same thing I found in Fusang.. map just isn't designed very well for persistant type PVP unless you just want to zerg vs zerg all day then I guess it's ok..
It's pretty sad, really. I think that one of the biggest misconceptions about large scale PvP is that it has to be zerg vs zerg. It's not true at all and GW2 is a prime example of it. While WvW has it's share of issues, it is absolutely possible for a small group to feel useful, either escorting caravans or attacking and defending supply camps. Hell, small groups can even defend keeps or choke points.
The feasibility of small group tactics has as much to do with map design as other game play elements. WvW has large maps full of choke points and defensive positions, which allow small groups to not only avoid the zerg but also hold their own by using a bit of strategic thinking. Fusang is nothing like that. It doesn't even seem like it was designed by someone who knows what large scale PvP is about. It's tiny and has no choke points or defensive positions so you're either with the zerg or you're dead by it.
So, you are ignoring you can fight besides the turret or facility guardian? A small force can hold off a much larger one if it's done beside the facility guardian - same goes with the turret.
The zerg almost always wins because of the sheer amount of DPS it puts out. But yea, you can fight beside the turret or a guardian, until the zerg notices you and 1 shots you.
same thing I found in Fusang.. map just isn't designed very well for persistant type PVP unless you just want to zerg vs zerg all day then I guess it's ok..
It's pretty sad, really. I think that one of the biggest misconceptions about large scale PvP is that it has to be zerg vs zerg. It's not true at all and GW2 is a prime example of it. While WvW has it's share of issues, it is absolutely possible for a small group to feel useful, either escorting caravans or attacking and defending supply camps. Hell, small groups can even defend keeps or choke points.
The feasibility of small group tactics has as much to do with map design as other game play elements. WvW has large maps full of choke points and defensive positions, which allow small groups to not only avoid the zerg but also hold their own by using a bit of strategic thinking. Fusang is nothing like that. It doesn't even seem like it was designed by someone who knows what large scale PvP is about. It's tiny and has no choke points or defensive positions so you're either with the zerg or you're dead by it.
GW2 is the zergiest of them all. I understand what you are trying to say, but the theory doesn't carry over to the practical application in GW2....at least not in the BWE's I have been in.
same thing I found in Fusang.. map just isn't designed very well for persistant type PVP unless you just want to zerg vs zerg all day then I guess it's ok..
It's pretty sad, really. I think that one of the biggest misconceptions about large scale PvP is that it has to be zerg vs zerg. It's not true at all and GW2 is a prime example of it. While WvW has it's share of issues, it is absolutely possible for a small group to feel useful, either escorting caravans or attacking and defending supply camps. Hell, small groups can even defend keeps or choke points.
The feasibility of small group tactics has as much to do with map design as other game play elements. WvW has large maps full of choke points and defensive positions, which allow small groups to not only avoid the zerg but also hold their own by using a bit of strategic thinking. Fusang is nothing like that. It doesn't even seem like it was designed by someone who knows what large scale PvP is about. It's tiny and has no choke points or defensive positions so you're either with the zerg or you're dead by it.
So, you are ignoring you can fight besides the turret or facility guardian? A small force can hold off a much larger one if it's done beside the facility guardian - same goes with the turret.
I fought the guardian but it has several entrances into the area he hangs out so no strategic choke points there.... if there are some i'd love to see them or if you could show some video
Well, it sort of makes it hard for the other faction to concentrate you you when there is this giant robot hitting them? That isn't enough defense for you?
when I was playing the guardian was attacking them but few tanks held it off and their zerg wiped us out in seconds... then moved on to take out the guardian.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
same thing I found in Fusang.. map just isn't designed very well for persistant type PVP unless you just want to zerg vs zerg all day then I guess it's ok..
It's pretty sad, really. I think that one of the biggest misconceptions about large scale PvP is that it has to be zerg vs zerg. It's not true at all and GW2 is a prime example of it. While WvW has it's share of issues, it is absolutely possible for a small group to feel useful, either escorting caravans or attacking and defending supply camps. Hell, small groups can even defend keeps or choke points.
The feasibility of small group tactics has as much to do with map design as other game play elements. WvW has large maps full of choke points and defensive positions, which allow small groups to not only avoid the zerg but also hold their own by using a bit of strategic thinking. Fusang is nothing like that. It doesn't even seem like it was designed by someone who knows what large scale PvP is about. It's tiny and has no choke points or defensive positions so you're either with the zerg or you're dead by it.
So, you are ignoring you can fight besides the turret or facility guardian? A small force can hold off a much larger one if it's done beside the facility guardian - same goes with the turret.
I fought the guardian but it has several entrances into the area he hangs out so no strategic choke points there.... if there are some i'd love to see them or if you could show some video
Well, it sort of makes it hard for the other faction to concentrate you you when there is this giant robot hitting them? That isn't enough defense for you?
when I was playing the guardian was attacking them but few tanks held it off and their zerg wiped us out in seconds... then moved on to take out the guardian.
So, then you could just take it back and hold 4 facilities while templar has 1 and you get all the most white tokens?
same thing I found in Fusang.. map just isn't designed very well for persistant type PVP unless you just want to zerg vs zerg all day then I guess it's ok..
It's pretty sad, really. I think that one of the biggest misconceptions about large scale PvP is that it has to be zerg vs zerg. It's not true at all and GW2 is a prime example of it. While WvW has it's share of issues, it is absolutely possible for a small group to feel useful, either escorting caravans or attacking and defending supply camps. Hell, small groups can even defend keeps or choke points.
The feasibility of small group tactics has as much to do with map design as other game play elements. WvW has large maps full of choke points and defensive positions, which allow small groups to not only avoid the zerg but also hold their own by using a bit of strategic thinking. Fusang is nothing like that. It doesn't even seem like it was designed by someone who knows what large scale PvP is about. It's tiny and has no choke points or defensive positions so you're either with the zerg or you're dead by it.
GW2 is the zergiest of them all. I understand what you are trying to say, but the theory doesn't carry over to the practical application in GW2....at least not in the BWE's I have been in.
Not exactly true. I've been on a receiving end of a small group who took over a supply camp and held it off against our supperion numbers. There were like 5 of them and about 20 of us. They had one ballista pointing at the only entrance to the supply camp. We eventually won when a small force was able to sneak around the buildings and distract them long enough for the main force to engage but before that, we wiped a lot. They must've held us off for a good half an hour or so.
Any large scale PvP will have zergs but in GW2 It is absolutely possible for a small team to be useful in WvW.
same thing I found in Fusang.. map just isn't designed very well for persistant type PVP unless you just want to zerg vs zerg all day then I guess it's ok..
It's pretty sad, really. I think that one of the biggest misconceptions about large scale PvP is that it has to be zerg vs zerg. It's not true at all and GW2 is a prime example of it. While WvW has it's share of issues, it is absolutely possible for a small group to feel useful, either escorting caravans or attacking and defending supply camps. Hell, small groups can even defend keeps or choke points.
The feasibility of small group tactics has as much to do with map design as other game play elements. WvW has large maps full of choke points and defensive positions, which allow small groups to not only avoid the zerg but also hold their own by using a bit of strategic thinking. Fusang is nothing like that. It doesn't even seem like it was designed by someone who knows what large scale PvP is about. It's tiny and has no choke points or defensive positions so you're either with the zerg or you're dead by it.
GW2 is the zergiest of them all. I understand what you are trying to say, but the theory doesn't carry over to the practical application in GW2....at least not in the BWE's I have been in.
difference is you can sit on youtube and see tons of videos of WvWvW where its not zerg vs zerg.. granted there's only a couple fusang videos up but all I have seen are just zerg fests and all my personal experience is zerg fests... if you can show me otherwise I would be very interested to see
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
People will always zerg in betas and the first time they play. Eventually, if everything goes well, organized teams start forming and strategy and metagaming comes into play. We'll just have to wait for after release to see if this happens in either game.
same thing I found in Fusang.. map just isn't designed very well for persistant type PVP unless you just want to zerg vs zerg all day then I guess it's ok..
It's pretty sad, really. I think that one of the biggest misconceptions about large scale PvP is that it has to be zerg vs zerg. It's not true at all and GW2 is a prime example of it. While WvW has it's share of issues, it is absolutely possible for a small group to feel useful, either escorting caravans or attacking and defending supply camps. Hell, small groups can even defend keeps or choke points.
The feasibility of small group tactics has as much to do with map design as other game play elements. WvW has large maps full of choke points and defensive positions, which allow small groups to not only avoid the zerg but also hold their own by using a bit of strategic thinking. Fusang is nothing like that. It doesn't even seem like it was designed by someone who knows what large scale PvP is about. It's tiny and has no choke points or defensive positions so you're either with the zerg or you're dead by it.
GW2 is the zergiest of them all. I understand what you are trying to say, but the theory doesn't carry over to the practical application in GW2....at least not in the BWE's I have been in.
Not exactly true. I've been on a receiving end of a small group who took over a supply camp and held it off against our supperion numbers. There were like 5 of them and about 20 of us. They had one ballista pointing at the only entrance to the supply camp. We eventually won when a small force was able to sneak around the buildings and distract them long enough for the main force to engage but before that, we wiped a lot. They must've held us off for a good half an hour or so.
Any large scale PvP will have zergs but in GW2 It is absolutely possible for a small team to be useful in WvW.
Once the lay of the land is learned this won't happen. Numbers will will win every time. The one thing that turns me off about GW2 is how zergy both the PVP and the PVE are. There is so much that I do like, but those I don't.
difference is you can sit on youtube and see tons of videos of WvWvW where its not zerg vs zerg.. granted there's only a couple fusang videos up but all I have seen are just zerg fests and all my personal experience is zerg fests... if you can show me otherwise I would be very interested to see
I have been watching this guy http://www.twitch.tv/oddver stream a lot both from open beta and closed, and sure, there are some zergs and such, but they aren't doing anything useful, but zerging. About 80% of the fights I have seen him in are small scale, typically 5, 10, 20 total players from all factions. He is also using a tank-build to avoid the "one-shotting" and he is doing pretty darned well with it.
He is streaming from Fusang as we speak doing small battles and just body blocked a guy so he couldn't escape him
same thing I found in Fusang.. map just isn't designed very well for persistant type PVP unless you just want to zerg vs zerg all day then I guess it's ok..
It's pretty sad, really. I think that one of the biggest misconceptions about large scale PvP is that it has to be zerg vs zerg. It's not true at all and GW2 is a prime example of it. While WvW has it's share of issues, it is absolutely possible for a small group to feel useful, either escorting caravans or attacking and defending supply camps. Hell, small groups can even defend keeps or choke points.
The feasibility of small group tactics has as much to do with map design as other game play elements. WvW has large maps full of choke points and defensive positions, which allow small groups to not only avoid the zerg but also hold their own by using a bit of strategic thinking. Fusang is nothing like that. It doesn't even seem like it was designed by someone who knows what large scale PvP is about. It's tiny and has no choke points or defensive positions so you're either with the zerg or you're dead by it.
GW2 is the zergiest of them all. I understand what you are trying to say, but the theory doesn't carry over to the practical application in GW2....at least not in the BWE's I have been in.
Not exactly true. I've been on a receiving end of a small group who took over a supply camp and held it off against our supperion numbers. There were like 5 of them and about 20 of us. They had one ballista pointing at the only entrance to the supply camp. We eventually won when a small force was able to sneak around the buildings and distract them long enough for the main force to engage but before that, we wiped a lot. They must've held us off for a good half an hour or so.
Any large scale PvP will have zergs but in GW2 It is absolutely possible for a small team to be useful in WvW.
Once the lay of the land is learned this won't happen. Numbers will will win every time. The one thing that turns me off about GW2 is how zergy both the PVP and the PVE are. There is so much that I do like, but those I don't.
Large numbers don't mean anything when there are choke points and defensive positions. This is what WvW has and that Fusang lacks. The lay of the land means nothing where there is only 1 entrance and it is being defended by a ballista and some AoE.
difference is you can sit on youtube and see tons of videos of WvWvW where its not zerg vs zerg.. granted there's only a couple fusang videos up but all I have seen are just zerg fests and all my personal experience is zerg fests... if you can show me otherwise I would be very interested to see
I have been watching this guy http://www.twitch.tv/oddver stream a lot both from open beta and closed, and sure, there are some zergs and such, but they aren't doing anything useful, but zerging. About 80% of the fights I have seen him in are small scale, typically 5, 10, 20 total players from all factions. He is also using a tank-build to avoid the "one-shotting" and he is doing pretty darned well with it.
He is streaming from Fusang as we speak doing small battles and just body blocked a guy so he couldn't escape him
will give it a watch... been watching all fights have been zerg fest at turret... zerg fest at guardian... still watching to see if it changes
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I have been watching this guy http://www.twitch.tv/oddver stream a lot both from open beta and closed, and sure, there are some zergs and such, but they aren't doing anything useful, but zerging. About 80% of the fights I have seen him in are small scale, typically 5, 10, 20 total players from all factions. He is also using a tank-build to avoid the "one-shotting" and he is doing pretty darned well with it.
He is streaming from Fusang as we speak doing small battles and just body blocked a guy so he couldn't escape him
will give it a watch... been watching all fights have been zerg fest at turret... zerg fest at guardian... still watching to see if it changes
Hope you got to watch it now, because what I saw was
a) Illuminati taking out the turret, but slowly,
b) getting beaten back before they could take the guardian
c) going back with more people, taking turret, guardian and facility
d) the illuminati guy commenting that it cost them nearly everything (the other objectives)
Was up to maybe 20 vs 30 in the c) fight, looked really nice
So, a bit zergy there, but there obviously were other teams doing some damage to the illuminati while they were putting their numbers in one place. The defending dragons made it possible for them to take other objectives.
same thing I found in Fusang.. map just isn't designed very well for persistant type PVP unless you just want to zerg vs zerg all day then I guess it's ok..
It's pretty sad, really. I think that one of the biggest misconceptions about large scale PvP is that it has to be zerg vs zerg. It's not true at all and GW2 is a prime example of it. While WvW has it's share of issues, it is absolutely possible for a small group to feel useful, either escorting caravans or attacking and defending supply camps. Hell, small groups can even defend keeps or choke points.
The feasibility of small group tactics has as much to do with map design as other game play elements. WvW has large maps full of choke points and defensive positions, which allow small groups to not only avoid the zerg but also hold their own by using a bit of strategic thinking. Fusang is nothing like that. It doesn't even seem like it was designed by someone who knows what large scale PvP is about. It's tiny and has no choke points or defensive positions so you're either with the zerg or you're dead by it.
GW2 is the zergiest of them all. I understand what you are trying to say, but the theory doesn't carry over to the practical application in GW2....at least not in the BWE's I have been in.
Not exactly true. I've been on a receiving end of a small group who took over a supply camp and held it off against our supperion numbers. There were like 5 of them and about 20 of us. They had one ballista pointing at the only entrance to the supply camp. We eventually won when a small force was able to sneak around the buildings and distract them long enough for the main force to engage but before that, we wiped a lot. They must've held us off for a good half an hour or so.
Any large scale PvP will have zergs but in GW2 It is absolutely possible for a small team to be useful in WvW.
Once the lay of the land is learned this won't happen. Numbers will will win every time. The one thing that turns me off about GW2 is how zergy both the PVP and the PVE are. There is so much that I do like, but those I don't.
Large numbers don't mean anything when there are choke points and defensive positions. This is what WvW has and that Fusang lacks. The lay of the land means nothing where there is only 1 entrance and it is being defended by a ballista and some AoE.
If you think there is some magic solution to the ballista + supply camp problem then you clearly have never had half your life taken away from a ballista bolt you can't see because some other player is blocking your view.
And you clearly haven't bothered to take a look at how the camps are setup.
Two Ballistas in GW2 can insta-kill most non-hihg-HP built players. 10 people with 4 ballistas will done right will fuck up 5 times their numbers.
Anyone who think a small group should hold out indefinitely against large numbers is deluding themselves. A defensive position is generally accepted to be a force miltiplier. This can defeintely be accomplished in GW2. Anyone saying otherwise is just ignorant.
I have been watching this guy http://www.twitch.tv/oddver stream a lot both from open beta and closed, and sure, there are some zergs and such, but they aren't doing anything useful, but zerging. About 80% of the fights I have seen him in are small scale, typically 5, 10, 20 total players from all factions. He is also using a tank-build to avoid the "one-shotting" and he is doing pretty darned well with it.
He is streaming from Fusang as we speak doing small battles and just body blocked a guy so he couldn't escape him
will give it a watch... been watching all fights have been zerg fest at turret... zerg fest at guardian... still watching to see if it changes
Hope you got to watch it now, because what I saw was
a) Illuminati taking out the turret, but slowly,
b) getting beaten back before they could take the guardian
c) going back with more people, taking turret, guardian and facility
d) the illuminati guy commenting that it cost them nearly everything (the other objectives)
Was up to maybe 20 vs 30 in the c) fight, looked really nice
So, a bit zergy there, but there obviously were other teams doing some damage to the illuminati while they were putting their numbers in one place. The defending dragons made it possible for them to take other objectives.
think its the map layout.. just doesn't do it for me but ill give it another go come launch
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I have been watching this guy http://www.twitch.tv/oddver stream a lot both from open beta and closed, and sure, there are some zergs and such, but they aren't doing anything useful, but zerging. About 80% of the fights I have seen him in are small scale, typically 5, 10, 20 total players from all factions. He is also using a tank-build to avoid the "one-shotting" and he is doing pretty darned well with it.
He is streaming from Fusang as we speak doing small battles and just body blocked a guy so he couldn't escape him
will give it a watch... been watching all fights have been zerg fest at turret... zerg fest at guardian... still watching to see if it changes
Hope you got to watch it now, because what I saw was
a) Illuminati taking out the turret, but slowly,
b) getting beaten back before they could take the guardian
c) going back with more people, taking turret, guardian and facility
d) the illuminati guy commenting that it cost them nearly everything (the other objectives)
Was up to maybe 20 vs 30 in the c) fight, looked really nice
So, a bit zergy there, but there obviously were other teams doing some damage to the illuminati while they were putting their numbers in one place. The defending dragons made it possible for them to take other objectives.
think its the map layout.. just doesn't do it for me but ill give it another go come launch
Someone straight up asked Ragnar yesterday in the IAmA if the devs had plans for another large-scale 3-faction zone like Fusang, one with more interactions like the GW2 Ballistae. I believe his answer was that there is one currently being made and that they're waiting to see how Fusang plays out at launch.
Someone straight up asked Ragnar yesterday in the IAmA if the devs had plans for another large-scale 3-faction zone like Fusang, one with more interactions like the GW2 Ballistae. I believe his answer was that there is one currently being made and that they're waiting to see how Fusang plays out at launch.
hmm wonder why they wouldn't try that one first... oh well will be looking forward to it
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
same thing I found in Fusang.. map just isn't designed very well for persistant type PVP unless you just want to zerg vs zerg all day then I guess it's ok..
It's pretty sad, really. I think that one of the biggest misconceptions about large scale PvP is that it has to be zerg vs zerg. It's not true at all and GW2 is a prime example of it. While WvW has it's share of issues, it is absolutely possible for a small group to feel useful, either escorting caravans or attacking and defending supply camps. Hell, small groups can even defend keeps or choke points.
The feasibility of small group tactics has as much to do with map design as other game play elements. WvW has large maps full of choke points and defensive positions, which allow small groups to not only avoid the zerg but also hold their own by using a bit of strategic thinking. Fusang is nothing like that. It doesn't even seem like it was designed by someone who knows what large scale PvP is about. It's tiny and has no choke points or defensive positions so you're either with the zerg or you're dead by it.
GW2 is the zergiest of them all. I understand what you are trying to say, but the theory doesn't carry over to the practical application in GW2....at least not in the BWE's I have been in.
Not exactly true. I've been on a receiving end of a small group who took over a supply camp and held it off against our supperion numbers. There were like 5 of them and about 20 of us. They had one ballista pointing at the only entrance to the supply camp. We eventually won when a small force was able to sneak around the buildings and distract them long enough for the main force to engage but before that, we wiped a lot. They must've held us off for a good half an hour or so.
Any large scale PvP will have zergs but in GW2 It is absolutely possible for a small team to be useful in WvW.
Once the lay of the land is learned this won't happen. Numbers will will win every time. The one thing that turns me off about GW2 is how zergy both the PVP and the PVE are. There is so much that I do like, but those I don't.
Large numbers don't mean anything when there are choke points and defensive positions. This is what WvW has and that Fusang lacks. The lay of the land means nothing where there is only 1 entrance and it is being defended by a ballista and some AoE.
Your missing a lot here. Why do you stay on these forums anyways? It's your riight, but it's clear you don't like the game.
Your missing a lot here. Why do you stay on these forums anyways? It's your riight, but it's clear you don't like the game.
once again just because someone doesn't love EVERY aspect of this game doesn't mean they do not enjoy the game... I have seen many posts he has spoken highly of many aspects of the game. Sorry not everyone finds every aspect of this game as perfect as you seem to.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
There are 3 batlegrounds so far, one rather large and entertaining and 2 small ones... But If thats all, people might grow very tired of it in no time, despite it being very much fun for now. Where is the persistance in PvP
But, what objectives will open world PvP have?
Will they add more PvP options over time to normal servers too?
The huge zone is persistent. and holding control of the majority og the checkpoints in there will give your faction serverwide advantage buffs realtime. In other words that buff will jump around depending on who is in control. Pretty good stuff imo. So for me I would say PvP is really fun and really saves the day for TSW... with good margin.
Sadly its does not feel persistent, there are no ways to add to the defences of the capture points, It feels more like a huge battleground. Maybe they should have added a modern version of keep sieges, and other things like that.
It is more persistant than GW2 WvWvW that resets every 2 weeks. Though the combat is much more fun in GW2, but the deck/skill system is better in TSW. In the end I chose GW2 because of the pricing model. I mean, to me, both have pretty much the same things as far as skills and pvp goes (except TSW doesn't have the structured pvp).
Your missing a lot here. Why do you stay on these forums anyways? It's your riight, but it's clear you don't like the game.
once again just because someone doesn't love EVERY aspect of this game doesn't mean they do not enjoy the game... I have seen many posts he has spoken highly of many aspects of the game. Sorry not everyone finds every aspect of this game as perfect as you seem to.
It's ok not to love everything. It's not ok to lie. Lying do to lack of understanding still is lying. Say that the land game means nothing is in Fusang is lying due to lack of information and expirence. If you don't like it when I call you on BS, don't post misinformation.
Stop just stop. We all read these forums just like you, and don't need you to tell us what we see.
Your missing a lot here. Why do you stay on these forums anyways? It's your riight, but it's clear you don't like the game.
once again just because someone doesn't love EVERY aspect of this game doesn't mean they do not enjoy the game... I have seen many posts he has spoken highly of many aspects of the game. Sorry not everyone finds every aspect of this game as perfect as you seem to.
It's ok not to love everything. It's not ok to lie. Lying do to lack of understanding still is lying. Say that the land game means nothing is in Fusang is lying due to lack of information and expirence. If you don't like it when I call you on BS, don't post misinformation.
Stop just stop. We all read these forums just like you, and don't need you to tell us what we see.
I see you post more misinformation than most others so take that for what its worth... people are posting their personal experiences just because it doesn't mimic yours doesn't mean they are lying.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
It's ok not to love everything. It's not ok to lie. Lying do to lack of understanding still is lying. Say that the land game means nothing is in Fusang is lying due to lack of information and expirence. If you don't like it when I call you on BS, don't post misinformation.
Stop just stop. We all read these forums just like you, and don't need you to tell us what we see.
It means buffs, and tokens for high QL gear.
However, those buffs really don't matter much outside of PvP. PvE is still highly gear based. And in PvP the balance is so dependant on numbers, that the buffs don't really make much of an impact at all. I think it basically amounts to around 1-2 extra hits to kill someone, or around 1-2 less hits to kill someone. However, when all of the pvp is so heavily zerg based, those 1-2 hits go completely unnoticed. In all practical purposes it means nothing outside of the gear currency.
EDIT: More to the OT;
For PvP in this game to have any lasting experience, it will need somewhat of an overhaul. For one the maps need to be designed a LOT better, and for Fusang, the whole capture system needs to be re-looked at. Anima wells let defenders respawn right on top of the objective, turning it into a mass zerg fest. Fortresses are not mcuh of an experience. All you need is a decent heal / tank combo, and some dps to back them up, and it's yours. I'm really surprised they went w/ the 3 faction PvP system, to then completely ignore everything that made that fun from DAoC.
There also seemed to be some issues with the PvP matching. I entered a few matches with opponents that had ~18k HP, when everyone else had 8k maximum.
Honestly, the PvP is only fun atm because it's mindless killing. And that is almost always fun. However, that wears off very quickly after a week or two if there isn't much of an impact from the objectives. I can honestly say that in most cases I absolutely do not care whether an objective is taken or not. It's all about killing things, and doing those stupid 15-30min quests over and over. In GW2, I most definitely gave a crap about whether or not a fort or an outpost was taken. There was a lot more investment there, and you could customize them to a certain extend as well. There's none of that in this game.
Your missing a lot here. Why do you stay on these forums anyways? It's your riight, but it's clear you don't like the game.
once again just because someone doesn't love EVERY aspect of this game doesn't mean they do not enjoy the game... I have seen many posts he has spoken highly of many aspects of the game. Sorry not everyone finds every aspect of this game as perfect as you seem to.
It's ok not to love everything. It's not ok to lie. Lying do to lack of understanding still is lying. Say that the land game means nothing is in Fusang is lying due to lack of information and expirence. If you don't like it when I call you on BS, don't post misinformation.
Stop just stop. We all read these forums just like you, and don't need you to tell us what we see.
I see you post more misinformation than most others so take that for what its worth... people are posting their personal experiences just because it doesn't mimic yours doesn't mean they are lying.
Show me one time I posted misinformation. 1 time, or are you doing what you usually do?
edit - there was one time, and the OP showed me I was wrong. I admitted and apologized.
It's ok not to love everything. It's not ok to lie. Lying do to lack of understanding still is lying. Say that the land game means nothing is in Fusang is lying due to lack of information and expirence. If you don't like it when I call you on BS, don't post misinformation.
Stop just stop. We all read these forums just like you, and don't need you to tell us what we see.
It means buffs, and tokens for high QL gear.
However, those buffs really don't matter much outside of PvP. PvE is still highly gear based. And in PvP the balance is so dependant on numbers, that the buffs don't really make much of an impact at all. I think it basically amounts to around 1-2 extra hits to kill someone, or around 1-2 less hits to kill someone. However, when all of the pvp is so heavily zerg based, those 1-2 hits go completely unnoticed. In all practical purposes it means nothing outside of the gear currency.
Those buffs are HUGE. I think they are bigger for PvE than PvP. The are so big I can see progression guillds in the future complaining that "We didn't have the buffs, so "Guild X" downed the boss first!"
Comments
The zerg almost always wins because of the sheer amount of DPS it puts out. But yea, you can fight beside the turret or a guardian, until the zerg notices you and 1 shots you.
GW2 is the zergiest of them all. I understand what you are trying to say, but the theory doesn't carry over to the practical application in GW2....at least not in the BWE's I have been in.
when I was playing the guardian was attacking them but few tanks held it off and their zerg wiped us out in seconds... then moved on to take out the guardian.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
So, then you could just take it back and hold 4 facilities while templar has 1 and you get all the most white tokens?
Not exactly true. I've been on a receiving end of a small group who took over a supply camp and held it off against our supperion numbers. There were like 5 of them and about 20 of us. They had one ballista pointing at the only entrance to the supply camp. We eventually won when a small force was able to sneak around the buildings and distract them long enough for the main force to engage but before that, we wiped a lot. They must've held us off for a good half an hour or so.
Any large scale PvP will have zergs but in GW2 It is absolutely possible for a small team to be useful in WvW.
difference is you can sit on youtube and see tons of videos of WvWvW where its not zerg vs zerg.. granted there's only a couple fusang videos up but all I have seen are just zerg fests and all my personal experience is zerg fests... if you can show me otherwise I would be very interested to see
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
People will always zerg in betas and the first time they play. Eventually, if everything goes well, organized teams start forming and strategy and metagaming comes into play. We'll just have to wait for after release to see if this happens in either game.
Once the lay of the land is learned this won't happen. Numbers will will win every time. The one thing that turns me off about GW2 is how zergy both the PVP and the PVE are. There is so much that I do like, but those I don't.
I have been watching this guy http://www.twitch.tv/oddver stream a lot both from open beta and closed, and sure, there are some zergs and such, but they aren't doing anything useful, but zerging. About 80% of the fights I have seen him in are small scale, typically 5, 10, 20 total players from all factions. He is also using a tank-build to avoid the "one-shotting" and he is doing pretty darned well with it.
He is streaming from Fusang as we speak doing small battles and just body blocked a guy so he couldn't escape him
Large numbers don't mean anything when there are choke points and defensive positions. This is what WvW has and that Fusang lacks. The lay of the land means nothing where there is only 1 entrance and it is being defended by a ballista and some AoE.
will give it a watch... been watching all fights have been zerg fest at turret... zerg fest at guardian... still watching to see if it changes
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Hope you got to watch it now, because what I saw was
a) Illuminati taking out the turret, but slowly,
b) getting beaten back before they could take the guardian
c) going back with more people, taking turret, guardian and facility
d) the illuminati guy commenting that it cost them nearly everything (the other objectives)
Was up to maybe 20 vs 30 in the c) fight, looked really nice
So, a bit zergy there, but there obviously were other teams doing some damage to the illuminati while they were putting their numbers in one place. The defending dragons made it possible for them to take other objectives.
If you think there is some magic solution to the ballista + supply camp problem then you clearly have never had half your life taken away from a ballista bolt you can't see because some other player is blocking your view.
And you clearly haven't bothered to take a look at how the camps are setup.
Two Ballistas in GW2 can insta-kill most non-hihg-HP built players. 10 people with 4 ballistas will done right will fuck up 5 times their numbers.
Anyone who think a small group should hold out indefinitely against large numbers is deluding themselves. A defensive position is generally accepted to be a force miltiplier. This can defeintely be accomplished in GW2. Anyone saying otherwise is just ignorant.
think its the map layout.. just doesn't do it for me but ill give it another go come launch
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Someone straight up asked Ragnar yesterday in the IAmA if the devs had plans for another large-scale 3-faction zone like Fusang, one with more interactions like the GW2 Ballistae. I believe his answer was that there is one currently being made and that they're waiting to see how Fusang plays out at launch.
.. But in a good way.
Zerg happens in every mmo that has pvp. GW2 will be no different.
hmm wonder why they wouldn't try that one first... oh well will be looking forward to it
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Your missing a lot here. Why do you stay on these forums anyways? It's your riight, but it's clear you don't like the game.
once again just because someone doesn't love EVERY aspect of this game doesn't mean they do not enjoy the game... I have seen many posts he has spoken highly of many aspects of the game. Sorry not everyone finds every aspect of this game as perfect as you seem to.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
It is more persistant than GW2 WvWvW that resets every 2 weeks. Though the combat is much more fun in GW2, but the deck/skill system is better in TSW. In the end I chose GW2 because of the pricing model. I mean, to me, both have pretty much the same things as far as skills and pvp goes (except TSW doesn't have the structured pvp).
It's ok not to love everything. It's not ok to lie. Lying do to lack of understanding still is lying. Say that the land game means nothing is in Fusang is lying due to lack of information and expirence. If you don't like it when I call you on BS, don't post misinformation.
Stop just stop. We all read these forums just like you, and don't need you to tell us what we see.
I see you post more misinformation than most others so take that for what its worth... people are posting their personal experiences just because it doesn't mimic yours doesn't mean they are lying.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
It means buffs, and tokens for high QL gear.
However, those buffs really don't matter much outside of PvP. PvE is still highly gear based. And in PvP the balance is so dependant on numbers, that the buffs don't really make much of an impact at all. I think it basically amounts to around 1-2 extra hits to kill someone, or around 1-2 less hits to kill someone. However, when all of the pvp is so heavily zerg based, those 1-2 hits go completely unnoticed. In all practical purposes it means nothing outside of the gear currency.
EDIT: More to the OT;
For PvP in this game to have any lasting experience, it will need somewhat of an overhaul. For one the maps need to be designed a LOT better, and for Fusang, the whole capture system needs to be re-looked at. Anima wells let defenders respawn right on top of the objective, turning it into a mass zerg fest. Fortresses are not mcuh of an experience. All you need is a decent heal / tank combo, and some dps to back them up, and it's yours. I'm really surprised they went w/ the 3 faction PvP system, to then completely ignore everything that made that fun from DAoC.
There also seemed to be some issues with the PvP matching. I entered a few matches with opponents that had ~18k HP, when everyone else had 8k maximum.
Honestly, the PvP is only fun atm because it's mindless killing. And that is almost always fun. However, that wears off very quickly after a week or two if there isn't much of an impact from the objectives. I can honestly say that in most cases I absolutely do not care whether an objective is taken or not. It's all about killing things, and doing those stupid 15-30min quests over and over. In GW2, I most definitely gave a crap about whether or not a fort or an outpost was taken. There was a lot more investment there, and you could customize them to a certain extend as well. There's none of that in this game.
Show me one time I posted misinformation. 1 time, or are you doing what you usually do?
edit - there was one time, and the OP showed me I was wrong. I admitted and apologized.
Those buffs are HUGE. I think they are bigger for PvE than PvP. The are so big I can see progression guillds in the future complaining that "We didn't have the buffs, so "Guild X" downed the boss first!"