlegrounds (Persistant, but isolated RvR zones) like in DAoC in concert with Cyrodil (Frontiers) more often than capture-the-flag type scenarios that are timed and scored.
And it's Matt Firor.. I'm farily certain he played a major, major role in RvR development. Sure, he's just 1 guy... But if Bill Gates went to work for Apple, and not all of Microsoft's founding members, you don't think people would take notice?
And besides, without Matt, MYTHIC made Warhammer...
Originally posted by newbinatorNot saying it is. But I'm actually hoping ESO is as close to DAOC RvR as we've ever seen from an MMO. Am I the only one who feels this way?
I feel the opposite. If they want to make DAOC 2 make DAOC 2. If they want to make Elder Scrolls Online, make it like Elder Scrolls. It's that simple. Just because they can't get funding for DAOC 2 doesn't mean they have to shatter one of the greatest fantasy franchises' potential for an MMO by selfishly cannibalizing it.
And if they were making DAoC 2, you'd get an amazing game, possibly the best MMO on the market. But they're not. They're making WoW 1.2.
Err.. Where is the persistant, always on Frontiers-like area in WoW? With keeps that can be destroyed and taken permenantly? And the open dungeons? And the third faction?
I played WoW for quite some time... I missed that part.
And DAoC's UI is EXACTLY like WoW's, only older. Hotbars, cooldowns, chat windoes, tab targeting, you name it. Just done worse.
And if they were making DAoC 2, you'd get an amazing game, possibly the best MMO on the market. But they're not. They're making WoW 1.2.
Err.. Where is the persistant, always on Frontiers-like area in WoW? With keeps that can be destroyed and taken permenantly? And the open dungeons? And the third faction?
I played WoW for quite some time... I missed that part.
And DAoC's UI is EXACTLY like WoW's, only older. Hotbars, cooldowns, chat windoes, tab targeting, you name it. Just done worse.
How can you not see this as DAoC 2?
Because it's missing many of the things that made DAoC great, and it's RIDDLED with instancing and phasing, which DAoC did not have in its best years, and started going downhill after they got it.
And no, DAoC did not have the same UI as WoW, it was a lot better, and more moddable.
Open dungeons don't mean anything when you've also got instances and solo oriented quest chains around every corner.
I dont get why people are still holding DAOC up to be such a great game. It wasnt.
It was a niche game that never got over 250k players and was constantly in some sort of Over Powered - Nerfed - Over Powered - Nerfed balancing act that Mythic could never get right.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
I dont get why people are still holding DAOC up to be such a great game. It wasnt.
It was a niche game that never got over 250k players and was constantly in some sort of Over Powered - Nerfed - Over Powered - Nerfed balancing act that Mythic could never get right.
Niche? It was in the top 3 MMORPGs of the time, in terms of subscribers, and pioneered many features that are now standard today, as well as having the best PvP system and raiding systems to date.
The PvP balance was constantly being reworked, sure, but that didn't break the game. Balance issues exist all the time in PvP oriented games. Starcraft and LoL both get regular patches because they can't "get it right".
I dont get why people are still holding DAOC up to be such a great game. It wasnt.
It was a niche game that never got over 250k players and was constantly in some sort of Over Powered - Nerfed - Over Powered - Nerfed balancing act that Mythic could never get right.
Niche? It was in the top 3 MMORPGs of the time, in terms of subscribers, and pioneered many features that are now standard today, as well as having the best PvP system and raiding systems to date.
The PvP balance was constantly being reworked, sure, but that didn't break the game. Balance issues exist all the time in PvP oriented games. Starcraft and LoL both get regular patches because they can't "get it right".
So what was so bad about DAoC?
Thats only because there were just 5 MMOs out at the time. UO, EQ, AC, AO and DAOC and if AO wasnt so broken and buggy it would have retained more subs than DAOC.
Im not saying DAOC was a bad game. It wasnt SWTOR, but it wasnt this end-all-be-all game that some remember it to be.
It was MEH.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
I dont get why people are still holding DAOC up to be such a great game. It wasnt.
It was a niche game that never got over 250k players and was constantly in some sort of Over Powered - Nerfed - Over Powered - Nerfed balancing act that Mythic could never get right.
Niche? It was in the top 3 MMORPGs of the time, in terms of subscribers, and pioneered many features that are now standard today, as well as having the best PvP system and raiding systems to date.
The PvP balance was constantly being reworked, sure, but that didn't break the game. Balance issues exist all the time in PvP oriented games. Starcraft and LoL both get regular patches because they can't "get it right".
So what was so bad about DAoC?
Thats only because there were just 5 MMOs out at the time. UO, EQ, AC, AO and DAOC and if AO wasnt so broken and buggy it would have retained more subs than DAOC.
Im not saying DAOC was a bad game. It wasnt SWTOR, but it wasnt this end-all-be-all game that some remember it to be.
It was MEH.
Off the top of my head...
Meridian 59, DAoC, UO, EverQuest, Asheron's Call, Asheron's Call 2, Final Fantasy 11, Lineage, Earth and Beyond, Star Wars Galaxies, Horizons, Runescape, City of Heroes, Anarchy Online, Second Life, Sims Online, Shadowbane, all existed with DAoC. And those are the successful well remembered titles.
DAoC was the pinnacle of PvP design, and solved almost all the design issues that EQ had (and that WoW inherited) without using any instances.
DAoC was EQ's rival back in the day. You don't have two games with a rivalry if one is a "niche" with no subscribers. That's like saying that Fallen Earth is WoW's rival.
EQ had the most subs, but it was far from the best of those early mmos. I hated it, grind grind grind, horrible elitist community, and well frankly boring.
It's much like now, wow has the most subs, but its no way near the best current mmo.
The most popular in any field of the arts is rarely the "best"
Originally posted by ShakyMo EQ had the most subs, but it was far from the best of those early mmos. I hated it, grind grind grind, horrible elitist community, and well frankly boring.
It's much like now, wow has the most subs, but its no way near the best current mmo.
The most popular in any field of the arts is rarely the "best"
EQ at least had a lot of unique features it could call its own. It had insane design flaws though, almost all of which DAoC fixed.
But WoW on the other hand has absolutely no features they can call their own.
Not saying it is. But I'm actually hoping ESO is as close to DAOC RvR as we've ever seen from an MMO. Am I the only one who feels this way?
I feel the opposite. If they want to make DAOC 2 make DAOC 2. If they want to make Elder Scrolls Online, make it like Elder Scrolls. It's that simple.
Just because they can't get funding for DAOC 2 doesn't mean they have to shatter one of the greatest fantasy franchises' potential for an MMO by selfishly cannibalizing it.
You do know this game will play nothing like the single player games, right?
And as far as DAoC 2 goes, they have one of the guys that worked on the PvP for the original DAoC working on this. If they can pull off the same RvR in this as they did in DAoC that will be a great plus for fans of this game and PvP in general.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Not saying it is. But I'm actually hoping ESO is as close to DAOC RvR as we've ever seen from an MMO. Am I the only one who feels this way?
I feel the opposite. If they want to make DAOC 2 make DAOC 2. If they want to make Elder Scrolls Online, make it like Elder Scrolls. It's that simple.
Just because they can't get funding for DAOC 2 doesn't mean they have to shatter one of the greatest fantasy franchises' potential for an MMO by selfishly cannibalizing it.
You do know this game will play nothing like the single player games, right?
And as far as DAoC 2 goes, they have one of the guys that worked on the PvP for the original DAoC working on this. If they can pull off the same RvR in this as they did in DAoC that will be a great plus for fans of this game and PvP in general.
It won't mean much because all the PvE will be instanced solo oriented garbage.
Not saying it is. But I'm actually hoping ESO is as close to DAOC RvR as we've ever seen from an MMO. Am I the only one who feels this way?
I feel the opposite. If they want to make DAOC 2 make DAOC 2. If they want to make Elder Scrolls Online, make it like Elder Scrolls. It's that simple.
Just because they can't get funding for DAOC 2 doesn't mean they have to shatter one of the greatest fantasy franchises' potential for an MMO by selfishly cannibalizing it.
You do know this game will play nothing like the single player games, right?
And as far as DAoC 2 goes, they have one of the guys that worked on the PvP for the original DAoC working on this. If they can pull off the same RvR in this as they did in DAoC that will be a great plus for fans of this game and PvP in general.
YES
we know it will not be like TES single player game. From this point forward I want the entire universe to understand some basic things.
1. us fans do understand that the game can not be 1000000% exactly like the TES single player game but we also understand that it can be very close.
2. we do understand and have ALWAYS understood that the game is being developed by a different firm than the TES single player game
3. We do understand that the developers own the rights to the game and if they want they can make all the characters into bobble heads and still call it TES.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
I think we agree.
I dont know DAoC pvp but in my mind clan vs clan declared war pvp is ideal.
If one doesnt want pvp then dont join a clan. 99% of what can be done in a clan can be done offline in a loose alliance anyway.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Seanmcad just to clarify do you mean that the ffa pvp would be between warring clans? Not just running around ganking people? So all guilds in a ffa or just guilds that have declared war?
I agree with what was said way back on the first page about the RVRVR and a stealth DAOC2.
I think GW2 is more what a modern DAOC2 would look like, less with hard factions and more with world vs world if you will.
Anway..if they want to do what DAOC did way back in the day it wont be by doing what DAOC did way back in the day...if that makes sense. Reason DAOC was awesome, was at the time, it was an actual unique mmorpg mechanic. Something modern games are completely void of.
If ES wants to be an epic game, it needs to drop the template/mold/playbook of all the past successes and take a risk, develop a completely unique mechanism...
the question is...does Zeni have th mental power and creative spark to actually create the first new MMORPG mechanic in like...a decade to think out side the box and deliver something unique? Im not talking about a rebirth and overhaul of an existing system like with dynamic events that seem to be the newest necro-mechanic (did anarchy online do that first with their alien invasions or were other games doing that back then too?)
Anyway...the problem with games today is they are the same great games we use to play during the first generation of 3D mmorpgs, they just combine it all and mash it up into one souless system of the SSDD weve been playing.
New mechanics, new system all unique and the games a win...rehash battlegrounds "massive persistant battlegounds" and RVRVR, dynamic events and get a bunch of people dissapointed a month after this game launches.
What i dont get is...games back from the lat 90's to the eary 2000's were pumping out such unique games each with a totally new mechanic and system so good that every game after had to do the same thing...what happend then that developers and companies cant just think of something new for once? Just off the top of my head i can think of 3 games that are the sum total of every game today: EQ with the pve and quests, DAOC with pvp, Anarchy online with instances and DE (yes was the first game to start that hated trend) and look at todays games, the sum total of those 3.
It has instances, singleplayer quests, and phasing.
Dark Age of Camelot had none of these and was a better game for it.
They advertise public dungeons, but public dungeons don't work when instances are available.
Never played DAOC tho i only heard good things about it, the studio that made DAOC is working on TESO if im not mistaken so i wont be suprised if they add some good DAOC inspired stuff.
Im the kind of person that thinks that new game that is coming out is going to be amazing without knowing anything about it, but i also never buy the game untill i have either tested it or heard good things about it.
I have really high hopes for TESO since i am really big fan of TES, i play Morrowind regularly and im having fun in Skyrim even tho i lost my first save :]
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Holy Flamin' Frost-Brand Gronk-Slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' Woundin' an' Returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-Out-Yer-Bum!! ~Planescape: Torment~
Now its looking like 33% daoc, 33% tes, 33% wow. Not so bloody great.
I'm very disappointed they've put in instances both pve and pvp. Why couldn't they have left it open world like tes and daoc.
I'm also disappointed it has classes. While the tes system has failed in mmos before - e.g darkfall. That doesn't mean they have to go the other way with hard classes and weapons changing skills like gw2. They should have used a progression system like either a) eves offline skilling or b) tsws ability wheel. Those would fit tes universe better.
Darkfall being a failure is questionable but that conversation aside one thing is for sure. The reasons many people dont like darkfall are almost completely universally shared and none of those reasons would require any major change to the basics of the game play.
My point being, tes online could very much be very close to darkfall. Just make some adjustments on skill gain and make it a little safer for those who are not intrested in FFA and its done.
and if Darkfall 2 takes care of those major issues and doesnt go kiddy park mainstream then tes online will not stand a chance against darkfall 2. but we shall see
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I think the best is just FFA between clans that have declared war on each other.
From playing Darkfall I found warfare pvp a LOT more fun then running around bothering people who werent intrested in being bothered. In fact, I had a standing rule to never do that. I was war only pvp player.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
FFA is important overal stradegy in war. (depeating your enamies resources) but other than that I agree. I do understand that TES is FFA inspired but when you factor in actual people, the sociopathic population is not large enough to hold a strong game population. That said, I think going totally rouge is fine but just make it harder to do.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Er... the TES system didn't fail in Darkfall.
And it's looking more like 89% WoW, 9% DAoC, 2% TES.
They're already butchering the lore and gameplay.
DAoC was a game without instances and the guy heading this project understands that for an MMO to be fun and interesting, it needs public dungeons. Then in the same breath he talks about how the world will be phased/instanced, and how there will be instanced dungeons. Kind of defeats the whole point. I imagine the higher ups funding the project lost their shit when he said he didn't want instances and they had to find a compromise somewhere, because man, that's really mixing signals.
And no, its ONE DAOC guy on the project, not Mythic.
@Red, care to explain what you mean?
Sure.
1. First and Third person real-time combat (plays exactly like Skyrim with a bit more polish).
2. Races are not locked into factions.
3. You can kill anyone at anytime and loot everything on their body.
4. A crime and punishment system that prevents #3 from becoming an easy life.
5. Factions can be joined by anyone of any race.
6. Player factions are creatable and can war with each other and/or join under the banner of an in-game faction.
7. Imperials are a playable race.
8. Faction war can still exist with the major factions but anyone can be neutral if they want.
9. Voiced characters (apparently we have that).
10. No classes. Just skills. (Or at the very least an option to create a custom class)
11. Housing for all players (instanced or not).
12. Quest-givers that don't indicate they are quest-givers, ie: you have to talk to people in order find out if they need help with anything.
13. Skill-based progression (not what is currently in ESO)
Yup! This is the base of an Elder Scrolls game, a base that ESO lacks.
I'd hardly call Darkfall a success.. It's a niche game for a niche audience, at best. And only 2 servers worldwide that are NOT over capacity. How many millions with an international IP do you think they'd want to throw at a niche? Not everyone likes the idea of a twitch-based combat with full loot. It works in single player TES games because you aren't getting ganked and looted by strangers when ping can play a factor. And then you just load up a save and haven't lost anything. That's a problem for a game with thousands of people.
The way they've describe instancing/phasing so far, yes, there will be some dungeons that are instanced, but most of what they talk about appears to be for story. In one of the videos, they talk about how you go back in time and fight some battle, and based on the decisions you make, some things change in the present for you. Phasing is ideal for this, but I understand your concern. I hope they have battlegrounds (Persistant, but isolated RvR zones) like in DAoC in concert with Cyrodil (Frontiers) more often than capture-the-flag type scenarios that are timed and scored.
And it's Matt Firor.. I'm farily certain he played a major, major role in RvR development. Sure, he's just 1 guy... But if Bill Gates went to work for Apple, and not all of Microsoft's founding members, you don't think people would take notice?
And besides, without Matt, MYTHIC made Warhammer...
That's pretty much Darkfall you just described.
And if they were making DAoC 2, you'd get an amazing game, possibly the best MMO on the market. But they're not. They're making WoW 1.2.
Err.. Where is the persistant, always on Frontiers-like area in WoW? With keeps that can be destroyed and taken permenantly? And the open dungeons? And the third faction?
I played WoW for quite some time... I missed that part.
And DAoC's UI is EXACTLY like WoW's, only older. Hotbars, cooldowns, chat windoes, tab targeting, you name it. Just done worse.
How can you not see this as DAoC 2?
Because it's missing many of the things that made DAoC great, and it's RIDDLED with instancing and phasing, which DAoC did not have in its best years, and started going downhill after they got it.
And no, DAoC did not have the same UI as WoW, it was a lot better, and more moddable.
Open dungeons don't mean anything when you've also got instances and solo oriented quest chains around every corner.
I dont get why people are still holding DAOC up to be such a great game. It wasnt.
It was a niche game that never got over 250k players and was constantly in some sort of Over Powered - Nerfed - Over Powered - Nerfed balancing act that Mythic could never get right.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Niche? It was in the top 3 MMORPGs of the time, in terms of subscribers, and pioneered many features that are now standard today, as well as having the best PvP system and raiding systems to date.
The PvP balance was constantly being reworked, sure, but that didn't break the game. Balance issues exist all the time in PvP oriented games. Starcraft and LoL both get regular patches because they can't "get it right".
So what was so bad about DAoC?
Thats only because there were just 5 MMOs out at the time. UO, EQ, AC, AO and DAOC and if AO wasnt so broken and buggy it would have retained more subs than DAOC.
Im not saying DAOC was a bad game. It wasnt SWTOR, but it wasnt this end-all-be-all game that some remember it to be.
It was MEH.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Off the top of my head...
Meridian 59, DAoC, UO, EverQuest, Asheron's Call, Asheron's Call 2, Final Fantasy 11, Lineage, Earth and Beyond, Star Wars Galaxies, Horizons, Runescape, City of Heroes, Anarchy Online, Second Life, Sims Online, Shadowbane, all existed with DAoC. And those are the successful well remembered titles.
DAoC was the pinnacle of PvP design, and solved almost all the design issues that EQ had (and that WoW inherited) without using any instances.
DAoC was EQ's rival back in the day. You don't have two games with a rivalry if one is a "niche" with no subscribers. That's like saying that Fallen Earth is WoW's rival.
It's much like now, wow has the most subs, but its no way near the best current mmo.
The most popular in any field of the arts is rarely the "best"
EQ at least had a lot of unique features it could call its own. It had insane design flaws though, almost all of which DAoC fixed.
But WoW on the other hand has absolutely no features they can call their own.
You do know this game will play nothing like the single player games, right?
And as far as DAoC 2 goes, they have one of the guys that worked on the PvP for the original DAoC working on this. If they can pull off the same RvR in this as they did in DAoC that will be a great plus for fans of this game and PvP in general.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
It won't mean much because all the PvE will be instanced solo oriented garbage.
YES
we know it will not be like TES single player game. From this point forward I want the entire universe to understand some basic things.
1. us fans do understand that the game can not be 1000000% exactly like the TES single player game but we also understand that it can be very close.
2. we do understand and have ALWAYS understood that the game is being developed by a different firm than the TES single player game
3. We do understand that the developers own the rights to the game and if they want they can make all the characters into bobble heads and still call it TES.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me