I'm a pretty big GW2 fan and I have to say...this OP is just a bit much.
I mean, the OP is essentially saying that the end-game of a game which is NOT released, and the end-game has NEVER been experienced is SO good, that is invalidates the end-game of all other MMORPGs.
I have faith that ANet will come out with an awesome game, and I think they will deliver on their promises for end-game. That said, saying that the end-game will be so good as to expose all other end-games as being terrible is ridiculous at this point .
Not Sure about that. I think all of us who spend a great deal of time trying to find faults with GW2 need to play it before we can judge.I'm not bashing this game anymore becuase the evidence provided is starting to pan out and seems pretty solid for me. I easlily can seperate hype and see this game is very interesting compared to what we have played before. i'm starting to convert.
Also I want to thank a cool guy for getting me a beta key for the last BWE3
I'm a pretty big GW2 fan and I have to say...this OP is just a bit much.
I mean, the OP is essentially saying that the end-game of a game which is NOT released, and the end-game has NEVER been experienced is SO good, that is invalidates the end-game of all other MMORPGs.
I have faith that ANet will come out with an awesome game, and I think they will deliver on their promises for end-game. That said, saying that the end-game will be so good as to expose all other end-games as being terrible is ridiculous at this point .
I agree that it is a bit early to conclude and the OP is a bit over the top the way it's written.
But thinking about that subject what I read into the OP is it might actually expose the lack in other games' end-game content to a group of players due to a change in mindset. If in the only games you've played the end game has allways been the raiding and repeatables treadmill it can be hard to grasp that a game without it actually still can have an end game that is at least, if not more fun than what they're used to. So in that sense the OP might be right but this obviously won't be the case for everybody nor something accepted as a fact by the majority of the mmo community.
You know what they have sieges so that makes me happy. I am a big fan of sieges. I think a ll mmos should have some sort of sieging going on. The last game I played that had any was Aion. TOR and TERA both could have used them it might have held some more players interests. I will do all the PVE but I prefer PVP so really I am set with WvsW!
I'm a pretty big GW2 fan and I have to say...this OP is just a bit much.
I mean, the OP is essentially saying that the end-game of a game which is NOT released, and the end-game has NEVER been experienced is SO good, that is invalidates the end-game of all other MMORPGs.
I have faith that ANet will come out with an awesome game, and I think they will deliver on their promises for end-game. That said, saying that the end-game will be so good as to expose all other end-games as being terrible is ridiculous at this point .
Please correct me if i'm wrong (not being sarcastic), but, basically, the endgame is repeating the same dynamic events in orr over an dover along with 3 final dungeons with higher difficulties. Grinding for gear, but cosmetic instead, however, and this is where i'd like some clarification, you only get it by pve, not carfting.
I mean, i hate stat grinding because of inbalance, so cool, but all i see is "instead of grinding a raddi for uber stat gear, you grind DE and dungeons for cosmetic gear".
GW2's journey to endgame is great, but i don't understand this part.
Please correct me if i'm wrong (not being sarcastic), but, basically, the endgame is repeating the same dynamic events in orr over an dover along with 3 final dungeons with higher difficulties. Grinding for gear, but cosmetic instead, however, and this is where i'd like some clarification, you only get it by pve, not carfting.
I mean, i hate stat grinding because of inbalance, so cool, but all i see is "instead of grinding a raddi for uber stat gear, you grind DE and dungeons for cosmetic gear".
GW2's journey to endgame is great, but i don't understand this part.
Umm... you just asked, "why is this endgame?" and then named an endgame element common in other games. Specifically, dungeons.
Massive dynamic event chains in Orr.
8 dungeons with 3 paths. (don't know where you got 3 dungeons from)
WvW
sPvP
Achievements
You can get fully geared through crafting as well
What kind of endgame is it missing? Raids? Just substitute Orr for a raid if it helps you think about it. What does the game need in it's "endgame" for you to call it "endgame?"
Please correct me if i'm wrong (not being sarcastic), but, basically, the endgame is repeating the same dynamic events in orr over an dover along with 3 final dungeons with higher difficulties. Grinding for gear, but cosmetic instead, however, and this is where i'd like some clarification, you only get it by pve, not carfting.
I mean, i hate stat grinding because of inbalance, so cool, but all i see is "instead of grinding a raddi for uber stat gear, you grind DE and dungeons for cosmetic gear".
GW2's journey to endgame is great, but i don't understand this part.
It's only a grind if you make it one. You'll continue gaining exp at level cap for the things you enjoy doing (end game is any part of the game). So instead of having just one raid cluster and some repeatables, you can do whatever you enjoy doing and still get something back for it. If you only play for rewards and turn a game into a grind for you because of that then I pity you.
The difference with other games is that in GW2 it's optional to get the best end game rewards for doing whatever things you consider fun, in other games it's required to be able to remain effective and/or competetive and be able to play the high end content of the next content patch that's why it's a grind there. Even if you don't enjoy doing the stuffs to get those rewards in those games, you have to in order to be able to enjoy the next content.
I get so sick of the "end game" thing. What is end game in most MMOs? Run the same raid content over and over getting one drop at a time until you can progress a little then run the next raid content over and over until you get all the drops that let you move forward. Then you wait 6 months for new raid content so you can do it again. Why in the hell is THAT motivating?
There are 80 levels to this game, there are multiple zones, and thanks to down-levelling content does not become trivialized just because you levelled somewhere else. There are instances in which the easy mode trash mob fights rival some other games raid boss fights. And you only pay once. You aren't investing every month for years at a time. I quit WoW not because it wasn't a good game, I quit because I was sick to death of the end game treadmill. I still enjoyed raiding when it went well, but I was tired of whiners and drama queens, tired of trying to make a time that worked for 25 people, tired of having to play a parent when 2 out of 25 people decide to act like spoiled children and ruin the night for everyone else. If that is end game, I'll stick to the beginning and middle games.
To answer the OPs question, I feel GW2 has more to offer between 1-80 than most games out there, I think the down-levelling mechanic allows for all kinds of new content that is relevant to everyone, not just the 80's and not just the new toons, and that's what will help keep GW2 fresh.
I'm a pretty big GW2 fan and I have to say...this OP is just a bit much.
I mean, the OP is essentially saying that the end-game of a game which is NOT released, and the end-game has NEVER been experienced is SO good, that is invalidates the end-game of all other MMORPGs.
I have faith that ANet will come out with an awesome game, and I think they will deliver on their promises for end-game. That said, saying that the end-game will be so good as to expose all other end-games as being terrible is ridiculous at this point .
I think you are misreading it.
He isn't saying that it invalidates the end-game of all other MMOs or that it will show that all other MMOs are terrible, the way I read it he is saying that all other MMOs don't have end-game. They have just convinced people to keep running the last dungeon over and over and over by using a clever reward model and told them that that is "end-game".
Pull out a psych text book and look at some of the animal experiments in behavioural psych. When training animals, they would start by rewarding them with a treat every time that they do a specific action, then they would make it inconsistent, then they would reduce the frequency, etc... And eventually the animal would reach the point where he would keep doing the action indefinitely even with no chance of reward... And that is what they are doing to us. They are training people to be addicted...
GW2 is offering a plethora of things to do once you reach max level, including continuing to level. The way I read the OP, GW2 isn't "SO good that it invalidates the end-game of all other MMORPGs", all of the other MMORPGs don't actually have end-game... And I agree with that.
What i don't get is, why is this endgame?Please correct me if i'm wrong (not being sarcastic), but, basically, the endgame is repeating the same dynamic events in orr over an dover along with 3 final dungeons with higher difficulties. Grinding for gear, but cosmetic instead, however, and this is where i'd like some clarification, you only get it by pve, not carfting.I mean, i hate stat grinding because of inbalance, so cool, but all i see is "instead of grinding a raddi for uber stat gear, you grind DE and dungeons for cosmetic gear".GW2's journey to endgame is great, but i don't understand this part.
How is it hard to understand? Are you confused because the gameplay doesnt change drastically at max level like in traditional themeparks?
| Endgame = Max Level Content |
Traditional Themepark Endgame = Raiding + Instanced PvP + Top Tier Crafting |
Guild Wars 2 Endgame = Explorable Mode Dungeons + Max Level DE's + Top Tier Crafting + Instanced PvP + Large Scale PvP + All of the lower level content. |
Sandbox Endgame = Whatever you want/same thing as the leveling game
P.S. How are you concluding that you only get Legendary Items through PvE? The video on endgame explicitly states that you can acquire through all of the game's gameplay including crafting and PvP.
I'm a pretty big GW2 fan and I have to say...this OP is just a bit much.
I mean, the OP is essentially saying that the end-game of a game which is NOT released, and the end-game has NEVER been experienced is SO good, that is invalidates the end-game of all other MMORPGs.
I have faith that ANet will come out with an awesome game, and I think they will deliver on their promises for end-game. That said, saying that the end-game will be so good as to expose all other end-games as being terrible is ridiculous at this point .
I think you are misreading it.
He isn't saying that it invalidates the end-game of all other MMOs or that it will show that all other MMOs are terrible, the way I read it he is saying that all other MMOs don't have end-game. They have just convinced people to keep running the last dungeon over and over and over by using a clever reward model and told them that that is "end-game".
Pull out a psych text book and look at some of the animal experiments in behavioural psych. When training animals, they would start by rewarding them with a treat every time that they do a specific action, then they would make it inconsistent, then they would reduce the frequency, etc... And eventually the animal would reach the point where he would keep doing the action indefinitely even with no chance of reward... And that is what they are doing to us. They are training people to be addicted...
GW2 is offering a plethora of things to do once you reach max level, including continuing to level. The way I read the OP, GW2 isn't "SO good that it invalidates the end-game of all other MMORPGs", all of the other MMORPGs don't actually have end-game... And I agree with that.
Dang, thanks for expressing that far more eloquently than I did. You're pretty much spot on.
Comments
PvP is were endgame is at
I'm a pretty big GW2 fan and I have to say...this OP is just a bit much.
I mean, the OP is essentially saying that the end-game of a game which is NOT released, and the end-game has NEVER been experienced is SO good, that is invalidates the end-game of all other MMORPGs.
I have faith that ANet will come out with an awesome game, and I think they will deliver on their promises for end-game. That said, saying that the end-game will be so good as to expose all other end-games as being terrible is ridiculous at this point
.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Not Sure about that. I think all of us who spend a great deal of time trying to find faults with GW2 need to play it before we can judge.I'm not bashing this game anymore becuase the evidence provided is starting to pan out and seems pretty solid for me. I easlily can seperate hype and see this game is very interesting compared to what we have played before. i'm starting to convert.
Also I want to thank a cool guy for getting me a beta key for the last BWE3
i like group based dungeons, i hate raids, i love pvp. guild wars 2 is perfect for me
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Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
I agree that it is a bit early to conclude and the OP is a bit over the top the way it's written.
But thinking about that subject what I read into the OP is it might actually expose the lack in other games' end-game content to a group of players due to a change in mindset. If in the only games you've played the end game has allways been the raiding and repeatables treadmill it can be hard to grasp that a game without it actually still can have an end game that is at least, if not more fun than what they're used to. So in that sense the OP might be right but this obviously won't be the case for everybody nor something accepted as a fact by the majority of the mmo community.
That is difficult to say at this point, we don't know what it entails exactly.
Sure it sounds interesting, but everything depends on how quickly it gets old.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
You know what they have sieges so that makes me happy. I am a big fan of sieges. I think a ll mmos should have some sort of sieging going on. The last game I played that had any was Aion. TOR and TERA both could have used them it might have held some more players interests. I will do all the PVE but I prefer PVP so really I am set with WvsW!
Not terrible. Insufficient.
Oderint, dum metuant.
What i don't get is, why is this endgame?
Please correct me if i'm wrong (not being sarcastic), but, basically, the endgame is repeating the same dynamic events in orr over an dover along with 3 final dungeons with higher difficulties. Grinding for gear, but cosmetic instead, however, and this is where i'd like some clarification, you only get it by pve, not carfting.
I mean, i hate stat grinding because of inbalance, so cool, but all i see is "instead of grinding a raddi for uber stat gear, you grind DE and dungeons for cosmetic gear".
GW2's journey to endgame is great, but i don't understand this part.
Umm... you just asked, "why is this endgame?" and then named an endgame element common in other games. Specifically, dungeons.
Massive dynamic event chains in Orr.
8 dungeons with 3 paths. (don't know where you got 3 dungeons from)
WvW
sPvP
Achievements
You can get fully geared through crafting as well
What kind of endgame is it missing? Raids? Just substitute Orr for a raid if it helps you think about it. What does the game need in it's "endgame" for you to call it "endgame?"
It's only a grind if you make it one. You'll continue gaining exp at level cap for the things you enjoy doing (end game is any part of the game). So instead of having just one raid cluster and some repeatables, you can do whatever you enjoy doing and still get something back for it. If you only play for rewards and turn a game into a grind for you because of that then I pity you.
The difference with other games is that in GW2 it's optional to get the best end game rewards for doing whatever things you consider fun, in other games it's required to be able to remain effective and/or competetive and be able to play the high end content of the next content patch that's why it's a grind there. Even if you don't enjoy doing the stuffs to get those rewards in those games, you have to in order to be able to enjoy the next content.
I get so sick of the "end game" thing. What is end game in most MMOs? Run the same raid content over and over getting one drop at a time until you can progress a little then run the next raid content over and over until you get all the drops that let you move forward. Then you wait 6 months for new raid content so you can do it again. Why in the hell is THAT motivating?
There are 80 levels to this game, there are multiple zones, and thanks to down-levelling content does not become trivialized just because you levelled somewhere else. There are instances in which the easy mode trash mob fights rival some other games raid boss fights. And you only pay once. You aren't investing every month for years at a time. I quit WoW not because it wasn't a good game, I quit because I was sick to death of the end game treadmill. I still enjoyed raiding when it went well, but I was tired of whiners and drama queens, tired of trying to make a time that worked for 25 people, tired of having to play a parent when 2 out of 25 people decide to act like spoiled children and ruin the night for everyone else. If that is end game, I'll stick to the beginning and middle games.
To answer the OPs question, I feel GW2 has more to offer between 1-80 than most games out there, I think the down-levelling mechanic allows for all kinds of new content that is relevant to everyone, not just the 80's and not just the new toons, and that's what will help keep GW2 fresh.
I think you are misreading it.
He isn't saying that it invalidates the end-game of all other MMOs or that it will show that all other MMOs are terrible, the way I read it he is saying that all other MMOs don't have end-game. They have just convinced people to keep running the last dungeon over and over and over by using a clever reward model and told them that that is "end-game".
Pull out a psych text book and look at some of the animal experiments in behavioural psych. When training animals, they would start by rewarding them with a treat every time that they do a specific action, then they would make it inconsistent, then they would reduce the frequency, etc... And eventually the animal would reach the point where he would keep doing the action indefinitely even with no chance of reward... And that is what they are doing to us. They are training people to be addicted...
GW2 is offering a plethora of things to do once you reach max level, including continuing to level. The way I read the OP, GW2 isn't "SO good that it invalidates the end-game of all other MMORPGs", all of the other MMORPGs don't actually have end-game... And I agree with that.
How is it hard to understand? Are you confused because the gameplay doesnt change drastically at max level like in traditional themeparks?| Endgame = Max Level Content |
Traditional Themepark Endgame = Raiding + Instanced PvP + Top Tier Crafting |
Guild Wars 2 Endgame = Explorable Mode Dungeons + Max Level DE's + Top Tier Crafting + Instanced PvP + Large Scale PvP + All of the lower level content. |
Sandbox Endgame = Whatever you want/same thing as the leveling game
P.S. How are you concluding that you only get Legendary Items through PvE? The video on endgame explicitly states that you can acquire through all of the game's gameplay including crafting and PvP.
Dang, thanks for expressing that far more eloquently than I did. You're pretty much spot on.
Oderint, dum metuant.