This question shouldn't even be asked in my honest opinion. The poor and low income people are flocking to this game in droves...not the best time to be talking about money really.
Just focus on the game....
Lol
They should definitely advertise if their cash shop will be able to accept EBT cards.
The sky is the limit!
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I would pay only because i paid so much money to games far more inferior, but thankfully anet doesnt want to milk their customers and read colin's latest blogpost, stating their intentions about their design philosophy.
But i can easily say that i will no longer play a sub fee game after Gw2. B2P is the way to go. I will be happy to buy fluff items from the shop in gw2, but it i good to know that it is not required at all.
I believe that companies who produce sub games think differently than those that produce B2P games. The B2P developers think, "How can we make the game fun to play so that they will tell friends how much fun they are having, and word-of-mouth will likely lead to increased revenue." Sub-game developers think, "How can we build crap into the game to keep people p(l)aying longer to increase revenue." I generally prefer the former over the latter.
So, my easy answer is, "No, I wouldn't pay a sub for GW2." The tough answer is, "I might, as there is absolutely nothing else on the horizon that looks like fun." However, I don't think GW2 would be anything close to what it is now if they had designed it for a sub model, so in my mind the question is moot.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
While I am generally opposed to the idea of subscription fees for MMOs in this day and age, the question of money is only a part of the problem.
This 'day and age'...
You guys always try to make it sound like a sci-fi super modern choice of payment model that solves issues rather then creating them.
Such spin.
The main reason why subscription fees are still so widely used with MMOs today is indeed a historical one. When the genre of MMORPGs was starting 15 to 20 years ago, regular payments were pretty much required to cover the badwidth costs, but ever since then the Internet has become a norm and a part of our everyday life, while the associated costs have dropped drastically. The boundary between MMOs and other games with multiplayer online components is growing very thin lately (resulting in discussions whether or not this and that game should be considered an MMO etc.) and having some of them require you to pay whole 15 dollars per month to help maintain it just doesn't feel justifiable to me anymore. Note that I'm not trying to persuade anyone that subscriptions are wrong, I'm just saying why I personally think they are.
Since this thread belongs to the GW2 category, I recommend watching this video about the B2P model if you haven't seen it already.
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by loki27
Another one is the fact that if you pay for a month of access to the game, you feel forced to use up as much of it as possible. If someone, for instance, can only play during the weekends, the game is basically more expensive for him than for someone who plays every day.
Why do you care about your 'expense' compared to some other guy you do not know?
You need to be a little bit more mature here IMO and decide if the time you get is good value to YOU.
Don't sweat the other guy... if you, getting maybe 10-25 hours a week out of your sub in a game you are having fun in is good for you then that's all that matters. If some unemplyed guy gets 60 hours out of his $15 then so what? How does that effect you?
I should actually mention here that $15 for the game time I talk about is extremely competitive compared to many other games out there.
I don't really care if someone else is getting the same thing as me for more or for less (as long as I know the difference is caused by me, which for example means that the $=€ price problem is not covered by this), saying that would also mean I don't like special discounts or price reduction when a game gets older. What I was trying to say is that the value of what you're getting for the sub can drop substantially if you happen to have less free time; barely anyone will pay a sub for a game which he knows he won't have any time to play during that time.
However, the main point I was trying to make here was that if a game doesn't have a subscription fee, it doesn't matter if you only jump in for 5 minutes in a month, since you don't have to worry about reactivating the account and paying for a whole month. And even if you (personally) think that 15$ for 5 minutes of game time is good value, you know that you paid for more and that you (personally) can get better value by playing more. This might not be a big deal for some but I like to start up my GW1 every once in a while and play a bit. Re-subbing to a sub-based game actually might not be a very easy decision to make when you know why you had unsubbed in the first place and you aren't sure if you'll think it's good value.
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by loki27
An MMO that gets a lot of money from monthly fees is encouraged to prolong the time you spend in the game by any means necessary, which can lead to things like mob grind, repetitive quests, long travel times, frequent downtimes, gear treadmill, extremely rare drops, encouraging griefing etc., and even if all you want to do is PvP, you have to suffer through all this.
Well, have to say I think you have it wrong.
F2P cash shops benefit from having you in game, because if you are not there you 'aint spending. Sub based games get your money if you are there nor not. Anyone who says F2P games don't care if you dip in and out are delusional. They want you committed, addicted, and spending.
In fact, many F2P games have exactly what you describe in red, only they have the 'solutions' to those debliberatly designed problems in their shop, often in a more extreme version then you would see in a P2P game.
In a P2P game having too much of what you talk about can kill a sub and result in a loss of revenue, in a F2P game it sends the player to the shop to spend and creates revenue.
I think your view of F2P is extremely naive and just a product of the internet 'indie' gaming sites telling you what to think.
I thought that, being in the GW2 forum category, it was pretty clear I was comparing P2P games to GW2's B2P model, not to F2P. But on the topic you raised here, I think you are absolutely right! In many ways F2P MMOs are often even more evil than the purely sub-based ones, because those at least very clearly state what you will have to pay in order to enjoy the game and to stay at a competitive level.
Cash shops in general are quite a complicated and controversial topic, though. First, I can't fully understand why some people are so defensive about subscriptions while being so vehemently opposed to the very idea of a CS. Second, I think that the term P2W is thrown around a bit too much. Generally, people don't seem to mind a sub-less MMO having a purely cosmetic or otherwise non-intrusive CS, the question is where is the distinction. As is probably evident, I am a GW(2) fan, but I certainly don't think I'm just a blind fanboy: I think that some of the items that are so far known to be in the gem store are far from ideal (particularly the mystic keys, gold, despite not being added to the economy, and potentially the mystic forge stones and perfect salvage kits), and the obvious response to the so-called convenience items is why make the game inconvenient in the first place, but I wouldn't go as far as to say it's even slightly P2W, since it doesn't guarantee any form of winning anywhere in the game (regarding the gems → influence → WvW boosts, using so much money and so much effort for so small local boosts in a game mode which is not supposed to be always balanced anyway and which can be so easily bypassed is definitely nothing to worry about, imho).
Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
My GW2 experience thus far has been so fantastic relative to other MMOs that I've paid sub fees for, that I'd be lying if I clicked "no." Though I'm so ridiculously glad they aren't charging a sub fee!
By exposing the very reason some other companies have told us as the need for a sub, as a lie, starting to charge one would be a bad idea. So even if the game were really good I probably wouldn't pay the sub because I don't take lightly to being lied to.
I would pay a sub fee for GW2.. just like I paid sub fees for all other games.. when it ceases to interest me, I would cease to pay.
same..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Yes, but after playing GW2 and experiencing how fun it actually is it makes me wonder how other mmo's get away with charging a monthly fee. I doubt i'll ever pay a monthly fee for an mmo again at this rate, it would have to be Night of the Living Dead Online or The Good The Bad and The Ugly Online or something amazing.
Personally, the first reason I got interested in GW2 was because there was no sub, which was a big plus since being in Venezuela can't spend more than $400 online a year (google cadivi for more details). After learning more and more about the game, today I'm at the point where I would pay a sub if it had one.
However, being as it is and having no sub, even before it's released, each passing day I find it harder and harder to justify playing a game that includes a sub.
I like guild wars 2 but I wouldn't pay for a sub not because I don't have the money, but because subs usually introduce time sinks and gear grind and I am the point where I wont play or pay for the honor of chasing a carrot.
Nice over 55 percent of people would pay a sub to play GW2, when they don't even have to. Yet, polls done for The Secret World show only 27-29 percent say they will pay for that game while over 50 percent say they won't.
I think its a little misleading honestly. I think a big portion of people don't mind saying they'll pay for a sub for GW2 because they don't have to pay for a sub... it means they can play for a month.. or they can play for 6 months and not worry about the charge.. whereas with TSW you go into it knowing you'll have to pay for a sub... which, for some people, is a deciding factor in buying the game at all.
Its a different mentality. I think the better poll would have been... "Would you buy TSW if it was B2P". I think you would have seen a different response... I definitely would buy TSW if it was B2P.... not so sure I'd consistently pay a subscription for it though.
Add the sub and remove the cash shop and I'll play it. As it is now I won't play it. Too much pay2win aspect...
The cash shop isn't much pay2win... Have you looked at the cash shop? At all? People who played the beta know that it doesn't do much as far as PvP or that much on PvE. I will agree there are things in there that resemble the crates from tf2 where you need keys but you get keys in game and all the chests give you is xp and crafting boosts that dont matter much... I'm told that you can also use buy cash shop items off other players using in game gold so that part gets solved too... The best armor isn't that expensive either so there really isn't an advantage anywhere. Rather lengthy reply for your post but it truly does frustrate me when people say the cash shop is pay2win when they haven't seen it. I'm guessing you haven't seen it considering you haven't played the beta :
For future reference you should ignore statements from him, he has his own agenda aka he just like causing stiring the pot here.
I don't hate the game or have a huge dislike towards it,but the draw for me is the fact it's b2p.That's really the only reason that I'm buying the game.I just don't like it enough for it to replace a game/games that I already have a sub to.
Nice over 55 percent of people would pay a sub to play GW2, when they don't even have to. Yet, polls done for The Secret World show only 27-29 percent say they will pay for that game while over 50 percent say they won't.
I missed that poll mind linking it? Or were you just down talking tsw?
Nice over 55 percent of people would pay a sub to play GW2, when they don't even have to. Yet, polls done for The Secret World show only 27-29 percent say they will pay for that game while over 50 percent say they won't.
I think its a little misleading honestly. I think a big portion of people don't mind saying they'll pay for a sub for GW2 because they don't have to pay for a sub... it means they can play for a month.. or they can play for 6 months and not worry about the charge.. whereas with TSW you go into it knowing you'll have to pay for a sub... which, for some people, is a deciding factor in buying the game at all.
Its a different mentality. I think the better poll would have been... "Would you buy TSW if it was B2P". I think you would have seen a different response... I definitely would buy TSW if it was B2P.... not so sure I'd consistently pay a subscription for it though.
Okay, it is misleading due to you making things up that people think when voting. I have a better idea, how about people vote for what they like? Ya, now that makes more sense.
People vote for what they like? This entire thread is based on something hypothetical, whereas the other thread mentioned was based on something factual, it isn't an even playing field.
Add the sub and remove the cash shop and I'll play it. As it is now I won't play it. Too much pay2win aspect...
Oh the ignorance! Or, oh the trolling!
There is litterally no amount of money other players could spend on the cash shop that would make me feel like I would be at a disadvantage having spent nothing.
No, I wouldn't pay a sub fee, because the game didn't impress me enough to consider buying it if it had one. As a one time purchase, sure. I can probably get enough enjoinment out of it to justify the box price.
We've all heard people say things like "Plus there's no sub, " or "Since I don't have to pay a sub." If GW2 was 15$ a month would you pay it?
No. I am done with the outdated subscription based MMO world, there arent enough quality game making companies out there that actually use the money they get to imrpove on the game fast enough for it to be worth it. Worse yet, some companies that used to be great at it like Turbine forgot how to keep their game top quality for any real length of time.
$40-60 for the game. $15 a month for 3-10 months before it stagnates into quitting...thats $30-150 after the free month.
Not giving another crap company $70-210 bucks for something that wont last.
At least with NCsoft you are dealing with a company that knows that you dont have to fleece your players to make a great profit even after reinvesting in the game enough to make it last YEARS...like with GW1.
We've all heard people say things like "Plus there's no sub, " or "Since I don't have to pay a sub." If GW2 was 15$ a month would you pay it?
No. I am done with the outdated subscription based MMO world, there arent enough quality game making companies out there that actually use the money they get to imrpove on the game fast enough for it to be worth it. Worse yet, some companies that used to be great at it like Turbine forgot how to keep their game top quality for any real length of time.
$40-60 for the game. $15 a month for 3-10 months before it stagnates into quitting...thats $30-150 after the free month.
Not giving another crap company $70-210 bucks for something that wont last.
At least with NCsoft you are dealing with a company that knows that you dont have to fleece your players to make a great profit even after reinvesting in the game enough to make it last YEARS...like with GW1.
Word. While I think GW2 is better than any other themepark mmorpg out there, I've been starting to find the entire genre boring. I think i will play GW2 casually but I won't be paying a subscription to anything unless it is utterly amazing.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now! I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
Comments
Lol
They should definitely advertise if their cash shop will be able to accept EBT cards.
The sky is the limit!
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I would pay only because i paid so much money to games far more inferior, but thankfully anet doesnt want to milk their customers and read colin's latest blogpost, stating their intentions about their design philosophy.
But i can easily say that i will no longer play a sub fee game after Gw2. B2P is the way to go. I will be happy to buy fluff items from the shop in gw2, but it i good to know that it is not required at all.
I believe that companies who produce sub games think differently than those that produce B2P games. The B2P developers think, "How can we make the game fun to play so that they will tell friends how much fun they are having, and word-of-mouth will likely lead to increased revenue." Sub-game developers think, "How can we build crap into the game to keep people p(l)aying longer to increase revenue." I generally prefer the former over the latter.
So, my easy answer is, "No, I wouldn't pay a sub for GW2." The tough answer is, "I might, as there is absolutely nothing else on the horizon that looks like fun." However, I don't think GW2 would be anything close to what it is now if they had designed it for a sub model, so in my mind the question is moot.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
yeah, I think if they changed their minds right now, I wouldn't have a problem with a subscription to play GW2
The main reason why subscription fees are still so widely used with MMOs today is indeed a historical one. When the genre of MMORPGs was starting 15 to 20 years ago, regular payments were pretty much required to cover the badwidth costs, but ever since then the Internet has become a norm and a part of our everyday life, while the associated costs have dropped drastically. The boundary between MMOs and other games with multiplayer online components is growing very thin lately (resulting in discussions whether or not this and that game should be considered an MMO etc.) and having some of them require you to pay whole 15 dollars per month to help maintain it just doesn't feel justifiable to me anymore. Note that I'm not trying to persuade anyone that subscriptions are wrong, I'm just saying why I personally think they are.
Since this thread belongs to the GW2 category, I recommend watching this video about the B2P model if you haven't seen it already.
I don't really care if someone else is getting the same thing as me for more or for less (as long as I know the difference is caused by me, which for example means that the $=€ price problem is not covered by this), saying that would also mean I don't like special discounts or price reduction when a game gets older. What I was trying to say is that the value of what you're getting for the sub can drop substantially if you happen to have less free time; barely anyone will pay a sub for a game which he knows he won't have any time to play during that time.
However, the main point I was trying to make here was that if a game doesn't have a subscription fee, it doesn't matter if you only jump in for 5 minutes in a month, since you don't have to worry about reactivating the account and paying for a whole month. And even if you (personally) think that 15$ for 5 minutes of game time is good value, you know that you paid for more and that you (personally) can get better value by playing more. This might not be a big deal for some but I like to start up my GW1 every once in a while and play a bit. Re-subbing to a sub-based game actually might not be a very easy decision to make when you know why you had unsubbed in the first place and you aren't sure if you'll think it's good value.
I thought that, being in the GW2 forum category, it was pretty clear I was comparing P2P games to GW2's B2P model, not to F2P. But on the topic you raised here, I think you are absolutely right! In many ways F2P MMOs are often even more evil than the purely sub-based ones, because those at least very clearly state what you will have to pay in order to enjoy the game and to stay at a competitive level.
Cash shops in general are quite a complicated and controversial topic, though. First, I can't fully understand why some people are so defensive about subscriptions while being so vehemently opposed to the very idea of a CS. Second, I think that the term P2W is thrown around a bit too much. Generally, people don't seem to mind a sub-less MMO having a purely cosmetic or otherwise non-intrusive CS, the question is where is the distinction. As is probably evident, I am a GW(2) fan, but I certainly don't think I'm just a blind fanboy: I think that some of the items that are so far known to be in the gem store are far from ideal (particularly the mystic keys, gold, despite not being added to the economy, and potentially the mystic forge stones and perfect salvage kits), and the obvious response to the so-called convenience items is why make the game inconvenient in the first place, but I wouldn't go as far as to say it's even slightly P2W, since it doesn't guarantee any form of winning anywhere in the game (regarding the gems → influence → WvW boosts, using so much money and so much effort for so small local boosts in a game mode which is not supposed to be always balanced anyway and which can be so easily bypassed is definitely nothing to worry about, imho).
Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
My GW2 experience thus far has been so fantastic relative to other MMOs that I've paid sub fees for, that I'd be lying if I clicked "no." Though I'm so ridiculously glad they aren't charging a sub fee!
By exposing the very reason some other companies have told us as the need for a sub, as a lie, starting to charge one would be a bad idea. So even if the game were really good I probably wouldn't pay the sub because I don't take lightly to being lied to.
And have to pay for bank space and bag space? Definitely not. I think what they are doing is the best choice for any newly released MMO.
My thoughts exactly. I like to actuallly help support the developers of whatever game I'm playing. *Gasp*
So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." - Matthew 6-34
I agree ....I've never had an issue with the cost of playing any game ...my issue has been paying for half finnished crap
I would pay a sub fee for GW2.. just like I paid sub fees for all other games.. when it ceases to interest me, I would cease to pay.
same..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
what game? there isnt one...is it out? no...will it ever be out? who the h knows
Yes, but after playing GW2 and experiencing how fun it actually is it makes me wonder how other mmo's get away with charging a monthly fee. I doubt i'll ever pay a monthly fee for an mmo again at this rate, it would have to be Night of the Living Dead Online or The Good The Bad and The Ugly Online or something amazing.
I'm a bit of a mixed bag.
Personally, the first reason I got interested in GW2 was because there was no sub, which was a big plus since being in Venezuela can't spend more than $400 online a year (google cadivi for more details). After learning more and more about the game, today I'm at the point where I would pay a sub if it had one.
However, being as it is and having no sub, even before it's released, each passing day I find it harder and harder to justify playing a game that includes a sub.
What can men do against such reckless hate?
I like guild wars 2 but I wouldn't pay for a sub not because I don't have the money, but because subs usually introduce time sinks and gear grind and I am the point where I wont play or pay for the honor of chasing a carrot.
I think its a little misleading honestly. I think a big portion of people don't mind saying they'll pay for a sub for GW2 because they don't have to pay for a sub... it means they can play for a month.. or they can play for 6 months and not worry about the charge.. whereas with TSW you go into it knowing you'll have to pay for a sub... which, for some people, is a deciding factor in buying the game at all.
Its a different mentality. I think the better poll would have been... "Would you buy TSW if it was B2P". I think you would have seen a different response... I definitely would buy TSW if it was B2P.... not so sure I'd consistently pay a subscription for it though.
For future reference you should ignore statements from him, he has his own agenda aka he just like causing stiring the pot here.
The answer for me is no.
I don't hate the game or have a huge dislike towards it,but the draw for me is the fact it's b2p.That's really the only reason that I'm buying the game.I just don't like it enough for it to replace a game/games that I already have a sub to.
I missed that poll mind linking it? Or were you just down talking tsw?
People vote for what they like? This entire thread is based on something hypothetical, whereas the other thread mentioned was based on something factual, it isn't an even playing field.
Oh the ignorance! Or, oh the trolling!
There is litterally no amount of money other players could spend on the cash shop that would make me feel like I would be at a disadvantage having spent nothing.
No, I wouldn't pay a sub fee, because the game didn't impress me enough to consider buying it if it had one. As a one time purchase, sure. I can probably get enough enjoinment out of it to justify the box price.
No. I am done with the outdated subscription based MMO world, there arent enough quality game making companies out there that actually use the money they get to imrpove on the game fast enough for it to be worth it. Worse yet, some companies that used to be great at it like Turbine forgot how to keep their game top quality for any real length of time.
$40-60 for the game. $15 a month for 3-10 months before it stagnates into quitting...thats $30-150 after the free month.
Not giving another crap company $70-210 bucks for something that wont last.
At least with NCsoft you are dealing with a company that knows that you dont have to fleece your players to make a great profit even after reinvesting in the game enough to make it last YEARS...like with GW1.
Word. While I think GW2 is better than any other themepark mmorpg out there, I've been starting to find the entire genre boring. I think i will play GW2 casually but I won't be paying a subscription to anything unless it is utterly amazing.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!