It isn't so much about the button mashing (because that's pretty common as other have stated) but the fact that abilities are so boring.
Yes, you can get a skill that stuns if the target has a bleed on them. Ok, so you get a bleed ability and the stun ability. The fact that you're limited to I think 7 skill slots really kills it. You basically have a very simple rotation and thats it. Put a debuff on target, cast another spell that gets a bonus because of that debuff, now spam your basic builder attack till you're ready to repeat the first process.
Combat never changes. You always do the same thing from one fight to the next. I'll use a very VERY basic example of how a simple combat system can still be fun.
In WoW, as a druid, I could sneak around in cat form, ambush someone for big damage, unload a few attacks then switch to bear form and do a few more attacks and a big stun. I would then switch to human and cast a root, take a few steps back, heal myself, switch back into bear form and charge them to interrupt a spell cast or something. Maybe switch to cat form again? Maybe stay bear... I would have TONS of options in combat. Each fight would be very different.
That is what this game lacks, you have 7 skills and thats it. Those skills always do the same thing no matter what and never change. They really should have given you two sets of 7 skills, one for each weapon. Allowing you to switch between then changing your build and playstyle. But instead you get limited to one set of 7 which really makes having 2 weapons pointless as they share those limited 7 slots.
I have wanted to love this game, but I can't. It's just tedious. The combat is a horrible button mash fest. Everything else is stellar. The atmosphere is perfect, the quests are fine. But the combat is atrocious. AOC was sooo much better in this area. I've gone back to lotro and won't be renewing my sub. I appreciate TSW and what it's trying to be, but I don't have the time or patience for it. Instead of getting better, things just get worse as you progress. Crafting is a pain in the ass instead of something to look forward to. It seems like tedium and repetition are the games replacement for leveling up due to lack of content. Otherwise, a small area takes forever due to really slow advancement and the intention of keeping players in one area as long as possible. On top of that, there is very little reference to secret societies and all that. TOTALLY dissappointed...
You are certainly entitled to your own opinion even if you are wrong.
This is the exact reason I didn't purchase it. I loved everything but the combat.
Those talking about "decks" and what not. Sure, there is some synergy you can probably get into, but I never got that far into beta to really explore it. It still comes down to only having 8 skills. I found myself pretty much just mashing 2-3 buttons the entire time, and firing off the other 5-6 for defensive CD's, or special boosts in combat. Other than that though, it doesn't feel all that in depth.
This has nothing to do with "tab targetting". Dodging simply seems stupid in the game. You can only do it 1 time and the CD is incredibly long. Also, the fact that every single deck (no matter what you combine) is a "WoW Rogue" combat point system. It just doesn't feel different enough.
Combine that with the incredible lack of replayability in the game, it is pretty much a 1 and done as far as creating characters. Again, the story and the quests I thought were great, but the gameplay (combat, what you are doing 90% of the time playing) is simply too mashy and boring, I thought.
To each their own, but I can see how people get bored of this. I was within 2-4 hours of playing the beta. Pulling X amount of mobs, popping a few CD's and spamming 2 AoE's to kill them all. Too easy, too brainless.
I now do as Aerowyn states, changing builds from encounter to encounter depending on the enemies i'm about to face. I usually had my main solo build (basically my main DPS one) but having builds for different purpose makes it all much fun and dynamic.
it is possible to go around just using the same build, yes, but it's like going to a restaurant, seing 20 different meals, all good, all enjoyable, all with their own "flavor" and spice, then always selecting the same, no matter what, over and over again. If on top of that you then complaint about lack of variety, well... it's completely on you.
I don't have a problem with variety and I love the fact that you can use just about any weapon or ability in the game. It's more with the fact that once you're set on a build, the game forces you into spamming the same 2-3 buttons with pretty much every spec. Sure you could use 7 attacks if you wanted to spice up the combat, but it's not very effective. You're better off using 1 builder and the one or two consumers that better complement your passives. The rest of the points are better spent in utility skills that generally have long cooldowns.
This isn't just me either, everywhere I look, even in the hardest of content, I see people spamming the same 2-3 abilities all the time. When I look at their builds, that's pretty much all the attacks they have. These are good players, too. Why do they do that? Because it's the most effective way to get things done.
I personally don't think it should be, but for me being effective comes first. I'd love for my tank to have a very complex rotation with various different attacks, but I can't because if I pick more attacks I'd have to give up defensive cooldowns, interrupts and taunts, thereby making things harder for my team. So I spam the same ability, because I can't afford to use more.
I now do as Aerowyn states, changing builds from encounter to encounter depending on the enemies i'm about to face. I usually had my main solo build (basically my main DPS one) but having builds for different purpose makes it all much fun and dynamic.
it is possible to go around just using the same build, yes, but it's like going to a restaurant, seing 20 different meals, all good, all enjoyable, all with their own "flavor" and spice, then always selecting the same, no matter what, over and over again. If on top of that you then complaint about lack of variety, well... it's completely on you.
I don't have a problem with variety and I love the fact that you can use just about any weapon or ability in the game. It's more with the fact that once you're set on a build, the game forces you into spamming the same 2-3 buttons with pretty much every spec. Sure you could use 7 attacks if you wanted to spice up the combat, but it's not very effective. You're better off using 1 builder and the one or two consumers that better complement your passives. The rest of the points are better spent in utility skills that generally have long cooldowns.
This isn't just me either, everywhere I look, even in the hardest of content, I see people spamming the same 2-3 abilities all the time. When I look at their builds, that's pretty much all the attacks they have. These are good players, too. Why do they do that? Because it's the most effective way to get things done.
I personally don't think it should be, but for me being effective comes first. I'd love for my tank to have a very complex rotation with various different attacks, but I can't because if I pick more attacks I'd have to give up defensive cooldowns, interrupts and taunts, thereby making things harder for my team. So I spam the same ability, because I can't afford to use more.
curious as to which MMO has this because I have played tank in countless MMOs and can't remember playing one that had what I would call a complex rotation to tank anything.. come to think of it can't remember any MMO ever having a complex rotation per say.. some you had more options for differn't situations like dominators in Rift or Druids in WoW and such but overall the min/max rotations people fall into are far from complex in most cases... also don't see diablo fans complain they only get 6 buttons total either or fps complain they mainly only using two buttons.. not everything is about how many buttons you get to use
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I now do as Aerowyn states, changing builds from encounter to encounter depending on the enemies i'm about to face. I usually had my main solo build (basically my main DPS one) but having builds for different purpose makes it all much fun and dynamic.
it is possible to go around just using the same build, yes, but it's like going to a restaurant, seing 20 different meals, all good, all enjoyable, all with their own "flavor" and spice, then always selecting the same, no matter what, over and over again. If on top of that you then complaint about lack of variety, well... it's completely on you.
I don't have a problem with variety and I love the fact that you can use just about any weapon or ability in the game. It's more with the fact that once you're set on a build, the game forces you into spamming the same 2-3 buttons with pretty much every spec. Sure you could use 7 attacks if you wanted to spice up the combat, but it's not very effective. You're better off using 1 builder and the one or two consumers that better complement your passives. The rest of the points are better spent in utility skills that generally have long cooldowns.
This isn't just me either, everywhere I look, even in the hardest of content, I see people spamming the same 2-3 abilities all the time. When I look at their builds, that's pretty much all the attacks they have. These are good players, too. Why do they do that? Because it's the most effective way to get things done.
I personally don't think it should be, but for me being effective comes first. I'd love for my tank to have a very complex rotation with various different attacks, but I can't because if I pick more attacks I'd have to give up defensive cooldowns, interrupts and taunts, thereby making things harder for my team. So I spam the same ability, because I can't afford to use more.
curious as to which MMO has this because I have played tank in countless MMOs and can't remember playing one that had what I would call a complex rotation to tank anything.. come to think of it can't remember any MMO ever having a complex rotation per say.. some you had more options for differn't situations like dominators in Rift or Druids in WoW and such but overall the min/max rotations people fall into are far from complex in most cases... also don't see diablo fans complain they only get 6 buttons total either or fps complain they mainly only using two buttons.. not everything is about how many buttons you get to use
Last MMO I tanked in was City of Heroes. I played a SS/Electric tank. I used 4 attacks at least. All with CDs under 15 secs, or even faster depending on how much attack speed I was using at the moment.
This is the first MMO where my tanking rotation consists of hitting one button 90% of the time.
Last MMO I tanked in was City of Heroes. I played a SS/Electric tank. I used 4 attacks at least. All with CDs under 15 secs, or even faster depending on how much attack speed I was using at the moment.
This is the first MMO where my tanking rotation consists of hitting one button 90% of the time.
you can easily setup a tank build in this game to utilize all 7 active skills and use them all constantly.. so not really sure what your issue is if you enjoyed CoH and were fine with a 4 button rotation. You could also setup multiple tank builds depending on the mob setup and difficulty not to mention depending on how strong your group is.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Last MMO I tanked in was City of Heroes. I played a SS/Electric tank. I used 4 attacks at least. All with CDs under 15 secs, or even faster depending on how much attack speed I was using at the moment.
This is the first MMO where my tanking rotation consists of hitting one button 90% of the time.
you can easily setup a tank build in this game to utilize all 7 active skills and use them all constantly.. so not really sure what your issue is if you enjoyed CoH and were fine with a 4 button rotation.
I'm sure you could, but that tank won't make it past the first boss in NM Polaris.
Last MMO I tanked in was City of Heroes. I played a SS/Electric tank. I used 4 attacks at least. All with CDs under 15 secs, or even faster depending on how much attack speed I was using at the moment.
This is the first MMO where my tanking rotation consists of hitting one button 90% of the time.
you can easily setup a tank build in this game to utilize all 7 active skills and use them all constantly.. so not really sure what your issue is if you enjoyed CoH and were fine with a 4 button rotation.
I'm sure you could, but that tank won't make it past the first boss in NM Polaris.
says you, as I'm sure you have tried all the combinations. Give this a try its not one button and works just fine
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Last MMO I tanked in was City of Heroes. I played a SS/Electric tank. I used 4 attacks at least. All with CDs under 15 secs, or even faster depending on how much attack speed I was using at the moment.
This is the first MMO where my tanking rotation consists of hitting one button 90% of the time.
you can easily setup a tank build in this game to utilize all 7 active skills and use them all constantly.. so not really sure what your issue is if you enjoyed CoH and were fine with a 4 button rotation.
I'm sure you could, but that tank won't make it past the first boss in NM Polaris.
says you, as I'm sure you have tried all the combinations
I've tried quite a few, which is more than you and most posters in this thread have tried.
Last MMO I tanked in was City of Heroes. I played a SS/Electric tank. I used 4 attacks at least. All with CDs under 15 secs, or even faster depending on how much attack speed I was using at the moment.
This is the first MMO where my tanking rotation consists of hitting one button 90% of the time.
you can easily setup a tank build in this game to utilize all 7 active skills and use them all constantly.. so not really sure what your issue is if you enjoyed CoH and were fine with a 4 button rotation.
I'm sure you could, but that tank won't make it past the first boss in NM Polaris.
says you, as I'm sure you have tried all the combinations
I've tried quite a few, which is more than you and most posters in this thread have tried.
posted a build above and others on that site work fine.. there's choices out there for people who want to use them.. if you are stuck on one button tanking that's on you.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Last MMO I tanked in was City of Heroes. I played a SS/Electric tank. I used 4 attacks at least. All with CDs under 15 secs, or even faster depending on how much attack speed I was using at the moment.
This is the first MMO where my tanking rotation consists of hitting one button 90% of the time.
you can easily setup a tank build in this game to utilize all 7 active skills and use them all constantly.. so not really sure what your issue is if you enjoyed CoH and were fine with a 4 button rotation.
I'm sure you could, but that tank won't make it past the first boss in NM Polaris.
says you, as I'm sure you have tried all the combinations
I've tried quite a few, which is more than you and most posters in this thread have tried.
posted a build above and others on that site work fine.. there's choices out there for people who want to use them.. if you are stuck on one button tanking that's on you.
The build you linked is not very good. Which I guess is why Ryahl said it was an elite tanking build for people on an AP budget. Just because anything works at that level doesn't mean it's good. That build won't cut it in nightmare. No interrupts, only 1 defensive CD, next.
Last MMO I tanked in was City of Heroes. I played a SS/Electric tank. I used 4 attacks at least. All with CDs under 15 secs, or even faster depending on how much attack speed I was using at the moment.
This is the first MMO where my tanking rotation consists of hitting one button 90% of the time.
you can easily setup a tank build in this game to utilize all 7 active skills and use them all constantly.. so not really sure what your issue is if you enjoyed CoH and were fine with a 4 button rotation.
I'm sure you could, but that tank won't make it past the first boss in NM Polaris.
says you, as I'm sure you have tried all the combinations
I've tried quite a few, which is more than you and most posters in this thread have tried.
posted a build above and others on that site work fine.. there's choices out there for people who want to use them.. if you are stuck on one button tanking that's on you.
The build you linked is not very good. Which I guess is why Ryahl said uit was an elite tanking build for people on an AP budget. Just because anything works at that level doesn't mean it's good. That build won't cut it in nightmare. No interrupts, only 1 defensive CD, next.
depends on the rest of the group as well.. worked fine in CB.. but if you hate the combat in this game so much why even play?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Comments
I agree, combat is boring in TSW.
It isn't so much about the button mashing (because that's pretty common as other have stated) but the fact that abilities are so boring.
Yes, you can get a skill that stuns if the target has a bleed on them. Ok, so you get a bleed ability and the stun ability. The fact that you're limited to I think 7 skill slots really kills it. You basically have a very simple rotation and thats it. Put a debuff on target, cast another spell that gets a bonus because of that debuff, now spam your basic builder attack till you're ready to repeat the first process.
Combat never changes. You always do the same thing from one fight to the next. I'll use a very VERY basic example of how a simple combat system can still be fun.
In WoW, as a druid, I could sneak around in cat form, ambush someone for big damage, unload a few attacks then switch to bear form and do a few more attacks and a big stun. I would then switch to human and cast a root, take a few steps back, heal myself, switch back into bear form and charge them to interrupt a spell cast or something. Maybe switch to cat form again? Maybe stay bear... I would have TONS of options in combat. Each fight would be very different.
That is what this game lacks, you have 7 skills and thats it. Those skills always do the same thing no matter what and never change. They really should have given you two sets of 7 skills, one for each weapon. Allowing you to switch between then changing your build and playstyle. But instead you get limited to one set of 7 which really makes having 2 weapons pointless as they share those limited 7 slots.
Or you use team dynamics, where different members produce or exploit different states or effects.
You are certainly entitled to your own opinion even if you are wrong.
Seaspite
Playing ESO on my X-Box
This is the exact reason I didn't purchase it. I loved everything but the combat.
Those talking about "decks" and what not. Sure, there is some synergy you can probably get into, but I never got that far into beta to really explore it. It still comes down to only having 8 skills. I found myself pretty much just mashing 2-3 buttons the entire time, and firing off the other 5-6 for defensive CD's, or special boosts in combat. Other than that though, it doesn't feel all that in depth.
This has nothing to do with "tab targetting". Dodging simply seems stupid in the game. You can only do it 1 time and the CD is incredibly long. Also, the fact that every single deck (no matter what you combine) is a "WoW Rogue" combat point system. It just doesn't feel different enough.
Combine that with the incredible lack of replayability in the game, it is pretty much a 1 and done as far as creating characters. Again, the story and the quests I thought were great, but the gameplay (combat, what you are doing 90% of the time playing) is simply too mashy and boring, I thought.
To each their own, but I can see how people get bored of this. I was within 2-4 hours of playing the beta. Pulling X amount of mobs, popping a few CD's and spamming 2 AoE's to kill them all. Too easy, too brainless.
I don't have a problem with variety and I love the fact that you can use just about any weapon or ability in the game. It's more with the fact that once you're set on a build, the game forces you into spamming the same 2-3 buttons with pretty much every spec. Sure you could use 7 attacks if you wanted to spice up the combat, but it's not very effective. You're better off using 1 builder and the one or two consumers that better complement your passives. The rest of the points are better spent in utility skills that generally have long cooldowns.
This isn't just me either, everywhere I look, even in the hardest of content, I see people spamming the same 2-3 abilities all the time. When I look at their builds, that's pretty much all the attacks they have. These are good players, too. Why do they do that? Because it's the most effective way to get things done.
I personally don't think it should be, but for me being effective comes first. I'd love for my tank to have a very complex rotation with various different attacks, but I can't because if I pick more attacks I'd have to give up defensive cooldowns, interrupts and taunts, thereby making things harder for my team. So I spam the same ability, because I can't afford to use more.
curious as to which MMO has this because I have played tank in countless MMOs and can't remember playing one that had what I would call a complex rotation to tank anything.. come to think of it can't remember any MMO ever having a complex rotation per say.. some you had more options for differn't situations like dominators in Rift or Druids in WoW and such but overall the min/max rotations people fall into are far from complex in most cases... also don't see diablo fans complain they only get 6 buttons total either or fps complain they mainly only using two buttons.. not everything is about how many buttons you get to use
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Last MMO I tanked in was City of Heroes. I played a SS/Electric tank. I used 4 attacks at least. All with CDs under 15 secs, or even faster depending on how much attack speed I was using at the moment.
This is the first MMO where my tanking rotation consists of hitting one button 90% of the time.
you can easily setup a tank build in this game to utilize all 7 active skills and use them all constantly.. so not really sure what your issue is if you enjoyed CoH and were fine with a 4 button rotation. You could also setup multiple tank builds depending on the mob setup and difficulty not to mention depending on how strong your group is.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I'm sure you could, but that tank won't make it past the first boss in NM Polaris.
says you, as I'm sure you have tried all the combinations. Give this a try its not one button and works just fine
http://tswguides.blogspot.com/2012/06/weakened-tank-build-chaoshammer.html
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I've tried quite a few, which is more than you and most posters in this thread have tried.
posted a build above and others on that site work fine.. there's choices out there for people who want to use them.. if you are stuck on one button tanking that's on you.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
The build you linked is not very good. Which I guess is why Ryahl said it was an elite tanking build for people on an AP budget. Just because anything works at that level doesn't mean it's good. That build won't cut it in nightmare. No interrupts, only 1 defensive CD, next.
depends on the rest of the group as well.. worked fine in CB.. but if you hate the combat in this game so much why even play?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg