As I stated the CS, if like GW1's CS, is all 'look at me I have a costume on' type of stuff. All for looks - no substance. It won't be a problem. People keep assuming it will be like in Allods Online where you HAVE to use the CS to play after lvl 20 or you will be ganked trying to kill a mob - simple as that. The P2W games, the fee is the CS.
I stopped my sub to Rift after playing GW2. WHy? it seems to be a much better game and no end game grind.
The poll could have been done better and your suggestion to have the option " 'No, and I wasn't going to buy it anyway" would have improved it. However, there is a large gray area between "useful" and "useless" poll and this poll gave certain "useful" information regarding MMORPG visitors in this forum section. By designing it in a better manner, more useful information could have been extracted.
What I think is likely is that either a lot of those who voted "NO" didn't get the implicated conditions in the poll description, which I found to be easy to detect, or the fact that it was b2p and not p2p from the start matters so much, that they wouldn't be willing to buy the game, for a signficant amount of people for different reasons.
Even narrowing down to a group of different scenarios can be considered to be useful information.
That gray area is actually various shades of useless. When you want something white, something '90% black but 10% white' is not useful. Like I said, MMORPG is full of horrible polls. It's what people at MMORPG do. Make bad polls. It's okay, professionals make bad polls all the time too (But they tend to do it on purpose to manipulate the facts, rather than just not understanding how it works).
No. Bad. That's not how a good poll works. That is not how you extract usuful information.
Not when the various scenarios mean totally different things. You can have completely conflicting meanings within the same answer, or have two people who are saying the same things but give either answer.
there should have been an option in the poll "yes, assuming no cash shop"
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
The poll could have been done better and your suggestion to have the option " 'No, and I wasn't going to buy it anyway" would have improved it. However, there is a large gray area between "useful" and "useless" poll and this poll gave certain "useful" information regarding MMORPG visitors in this forum section. By designing it in a better manner, more useful information could have been extracted.
What I think is likely is that either a lot of those who voted "NO" didn't get the implicated conditions in the poll description, which I found to be easy to detect, or the fact that it was b2p and not p2p from the start matters so much, that they wouldn't be willing to buy the game, for a signficant amount of people for different reasons.
Even narrowing down to a group of different scenarios can be considered to be useful information.
That gray area is actually various shades of useless. When you want something white, something '90% black but 10% white' is not useful. Like I said, MMORPG is full of horrible polls. It's what people at MMORPG do. Make bad polls. It's okay, professionals make bad polls all the time too (But they tend to do it on purpose to manipulate the facts, rather than just not understanding how it works).
No. Bad. That's not how a good poll works. That is not how you extract usuful information.
Not when the various scenarios mean totally different things. You can have completely conflicting meanings within the same answer, or have two people who are saying the same things but give either answer.
Depends on what the poller wanted to check; if his primary objective was to dissect precisely why different people wouldn't want to buy GW2 in the scenario where guild wars 2 was never b2p but instead p2p, then the poll did not achieve what he sought. In such case, it would be a bad poll in the sense that he could have received far more precise answers if he had designed the poll differently.
Do we know exactly what he primarely sought to find through the poll? No we don't, even though we can speculate. Without knowing his primary objective was, we cannot know for sure to what degree the poll was useful for him.
From a seperate perspective, we can analyze other aspects in which the poll can be useful to a certain extent, no matter what the poller's original intentions were. It is from that perspective, it can be argued that the thread was of use since it helped narrow down the possibilities. We can now be pretty certain that it is not a grand majority of the Guild Wars 2 forum visitors that are willing to pay for GW2 regardless of whether or not the pay model is b2p/p2p or is changed from one to another. That alone is useful. We can also narrow down to an extent why people voted no. We can also compare to previous polls.
From a seperate perspective, we can analyze other aspects in which the poll can be useful to a certain extent, no matter what the poller's original intentions were. It is from that perspective, it can be argued that the thread was of use since it helped narrow down the possibilities. We can now be pretty certain that it is not a grand majority of the Guild Wars 2 forum visitors that are willing to pay for GW2 regardless of whether or not the pay model is b2p/p2p or is changed from one to another. That alone is useful. We can also narrow down to an extent why people voted no. We can also compare to previous polls.
How do you come to that conclusion? Any evidence to support it?
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
From a seperate perspective, we can analyze other aspects in which the poll can be useful to a certain extent, no matter what the poller's original intentions were. It is from that perspective, it can be argued that the thread was of use since it helped narrow down the possibilities. We can now be pretty certain that it is not a grand majority of the Guild Wars 2 forum visitors that are willing to pay for GW2 regardless of whether or not the pay model is b2p/p2p or is changed from one to another. That alone is useful. We can also narrow down to an extent why people voted no. We can also compare to previous polls.
How do you come to that conclusion? Any evidence to support it?
By "Guild Wars 2 forum visitors" I mean the visitors of the "Guild Wars 2 forum section" here at MMORPG.com. I used a wrong words when I wrote "Guild Wars 2 forum visitors".
How do you categorize these answers who are prevalent in this thread. And lots of others who voted are of a similar opinion.
If they remove their pay to win cash shop and replace it with monthly fee,then maybe i could give it a shot.
Give me either a cash shop or a sub. Not both.
but to be honest they are smart enough to make games thatw e want to and have fun and they dont really want to take our money monthly so we can have fun
Now GW2 is using the B2P method, which we don't see many mmo's using this pay structure, I wish them the best and hope it doesn't end up like a F2P cash shop.
I would, if the cash shop would go as a consequence.
I wouldn't pay a sub for GW2. I love the game and give it props above all others, but I wouldn't pay a sub.
NO, just like i wont pay a sub for TERA, TSW, SWTOR, RIFT (i own 3 of those games for the free month and the free to lvl 15-20 trials)
This thread is stupid. There is no subscription fee in Guild Wars 2. Why are you arguing over something that will never happen?
I like their B2P method for this style of mmo, it is a good backup mmo to your main mmorpg that you need to take a break from.
Nope. There isn't any MMO that can really get me to pay a sub right now though. I'm burned out on them.
Fail-ed Thread there's no sub for GW2 in the 1st place, TS need to read get the facts right before wasting time opening useless threads.
I would pay a subscription IF the cash shop was dropped
No, I want to be able to play at my own leisure. Adding a sub fee means less people play too.
I could go on on previous pages but I'll stop on page 17
It's easy to see that there is
1) A general hatred towards subs, that has nothing to do with GW2, lots of people wouldn't pay a sub FOR ANY GAME. Lots of people still love Guild Wars 2 above others but they still won't pay.
2) People misunderstand the Cash Shop and there is no option for "without a Cash Shop"
Both of the above lead to "NO" as answer although it's pretty clear it doesn't mean "Guild Wars 2 isn't worth a sub"
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
I'd pay a sub for GW2 - I'm glad I don't have to, I'm sure I'll be spending $ for things in the shop on a regular basis.
I like supporting the artists/entertainers/companies etc. whose work I enjoy with my financial contributions.
I hate hate hate people who say that they "love" a band or some such, yet download all their music illegally, never buy any merchandise or go to any shows, etc.
1) A general hatred towards subs, that has nothing to do with GW2, lots of people wouldn't pay a sub FOR ANY GAME
2) People misunderstand the Cash Shop and there is no option for "without a Cash Shop"
Both of the above lead to "NO" as answer although it's pretty clear it doesn't mean "Guild Wars 2 isn't worth a sub"
If they have a general strong hatred towards subs, that has nothing to do with GW2, then it is possible that they don't think any game is "worth a sub". The negatives that a sub brings is not outweighted by the positives of the game, no matter how many other games fail to be enough positive, and therefore it is not "worth a sub".
I'll put emphasis on that just because people may think GW2 is not worth a sub, it doesn't mean that GW2 is a bad game or that it is worse than other games, it just means that GW2 is not good enough to outweight the negatives of a sub.
If they have a general strong hatred towards subs, that has nothing to do with GW2, then it is possible that they don't think any game is "worth a sub". The negatives that a sub brings is not outweighted by the positives of the game, no matter how many other games fail to be enough positive, and therefore it is not "worth a sub".
I'll put emphasis on that just because people may think GW2 is not worth a sub, it doesn't mean that GW2 is a bad game or that it is worse than other games, it just means that GW2 is not good enough to outweight the negatives of a sub.
Exactly so most of the "No" where from people who wouldn't pay for subs anyway, hence the poll is useless. It doesn't take into account if they pay for others and not for GW2.
I'll put emphasis on the fact that lots of "No" come from people who believe GW2 is the best game out there but they still wouldn't pay a sub, because they wouldn't pay a sub for any game. It doesn't matter how good it is or if the good can outweight the sub, they wouldn't pay in any possible way.
Also the OP is clearly lost in TSW forums so he wouldn't respond in any way. His "intentions" for making this poll should've been obvious, I still don't understand why this silly poll reached so many pages.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
If they have a general strong hatred towards subs, that has nothing to do with GW2, then it is possible that they don't think any game is "worth a sub". The negatives that a sub brings is not outweighted by the positives of the game, no matter how many other games fail to be enough positive, and therefore it is not "worth a sub".
I'll put emphasis on that just because people may think GW2 is not worth a sub, it doesn't mean that GW2 is a bad game or that it is worse than other games, it just means that GW2 is not good enough to outweight the negatives of a sub.
That still doesn't say what that means. You'll notice that many of the people he quoted specifically said 'I wouldn't pay a cash shop and a sub'.
Here's just SOME of the possible views a 'no' answer means, all of which were represented in the comments.
No, because I would not buy GW2.
No, because I wouldn't pay a sub for any game.
No, because GW2 doesn't HAVE a sub, so this is a dumb question
No, because I don't think a game should have a cash shop and a sub fee.
No, because I think that would mean Arenanet has proven themselves untrustworthy
No, because a sub game should be designed that way from the beginning.
No, because I don't really understand the poorly worded question or the intention.
No, because I like GW2 mainly because it has no sub.
You're saying that almost everybody falls into the last category, with a smattering of answer 2, when there's no proof to back up your conclusions.
Some of the answers even conflict. You're claiming the answers paint one picture, but you can't prove it other than your gut feeling. You can't even point to a series of other polls to show where you're pulling your figures from.
The only question this poll answers is 'Are the OP and several other people bad at making a poll you can extract useful information from, or even understanding what kind of information you can extract from a bad answer', and the answer is a resounding 'yes'.
I've preorder this game. But would not do that if there was a subscription.
Never played GW1 and most likely will not.
The one thing I trust in this game, and the developers, is that is as playable for me as any other playing the game in the (only avaible) free/buy to play version.
Most other games that have this either have something that makes me subscribe. They can name it all what they want, the companys are not stupid and I don't look down on it, but in the end they are tactical enough to try get people into subscribing.
I have yet to find a free to play gane(without subscription offer) that is worth playing and that is where I feel guild wars 2 will succeed.
So why would I (as in me) not buy the game if there was a subscription?
It is simple, there are a multitude of games I bougth over the years that are good and I don't believe that there will be a next bestest game ever. Neither do I believe that GW2 is the next bestest thing, if it had a subscription we would only yet see a game get written down, ex-[whatevergame]players become [whatevergame] player again.
Biggest thing speaking for GW2 is that there is no subscription people can play it whenever they want without yet a nother subscription to pay in addition to their addiction mmo.
If they have a general strong hatred towards subs, that has nothing to do with GW2, then it is possible that they don't think any game is "worth a sub". The negatives that a sub brings is not outweighted by the positives of the game, no matter how many other games fail to be enough positive, and therefore it is not "worth a sub".
I'll put emphasis on that just because people may think GW2 is not worth a sub, it doesn't mean that GW2 is a bad game or that it is worse than other games, it just means that GW2 is not good enough to outweight the negatives of a sub.
That still doesn't say what that means. You'll notice that many of the people he quoted specifically said 'I wouldn't pay a cash shop and a sub'.
Here's just SOME of the possible views a 'no' answer means, all of which were represented in the comments.
No, because I would not buy GW2.
No, because I wouldn't pay a sub for any game.
No, because GW2 doesn't HAVE a sub, so this is a dumb question
No, because I don't think a game should have a cash shop and a sub fee.
No, because I think that would mean Arenanet has proven themselves untrustworthy
No, because a sub game should be designed that way from the beginning.
No, because I don't really understand the poorly worded question or the intention.
No, because I like GW2 mainly because it has no sub.
You're saying that almost everybody falls into the last category, with a smattering of answer 2, when there's no proof to back up your conclusions.
Some of the answers even conflict. You're claiming the answers paint one picture, but you can't prove it other than your gut feeling. You can't even point to a series of other polls to show where you're pulling your figures from.
The only question this poll answers is 'Are the OP and several other people bad at making a poll you can extract useful information from, or even understanding what kind of information you can extract from a bad answer', and the answer is a resounding 'yes'.
No, I am not saying that almost everybody falls into the last category "No, because I like GW2 mainly because it has no sub". You can like the game a lot for reasons unrelated to the pricing model, and still think that a specific pricing model is so negative that any like is outweighted by your dislike for the pricing model.
I didn't want to post an answer about this right away so I thought on it a few days. I would pay a monthly as long as I felt like playing an MMO. But I like many MMOers are seeing times have changed and 15 bucks a month is a rip off. So I would play GW2 because its quality but the day a MMO of good quality came out that gave a reasonable monthly fee I would be gone no matter how involved I was in GW2. ANet has gone a long way to winning my loyalty with its payment model. I love WoW but if blizzard goes the same business model after GW2 makes it work, I won't go back to WoW.
Comments
People have said it many times in this thread.
Give me either a cash shop or a sub. Not both.
NO....
Asbo
Honestly, Yes.
Yup
As I stated the CS, if like GW1's CS, is all 'look at me I have a costume on' type of stuff. All for looks - no substance. It won't be a problem. People keep assuming it will be like in Allods Online where you HAVE to use the CS to play after lvl 20 or you will be ganked trying to kill a mob - simple as that. The P2W games, the fee is the CS.
I stopped my sub to Rift after playing GW2. WHy? it seems to be a much better game and no end game grind.
That gray area is actually various shades of useless. When you want something white, something '90% black but 10% white' is not useful. Like I said, MMORPG is full of horrible polls. It's what people at MMORPG do. Make bad polls. It's okay, professionals make bad polls all the time too (But they tend to do it on purpose to manipulate the facts, rather than just not understanding how it works).
No. Bad. That's not how a good poll works. That is not how you extract usuful information.
Not when the various scenarios mean totally different things. You can have completely conflicting meanings within the same answer, or have two people who are saying the same things but give either answer.
Now, how to word a poll similar to this one but without having different meanings for everyone. Hmmmmm
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
there should have been an option in the poll "yes, assuming no cash shop"
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
Depends on what the poller wanted to check; if his primary objective was to dissect precisely why different people wouldn't want to buy GW2 in the scenario where guild wars 2 was never b2p but instead p2p, then the poll did not achieve what he sought. In such case, it would be a bad poll in the sense that he could have received far more precise answers if he had designed the poll differently.
Do we know exactly what he primarely sought to find through the poll? No we don't, even though we can speculate. Without knowing his primary objective was, we cannot know for sure to what degree the poll was useful for him.
From a seperate perspective, we can analyze other aspects in which the poll can be useful to a certain extent, no matter what the poller's original intentions were. It is from that perspective, it can be argued that the thread was of use since it helped narrow down the possibilities. We can now be pretty certain that it is not a grand majority of the Guild Wars 2 forum visitors that are willing to pay for GW2 regardless of whether or not the pay model is b2p/p2p or is changed from one to another. That alone is useful. We can also narrow down to an extent why people voted no. We can also compare to previous polls.
How do you come to that conclusion? Any evidence to support it?
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
By "Guild Wars 2 forum visitors" I mean the visitors of the "Guild Wars 2 forum section" here at MMORPG.com. I used a wrong words when I wrote "Guild Wars 2 forum visitors".
How do you categorize these answers who are prevalent in this thread. And lots of others who voted are of a similar opinion.
If they remove their pay to win cash shop and replace it with monthly fee,then maybe i could give it a shot.
Give me either a cash shop or a sub. Not both.
but to be honest they are smart enough to make games thatw e want to and have fun and they dont really want to take our money monthly so we can have fun
Now GW2 is using the B2P method, which we don't see many mmo's using this pay structure, I wish them the best and hope it doesn't end up like a F2P cash shop.
I would, if the cash shop would go as a consequence.
I wouldn't pay a sub for GW2. I love the game and give it props above all others, but I wouldn't pay a sub.
NO, just like i wont pay a sub for TERA, TSW, SWTOR, RIFT (i own 3 of those games for the free month and the free to lvl 15-20 trials)
This thread is stupid. There is no subscription fee in Guild Wars 2. Why are you arguing over something that will never happen?
I like their B2P method for this style of mmo, it is a good backup mmo to your main mmorpg that you need to take a break from.
Nope. There isn't any MMO that can really get me to pay a sub right now though. I'm burned out on them.
Fail-ed Thread there's no sub for GW2 in the 1st place, TS need to read get the facts right before wasting time opening useless threads.
I would pay a subscription IF the cash shop was dropped
No, I want to be able to play at my own leisure. Adding a sub fee means less people play too.
I could go on on previous pages but I'll stop on page 17
It's easy to see that there is
1) A general hatred towards subs, that has nothing to do with GW2, lots of people wouldn't pay a sub FOR ANY GAME. Lots of people still love Guild Wars 2 above others but they still won't pay.
2) People misunderstand the Cash Shop and there is no option for "without a Cash Shop"
Both of the above lead to "NO" as answer although it's pretty clear it doesn't mean "Guild Wars 2 isn't worth a sub"
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
I'd pay a sub for GW2 - I'm glad I don't have to, I'm sure I'll be spending $ for things in the shop on a regular basis.
I like supporting the artists/entertainers/companies etc. whose work I enjoy with my financial contributions.
I hate hate hate people who say that they "love" a band or some such, yet download all their music illegally, never buy any merchandise or go to any shows, etc.
If they have a general strong hatred towards subs, that has nothing to do with GW2, then it is possible that they don't think any game is "worth a sub". The negatives that a sub brings is not outweighted by the positives of the game, no matter how many other games fail to be enough positive, and therefore it is not "worth a sub".
I'll put emphasis on that just because people may think GW2 is not worth a sub, it doesn't mean that GW2 is a bad game or that it is worse than other games, it just means that GW2 is not good enough to outweight the negatives of a sub.
I would not pay subs for any MMO anymore cos I do not wish to rent a game.
Once you start to pay subs, the game will definitely have the old stupid justified ( fanboys excuse )
repitition content grinding like all other P2P MMO.
I would rather buy Steam sales game then give the monthly subs for an MMO.
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language
Exactly so most of the "No" where from people who wouldn't pay for subs anyway, hence the poll is useless. It doesn't take into account if they pay for others and not for GW2.
I'll put emphasis on the fact that lots of "No" come from people who believe GW2 is the best game out there but they still wouldn't pay a sub, because they wouldn't pay a sub for any game. It doesn't matter how good it is or if the good can outweight the sub, they wouldn't pay in any possible way.
Also the OP is clearly lost in TSW forums so he wouldn't respond in any way. His "intentions" for making this poll should've been obvious, I still don't understand why this silly poll reached so many pages.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
That still doesn't say what that means. You'll notice that many of the people he quoted specifically said 'I wouldn't pay a cash shop and a sub'.
Here's just SOME of the possible views a 'no' answer means, all of which were represented in the comments.
No, because I would not buy GW2.
No, because I wouldn't pay a sub for any game.
No, because GW2 doesn't HAVE a sub, so this is a dumb question
No, because I don't think a game should have a cash shop and a sub fee.
No, because I think that would mean Arenanet has proven themselves untrustworthy
No, because a sub game should be designed that way from the beginning.
No, because I don't really understand the poorly worded question or the intention.
No, because I like GW2 mainly because it has no sub.
You're saying that almost everybody falls into the last category, with a smattering of answer 2, when there's no proof to back up your conclusions.
Some of the answers even conflict. You're claiming the answers paint one picture, but you can't prove it other than your gut feeling. You can't even point to a series of other polls to show where you're pulling your figures from.
The only question this poll answers is 'Are the OP and several other people bad at making a poll you can extract useful information from, or even understanding what kind of information you can extract from a bad answer', and the answer is a resounding 'yes'.
HELL NO! I like it just the way it has been..... hint GW1
I don't have to pay a sub, why would I want to pay one?
I hate "what if" questions, shit is what it is: you don't have to pay, therefore you don't pay, period.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I've preorder this game. But would not do that if there was a subscription.
Never played GW1 and most likely will not.
The one thing I trust in this game, and the developers, is that is as playable for me as any other playing the game in the (only avaible) free/buy to play version.
Most other games that have this either have something that makes me subscribe. They can name it all what they want, the companys are not stupid and I don't look down on it, but in the end they are tactical enough to try get people into subscribing.
I have yet to find a free to play gane(without subscription offer) that is worth playing and that is where I feel guild wars 2 will succeed.
So why would I (as in me) not buy the game if there was a subscription?
It is simple, there are a multitude of games I bougth over the years that are good and I don't believe that there will be a next bestest game ever. Neither do I believe that GW2 is the next bestest thing, if it had a subscription we would only yet see a game get written down, ex-[whatevergame]players become [whatevergame] player again.
Biggest thing speaking for GW2 is that there is no subscription people can play it whenever they want without yet a nother subscription to pay in addition to their addiction mmo.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
No, I am not saying that almost everybody falls into the last category "No, because I like GW2 mainly because it has no sub". You can like the game a lot for reasons unrelated to the pricing model, and still think that a specific pricing model is so negative that any like is outweighted by your dislike for the pricing model.
Only if the game built some sandbox elements into itself,.
It has a lot of freedom built-in in the leveling, and freedom is a major aspect of any sandbox.
yeah in short its a theme park that isn't on rails for once. I could imagine WvW would appeal to some sandbox gamers who are into their pvp.