Cash shop bothers some people even if it is cosmetics but if it really does bother the majority, let the money do the speaking. Unfortunately the ones who do complain are most likely the minority since I see a lot of people running around with the mounts and weapon skins.
If it's items that have no clear advantage other than cosmetic then I don't really see an issue. If it becomes that the items in the cash shop give an advantage over the sub alone then I'll join whatever picket line is going on, since I'm a newcomer to Tera.
The way I figure it and know it to be the team that makes items for the cash shop won't be taken from the team that maintains the game, so therefore have no issue. It's up to other ppl what they want to spend their money on. I don't have to buy anything. It's a simple matter of choice.
Well i like to have cosmetic items just as much as the next guy so i do see a problem with it. Has nothing to do with taking people off a team to make this or that and the other. It has to do with giving me the same opportunity to gain items being sold in the cahs shop in game.
Let those that want to [mod edit] get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.
Originally posted by Arletta If it's items that have no clear advantage other than cosmetic then I don't really see an issue. If it becomes that the items in the cash shop give an advantage over the sub alone then I'll join whatever picket line is going on, since I'm a newcomer to Tera.The way I figure it and know it to be the team that makes items for the cash shop won't be taken from the team that maintains the game, so therefore have no issue. It's up to other ppl what they want to spend their money on. I don't have to buy anything. It's a simple matter of choice.
Well i like to have cosmetic items just as much as the next guy so i do see a problem with it. Has nothing to do with taking people off a team to make this or that and the other. It has to do with giving me the same opportunity to gain items being sold in the cahs shop in game.
Let those that want to be lazy shits get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.
I'm going to quote a forum user. You might recognize him:
"The level of entitlement on these forums is staggering."
Let those that want to [mod edit] get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.
Here in the real world individuals that have disposable income are not "lazy shits", quite the opposite.
Equating selling something with greed is like saying that everybody that eats is a glutton.
Seriously? By that analogy, then nothing can be considered greed. You do realize this, right? I'm sure the folks on wallstreet would've loved to get away with that line of reasoning, though.
You want a quality game? You need to hire quality people.
You want quality people? You must pay them well.
You want to pay them well? You must generate revenue.
You want to generate revenue? You must give players the opportunity to spend money.
Here's some fun facts for you. From someone working in the industry:
1- MMOs have proven to be profitable with every business model. Subscription, free-to-play, and buy-to-play. There has been absolutely NO proof of a game that has needed to employ both to be profitable. Not a single game. The closest thing we have to this is Turbine, which gives you the option of either subscribing (for full access to content), or going f2p.
2- When a game double dips with their payment model (and this is double-dipping), the artists don't see a dime for it. Artist's rates don't fluctuate based on business models. They are a constant. All that extra profit goes straight to the top. Whether or not I can afford a sandwich each day depends on whether or not there is a project (a game) needing to be made. Not on how many titles, mini-pets, etc. are sold in the cash shop. All of those things are done by staff, when they have nothing else to do (busywork).
3- The average rate of game devs is actually going down. Not up. This is a fun little issue I've been having to deal w/ personally, and is one of the reasons I find myself taking less and less gigs in the gaming industry. Studios are getting cheaper, and projects are trying to get done for less and less money (for the most part). Many studios are also exploiting students more and more, or outsourcing to try and cut costs.
(ask yourself this: If devs are getting paid less, then why are your games steadily getting more and more expensive?) just something to think about.
The issue is ETHICAL cash shops. Some games in the past failed miserably at this. The reality is that cash shops are here to stay, and this is fine with the majority of gamers as long as they are done ethically.
Of course It is an ethics issue. What do you think greed is? It's a problem of ethics.
Here's what's happening: Nobody will be launching MMO's without cash shops except a smaller indie compnay, which probably won't last anyway since their playerbase will turn on a dime the moment they don't recieve AAA quality.
Answered in the quote.
- If games want to generate revenue, then just offer a cash shop, or stick w/ the subscription model. Again, there is absolutely NO reason to have both. If they can get people to just throw money at them, then good for them. But if you honestly think that you are either paying for an artist's lunch money, or keeping the game afloat by buying mini-pets, you're not. You're filling their coffers.
I'm all for supporting studios you respect, but at least understand the business model before you do. Again, this isn't something they are doing out of necessity. They can generate enough revenue off of either business model (sub OR cash shop). By choosing to have both they are double dipping their profits. There's no way around that unless you are a big fan of dimentia.
If someone else wants to throw their money at the monitor for every shiny new game, then that's their right. However, I don't think it's morally justified on any level, and is not a business practice I would love to see repeatedly. Sadly, not only is it already being repeated, but a shocking number of people on this forums seemed to transition awfully quick from 'all cash shops are evil! and we will not support them!' to 'I love paying a subscription AND having a cash shop! This is the greatest thing ever!'. Plato would be proud.
Let those that want to [mod edit] get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.
Here in the real world individuals that have disposable income are not "lazy shits", quite the opposite.
Truth^
People get rich by being good at making money, investing, and hanging on to the money they already have.
There will always be the paris hilton's of the world, but those aren't the people who getting wealthy, those are the ones who are draining someone else's hard work.
If it's items that have no clear advantage other than cosmetic then I don't really see an issue. If it becomes that the items in the cash shop give an advantage over the sub alone then I'll join whatever picket line is going on, since I'm a newcomer to Tera.
The way I figure it and know it to be the team that makes items for the cash shop won't be taken from the team that maintains the game, so therefore have no issue. It's up to other ppl what they want to spend their money on. I don't have to buy anything. It's a simple matter of choice.
Well i like to have cosmetic items just as much as the next guy so i do see a problem with it. Has nothing to do with taking people off a team to make this or that and the other. It has to do with giving me the same opportunity to gain items being sold in the cahs shop in game.
Let those that want to be lazy shits get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.
I'm going to quote a forum user. You might recognize him: "The level of entitlement on these forums is staggering."
Im flattered that you chose to use a quote on mine to try and belittle the situation. The fact remaines that I spent money to own the game. Then i spent money to play the game.
I shouldent have to yet again spend more money to get items from the game i spent money to get and now spent money to play. Who cares if there fluff items or not. thats not the point.
The point is we should be givin access to ALL of these items IF were paying a monthly sub. So yes if i bought a game i should be entitled to the opportunity to gain these items without the use of a cash shop.
Can we all atleast agree that items sold in a cash shop should also be made available to those in game that do not wish to use said cash shop?
I was thinking the same thing. If they want to keep the CS and not make it look like a money grab just add in game versions. They could be account bound and a good in game currency sink.
Originally posted by kantseemeLet those that want to [mod edit] get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.
Here in the real world individuals that have disposable income are not "lazy shits", quite the opposite.
[mod edit]
I know what you were inferring... so if one works nine hours a day, plus commute, five days a week... get's home in the evening...takes care of RL obligations:
THEN chooses to fire up the game and buy with their earned income cosmetic items instead of grinding them out until the wee hours of the morning before having to go to work again is a "lazy shit"?
Help me understand this, how do you not equate time for money?
It's not being "lazy shits" in game, its a case of not having the extended amount of free time to blow.
So as you would have it hard working individuals would actually be penalized and you would undermine the additional revenue for the development house.
I am okay with cash shops in any game. I am responsible for my money. I can spend it how I want to. If I want to buy items then I can do so.
I do not like to see lottery items, enchanting success items, or gear sets that give stat increases in those cash shops.
Cosmetic items, mounts, even extra experience items do not bother me much provided the game is not a year long grind without the cash shop item, but a 30 day grind with the cash shop item.
Many free to play games revolve around the sale of these items to make up for not having sub fees.
I do not like seeing inventory and bank or warehouse items sold in cash shops if the game has a sub. That seems like an unfair cash grab in my opinion.
Originally posted by kantseemeLet those that want to [mod edit] get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.
Here in the real world individuals that have disposable income are not "lazy shits", quite the opposite.
[mod edit]
I know what you were inferring... so if one works nine hours a day, plus commute, five days a week... get's home in the evening...takes care of RL obligations:
THEN chooses to fire up the game and buy with their earned income cosmetic items instead of grinding them out until the wee hours of the morning before having to go to work again is a "lazy shit"?
Help me understand this, how do you not equate time for money?
It's not being "lazy shits" in game, its a case of not having the extended amount of free time to blow.
So as you would have it hard working individuals would actually be penalized and you would undermine the additional revenue for the development house.
That makes no sence what so ever in the context of whats being talked about here. Time is money yes when your at work. not while your gaming. Unless your getting paid for gaming then good on ya.
And if your working 9 hours a day, plus communte, five days a week plus RL obligations, perhaps MMOs arent what you should be playing. Perhaps a nice Console RPG that can be turned off and restarted w/ you need. Or an CO-OP FPS like Halo or Black Ops. Get in, get some quick game play in then off to bed.
MMOs are time sicks of the worst kind yet you think you should be able to get everything in the allotted time frame your life dictates you have to game. And its one of many reasons of whats is killing the genre. COs are slowly changing MMOs into lobby co-op single player games and slapping an MMO tag on them.
[mod edit] Hard working individuals arent penalized for anything. They just dont have as much time to do things that someone that might not be working as hard as that individual does. Doesent mean that person cant have things. It means it will just take them longer to get. Will it bother you that someone got something ingame before you did?
These cash shops are just another way for them to squeeze even more money out of the consumer and its so common place now a days that we as consumers are starting to think its buissness as usual. Its a shame WE have allowed it to get this out of hand.
It's always funny to see that I'm right 2 years later, when we're not even half a year after TERA's release... Any (MMO) publisher using Digital Rivers is gonna use cash shop / micro payments....
ER...that 2nd link you posted, has the following statements clearly in it (despite the title/contradictory statements)
"TERA will have paid services, which could include character transfer, name change and gender change. We do not have a complete list of these services yet, but we will let you know as we confirm them - those services will likely be available inside the game.
There may be a point in time of TERA's lifecycle that we offer "vanity item" sales, pets, and other items that players have enjoyed in other AAA+ titles."
So these both point to what was actually delivered.
I think they have a different defintion between what they consider to be a "cash shop" and what they term as a microtransaction payment model.
Hence their comment about requiring major changes to support microtransactions, meaning changing the game mechanics to strongly encourage players to purchase from the cash shop via items of power or faster leveling.
So in their mind, having an in game store does not equate to a microtransaction payment model, even though both use a shop to sell additional items to their customers.
i dont understand what the differance is? If im missing something please let me know but imo there is no differeance.
In a micro transaction title the gameplay is actually designed to be punishing to those who don't partake of the advantages the cash shop offers (could be exp boosters, actual items of power, fast mounts whatever).
While it's possible to skip buying these items, most sane players won't be be easily able to without greatly reducing their enjoyment of the game. Think of it sort of as extortion.
Contrast that with a cash shop like Tera offers. It has cosmetic items only, and the entire gameplay is designed without a thought of creating mechanics that would encourage someone to buy something to improve the efficiency of their gameplay.
If you never partake of the Tera cash shop you will not be disadvantaged in any way (in fact, you can even pay for your sub with in game gold) while in a title such as ROM or Alloids you won't have a chance (at least in PVP) if you aren't freely spending in the cash shop, because they are designed inherently to require it.
If you still don't see the difference, then I suggest you try both titles and it should clear things up for you.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's always funny to see that I'm right 2 years later, when we're not even half a year after TERA's release... Any (MMO) publisher using Digital Rivers is gonna use cash shop / micro payments....
ER...that 2nd link you posted, has the following statements clearly in it (despite the title/contradictory statements)
"TERA will have paid services, which could include character transfer, name change and gender change. We do not have a complete list of these services yet, but we will let you know as we confirm them - those services will likely be available inside the game.
There may be a point in time of TERA's lifecycle that we offer "vanity item" sales, pets, and other items that players have enjoyed in other AAA+ titles."
So these both point to what was actually delivered.
I think they have a different defintion between what they consider to be a "cash shop" and what they term as a microtransaction payment model.
Hence their comment about requiring major changes to support microtransactions, meaning changing the game mechanics to strongly encourage players to purchase from the cash shop via items of power or faster leveling.
So in their mind, having an in game store does not equate to a microtransaction payment model, even though both use a shop to sell additional items to their customers.
i dont understand what the differance is? If im missing something please let me know but imo there is no differeance.
In a micro transaction title the gameplay is actually designed to be punishing to those who don't partake of the advantages the cash shop offers (could be exp boosters, actual items of power, fast mounts whatever).
While it's possible to skip buying these items, most sane players won't be be easily able to without greatly reducing their enjoyment of the game. Think of it sort of as extortion.
Contrast that with a cash shop like Tera offers. It has cosmetic items only, and the entire gameplay is designed without a thought of creating mechanics that would encourage someone to buy something to improve the efficiency of their gameplay.
If you never partake of the Tera cash shop you will not be disadvantaged in any way (in fact, you can even pay for your sub with in game gold) while in a title such as ROM or Alloids you won't have a chance (at least in PVP) if you aren't freely spending in the cash shop, because they are designed inherently to require it.
If you still don't see the difference, then I suggest you try both titles and it should clear things up for you.
You had me at extortion lol. I get what you saying and see the differences between the two. At the very least when dealing with a cash shop that ONLY deals with cosmetics... e.g. mounts,weapon skins, hats, pets... they should give those that pay a sub the abillity to aquire these items ingame aswell. Let those that would buy them via the cash shop do so but let those of us that would perfer to look for them in game, do so aswell.
Originally posted by kantseemeLet those that want to [mod edit] get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.
Here in the real world individuals that have disposable income are not "lazy shits", quite the opposite.
[mod edit]
I know what you were inferring... so if one works nine hours a day, plus commute, five days a week... get's home in the evening...takes care of RL obligations:THEN chooses to fire up the game and buy with their earned income cosmetic items instead of grinding them out until the wee hours of the morning before having to go to work again is a "lazy shit"?Help me understand this, how do you not equate time for money?It's not being "lazy shits" in game, its a case of not having the extended amount of free time to blow. So as you would have it hard working individuals would actually be penalized and you would undermine the additional revenue for the development house.
That makes no sence what so ever in the context of whats being talked about here. Time is money yes when your at work. not while your gaming. Unless your getting paid for gaming then good on ya.
And if your working 9 hours a day, plus communte, five days a week plus RL obligations, perhaps MMOs arent what you should be playing. Perhaps a nice Console RPG that can be turned off and restarted w/ you need. Or an CO-OP FPS like Halo or Black Ops. Get in, get some quick game play in then off to bed.
MMOs are time sicks of the worst kind yet you think you should be able to get everything in the allotted time frame your life dictates you have to game. And its one of many reasons of whats is killing the genre. COs are slowly changing MMOs into lobby co-op single player games and slapping an MMO tag on them.
[mod edit] Hard working individuals arent penalized for anything. They just dont have as much time to do things that someone that might not be working as hard as that individual does. Doesent mean that person cant have things. It means it will just take them longer to get. Will it bother you that someone got something ingame before you did?
These cash shops are just another way for them to squeeze even more money out of the consumer and its so common place now a days that we as consumers are starting to think its buissness as usual. Its a shame WE have allowed it to get this out of hand.
WE = Consumers
[mod edit]
It's nothing new, the haves vs. the have nots
It's a business, the point being to make revenue and eventually profit. I would hope that if you were in the same position as a business owner you would take advantage of extra avenues of revenue. [mod edit]
Nobody is twisting your arm to play nor pay and if you feel so strongly about it your energy would be better spent creating the perfect game as you see fit [mod edit].
Looking at many of these posts that are pretty much accepting F2P cash shops being added into a subscription/box purchase game makes me disappointed in the way people just kowtow to the companies when they squeeze them. What is wrong with you people? Not to mention Tera is censored and just poor in quality. Well, if anyone remembers the days before cash shop was out, EVERYTHING was in the game you paid the subscription fee for. It was earned, not pay 10 bucks for cosmetics.
At least you're consistent with your stance on cash shops in general. I might be wrong but I think those who don't care about the cash shops are the ones who don't buy from it or even care for cosmetics.
Comments
Well i like to have cosmetic items just as much as the next guy so i do see a problem with it. Has nothing to do with taking people off a team to make this or that and the other. It has to do with giving me the same opportunity to gain items being sold in the cahs shop in game.
Let those that want to [mod edit] get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say because it's not a human...
Well i like to have cosmetic items just as much as the next guy so i do see a problem with it. Has nothing to do with taking people off a team to make this or that and the other. It has to do with giving me the same opportunity to gain items being sold in the cahs shop in game.
Let those that want to be lazy shits get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.
I'm going to quote a forum user. You might recognize him:"The level of entitlement on these forums is staggering."
Here in the real world individuals that have disposable income are not "lazy shits", quite the opposite.
Truth^
People get rich by being good at making money, investing, and hanging on to the money they already have.
There will always be the paris hilton's of the world, but those aren't the people who getting wealthy, those are the ones who are draining someone else's hard work.
Im flattered that you chose to use a quote on mine to try and belittle the situation. The fact remaines that I spent money to own the game. Then i spent money to play the game.
I shouldent have to yet again spend more money to get items from the game i spent money to get and now spent money to play. Who cares if there fluff items or not. thats not the point.
The point is we should be givin access to ALL of these items IF were paying a monthly sub. So yes if i bought a game i should be entitled to the opportunity to gain these items without the use of a cash shop.
Can we all atleast agree that items sold in a cash shop should also be made available to those in game that do not wish to use said cash shop?
I was thinking the same thing. If they want to keep the CS and not make it look like a money grab just add in game versions. They could be account bound and a good in game currency sink.
I know what you were inferring... so if one works nine hours a day, plus commute, five days a week... get's home in the evening...takes care of RL obligations:
THEN chooses to fire up the game and buy with their earned income cosmetic items instead of grinding them out until the wee hours of the morning before having to go to work again is a "lazy shit"?
Help me understand this, how do you not equate time for money?
It's not being "lazy shits" in game, its a case of not having the extended amount of free time to blow.
So as you would have it hard working individuals would actually be penalized and you would undermine the additional revenue for the development house.
I am okay with cash shops in any game. I am responsible for my money. I can spend it how I want to. If I want to buy items then I can do so.
I do not like to see lottery items, enchanting success items, or gear sets that give stat increases in those cash shops.
Cosmetic items, mounts, even extra experience items do not bother me much provided the game is not a year long grind without the cash shop item, but a 30 day grind with the cash shop item.
Many free to play games revolve around the sale of these items to make up for not having sub fees.
I do not like seeing inventory and bank or warehouse items sold in cash shops if the game has a sub. That seems like an unfair cash grab in my opinion.
That makes no sence what so ever in the context of whats being talked about here. Time is money yes when your at work. not while your gaming. Unless your getting paid for gaming then good on ya.
And if your working 9 hours a day, plus communte, five days a week plus RL obligations, perhaps MMOs arent what you should be playing. Perhaps a nice Console RPG that can be turned off and restarted w/ you need. Or an CO-OP FPS like Halo or Black Ops. Get in, get some quick game play in then off to bed.
MMOs are time sicks of the worst kind yet you think you should be able to get everything in the allotted time frame your life dictates you have to game. And its one of many reasons of whats is killing the genre. COs are slowly changing MMOs into lobby co-op single player games and slapping an MMO tag on them.
[mod edit] Hard working individuals arent penalized for anything. They just dont have as much time to do things that someone that might not be working as hard as that individual does. Doesent mean that person cant have things. It means it will just take them longer to get. Will it bother you that someone got something ingame before you did?
These cash shops are just another way for them to squeeze even more money out of the consumer and its so common place now a days that we as consumers are starting to think its buissness as usual. Its a shame WE have allowed it to get this out of hand.
WE = Consumers
In a micro transaction title the gameplay is actually designed to be punishing to those who don't partake of the advantages the cash shop offers (could be exp boosters, actual items of power, fast mounts whatever).
While it's possible to skip buying these items, most sane players won't be be easily able to without greatly reducing their enjoyment of the game. Think of it sort of as extortion.
Contrast that with a cash shop like Tera offers. It has cosmetic items only, and the entire gameplay is designed without a thought of creating mechanics that would encourage someone to buy something to improve the efficiency of their gameplay.
If you never partake of the Tera cash shop you will not be disadvantaged in any way (in fact, you can even pay for your sub with in game gold) while in a title such as ROM or Alloids you won't have a chance (at least in PVP) if you aren't freely spending in the cash shop, because they are designed inherently to require it.
If you still don't see the difference, then I suggest you try both titles and it should clear things up for you.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You had me at extortion lol. I get what you saying and see the differences between the two. At the very least when dealing with a cash shop that ONLY deals with cosmetics... e.g. mounts,weapon skins, hats, pets... they should give those that pay a sub the abillity to aquire these items ingame aswell. Let those that would buy them via the cash shop do so but let those of us that would perfer to look for them in game, do so aswell.
[mod edit]
It's nothing new, the haves vs. the have nots
It's a business, the point being to make revenue and eventually profit. I would hope that if you were in the same position as a business owner you would take advantage of extra avenues of revenue. [mod edit]
Nobody is twisting your arm to play nor pay and if you feel so strongly about it your energy would be better spent creating the perfect game as you see fit [mod edit].
Looking at many of these posts that are pretty much accepting F2P cash shops being added into a subscription/box purchase game makes me disappointed in the way people just kowtow to the companies when they squeeze them. What is wrong with you people? Not to mention Tera is censored and just poor in quality. Well, if anyone remembers the days before cash shop was out, EVERYTHING was in the game you paid the subscription fee for. It was earned, not pay 10 bucks for cosmetics.
At least you're consistent with your stance on cash shops in general. I might be wrong but I think those who don't care about the cash shops are the ones who don't buy from it or even care for cosmetics.