You also insult every person who does these deeds.
Yet you call me down, time after time.
I think we are done here.
P.S. For all the ridiculous effort you used to make such insulting and unfounded accusations, could of been doing a skill at a quality that other players would buy and purchase to help YOU.
Just as I was preparing an update to this review... here we go.
Obviously, I had little skills; unlike you, I started a new character for Celebration. My old character was stranded on Deliverance (I wrote Exodus in the review, but on second thought I believe it was Deli); and now I remember that that character wasn't even my old character from Golden Valley, because that one was somehow deleted (which, for that matter, also happened to a friend of mine who played there with me). So yeah, I had no skills.
Where you are mistaken is in your belief that I care at all about skills. It takes time and skill and effort to achieve anything in Wurm, true. I built an entire guard tower all by myself with, at the beginning, exactly zero masonry skill. I built two ships, houses for my friends, an entire village, so I know about the time and effort. As for skill, if I want to level up a skill, I will do so; but I'm not going to waste my time making countless bow strings just to level up ropemaking. I'm not going to tolerate a 50% chance of correctly pressing lemons just to level up a beverages skill that may or may not be of some use later to me. When skill becomes all about showing up others about how much your skills are superior to theirs, I say no thanks.
And what do you care about time and effort, since you paid others (like me) to do the most mind-numbing tasks for you? For that matter, you sound exactly like those old MMO elitists who claim to be better than you because they've been playing longer. Apart from the annoying corollary that this prevents anyone who joined Wurm after you from ever, in your eyes, becoming your equal (unless you leave the game yourself, at which point this becomes irrelevant to you anyway), I don't care; I never play a game long enough to even consider toppling you for the worthless prize of having wasted more time at a game. I don't care if I'm a "super star" at some video game -- that's probing the depths of real-life loserdom, if you ask me --, and I don't care if I'm at the bottom of some made-up hierarchy that obviously matters to you; I just want to be able to enjoy the game where I am, without having to be led by a carrot on a treadmill with some illusory notion of "progress".
Sing your praises? Deeds? Who do you think you are, Mother Teresa? Do you still not realize that what I especially object to is the whole notion that you're doing this to *help me*? This is especially disgraceful when one keeps things in perspective and realizes that this is a purely economic exchange between a laborer and an employer; or, as I once asked you, do you thank your employer at the end of the day?
The truth is that you relish that fantasy about yourself. You perversely like the power that you think you hold over others while in reality behaving like some sort of virtual one percent (because it's the coin system, pure and simple, that grants you this power). It's even more perverse because you know that others can't ever hope to "help" you as much as you can "help" them; after all, they don't have the skills for it, so you will always be able to distort the evidence to show how beholden they are to you. Sure, to you, that's "ungrateful", but on Golden Valley, where there was a skill cap and no coin setup, there was a far greater willingness to help one another. In comparison, everything on Freedom is polluted by this sickening desire to make money. Surely you must have heard that a new marketplace at Kami has 120+ merchant stalls, as though every player on the server wanted to sell things? (For that matter, I was no freeloader: I paid for a 2-month subscription and two settlement deeds with real money.)
And to be frank, I think there is something not quite right about you. Remember our later conversation, long after you put me on ignore?
For others here, this all stemmed from this little innocuous exchange in general chat:
"[02:19:08] (Someone) Who has better tools? TD or Amish P? [02:20:38] (Me) Golden Market, perhaps [02:20:59] (Someone) Really? [02:21:18] (Me) larger selection, from what I hear"
And it gave us this:
I saved it because I knew you'd like to distort everything that happened before. You're doing "work" that you don't even like, you're jealous that others might somehow beat you (even when there is no contest), and frankly it made Wurm look like a game I didn't want to play.
Do you realize what a wonderful ambassadrix for Wurm you're making? Who'd want to pick up a game with a community full of Kajmirs?
I've read novels shorter than the OPs post!...As for Wurm online, I tried to give it a go, but after 10 hours or so I could never find any land to build on....Everything was either deeded or wouldnt allow any building.....After enough frustration I moved on...Its probably a great game for those that have played awhile and are paying for it, but as a f2p it didnt seem to work very well (at least not for me).
I was studying a very thick book of French vocabulary before hopping on this forum and for some reason reading your post OP.
Don't get me wrong, it is a very well written post, but I think I had more fun studying obscure French words by heart. If anything, I understand even less of why people play this type of game, even building a bridge over the river Kwai (at least you see progress) or say .. bashing your head against a brick wall sound more fun than getting into this thing.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Personally, Vetarnias' post has more in common with an essay than a proper review, in which respect it is a fascinating, informed and well-written piece. Indeed, I thoroughly enjoyed reading such, if only as it so closely mirrored my own thoughts* on Wurm in both its past, present and likely future iterations.
Thank you for this, honestly. Twitter-speak threads might garner greater attention, yet they will never attain the depth you've reached here.
* Former founding-member of the Scorpion Stone community in GV, I was present until the completion of it's lighthouse and launch of the Freedom server (when most of our thriving community left, in concert, for premium); played nearly five months on premium ere the "grind" wore me out and I realized, belatedly that, to paraphrase your review, nothing you create in Wurm is worthwhile. I returned, briefly, twice since allowing my account to lapse, first to discover that the GV-server was all but abandoned and SS had become a wasteland of as-yet undecayed roads and a smattering of mineshafts, forgotten by all but a single individual still playing, then again, post-tutorializing of the area, at which point I took to playing Minecraft instead. I have fond memories of the game, due in large part to the promise of what was to come and the people I played with, yet I would never so much as consider a return...
I have no opinion on the game itself as I have never played long enough to have an opinion BUT this was the best post I have ever read on MMORPG.com.
Very interesting read. Very amusing and well written. I actually was multi tasking and read this in bits and pieces and was very surprised -
Seriously OP, best post on this site.
Again, I am neither for nor against Wurm as I have only dabbled with it but Damn... Post was good.
BTW, these posts are like three or four months old...wouldn't it have been better to let sleeping dogs lie? Unless, of course, you're a drama queen. If that's the case, then this makes sense.
This thread was only recently brought to my attention, members who barely knew me were disgusted at this review..
Also I didn't bother to look at dates.
Two posts and five screen (Or was it six) of endless negative comments from the OP should tell anyone all they need to know.
Yet the OP still plays.
I can't be bothered to write a War and Peace novel like you and scope out and disect every grievance imagined or otherwise.
I'm glad you understoood the game, the economics, the etiquette, the context and me all in a few days.
I'm sorry for offering jobs I could of done myself to help you earn what you needed.
I'm sorry I suggested ways to help yourself and attempting to teach you things.
I am most definately sorry I offered you space on my merchant which is practically unheard of.
And I'm sorry I could get over a disagree, cause that's what this is all about, the fact that I think someone who is an adult should have basic manners to say a thank-you, not kiss my ass, to ask your opinion.
And I'm most greatful you're 1 out of 1000.
No need to reply, I'm done, you're novels are tiresome.
BTW, these posts are like three or four months old...wouldn't it have been better to let sleeping dogs lie? Unless, of course, you're a drama queen. If that's the case, then this makes sense.
This thread was only recently brought to my attention, members who barely knew me were disgusted at this review..
Also I didn't bother to look at dates.
Two posts and five screen (Or was it six) of endless negative comments from the OP should tell anyone all they need to know.
Yet the OP still plays.
I can't be bothered to write a War and Peace novel like you and scope out and disect every grievance imagined or otherwise.
I'm glad you understoood the game, the economics, the etiquette, the context and me all in a few days.
I'm sorry for offering jobs I could of done myself to help you earn what you needed.
I'm sorry I suggested ways to help yourself and attempting to teach you things.
I am most definately sorry I offered you space on my merchant which is practically unheard of.
And I'm sorry I could get over a disagree, cause that's what this is all about, the fact that I think someone who is an adult should have basic manners to say a thank-you, not kiss my ass, to ask your opinion.
And I'm most greatful you're 1 out of 1000.
No need to reply, I'm done, you're novels are tiresome.
I stopped playing around two weeks ago. Before that, my activity since the end of July was mostly log in, see if anything had been messed up with, then log off. I think I'm done with Wurm.
Why? Various factors. The mess that Celebration has become; nobody giving a damn about what anyone else is doing, except for trade; the complete absence of an endgame; decay on everything that isn't an on-deed wall, fence, or lamp. I tend to come and go between various games, and I like to know that everything will remain as I left it. Wurm goes out of its way to offer no such guarantee, which makes it useless for me to return to the game in a few months just to redo everything I once did, knowing all too well that I will leave again a few weeks/months later. And finally, there's people like you, the server-jumpers, the hardcore traders who think the rest of us want to be "rock stars" like you. I've helped newbies, too, and how many are still playing now? None, that's how many. And I'm tired.
Please, stop it with the "help" part. Everything you gave me was as payment for tasks which I accomplished - unless, of course, you give shovels and pickaxes as some kind of advance against future work, in which case I would, had I known, never have taken them. And as you can see, I did have a look at the forum and discovered the thread where you're trying to elicit a bunch of thank-yous through the excuse of a contest. I'm not even sure whether you're genuinely considering quitting the game or not; either way, I don't care since I'm no longer playing and you're no longer on Celebration.
As for the merchant, it was all a misunderstanding. I thought you kept a cut of the sales - I would have expected it, and it may well be what you did. Did I not say, when it was clear that things were not going to improve between us, that you could keep the money? It's in the transcript I posted. And I made it clear to you that I did not know how limited space was on merchants, since I've never owned one and never will. It's all part of the way money has debased every aspect of Wurm, and I find it sickening.
Please, stop it with the "help" part. Everything you gave me was as payment for tasks which I accomplished - unless, of course, you give shovels and pickaxes as some kind of advance against future work, in which case I would, had I known, never have taken them.
You should start a new toon from scratch, refusing *any* kind of help, only you and the environment. If not for the challenge (it is, believe me) then to learn what kind of help you really got. It's not about tools, that's a very minor part... and don't tell me such an attempt would be boring.
If you can't play nicely, stick to SP games rather than MMOs. Not sure how you expected to be able to play an MMO when you seem to want everyone to play your way. A lot of people prefer to sell things in game to get coin as they can't afford to spend RL money on a game. A lot of people do things a certain way, and have certain specificities to their idiosyncracies, that will differ from yours. If you thoroughly lack the empathy to consider someone else's perspectives and paradigms whilst insisting on attempts to impose your own, you really have no place anywhere in modern society, and should go back to the Dark Ages.
Kajmir is well liked and well respected by a great many people, and having a conflict of personalities with one person is hardly an excuse to give up on a game. Just means you might want to stay away from the complex politicosocial aspects of Wurm.
"Take my love, take my land, Take me where I cannot stand. I don't care, I'm still free, You can't take the sky from me. Take me out to the black, Tell them I ain't comin' back. Burn the land and boil the sea, You can't take the sky from me. There's no place I can be, Since I found Serenity. But you can't take the sky from me... "
As one of the people who would sing Kajmir's praises....
You sound like an ungrateful jerk. She *paid* you for making low ql lamps, where she is a blacksmith. With similar smithing skills to Kaj, I could make a 25ql lamp in, maybe, 45 seconds.
I think it was bad form for the names to have been left in the OP, the points could have been made without naming specific places and individuals. However, I also think it does little good for a team of Wurmians to cruise over here and try to put the OP down. I get that you are just trying to stick up for a friend but this kind of behaviour isn't a good advertisement for the game imo. It would probably have been better to ask a mod on here to edit out specific references to individuals than to try to argue it out.
Sometimes you run into players that you just don't gel well with, whether by personality or culture (the latter being easily overlooked when you are interacting with folks of different cultures from the comfort of your own computer chair). I had a similar introduction to Wurm as the OP and met a person who I jarred with. Neither of us were at fault really we just had differing views, etiquette, goals and so forth. Thankfully I moved away and was privileged to have met some real stand-up folks which made a good game great for me.
With regards to the review:
I agree with some of what you have written but disagree at the same time. Many of the aspects which you have discussed solely as negative also have positive benefits which you seem to have overlooked. I won't go into specific details as I don't have the time to go into it on a point by point basis, however I play the game in a similar way that you seem to want to so it is possible if you can manage to let go of the flaws.
Once someone comes along and does what Rolf has done better I'll be glad to try it out, but lets face it, nobody on the market does what Wurm tries to do better at the moment.
Not sure why folks say they find snobs in Wurm (maybe if all on the PvP side). I have played on and off over the past few years for about three month bits and have run across also zero mean / rude people. Most are nice and helpful.
Comments
Just as I was preparing an update to this review... here we go.
Obviously, I had little skills; unlike you, I started a new character for Celebration. My old character was stranded on Deliverance (I wrote Exodus in the review, but on second thought I believe it was Deli); and now I remember that that character wasn't even my old character from Golden Valley, because that one was somehow deleted (which, for that matter, also happened to a friend of mine who played there with me). So yeah, I had no skills.
Where you are mistaken is in your belief that I care at all about skills. It takes time and skill and effort to achieve anything in Wurm, true. I built an entire guard tower all by myself with, at the beginning, exactly zero masonry skill. I built two ships, houses for my friends, an entire village, so I know about the time and effort. As for skill, if I want to level up a skill, I will do so; but I'm not going to waste my time making countless bow strings just to level up ropemaking. I'm not going to tolerate a 50% chance of correctly pressing lemons just to level up a beverages skill that may or may not be of some use later to me. When skill becomes all about showing up others about how much your skills are superior to theirs, I say no thanks.
And what do you care about time and effort, since you paid others (like me) to do the most mind-numbing tasks for you? For that matter, you sound exactly like those old MMO elitists who claim to be better than you because they've been playing longer. Apart from the annoying corollary that this prevents anyone who joined Wurm after you from ever, in your eyes, becoming your equal (unless you leave the game yourself, at which point this becomes irrelevant to you anyway), I don't care; I never play a game long enough to even consider toppling you for the worthless prize of having wasted more time at a game. I don't care if I'm a "super star" at some video game -- that's probing the depths of real-life loserdom, if you ask me --, and I don't care if I'm at the bottom of some made-up hierarchy that obviously matters to you; I just want to be able to enjoy the game where I am, without having to be led by a carrot on a treadmill with some illusory notion of "progress".
Sing your praises? Deeds? Who do you think you are, Mother Teresa? Do you still not realize that what I especially object to is the whole notion that you're doing this to *help me*? This is especially disgraceful when one keeps things in perspective and realizes that this is a purely economic exchange between a laborer and an employer; or, as I once asked you, do you thank your employer at the end of the day?
The truth is that you relish that fantasy about yourself. You perversely like the power that you think you hold over others while in reality behaving like some sort of virtual one percent (because it's the coin system, pure and simple, that grants you this power). It's even more perverse because you know that others can't ever hope to "help" you as much as you can "help" them; after all, they don't have the skills for it, so you will always be able to distort the evidence to show how beholden they are to you. Sure, to you, that's "ungrateful", but on Golden Valley, where there was a skill cap and no coin setup, there was a far greater willingness to help one another. In comparison, everything on Freedom is polluted by this sickening desire to make money. Surely you must have heard that a new marketplace at Kami has 120+ merchant stalls, as though every player on the server wanted to sell things? (For that matter, I was no freeloader: I paid for a 2-month subscription and two settlement deeds with real money.)
And to be frank, I think there is something not quite right about you. Remember our later conversation, long after you put me on ignore?
For others here, this all stemmed from this little innocuous exchange in general chat:
"[02:19:08] (Someone) Who has better tools? TD or Amish P?
[02:20:38] (Me) Golden Market, perhaps
[02:20:59] (Someone) Really?
[02:21:18] (Me) larger selection, from what I hear"
And it gave us this:
I saved it because I knew you'd like to distort everything that happened before. You're doing "work" that you don't even like, you're jealous that others might somehow beat you (even when there is no contest), and frankly it made Wurm look like a game I didn't want to play.
Do you realize what a wonderful ambassadrix for Wurm you're making? Who'd want to pick up a game with a community full of Kajmirs?
Signed,
The Ungrateful Extremist.
P.S.: Thank you.
This "duell" from above is so laughable but also, in a way, most entertaining.
Go on!
/me grabs some popcorn
I was studying a very thick book of French vocabulary before hopping on this forum and for some reason reading your post OP.
Don't get me wrong, it is a very well written post, but I think I had more fun studying obscure French words by heart. If anything, I understand even less of why people play this type of game, even building a bridge over the river Kwai (at least you see progress) or say .. bashing your head against a brick wall sound more fun than getting into this thing.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I have no opinion on the game itself as I have never played long enough to have an opinion BUT this was the best post I have ever read on MMORPG.com.
Very interesting read. Very amusing and well written. I actually was multi tasking and read this in bits and pieces and was very surprised -
Seriously OP, best post on this site.
Again, I am neither for nor against Wurm as I have only dabbled with it but Damn... Post was good.
This thread was only recently brought to my attention, members who barely knew me were disgusted at this review..
Also I didn't bother to look at dates.
Two posts and five screen (Or was it six) of endless negative comments from the OP should tell anyone all they need to know.
Yet the OP still plays.
I can't be bothered to write a War and Peace novel like you and scope out and disect every grievance imagined or otherwise.
I'm glad you understoood the game, the economics, the etiquette, the context and me all in a few days.
I'm sorry for offering jobs I could of done myself to help you earn what you needed.
I'm sorry I suggested ways to help yourself and attempting to teach you things.
I am most definately sorry I offered you space on my merchant which is practically unheard of.
And I'm sorry I could get over a disagree, cause that's what this is all about, the fact that I think someone who is an adult should have basic manners to say a thank-you, not kiss my ass, to ask your opinion.
And I'm most greatful you're 1 out of 1000.
No need to reply, I'm done, you're novels are tiresome.
I stopped playing around two weeks ago. Before that, my activity since the end of July was mostly log in, see if anything had been messed up with, then log off. I think I'm done with Wurm.
Why? Various factors. The mess that Celebration has become; nobody giving a damn about what anyone else is doing, except for trade; the complete absence of an endgame; decay on everything that isn't an on-deed wall, fence, or lamp. I tend to come and go between various games, and I like to know that everything will remain as I left it. Wurm goes out of its way to offer no such guarantee, which makes it useless for me to return to the game in a few months just to redo everything I once did, knowing all too well that I will leave again a few weeks/months later. And finally, there's people like you, the server-jumpers, the hardcore traders who think the rest of us want to be "rock stars" like you. I've helped newbies, too, and how many are still playing now? None, that's how many. And I'm tired.
Please, stop it with the "help" part. Everything you gave me was as payment for tasks which I accomplished - unless, of course, you give shovels and pickaxes as some kind of advance against future work, in which case I would, had I known, never have taken them. And as you can see, I did have a look at the forum and discovered the thread where you're trying to elicit a bunch of thank-yous through the excuse of a contest. I'm not even sure whether you're genuinely considering quitting the game or not; either way, I don't care since I'm no longer playing and you're no longer on Celebration.
As for the merchant, it was all a misunderstanding. I thought you kept a cut of the sales - I would have expected it, and it may well be what you did. Did I not say, when it was clear that things were not going to improve between us, that you could keep the money? It's in the transcript I posted. And I made it clear to you that I did not know how limited space was on merchants, since I've never owned one and never will. It's all part of the way money has debased every aspect of Wurm, and I find it sickening.
You should start a new toon from scratch, refusing *any* kind of help, only you and the environment. If not for the challenge (it is, believe me) then to learn what kind of help you really got. It's not about tools, that's a very minor part... and don't tell me such an attempt would be boring.
If you can't play nicely, stick to SP games rather than MMOs. Not sure how you expected to be able to play an MMO when you seem to want everyone to play your way. A lot of people prefer to sell things in game to get coin as they can't afford to spend RL money on a game. A lot of people do things a certain way, and have certain specificities to their idiosyncracies, that will differ from yours. If you thoroughly lack the empathy to consider someone else's perspectives and paradigms whilst insisting on attempts to impose your own, you really have no place anywhere in modern society, and should go back to the Dark Ages.
Kajmir is well liked and well respected by a great many people, and having a conflict of personalities with one person is hardly an excuse to give up on a game. Just means you might want to stay away from the complex politicosocial aspects of Wurm.
"Take my love, take my land,
Take me where I cannot stand.
I don't care, I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.
Take me out to the black,
Tell them I ain't comin' back.
Burn the land and boil the sea,
You can't take the sky from me.
There's no place I can be,
Since I found Serenity.
But you can't take the sky from me... "
As one of the people who would sing Kajmir's praises....
You sound like an ungrateful jerk. She *paid* you for making low ql lamps, where she is a blacksmith. With similar smithing skills to Kaj, I could make a 25ql lamp in, maybe, 45 seconds.
Darthryan
I think it was bad form for the names to have been left in the OP, the points could have been made without naming specific places and individuals. However, I also think it does little good for a team of Wurmians to cruise over here and try to put the OP down. I get that you are just trying to stick up for a friend but this kind of behaviour isn't a good advertisement for the game imo. It would probably have been better to ask a mod on here to edit out specific references to individuals than to try to argue it out.
Sometimes you run into players that you just don't gel well with, whether by personality or culture (the latter being easily overlooked when you are interacting with folks of different cultures from the comfort of your own computer chair). I had a similar introduction to Wurm as the OP and met a person who I jarred with. Neither of us were at fault really we just had differing views, etiquette, goals and so forth. Thankfully I moved away and was privileged to have met some real stand-up folks which made a good game great for me.
With regards to the review:
I agree with some of what you have written but disagree at the same time. Many of the aspects which you have discussed solely as negative also have positive benefits which you seem to have overlooked. I won't go into specific details as I don't have the time to go into it on a point by point basis, however I play the game in a similar way that you seem to want to so it is possible if you can manage to let go of the flaws.
Once someone comes along and does what Rolf has done better I'll be glad to try it out, but lets face it, nobody on the market does what Wurm tries to do better at the moment.