1. A connection to my character. I am not a huge RPG gamer in general but I still want to feel like my MMO character is mine. This starts with customization at creation and continues with some kind of progression system (gear or stats or something similar).
2. Competitive repeatable content. Raids that are challenging and take time to complete and PVP which encourages me to constantly practice to improve my skills. A game with a very low skill-cap just gets boring too quickly.
3. Most importantly, a vibrant game world and community. I want to encounter random players out in the world and sometimes have to fight them. I want the game world to feel like it exists independently of me (this is the complete opposite of a single-player game). The world should feel like a massive world to explore and experience and not a yellow brick road to follow.
It really depends on the target audience. One person's fun is another person's ick, and trying to be all things to all people is going to be way too expensive unless you are Blizzard.
So, depending on the individual player, here's a list of things that keep the people I know across a half dozen mmos subbing (in alphabetical order):
I'm not playing to connect with a character, I'm playing a game. I don't play Halo to feel a connection to Master Chief. If I want to roleplay, I'll sit down around a table with a bunch of friends and do so.
If you want zero RP I suggest you don't play mmoRPGs anymore.
A connection with your character is the very least of RP and pretty basic in an MMORPG.
There is no roleplaying in these games. In fact, there really hasn't been any serious RPing in MMORPGs in... well, forever. They're just not built for them.
I agree. I did a race change on a character that had a decent RP backstory and established personality. Later I felt bad about the choice so I took a different toon of the same class and reconstructed my old one. It felt good to get him back, an indication of the attachment you speak of.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
For me, it would be simple. If there were continuously new quests and levels. The #1 reason I play an MMO is to do quests and level up. I enjoy NEW content and I crave the satisfaction of gaining levels, experience, new gear, etc. That's why I play, and that's why I quit as soon as I've done the majority of the quests. Sure, I PVP for a month or two, level my crafting as I go, do dailies if there is a particularly cool item mount/pet/etc, but basically as soon as I've done all the questing content, it's time to quit cuz now I'm bored. If there are different starting zones with different quests for different races, I will level the appropriate character to that point. But of course, it is impossible for a game company to continously create new content at the pace that we go through it. Maybe if all the MMOs out there pooled into 1 enormous MMO that continuously put out new content...so yeah...that's my suggestion...create one enormous MMO that adds like 10 new levels of content per month...haha
I would list the things that ***I*** like in an MMO but I like seeing things in MMOs that I dont even take part in because I know for an MMO to have a strong stable playerbase it will require a bunch of content for most player types.
I have noticed I am in the minority in being able to admit that...I hate seeing people shoot someone down when they are asking for more types of content in a game, its moronic to want the game you love to be limited in any way shape or form and in the end it ends up hurting the game.
I have noticed I am in the minority in being able to admit that...I hate seeing people shoot someone down when they are asking for more types of content in a game, its moronic to want the game you love to be limited in any way shape or form and in the end it ends up hurting the game.
Nobody is shooting anyone down for asking, we're telling them why it's unrealistic to expect to get it. That's the problem, far too many people around here think just wanting something is enough to warrant getting it. They don't comprehend the basic business behind MMOs. They don't care. All they think of is themselves.
For me to sub to an MMO for longer then a couple months I need 3 things.
First I need to feel that the character I am playing is my chracter and is different from every other class X/Race Y. When you make a class story that I have follow I lose that, when you make one only combat style vibable I lose that, when I am changing clothes every damn quest and I have only one choice of final armor I lose that.
Secondly I need to care about the poeple I am playing with. Does guild help? Sure. But in both SWG and my first run at WoW I didn't need to be in a guild to care about who I was playing with. In SWG I bought my weapons and armor from the same stores, I got to know my doctor and entertainer, I got to know the runs of the town near my house, etc... It wasn't to that degree in WoW but I did get to know the the poeple I raided with and it wasn't uncommon to get tells inviting me to raid with them again. I also got to know and hate who I fighting weither it was a southshore rate or a base raid in SWG I know who I was fighting and why, it wasn't just some nameless snowflake or horde in a guild I didn't care about.
Last I need a hard goal or a goal I can't really complete. Weither it be defeat the snowflakes, by destoring their bases, or beating Onyxia 40 man. If there is no challenge, there is no game for me. I want the game to be hard, I WANT to die. I nearly preordered TSW because it was hard. Was it as hard SWG or WoW was? Nope but it was a heck of alot harder then any game since BC. Also I like grind, i get bored easily with a game if just giving me loot and levels, the reward comes from working towards a goal and getting it not just being handed it.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
I have noticed I am in the minority in being able to admit that...I hate seeing people shoot someone down when they are asking for more types of content in a game, its moronic to want the game you love to be limited in any way shape or form and in the end it ends up hurting the game.
Nobody is shooting anyone down for asking, we're telling them why it's unrealistic to expect to get it. That's the problem, far too many people around here think just wanting something is enough to warrant getting it. They don't comprehend the basic business behind MMOs. They don't care. All they think of is themselves.
It's just not realistic.
Its not realistic because of GAMERS that came into the genre over the last 7 years that never took part in an MMO that did not cater to more player types...even WoW, which has been labeled as the game that destroyed the genre actually had a massive variety of gameplay that is sorely lacking in the so called WoW clones that came after it.
You, thinking it isnt possible, telling people that it isnt, is what is allowing game makers to continue to make craptastic MMOs...youll keep buying them, subbing for 3-6 months and leaving acting like you are on the rag about how bad the genre has become.
It is this way because of you defending companies making crap games.
SWTOR wouldnt have had a mass excodus if the game wasnt so god damn shallow and lacking in things to do...things that only come with VARIETY...the thing you say is now somehow impossible to have.
I have noticed I am in the minority in being able to admit that...I hate seeing people shoot someone down when they are asking for more types of content in a game, its moronic to want the game you love to be limited in any way shape or form and in the end it ends up hurting the game.
Nobody is shooting anyone down for asking, we're telling them why it's unrealistic to expect to get it. That's the problem, far too many people around here think just wanting something is enough to warrant getting it. They don't comprehend the basic business behind MMOs. They don't care. All they think of is themselves.
It's just not realistic.
Its not realistic because of GAMERS that came into the genre over the last 7 years that never took part in an MMO that did not cater to more player types...even WoW, which has been labeled as the game that destroyed the genre actually had a massive variety of gameplay that is sorely lacking in the so called WoW clones that came after it.
You, thinking it isnt possible, telling people that it isnt, is what is allowing game makers to continue to make craptastic MMOs...youll keep buying them, subbing for 3-6 months and leaving acting like you are on the rag about how bad the genre has become.
It is this way because of you defending companies making crap games.
SWTOR wouldnt have had a mass excodus if the game wasnt so god damn shallow and lacking in things to do...things that only come with VARIETY...the thing you say is now somehow impossible to have.
Cephus is aiming to be this forum's Debbie Downer, I would say. He tends to be negative in a lot of threads merely because he dislikes that people want things that are likely not the biggest mainstream desires. In this, he is rather defeating the purpose of ideas and innovation in MMO's, so I can not understand myself what he wants from a forum like this.
My blog is a continuing story of what MMO's should be like.
One singular thing that would keep anyone happy period, is this:
A Dynamic World
This would fulfill pretty much everyone's desires, as you allow for everyone to have the ability to change the world around them, and if done correctly, takes the focus of content development off the developers, and allows them to focus on new tools and abilities for their players, as well as more diversity. You can even themepark it a bit, but at the end of the day when the dev-implemented quests are done, people are able to play through the world how they want to.
Unfortunately, that's a disaster in the making unless done very, very carefully. First off, it's not going to make a lot of people happy because a lot of people, like the pro-groupers and the pro-permadeathers, are only going to be happy if they can force their playstyle on everyone else. Unless their playstyle and only their playstyle is allowed, they're miserable.
Secondly, I'm really not comfortable with everyone being able to "change the world". Sure, if it's limited to very small, insignificant things, then fine. Have a house. Put stuff in it. Craft some stuff and sell it. Do whatever you want in your house. But if you start allowing people to create whatever they want out in public areas, it's going to be a disaster. It's one thing for the devs to create a single, focused view, but quite another to allow a thousand people to create a thousand different views. If you have to police it, it's no less work than just letting the devs do it all.
Well, I would think it is obvious it has to be done carefully. Also, what exactly are you concerned about as far as changing the world goes?
My blog is a continuing story of what MMO's should be like.
One singular thing that would keep anyone happy period, is this:
A Dynamic World
This would fulfill pretty much everyone's desires, as you allow for everyone to have the ability to change the world around them, and if done correctly, takes the focus of content development off the developers, and allows them to focus on new tools and abilities for their players, as well as more diversity. You can even themepark it a bit, but at the end of the day when the dev-implemented quests are done, people are able to play through the world how they want to.
Unfortunately, that's a disaster in the making unless done very, very carefully. First off, it's not going to make a lot of people happy because a lot of people, like the pro-groupers and the pro-permadeathers, are only going to be happy if they can force their playstyle on everyone else. Unless their playstyle and only their playstyle is allowed, they're miserable.
Secondly, I'm really not comfortable with everyone being able to "change the world". Sure, if it's limited to very small, insignificant things, then fine. Have a house. Put stuff in it. Craft some stuff and sell it. Do whatever you want in your house. But if you start allowing people to create whatever they want out in public areas, it's going to be a disaster. It's one thing for the devs to create a single, focused view, but quite another to allow a thousand people to create a thousand different views. If you have to police it, it's no less work than just letting the devs do it all.
Well, I would think it is obvious it has to be done carefully. Also, what exactly are you concerned about as far as changing the world goes?
Well for one you lose the handcrafted, careful, inspired, attention to detail you find in games with an inspired team behind them. On the other hand, sandbox games are great for sandbox games.
There's a reason the two genres don't merge much. They're both awesome in their own right but in merging there's a lot to be lost.
In reading through the most recent "player housing" thread I got to wondering, what sort of features that a MMORPG can have actually encourage players to sub for longer periods of time. (F2P/BTP is a different thing altogether)
Right off the top, slower leveling (or progression) curves would keep people subbed for longer, but its a bit of a two edged sword, I think the falloff of players is almost directly proportional to the leveling curve, the steeper it goes, the more people drop off in frustration. Hard to find the right mix I suppose.
It was mentioned that some players are willing to stay subbed, in order to work/maintain their housing efforts, I recall many of my old clanmates in DAOC/Mordred keeping their subs for quite some time after leaving just so the guild town would be retained.
Of course, EVE's real time training is a solid way to keep people subbed, during leaves of absences to try other games I kept my 3 subs rolling strong because I had endless skills to keep training. Needless to say, this doesn't appeal to everyone though.
So those are few I came up with, and I was wondering what other features might encourage people to stay subbed for longer periods of times than what appears to be the current model of 3 months of subs or less and they're done and moving on.
(Bet there's some Dev teams out there that are struggling with this same idea right now)
Well i would agree that leveling pace/speed can be a cause of fall off in players it would actually i think fall more to how much entertaining content you have in the game to play thru those levels (no offense but to many players grinding repetitive content weither mob farming, or questing is not fun)., and yet too fast a pace leads to either the player leaving at cap orforcing the devs to put out sub-par content for them to do. Making content that is difficult so that it take much longer to get your character thru it,a nd allowing it to further extend the sub times.
A steady pace of content releases as well as updates, such as adjusting or changing quests to reflect changes in the world, or to keep content challenging. Like bosses that evolve as the patches go on changing tactics or even their whole fight style, while making the players to adapt to the new boss strats too giving the players more replayability of the content. Adding changing effects to even mobs would help.
More choices in ways of playing the game ranging from more professions, classes, even f you need to actually do combat at all in the game. I mean having classes/builds with strict ways of doing their jobs makes for repetitive play (the enemy of having fun and staying fun r fresh feeling.), so for an example would be tanks that use the comon meat-shield approuch, adding tanks that are evasion or redirecction based would help to add sub time to the game for players wanting to stay. Adding prestiege type classes or titles that you an gain via factions, actions, quests, hidden achievements is anotherthigns. Like becoming a arch-mage thru a quest that tell more about the history of magic in the game, and such.
Lore is another huge part for more players, the more indepth the lore the more interesting it is for those players. Also give layers the ability to role play much more,a nd create better characters for the game, giving the layers tools to create role playes for their characters. I know many players that have spent years in games just for the prolonged ability to role play thier characters more in that world.
In reading through the most recent "player housing" thread I got to wondering, what sort of features that a MMORPG can have actually encourage players to sub for longer periods of time. (F2P/BTP is a different thing altogether)
Right off the top, slower leveling (or progression) curves would keep people subbed for longer, but its a bit of a two edged sword, I think the falloff of players is almost directly proportional to the leveling curve, the steeper it goes, the more people drop off in frustration. Hard to find the right mix I suppose.
It was mentioned that some players are willing to stay subbed, in order to work/maintain their housing efforts, I recall many of my old clanmates in DAOC/Mordred keeping their subs for quite some time after leaving just so the guild town would be retained.
Of course, EVE's real time training is a solid way to keep people subbed, during leaves of absences to try other games I kept my 3 subs rolling strong because I had endless skills to keep training. Needless to say, this doesn't appeal to everyone though.
So those are few I came up with, and I was wondering what other features might encourage people to stay subbed for longer periods of times than what appears to be the current model of 3 months of subs or less and they're done and moving on.
(Bet there's some Dev teams out there that are struggling with this same idea right now)
People have to be given ownership, they need to have the freedom to play the way they want to achieve the illusion of roleplaying.
Overly scripted, or anything with the potential to even have an endgame is doomed, you cant keep people around with dailies and the hope of a new dungeon or warzone, in essence content.
As soon as the developers start talking about content you need to start worrying, it is the telling signature that they have a ride picked out for you and hope that they can keep laying the tracks infront so you dont get derailed.
Even if for example 10 ppl here would agree on that kind of list, there would be people out there for which those would be "quit-on-sight" list.
But isn't that an important part of the equation?
I agree with you that you can't satisfy everyone and that trying to please everyone can end up pleasing nobody, but I think that's more important in finding your niche in the first place. Once you have people actually playing your game (even if they aren't the audience you originally intended to attract) and are talking about retention, then I tend to believe that a publisher is smarter to aim for being inoffensive. If you choose to consciously alienate half your players, you have to be very sure the other half are going to spend enough to make up the difference.
Agreed.
Think we think about this topic from diffrent perspective.
You seem to think about modyfying already released game to make current playerbase stay longer.
I wrote my list for completly new unreleased game and was discussing from that standpoint.
I agree that making huge changes to a game that alienate half of it's existing playerbase is very very risky and actually I am not a big fan of it. Best even if overused example is NGE thing for SWG.
Making 'reverse' change (put huge sandbox overhaul to themepark game) would be as much disaster as making themepark overhaul to sandbox game which took place with NGE.
With alrady released games better thing is to make current design better than to dramatically shift it and changing game to someting entirelly diffrent.
I might be wrong but think most people was thinking like me - they made their proposal for some unnamed new game, rather than list of things to add to some existing one.
Obviously I for example would NOT want to all upcoming mmorpg's to use my list. Why?
Cause it would oversaturate market for that kind of games and made all / most of them fail, which would be obviously very bad for me personally as well.
2-3 bigger productions like that would be ok.
Hell atm I would be content with just 1 like that providing it would be 3rd person view and about directing actual character (and not flying a speceship all the time).
I'm not playing to connect with a character, I'm playing a game. I don't play Halo to feel a connection to Master Chief. If I want to roleplay, I'll sit down around a table with a bunch of friends and do so.
Well that's you.
I am sure that there are lots of mmorpg players like you.
There are also quite a bit of players that play to 'feel a connection' and that treat mmorpg diffrently than playing an FPS.
Even if that does not mean that they will RP.
======================================
Thing is devs are trying to provide same game for both of those groups of players which ultimately does not satisfy any of them and then game fail. Devs still release all 'bigger' mmorpg's hoping that they will have millions of players.
Cut down budgets by cutting out cinematic animated intros, limiting amount of VO's and on marketting.
Then shoot for 300-500k of subs.
Before "they said that they would be ok with 500k subs for Swtor".
No they would not be ok, they would break even. EA-Bioware was shooting / hoping for much more and they admitted it.
One singular thing that would keep anyone happy period, is this:
A Dynamic World
This would fulfill pretty much everyone's desires, as you allow for everyone to have the ability to change the world around them, and if done correctly, takes the focus of content development off the developers, and allows them to focus on new tools and abilities for their players, as well as more diversity. You can even themepark it a bit, but at the end of the day when the dev-implemented quests are done, people are able to play through the world how they want to.
Unfortunately, that's a disaster in the making unless done very, very carefully. First off, it's not going to make a lot of people happy because a lot of people, like the pro-groupers and the pro-permadeathers, are only going to be happy if they can force their playstyle on everyone else. Unless their playstyle and only their playstyle is allowed, they're miserable.
Secondly, I'm really not comfortable with everyone being able to "change the world". Sure, if it's limited to very small, insignificant things, then fine. Have a house. Put stuff in it. Craft some stuff and sell it. Do whatever you want in your house. But if you start allowing people to create whatever they want out in public areas, it's going to be a disaster. It's one thing for the devs to create a single, focused view, but quite another to allow a thousand people to create a thousand different views. If you have to police it, it's no less work than just letting the devs do it all.
Well, I would think it is obvious it has to be done carefully. Also, what exactly are you concerned about as far as changing the world goes?
Well for one you lose the handcrafted, careful, inspired, attention to detail you find in games with an inspired team behind them. On the other hand, sandbox games are great for sandbox games.
There's a reason the two genres don't merge much. They're both awesome in their own right but in merging there's a lot to be lost.
Why would you lose it? Because you allow players to modify the content there? I would hardly say that is losing the content at all. Developers can still handcraft lots of content, and if it is truly worth it, then it will likely be untouched by players. Or, if the worry is so great, simply lock off certain parts of the world from being changed, and allow change elsewhere.
My blog is a continuing story of what MMO's should be like.
Q: What features/functionalities encourage players to sub longer?
A: The feeling that the game in question is home.
Many great ideas/answers in this thread, and its obvious I was focusing to much on mechanics in my OP when the overall trend I see in many replies is that a MMO has provide a means for players to "care" about staying subbed to the game.
As you said, making the world feel like home can be important, but others stay subbed because they are attached to their characters, their guildmates, their houses, their pets or any of a number of things.
Way back in Lineage 1 I recall having a couple of dobermans that I actually tamed in the wild, then they leveled up with me from level 10 to 42. I had to feed them, rez them when they died, recall losing one because I fell asleep, he got hungry and wandered off, permanently, felt real loss from that. I eventually sold them for big cash, but actually regretted it, they had become almost like friends, might have stayed longer if I hadn't.
Silly example perhaps, but only one of many reasons that I enjoyed playing an MMORPG and stayed subbed for a period of time.
One person asked why it mattered if players stayed subbed, after all, it seems to be a F2P world these days. Well, I still feel there's a market for a MMORPG where players stick around for more than 3 months, (EVE proves this, and WOW of course) and they don't need to be played like single player games which is where the current titles seem to be turning into, at least for most players.
I'm currently playing TERA, and while I've had a few months of fun, I can't see myself staying with it for more than month or two longer. (probably leave after I level my 2nd character to 50). Even though I'm with a good guild that isn't enough, there are not enough features/gameplay mechanics that I enjoy (think DAOC, EVE, SB, Lineage 1/2 for what I like) to stick around long term.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
nothing all p2p and f2p work the same both have patch or expantion sub game basicallys tole from people that are willing to let get rob.i never see a game whit diferent maintance or patch from a p2p ty god gw2 will already changing that and all p2p game are keep dying faster and faster till more people realise we dont need to pay to have fun.
nothing all p2p and f2p work the same both have patch or expantion sub game basicallys tole from people that are willing to let get rob.i never see a game whit diferent maintance or patch from a p2p ty god gw2 will already changing that and all p2p game are keep dying faster and faster till more people realise we dont need to pay to have fun.
You seem to think about modyfying already released game to make current playerbase stay longer.
I wrote my list for completly new unreleased game and was discussing from that standpoint.
That's reasonable and can agree with you. I think we understand each other and have resolved all significant disagreements. I am content with the progress and resolution of this conversation.
I'm not playing to connect with a character, I'm playing a game. I don't play Halo to feel a connection to Master Chief. If I want to roleplay, I'll sit down around a table with a bunch of friends and do so.
If you want zero RP I suggest you don't play mmoRPGs anymore.
A connection with your character is the very least of RP and pretty basic in an MMORPG.
Hmm .. most players don't RP in MMOs. People play it for the epeen, the power, the progression. I have yet to meet someone in-game who claim he feels like his toon. Usually someone pick a class because they like its cool abilities.
Everyone complains about them, but I complain about everything being handed out. Its like the special olympics. vs the real olympics. one is just about making mentally handicap people feel good while the real one is about hard work and dedication, when you win gold you have really accomplished something, your the creem of the crop. These theme parks now a days is the special olympics of MMO's
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Comments
In order to sub to a MMO I need a few things:
1. A connection to my character. I am not a huge RPG gamer in general but I still want to feel like my MMO character is mine. This starts with customization at creation and continues with some kind of progression system (gear or stats or something similar).
2. Competitive repeatable content. Raids that are challenging and take time to complete and PVP which encourages me to constantly practice to improve my skills. A game with a very low skill-cap just gets boring too quickly.
3. Most importantly, a vibrant game world and community. I want to encounter random players out in the world and sometimes have to fight them. I want the game world to feel like it exists independently of me (this is the complete opposite of a single-player game). The world should feel like a massive world to explore and experience and not a yellow brick road to follow.
Anything else is just a minor concern.
It really depends on the target audience. One person's fun is another person's ick, and trying to be all things to all people is going to be way too expensive unless you are Blizzard.
So, depending on the individual player, here's a list of things that keep the people I know across a half dozen mmos subbing (in alphabetical order):
There is no roleplaying in these games. In fact, there really hasn't been any serious RPing in MMORPGs in... well, forever. They're just not built for them.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I agree. I did a race change on a character that had a decent RP backstory and established personality. Later I felt bad about the choice so I took a different toon of the same class and reconstructed my old one. It felt good to get him back, an indication of the attachment you speak of.
For me, it would be simple. If there were continuously new quests and levels. The #1 reason I play an MMO is to do quests and level up. I enjoy NEW content and I crave the satisfaction of gaining levels, experience, new gear, etc. That's why I play, and that's why I quit as soon as I've done the majority of the quests. Sure, I PVP for a month or two, level my crafting as I go, do dailies if there is a particularly cool item mount/pet/etc, but basically as soon as I've done all the questing content, it's time to quit cuz now I'm bored. If there are different starting zones with different quests for different races, I will level the appropriate character to that point. But of course, it is impossible for a game company to continously create new content at the pace that we go through it. Maybe if all the MMOs out there pooled into 1 enormous MMO that continuously put out new content...so yeah...that's my suggestion...create one enormous MMO that adds like 10 new levels of content per month...haha
Everything.
I would list the things that ***I*** like in an MMO but I like seeing things in MMOs that I dont even take part in because I know for an MMO to have a strong stable playerbase it will require a bunch of content for most player types.
I have noticed I am in the minority in being able to admit that...I hate seeing people shoot someone down when they are asking for more types of content in a game, its moronic to want the game you love to be limited in any way shape or form and in the end it ends up hurting the game.
Nobody is shooting anyone down for asking, we're telling them why it's unrealistic to expect to get it. That's the problem, far too many people around here think just wanting something is enough to warrant getting it. They don't comprehend the basic business behind MMOs. They don't care. All they think of is themselves.
It's just not realistic.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
For me to sub to an MMO for longer then a couple months I need 3 things.
First I need to feel that the character I am playing is my chracter and is different from every other class X/Race Y. When you make a class story that I have follow I lose that, when you make one only combat style vibable I lose that, when I am changing clothes every damn quest and I have only one choice of final armor I lose that.
Secondly I need to care about the poeple I am playing with. Does guild help? Sure. But in both SWG and my first run at WoW I didn't need to be in a guild to care about who I was playing with. In SWG I bought my weapons and armor from the same stores, I got to know my doctor and entertainer, I got to know the runs of the town near my house, etc... It wasn't to that degree in WoW but I did get to know the the poeple I raided with and it wasn't uncommon to get tells inviting me to raid with them again. I also got to know and hate who I fighting weither it was a southshore rate or a base raid in SWG I know who I was fighting and why, it wasn't just some nameless snowflake or horde in a guild I didn't care about.
Last I need a hard goal or a goal I can't really complete. Weither it be defeat the snowflakes, by destoring their bases, or beating Onyxia 40 man. If there is no challenge, there is no game for me. I want the game to be hard, I WANT to die. I nearly preordered TSW because it was hard. Was it as hard SWG or WoW was? Nope but it was a heck of alot harder then any game since BC. Also I like grind, i get bored easily with a game if just giving me loot and levels, the reward comes from working towards a goal and getting it not just being handed it.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Its not realistic because of GAMERS that came into the genre over the last 7 years that never took part in an MMO that did not cater to more player types...even WoW, which has been labeled as the game that destroyed the genre actually had a massive variety of gameplay that is sorely lacking in the so called WoW clones that came after it.
You, thinking it isnt possible, telling people that it isnt, is what is allowing game makers to continue to make craptastic MMOs...youll keep buying them, subbing for 3-6 months and leaving acting like you are on the rag about how bad the genre has become.
It is this way because of you defending companies making crap games.
SWTOR wouldnt have had a mass excodus if the game wasnt so god damn shallow and lacking in things to do...things that only come with VARIETY...the thing you say is now somehow impossible to have.
Cephus is aiming to be this forum's Debbie Downer, I would say. He tends to be negative in a lot of threads merely because he dislikes that people want things that are likely not the biggest mainstream desires. In this, he is rather defeating the purpose of ideas and innovation in MMO's, so I can not understand myself what he wants from a forum like this.
My blog is a continuing story of what MMO's should be like.
Q: What features/functionalities encourage players to sub longer?
A: The feeling that the game in question is home.
Well, I would think it is obvious it has to be done carefully. Also, what exactly are you concerned about as far as changing the world goes?
My blog is a continuing story of what MMO's should be like.
Well for one you lose the handcrafted, careful, inspired, attention to detail you find in games with an inspired team behind them. On the other hand, sandbox games are great for sandbox games.
There's a reason the two genres don't merge much. They're both awesome in their own right but in merging there's a lot to be lost.
Well i would agree that leveling pace/speed can be a cause of fall off in players it would actually i think fall more to how much entertaining content you have in the game to play thru those levels (no offense but to many players grinding repetitive content weither mob farming, or questing is not fun)., and yet too fast a pace leads to either the player leaving at cap orforcing the devs to put out sub-par content for them to do. Making content that is difficult so that it take much longer to get your character thru it,a nd allowing it to further extend the sub times.
A steady pace of content releases as well as updates, such as adjusting or changing quests to reflect changes in the world, or to keep content challenging. Like bosses that evolve as the patches go on changing tactics or even their whole fight style, while making the players to adapt to the new boss strats too giving the players more replayability of the content. Adding changing effects to even mobs would help.
More choices in ways of playing the game ranging from more professions, classes, even f you need to actually do combat at all in the game. I mean having classes/builds with strict ways of doing their jobs makes for repetitive play (the enemy of having fun and staying fun r fresh feeling.), so for an example would be tanks that use the comon meat-shield approuch, adding tanks that are evasion or redirecction based would help to add sub time to the game for players wanting to stay. Adding prestiege type classes or titles that you an gain via factions, actions, quests, hidden achievements is anotherthigns. Like becoming a arch-mage thru a quest that tell more about the history of magic in the game, and such.
Lore is another huge part for more players, the more indepth the lore the more interesting it is for those players. Also give layers the ability to role play much more,a nd create better characters for the game, giving the layers tools to create role playes for their characters. I know many players that have spent years in games just for the prolonged ability to role play thier characters more in that world.
People have to be given ownership, they need to have the freedom to play the way they want to achieve the illusion of roleplaying.
Overly scripted, or anything with the potential to even have an endgame is doomed, you cant keep people around with dailies and the hope of a new dungeon or warzone, in essence content.
As soon as the developers start talking about content you need to start worrying, it is the telling signature that they have a ride picked out for you and hope that they can keep laying the tracks infront so you dont get derailed.
Agreed.
Think we think about this topic from diffrent perspective.
You seem to think about modyfying already released game to make current playerbase stay longer.
I wrote my list for completly new unreleased game and was discussing from that standpoint.
I agree that making huge changes to a game that alienate half of it's existing playerbase is very very risky and actually I am not a big fan of it. Best even if overused example is NGE thing for SWG.
Making 'reverse' change (put huge sandbox overhaul to themepark game) would be as much disaster as making themepark overhaul to sandbox game which took place with NGE.
With alrady released games better thing is to make current design better than to dramatically shift it and changing game to someting entirelly diffrent.
I might be wrong but think most people was thinking like me - they made their proposal for some unnamed new game, rather than list of things to add to some existing one.
Obviously I for example would NOT want to all upcoming mmorpg's to use my list. Why?
Cause it would oversaturate market for that kind of games and made all / most of them fail, which would be obviously very bad for me personally as well.
2-3 bigger productions like that would be ok.
Hell atm I would be content with just 1 like that providing it would be 3rd person view and about directing actual character (and not flying a speceship all the time).
Well that's you.
I am sure that there are lots of mmorpg players like you.
There are also quite a bit of players that play to 'feel a connection' and that treat mmorpg diffrently than playing an FPS.
Even if that does not mean that they will RP.
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Thing is devs are trying to provide same game for both of those groups of players which ultimately does not satisfy any of them and then game fail. Devs still release all 'bigger' mmorpg's hoping that they will have millions of players.
Cut down budgets by cutting out cinematic animated intros, limiting amount of VO's and on marketting.
Then shoot for 300-500k of subs.
Before "they said that they would be ok with 500k subs for Swtor".
No they would not be ok, they would break even. EA-Bioware was shooting / hoping for much more and they admitted it.
Why would you lose it? Because you allow players to modify the content there? I would hardly say that is losing the content at all. Developers can still handcraft lots of content, and if it is truly worth it, then it will likely be untouched by players. Or, if the worry is so great, simply lock off certain parts of the world from being changed, and allow change elsewhere.
My blog is a continuing story of what MMO's should be like.
Many great ideas/answers in this thread, and its obvious I was focusing to much on mechanics in my OP when the overall trend I see in many replies is that a MMO has provide a means for players to "care" about staying subbed to the game.
As you said, making the world feel like home can be important, but others stay subbed because they are attached to their characters, their guildmates, their houses, their pets or any of a number of things.
Way back in Lineage 1 I recall having a couple of dobermans that I actually tamed in the wild, then they leveled up with me from level 10 to 42. I had to feed them, rez them when they died, recall losing one because I fell asleep, he got hungry and wandered off, permanently, felt real loss from that. I eventually sold them for big cash, but actually regretted it, they had become almost like friends, might have stayed longer if I hadn't.
Silly example perhaps, but only one of many reasons that I enjoyed playing an MMORPG and stayed subbed for a period of time.
One person asked why it mattered if players stayed subbed, after all, it seems to be a F2P world these days. Well, I still feel there's a market for a MMORPG where players stick around for more than 3 months, (EVE proves this, and WOW of course) and they don't need to be played like single player games which is where the current titles seem to be turning into, at least for most players.
I'm currently playing TERA, and while I've had a few months of fun, I can't see myself staying with it for more than month or two longer. (probably leave after I level my 2nd character to 50). Even though I'm with a good guild that isn't enough, there are not enough features/gameplay mechanics that I enjoy (think DAOC, EVE, SB, Lineage 1/2 for what I like) to stick around long term.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What features/functionality encourage players to sub longer?
nothing all p2p and f2p work the same both have patch or expantion sub game basicallys tole from people that are willing to let get rob.i never see a game whit diferent maintance or patch from a p2p ty god gw2 will already changing that and all p2p game are keep dying faster and faster till more people realise we dont need to pay to have fun.
Fun gameplay.
If the actual processes of playing the game are fun then everything else is gravy.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
Logical post is logical sarcasm
That's reasonable and can agree with you. I think we understand each other and have resolved all significant disagreements. I am content with the progress and resolution of this conversation.
Hmm .. most players don't RP in MMOs. People play it for the epeen, the power, the progression. I have yet to meet someone in-game who claim he feels like his toon. Usually someone pick a class because they like its cool abilities.
Grinds
Timesinks
Everyone complains about them, but I complain about everything being handed out. Its like the special olympics. vs the real olympics. one is just about making mentally handicap people feel good while the real one is about hard work and dedication, when you win gold you have really accomplished something, your the creem of the crop. These theme parks now a days is the special olympics of MMO's
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI