I have to admit, I'm a bit slighted by the way they work. I think they should only have P2W items in it leaving all the beautiful fluff cosmetic items in the game for free! I also want a much bigger closet in games.
I have honestly never heard this argument before. Please elaborate how Pay2Win is more worthy of your gaming dollars than a monthly subscription.
It does not. That is why I play P2W games for free. There is always the choice of not buying anything.
Saw a thread in the GW2 forums discussing whether or not it is an industry changer.
Got me to thinking, if GW2 releases to huge success and acclaim, and they really do deliver and sustain a full featured MMORPG using the B2P model, how willing will you be to pay a subscription fee in the future.
Or will you be more inclined to expect/demand the B2P model? Perhaps you'll be willing to still pay a sub if they provide something beyond what GW2 does, if so, what might that be?
Never again, tired of the really slow updates (Rift is the acception of course) the methods like dailies they use to cause you to be online as much as you possibly humanly can to do anything meaningful in the game, tired of it being all about raid/dungeons only where it turns the game into a lobby system standing around waiting on people to form groups just to do something fun, tired of none of the money monthly being used for anything meaningful but to line the pockets of the execs and the lead dev that tells everyone how omgwtfbbq their own game is every month as post launch advertising despite the contrary evidence.
Never again, tired of the really slow updates (Rift is the acception of course) the methods like dailies they use to cause you to be online as much as you possibly humanly can to do anything meaningful in the game, tired of it being all about raid/dungeons only where it turns the game into a lobby system standing around waiting on people to form groups just to do something fun, tired of none of the money monthly being used for anything meaningful but to line the pockets of the execs and the lead dev that tells everyone how omgwtfbbq their own game is every month as post launch advertising despite the contrary evidence.
B2P is the way to go peeps.
hmm .. what does B2P has to do with dailies and raid/dungeons? They are in F2P games too.
F2P games have been completely free and been successfull, so why would someone pay for a box and still have to deal with a cash shop dependant game?
I'd much rather pay $15 a month a have it all instead of constantly get my cc out.
F2P have been completely free and been successful? Right! Those get survive because they are completely free and noone ever buys anything from the cash shop. How many have you managed to play to cap with nobody paying for anything? Ever had to deal with P2W cash shops? I guess you don't know F2P games very well.
You pay for the box to have a real, non-P2W, mostly cosmetic, cash shop. The major content updates will be in the form of expansions, that you have to pay for. So you get what you pay for and you don't need to keep on paying to keep on playing.
Paying a sub doesn't mean there won't be a cash shop. Enough examples of that around. Your arguments make no sense at all.
Wow dude get a grip on yourself.
Putting the one word "completely" in there was huge f-in mistake when people nitpick every word. By saying completely i meant NO BOX SALE. I thought most people would understand that but .......
And i have played a few FREE to play games to cap that are still around and i never paid a penny. The FREE games were FREE and they're still around today. They made money from other people but they didn't force me to buy a box.. I didnt buy a box and then run to the cash shop.
Your comments of the fact about how B2P works are nothing but your hopes and speculation. Tell me what mmo you played that you bought the box and had no monthly fee that your getting all of these facts from.. And dont say GW1 because everybody knows that WASN'T AN MMO. You say buy expansions then say you dont have to pay to keep playing......you dont have to pay to keep playing any F2P game either. B2P you have to BUY and still have to deal with their cash shop which is NOT all cosmetic. It is not all cosmetic. There are items there that are not cosmetic.....
Even as a frequent proponent of the F2P model, I voted Very Likely.
As long as the price is reasonable, I'm going to give my money to the best videogame entertainment I can find (including giving quite a bit to the Defense Grid 2 kickstarter since the first one rocked.)
So even though I point out that B2P is more weighted towards hype and F2P is weighted toward delivering a fun product, I'm fine paying for either (even though I'd prefer to see the industry keep moving towards more F2P products, since they're better for everyone involved.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Strange. I don't live in a basement or flip burgers. I also probably make more money than you do. Just because YOU are willing to pay $15 USD a month for games that I consider to be mediocre as far as mmorpgs are concerned does not make you better than me or anyone else.
"probably" make more money than me. If you do, good for you im happy for you. If you do and your such a big penny pincher you should be well retired by now then living the golden life.
Again 15$ is nothing for a month of entertainment. considering the alternative, crying about 15$ a month wheater its a good great or piss poor game is absurd. Its by far the best value of entertainment, if a person likes what mmo's is offering.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Strange. I don't live in a basement or flip burgers. I also probably make more money than you do. Just because YOU are willing to pay $15 USD a month for games that I consider to be mediocre as far as mmorpgs are concerned does not make you better than me or anyone else.
"probably" make more money than me. If you do, good for you im happy for you. If you do and your such a big penny pincher you should be well retired by now then living the golden life.
Again 15$ is nothing for a month of entertainment. considering the alternative, crying about 15$ a month wheater its a good great or piss poor game is absurd. Its by far the best value of entertainment, if a person likes what mmo's is offering.
The thing is, why pay $15 when you can pay $0 and get the same thing? That's what it comes down to. If 2 games are offering almost the exact same thing, but one is B2P while the other is P2P, why would anyone choose to play the P2P game? Hence the P2P game would need to offer extra value than the B2P game does not have in order to be worth it.
It's like paying $4 vs $20 for the same burger. That $20 burger is totally not worth buying unless it's using something like Kobe beef.
Strange. I don't live in a basement or flip burgers. I also probably make more money than you do. Just because YOU are willing to pay $15 USD a month for games that I consider to be mediocre as far as mmorpgs are concerned does not make you better than me or anyone else.
"probably" make more money than me. If you do, good for you im happy for you. If you do and your such a big penny pincher you should be well retired by now then living the golden life.
Again 15$ is nothing for a month of entertainment. considering the alternative, crying about 15$ a month wheater its a good great or piss poor game is absurd. Its by far the best value of entertainment, if a person likes what mmo's is offering.
Agreed $15 per month is very little.
On the other hand, In my case at least, its not about that $.50 per day, its about the fact that if another game provides me with the ability to play each month at no charge beyond the box price...what makes the MMO worth (from the consumer perspective) paying more than a box price ? For the most part any significant content upgrade involves a charge above and beyond our sub fee, so the sub fee is essentially a charge for playing the same content we got with our box price.
Would you support having a subscription fee added to games such as Mass Effect in order to play them beyond the first 30 days after purchasing the box ?
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
Heh , I'll let the finished product speak for itself , B2P meaning you need to pay the 50-60 bucks to play the game in the first place and alot of MMO's have tried this and failed. Of course Guild Wars is in a different league then most of the previous B2P mmo's , but still , there has been ALOT of disappointments , actually , every release this year has been a major let down. So GW2 should do pretty well on release since everything from January up to now is a major failure.
id pay $15 dollars a month for a game without a cash shop. id probably pay $30 a month for a game without a cash shop, if it was a game I though I would play for more than a month. the money isnt a deciding factor for me, but shopping for virtual items with real world money .. is not how I want to interact with an MMO.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
This is what I expect from both models. If it is B2P, I would expect that I would be paying for any further content/expansions/addons.
If the game has a monthly sub, I would expect further content to be free, as I am paying monthy for the upkeep and development of the game.
If a game that is running a monthly sub and then asks me on top of that to fork out $50 *cough* wow *cough* then that is a breaking point for me. 12 months x $15 for the average mmo sub, $180 bucks, + say $20 to $50 for the box. So $200 on the low side, $230 on the high.
To me that $200 - $230 per year is well worth it, IF content is free, no added cash shops, and straight up fun.
B2P is ideal, but not many MMO's have taken that model and done it right. However, tons of games are B2P, no strings, then any expansion is paid for which is honest and decent, unless you are Activision.
Originally posted by Arskaaa "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
Strange. I don't live in a basement or flip burgers. I also probably make more money than you do. Just because YOU are willing to pay $15 USD a month for games that I consider to be mediocre as far as mmorpgs are concerned does not make you better than me or anyone else.
"probably" make more money than me. If you do, good for you im happy for you. If you do and your such a big penny pincher you should be well retired by now then living the golden life.
Again 15$ is nothing for a month of entertainment. considering the alternative, crying about 15$ a month wheater its a good great or piss poor game is absurd. Its by far the best value of entertainment, if a person likes what mmo's is offering.
Agreed $15 per month is very little.
On the other hand, In my case at least, its not about that $.50 per day, its about the fact that if another game provides me with the ability to play each month at no charge beyond the box price...what makes the MMO worth (from the consumer perspective) paying more than a box price ? For the most part any significant content upgrade involves a charge above and beyond our sub fee, so the sub fee is essentially a charge for playing the same content we got with our box price.
Would you support having a subscription fee added to games such as Mass Effect in order to play them beyond the first 30 days after purchasing the box ?
This is a very hard discussion on either side...
While I personally don't care either way, it's hard to put a finger on what I prefer...
People have to make money. Period. And that's what I see that monthly sub creating. Now I also find it kind of a sack of poo to charge me for further content... isn't that what my Sub is for? Maybe like a ten doller expansion, but anything over that irritates me. But again, it's cheaper than anything else I do.
Now B2P and F2P quirks me too.... While you can play it completely free after the initial box, a lot of games hinder you to make you more eager to spend cash on them. SOE comes to mind with this Vanguard crap. You can only have so much money, so much gear, and only basic gear.... Unless you sub...
Now GW2 isn't exactly like this, so i'm fine with it's version of the cash shop, but other companies (thinking blizzard here) are much more greedy, and will no doubtedly try to exploit it. That's where I like a sub more...
So for me, I can't really say. It's a back-and-forth debate that in some instances one is the better option, in others it is not.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
I voted that it's not likely, but contingent on what the game brings to the table. They're going to have to try a hell of a lot harder now, though. The F2P craze was already enough to put a major dent in the P2P mentality, B2P is only going to do the same. Games are going to have to be mind-blowing if they want me to pay a sub from here on in.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Who are these people who say they would gladly pay more than $15 month for a whorthwhile game? Are you saying this because you think paying more will get you a better game? or is this some sort of way to get people to start thinking it's ok to pay more than they already are?
Strange. I don't live in a basement or flip burgers. I also probably make more money than you do. Just because YOU are willing to pay $15 USD a month for games that I consider to be mediocre as far as mmorpgs are concerned does not make you better than me or anyone else.
"probably" make more money than me. If you do, good for you im happy for you. If you do and your such a big penny pincher you should be well retired by now then living the golden life.
Again 15$ is nothing for a month of entertainment. considering the alternative, crying about 15$ a month wheater its a good great or piss poor game is absurd. Its by far the best value of entertainment, if a person likes what mmo's is offering.
The thing is, why pay $15 when you can pay $0 and get the same thing? That's what it comes down to. If 2 games are offering almost the exact same thing, but one is B2P while the other is P2P, why would anyone choose to play the P2P game? Hence the P2P game would need to offer extra value than the B2P game does not have in order to be worth it.
It's like paying $4 vs $20 for the same burger. That $20 burger is totally not worth buying unless it's using something like Kobe beef.
Same thing could be said for F2P over B2p. Why buy a box for just another cash shop depended game.
I'm usually for the sub, as long as developers show me my sub fee is going into high quality maintenance with regular updates.
The B2P, I don't know... It's almost like a sub to me. What usually keeps me from buying a game is the $60 dollar box price, not the $15 monthly fee. Most of us don't stick with a game for months these days, anyway; depressingly, in most of my last few MMOs, I only played for the inital month... So it was practically B2P to me. :P
So, I'll expect a B2P game to be as good as a sub game. Because ultimately, I'll just play the better game, regardless of the pricing (as long as it's not pay to win).
If the B2P is the better game, I'll play that one. If the sub game is better, I'll play that.
Strange. I don't live in a basement or flip burgers. I also probably make more money than you do. Just because YOU are willing to pay $15 USD a month for games that I consider to be mediocre as far as mmorpgs are concerned does not make you better than me or anyone else.
"probably" make more money than me. If you do, good for you im happy for you. If you do and your such a big penny pincher you should be well retired by now then living the golden life.
Again 15$ is nothing for a month of entertainment. considering the alternative, crying about 15$ a month wheater its a good great or piss poor game is absurd. Its by far the best value of entertainment, if a person likes what mmo's is offering.
The thing is, why pay $15 when you can pay $0 and get the same thing? That's what it comes down to. If 2 games are offering almost the exact same thing, but one is B2P while the other is P2P, why would anyone choose to play the P2P game? Hence the P2P game would need to offer extra value than the B2P game does not have in order to be worth it.
It's like paying $4 vs $20 for the same burger. That $20 burger is totally not worth buying unless it's using something like Kobe beef.
Same thing could be said for F2P over B2p. Why buy a box for just another cash shop depended game.
That is why i don't buy boxes. There are plenty of fun F2P games. WOW will be my last box/sub MMO.
Comments
Probably not. I'll be happy to spend the money I would normally be putting into a subscription into something else, like a MC server for my friends.
Never again, tired of the really slow updates (Rift is the acception of course) the methods like dailies they use to cause you to be online as much as you possibly humanly can to do anything meaningful in the game, tired of it being all about raid/dungeons only where it turns the game into a lobby system standing around waiting on people to form groups just to do something fun, tired of none of the money monthly being used for anything meaningful but to line the pockets of the execs and the lead dev that tells everyone how omgwtfbbq their own game is every month as post launch advertising despite the contrary evidence.
B2P is the way to go peeps.
hmm .. what does B2P has to do with dailies and raid/dungeons? They are in F2P games too.
Not very likely unless they can bring something new to the table...
However i will not buy just any B2P game or play just any F2P either unless it brings something new and or better...
For each their own, the more options each gamer has available to choose from the better..
Playing GW2..
Wow dude get a grip on yourself.
Putting the one word "completely" in there was huge f-in mistake when people nitpick every word. By saying completely i meant NO BOX SALE. I thought most people would understand that but .......
And i have played a few FREE to play games to cap that are still around and i never paid a penny. The FREE games were FREE and they're still around today. They made money from other people but they didn't force me to buy a box.. I didnt buy a box and then run to the cash shop.
Your comments of the fact about how B2P works are nothing but your hopes and speculation. Tell me what mmo you played that you bought the box and had no monthly fee that your getting all of these facts from.. And dont say GW1 because everybody knows that WASN'T AN MMO. You say buy expansions then say you dont have to pay to keep playing......you dont have to pay to keep playing any F2P game either. B2P you have to BUY and still have to deal with their cash shop which is NOT all cosmetic. It is not all cosmetic. There are items there that are not cosmetic.....
Even as a frequent proponent of the F2P model, I voted Very Likely.
As long as the price is reasonable, I'm going to give my money to the best videogame entertainment I can find (including giving quite a bit to the Defense Grid 2 kickstarter since the first one rocked.)
So even though I point out that B2P is more weighted towards hype and F2P is weighted toward delivering a fun product, I'm fine paying for either (even though I'd prefer to see the industry keep moving towards more F2P products, since they're better for everyone involved.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Sure I would. SO long as the sub fee includes 100% of the game, except for expansions.
Poll is missing an option. "I mostly F2P"
"probably" make more money than me. If you do, good for you im happy for you. If you do and your such a big penny pincher you should be well retired by now then living the golden life.
Again 15$ is nothing for a month of entertainment. considering the alternative, crying about 15$ a month wheater its a good great or piss poor game is absurd. Its by far the best value of entertainment, if a person likes what mmo's is offering.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
The thing is, why pay $15 when you can pay $0 and get the same thing? That's what it comes down to. If 2 games are offering almost the exact same thing, but one is B2P while the other is P2P, why would anyone choose to play the P2P game? Hence the P2P game would need to offer extra value than the B2P game does not have in order to be worth it.
It's like paying $4 vs $20 for the same burger. That $20 burger is totally not worth buying unless it's using something like Kobe beef.
Agreed $15 per month is very little.
On the other hand, In my case at least, its not about that $.50 per day, its about the fact that if another game provides me with the ability to play each month at no charge beyond the box price...what makes the MMO worth (from the consumer perspective) paying more than a box price ? For the most part any significant content upgrade involves a charge above and beyond our sub fee, so the sub fee is essentially a charge for playing the same content we got with our box price.
Would you support having a subscription fee added to games such as Mass Effect in order to play them beyond the first 30 days after purchasing the box ?
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
Heh , I'll let the finished product speak for itself , B2P meaning you need to pay the 50-60 bucks to play the game in the first place and alot of MMO's have tried this and failed. Of course Guild Wars is in a different league then most of the previous B2P mmo's , but still , there has been ALOT of disappointments , actually , every release this year has been a major let down. So GW2 should do pretty well on release since everything from January up to now is a major failure.
id pay $15 dollars a month for a game without a cash shop.
id probably pay $30 a month for a game without a cash shop, if it was a game I though I would play for more than a month.
the money isnt a deciding factor for me, but shopping for virtual items with real world money .. is not how I want to interact with an MMO.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
This is what I expect from both models. If it is B2P, I would expect that I would be paying for any further content/expansions/addons.
If the game has a monthly sub, I would expect further content to be free, as I am paying monthy for the upkeep and development of the game.
If a game that is running a monthly sub and then asks me on top of that to fork out $50 *cough* wow *cough* then that is a breaking point for me. 12 months x $15 for the average mmo sub, $180 bucks, + say $20 to $50 for the box. So $200 on the low side, $230 on the high.
To me that $200 - $230 per year is well worth it, IF content is free, no added cash shops, and straight up fun.
B2P is ideal, but not many MMO's have taken that model and done it right. However, tons of games are B2P, no strings, then any expansion is paid for which is honest and decent, unless you are Activision.
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
B2P forever BABY!!!!!! if i game proves to be successful with box sales and no subs, im not paying for game time.
That doesnt mean i wont buy subscription games. I always do..... but after the first free month is up i move on to something else.
B2P forever BABY!!!
This is a very hard discussion on either side...
While I personally don't care either way, it's hard to put a finger on what I prefer...
People have to make money. Period. And that's what I see that monthly sub creating. Now I also find it kind of a sack of poo to charge me for further content... isn't that what my Sub is for? Maybe like a ten doller expansion, but anything over that irritates me. But again, it's cheaper than anything else I do.
Now B2P and F2P quirks me too.... While you can play it completely free after the initial box, a lot of games hinder you to make you more eager to spend cash on them. SOE comes to mind with this Vanguard crap. You can only have so much money, so much gear, and only basic gear.... Unless you sub...
Now GW2 isn't exactly like this, so i'm fine with it's version of the cash shop, but other companies (thinking blizzard here) are much more greedy, and will no doubtedly try to exploit it. That's where I like a sub more...
So for me, I can't really say. It's a back-and-forth debate that in some instances one is the better option, in others it is not.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
I voted that it's not likely, but contingent on what the game brings to the table. They're going to have to try a hell of a lot harder now, though. The F2P craze was already enough to put a major dent in the P2P mentality, B2P is only going to do the same. Games are going to have to be mind-blowing if they want me to pay a sub from here on in.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Who are these people who say they would gladly pay more than $15 month for a whorthwhile game? Are you saying this because you think paying more will get you a better game? or is this some sort of way to get people to start thinking it's ok to pay more than they already are?
Probably people like me.
I don't care whether I pay €10, €15 or €25 a month for my MMORPG. I want a quality MMORPG experience and I would pay to get this quality experience.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
yes , i ll pay 15$ monthly for my favorite game , i dont care is mmo game F2P, B2P... i care about in game world ,setting...etc
curently i playing TSW , i ll play and pay sub for this game long time for sure...next my interesting mmo game is World of Darkness
I dont care for GW2,B2P game
Same thing could be said for F2P over B2p. Why buy a box for just another cash shop depended game.
I'm usually for the sub, as long as developers show me my sub fee is going into high quality maintenance with regular updates.
The B2P, I don't know... It's almost like a sub to me. What usually keeps me from buying a game is the $60 dollar box price, not the $15 monthly fee. Most of us don't stick with a game for months these days, anyway; depressingly, in most of my last few MMOs, I only played for the inital month... So it was practically B2P to me. :P
So, I'll expect a B2P game to be as good as a sub game. Because ultimately, I'll just play the better game, regardless of the pricing (as long as it's not pay to win).
If the B2P is the better game, I'll play that one. If the sub game is better, I'll play that.
That is why i don't buy boxes. There are plenty of fun F2P games. WOW will be my last box/sub MMO.