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Combat Questions
Wolvards
Member Posts: 650
So I know what the combat will be... Limited Hot-bar, semi-restricted classes and the likes, but this question goes out to you gamers that want the game to by Skyrim Online, or FPS....
What EXACTLY do you want? Don't say Skyrim, explain in detail HOW the combat would work.
First person view only right? What about skills? how do they work? How do you swap skills? is it hot-bared? Or is it Skyrim type where you have to "pause" the game and swap skills mid combat?
The only game I can semi relate to is DF. Is that the gameplay you guys want? I'm just trying to understand, I've read many posts about how if it isn't Skyrim combat the game will be "doomed".
So please, elaborate.
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Comments
I've seen it mentioned in forum topics here that there is no First Person view. I'm hoping for Skyrim style combat as I really loved it
. Apparently it was Skyrims weak point but I found it felt really good. It felt real.
I know that there is no first person view, it will be third person with limited hotbar, and classes, but i've seen many many people post if it isn't Skyrim online, or FPS based, that the game will fail, and I just don't understand how that combat would work in an MMO universe.
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I find it unusual there is no option to flip between the two. I found it easier to go 3rd person for melee combat. All I want is the mechanics to be there. I can dodge and aim attacks by moving my character and not a tab targeting system.
EDIT: Also would like to see the equip left/right hand function to be in play with the relevant mouse clicks. You can equip certain weapons/spell via hotkey to equip each hand.
it currently does work in the MMO universe. Darkfall, Mortal Online does it perfectly and no the FPS combat is NOT why the games were not hugely successful and yes Darkfall does FPS WITH 100+ people on the screen fighting. So I really do not understand where people get this idea that FPS combat doesnt work in the MMO universe when it already exists!
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Its not the FPS shooter part, it's the Skyrim part. How would SKYRIM combat work in an MMO setting? How would you swap spells? It works for Skyrim cause it's single palyer, and you essentialy "pause" to swap to healing/shield/bow/whatever. But in an MMO setting SKYRIM combat WOULDNT work. Yet all i hear and read is...
"If it doesn't have the trademark Skyrim/TES combat the game will fail".
How do you put Skyrim combat into an MMO?
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
darkfall nearly has IDENTICAL FPS combat as Skyrim does. magic, melee, shield and besides nobody and I mean NOBODY is saying it has to be EXACTLY like Skyrim where do people get that idea from?
WTF?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqxfc-rS-3A
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You can swap skills using keybinds.
Assign a weapon/spell to 1-5 to left hand.
Assign a weapon/spell to 6-0 for left hand.
I have a mod for Skyrim installed called extra hot keys. I never need to pause during combat now to take potions or swap weapons/spells. Like others have mentioned, it can be done in an MMO enviroment.
EDIT: Actually, I can voice activate the hot keys with another bit of software
In Darkfall I had I think about 100 skills/spells (mostly spells) that I could access in real time without moving my finger off the WSAD.
basically it was F1 - F10 with 1-0 for each of the function keys. not to mention a great many of the F keys I could get to with the middle scroll of my mouse.
I am surprised how people play FPS single player games all the time but somehow because there is another person in the world they think its not possible all because some dev firm said so.
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Red: This is the kind of answer i was looking for in my OP, it explains how the combats works/worked and how you think it should work in TES. Not just saying, "It's just like Darkfall!" (i still don't know how you hit "F5" through "F10" without removing your hands off the keyboard.... Long fingers? Seriously i struggle with #7...)
Green: This is the type of statement I would expect from someone of the DF community. Its l33tist. It's straight stupid.
Maybe a majority of gamers (obviously not DF because what was it's largest population? 50k?) don't like FPS twitch based for their MMOs. It's much more complex than what would be enjoyable to a larger scale of player base. How is that not apparent? I've seen reference with TES:O to how DAoC was a "niche" game at 250k subs at i t's pinnacle, when DF in the last 5 years didn't touch those numbers? That alone yells niche.
I made this OP to try and have a conversation about how the combat would work because I just didn't get how it would be playable by a decent/large number of players. But instead I got a DF fanboy that just raged because TES:O isn't the same combat as Darkfall.
I am just surprised at how people play such a tough, complex game, then expect game developers to create that same feeling for a AAA title that only a few thousand players will enjoy. Just doesn't make sense.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
What I find strange is that Skyrim sold over 3.5 million copies in under 48 hours of release (God knows what it's at now, still top 10 sales in Steam nearly a year on) but no AAA develoer hasn't thought to implement the combat system in an MMO.
One day, hopefully.
there are hotkeys to swap spells/weapons in skyrim. obviously pausing wouldnt work, but much like gw2 has a waepon swap button, swapping isn't out of the question.
i'd like 3rd person mouse look, left/right hands tied to the mouse buttons.
i think those that say "if it doesnt have Elder Scrolls Combat it will fail", are huge ES fans. they think Zenimax is fucking their game up. they are probably right. they just don't want to see too much of their game changed.
Elder Scrolls isnt fun becuase of the combat.
And that's how i find it as too. TES (in my own opinion) is more about just the exploration. And it's wierd how some people say Skyrim combat hasn't been done in an MMO, yet others say it has (Darkfall)....
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
I've heard it's going to be a limited hotbar as well which isn't my favorite thing in the world but it could be worse. Also, ES games have never had a heavy focus on the combat system (minus Skyrim). Look at Morrowind for example, the combat system was horrible but the gameplay and the lore keep me coming back after all this time. Let's hope this game will have so much more to offer we don't even notice the flaws of the combat system.
The Shadowed Mare - A Tavern North of Caldera and an Elder Scrolls Online Fansite and Forums.
You could have that, or maybe favorite skills/spells for each hand and have a toggle switch button to swap through. I'd say maybe five (5) per hand.
ah but there is!
Darkfall
Its pretty much very close to what everyone would expect out of a TES Online model. I have always been shocked at how much Darkfall didnt became a lot more popular than it did. I think the main reason is the FFA part scared off a lot of people.
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Darkfall is a horrible example to throw out for any reference. The game is crap, thats why nobody plays it. And to stay on Topic the Combat I need to see actual gameplay. Sounds interesting and hope it makes the game fun.
its actually a great example.
some people have a hard time understanding the difference between a FEATURE and the ENTIRE GAME.
I assume you are one of those people.
Nobody dislikes darkfall because of the FPS combat mechanics, open world, no instances, housing, skill based, no classes and no forced factions. They dont like it becuase of balance which is usually stored in an XML file that can be changed on the fly so its not a huge deal.
Why are there so many gamers that are completely clueless its stunning!
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I agree that TES is about exploration and for me the feeling of exploring is completely killed when I have to stare at my toons back all day. Its really ruins the entire experience of actually being there. So I am not overly concerned with the combat being as good as Darkfall (which is an amazing combat engine I think even the haters would agree with on that), but I do want to feel like I am there and that is really hard to do in no FPS interface.
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This (and you previous post) is where you are wrong.
I played DF all but 2 hours. I hated the combat. I might have be able to work with it and get better, but I didn't like it.
Skyrim's combat I love, you want to know why? Different settings.
SPRPG--MMORPG... HUGE difference in playstyles for ME. Skyrim I can slow down (literally too, if i zoom my bow it slows down), and take my time with my fights. Especially playing on harder difficulties, there is no one or two weapons/spells/items to use in a fight, i'm bouncing between a solid 10-15 combo's.
I can't key-bind and memorize those, nor have the desire to. I don't like Darkfall for a few reasons, only one i experienced.
-Combat
-OWPvP (gank)
-Community
Everything else I can/could deal with, but those 3 turn me off of it.
I understand YOU love Darkfalls combat, but dont think EVERYONE who has played Skyrim does.
(BTW i play Skyrim in third person unless i'm shooting my bow, or sneaking)
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
you are in a very small minority. In my 3 years of playing I have seen players quit and only one quit because of the combat engine. They simply didnt have the paitence to learn it.
Most people who quit simply got tired of people killing them and were put off by how long it took to skill gain. I would venture to say those two reasons makes up about 95% of the people who quit. The rest of the people who never played didnt play because it was FFA PVP and that made up about...around ...100% of the people who didnt play.
added: I also read the forum pages often and it was very rare for people to complain about the combat, in fact on the forums I dont ever recall someone saying that. They complained about skill gain, unfairness, and developers not giving them updates, never combat.
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I really don't want FPS combat mechanics in my MMORPG games. If I wanted FPS combat I would play a FPS. You really don't seem to get that. I understand your a Darkfall Fanboy and think its the greatest game ever, but I don't think the game is worth anything. You can't change my mind or the fact that the game is crap and nobody plays it.
Hotbar with tab targeting was a non-starter for me. No matter how they spin it beyond that point, it's still just EverQuest 1 combat *record scratch* with a twist.
TERA was able to modify typical targeting to make it feel more action based. Rather then targeting and then keeping a target, you had to maintain a target by either ensuring your swings were clipping them or your reticle for ranged attacks was on them. there wasn't any deep physics involved, just as long you were making a decent effort to be targeting them when you hit the attack button, you would hit them. It would still have some 'heat seeking' once the attack goes off and you had them in your sights for ranged attacks, so was a kind of compromise between all attacks being homing missiles/lock on targeting and FPS controls with projectile physics.
Also I am not enthusiastic about their 'style' system. I've seen it done in other games and even MMO's. They would basically just give you better rating if you used a wide variety of attacks, forcing you to play less effeciently in favor of using every attack you have in a near even split to get a better rating. Not fun.