Anyone who so much as worked as a janitor for this game should be canned.And then barred from ever working on a video game again for life.
Any then people wonder why developers don't take more chances an innovate more.
"Hey Bob, I have a great fresh new idea we can do in our next MMO!!"
"Sorry Steve, I'm not going to be responsible for ruining the entire team's lives if the players don't like it. I'm sticking with what we know they like...Wow type stuff"
From what I understand, that is exactly why SWTOR is in so much trouble. They stuck with the Wow type stuff and didn't listen to their potential fanbase.
Exactly.
And guess who got laid off....Steve!
That's the crappiest part about the whole thing. I personally don't feel too bad when top brass gets canned for their own mistakes. Typically with the amount of money they make in large companies (such as EA or even Bioware), they should easily be able to ride out being canned. "Steve" usually can't but "Steve" is usually the one who suffers because "Bob" doesn't do his homework....or he thinks he's too damn smart to do his homework.
And execs of companies wonder why "the little guy" can hate them so much.
I'm going to throw out an analogy a little closer to reality.
Steve spent years penniless through schooling and horrible jobs with the dream of one day working as a video game developer.
Steve eventually began getting a contract here or there which sometimes would last 6 weeks, and if lucky a few months.
The jobs were tedious and not fulfilling: we need you to make 700 diffent chairs or your job is to go back through the code line by line in this one section or your job is to edit all the quest text.
Those jobs wouldn't have benefits, and Steve would end up penniless again for months at a time, waiting for the next contract.
After years of this, he gets his big break. A three year contract. SWToR. Bioware. Dream come true. If the game does well, his contract may be extended past the 3 years - hazah!
Steve, your job on SWTOR is to design 5000 star warsy chairs. We loved your chair work on your resume.
SWTOR does poorly. Steve's contract ends early rather than late.
Players ignorant of what the real development world is like run to the forums and exclaim, "Everyone should be canned for this project"
I hate this chat, SWTOR's problem wasn't even that it was like WoW.
WoW has oodles of better features than SWTOR, at least in WoW you arent forced down a tunnel of a planet with invisible walls everywhere.
They tried to copy WoW and put a Star Wars skin on it, and did a terrible job at trying to even get the basics right at launch There's no reason with the budget they had for SWTOR, for the laziness, arrogance, %^%$ poor excuse of a WoW clone.
I am not surprised. If you make a game that is as bad as SWTOR, you don't deserve to have a job in the gaming industry anyways. It is sad so many developers are so out of touch with the community and what is good/bad in gaming in general.
Players ignorant of what the real development world is like run to the forums and exclaim, "Everyone should be canned for this project"
Steve re-evaluates his life's ambition.
Not everyone is ignorant, but when the ship goes down, the mechanics, the servants, even the janitors go with it. In this SWTOR ship the captain and his co-horts get the lifeboat, which isn't our reflection on how a ship should go down.
I feel sorry for the those who bet their career on this game. Designers/Developers cried when EA stated they had to nerf the game to release for 2011. It could have been so much more. The main money for this project was spent already, EA stocks were at a high ... why not just refine the game before release? Why release it as a somewhat complete game?
Blame the high ups, who have no idea about gaming, no idea about what anyone wants, no idea about where the industry is going.
Sit in your chairs, have meetings, and decide what we want (without us being involved) and burn. Burn. Burn .. EA stocks are burning ..
I remember the moment I started hating him was in that video where he attempted to defend their "space system" and poke fun at SWG's.
What a worthless sack of crap, he is.
and Ohlen, they just wouldn't listen to feedback in beta at all
As much as I totally disagree with Daniel Erickson major design decision and kinda pissed off by James Ohlen poor management of the game development I don't want them or any other people being fired.
I just wish they'd move to other projects in which they could really shine.
IMHO they are nice guys, they are just in the wrong shoes atm and well they have one of the worst communication management since SWG and AoC post launch. Does not helps.
Instead of firing the workers who only did what they were told by the leadership, it is the leadership (Daniel Erickson) that should be fired. I will cheer for the firing of the leadership (who are ultimately responsible for SWTOR's debacle), but I can't cheer when everyday workers lose their jobs.
The Executive Producer is now considered "little people" these days?
Instead of firing the workers who only did what they were told by the leadership, it is the leadership (Daniel Erickson) that should be fired. I will cheer for the firing of the leadership (who are ultimately responsible for SWTOR's debacle), but I can't cheer when everyday workers lose their jobs.
The Executive Producer is now considered "little people" these days?
Daniel Erickson is just one example of the kind of leadership which was responsible for the SWTOR debacle. the "little people" are the workers who only did what they were told to do, artists, designers, programmers, etc, etc.
I now see why there were quite a few people that quit right after launch. They got to find a means to continue their career and not be at the mercy of EA's firing squad.
Instead of firing the workers who only did what they were told by the leadership, it is the leadership (Daniel Erickson) that should be fired. I will cheer for the firing of the leadership (who are ultimately responsible for SWTOR's debacle), but I can't cheer when everyday workers lose their jobs.
The Executive Producer is now considered "little people" these days?
Daniel Erickson is just one example of the kind of leadership which was responsible for the SWTOR debacle. the "little people" are the workers who only did what they were told to do, artists, designers, programmers, etc, etc.
That's all well and good but the article is mostly about the Executive Producer Rich Vogel leaving. Normally the title "Executive Producer" means leadership position so I don't get all these posts talking about the top cheeses getting off scotch free.
Originally posted by Tayah Originally posted by CujoSWAoAI won't smile until Erickson is gone.I remember the moment I started hating him was in that video where he attempted to defend their "space system" and poke fun at SWG's.What a worthless sack of crap, he is.
and Ohlen, they just wouldn't listen to feedback in beta at all They were only interested in bug reports, same goes for major patches on PTS, they don't want feedback on newly added features/changes, they just want feedback on bug reporting, even when they say the changes aren't finaly- they actually are... and when they're not happy with it, they'll make another patch changing it (usually "too little too late" occurs here).
Instead of firing the workers who only did what they were told by the leadership, it is the leadership (Daniel Erickson) that should be fired. I will cheer for the firing of the leadership (who are ultimately responsible for SWTOR's debacle), but I can't cheer when everyday workers lose their jobs.
The Executive Producer is now considered "little people" these days?
Daniel Erickson is just one example of the kind of leadership which was responsible for the SWTOR debacle. the "little people" are the workers who only did what they were told to do, artists, designers, programmers, etc, etc.
That's all well and good but the article is mostly about the Executive Producer Rich Vogel leaving. Normally the title "Executive Producer" means leadership position so I don't get all these posts talking about the top cheeses getting off scotch free.
title of thread: "more layoffs"... it is not just Rich Vogel is who getting canned, EA/Bio will fire many people from their office in Austin in order to cut losses. Btw, the article says that Richard Vogel left Bioware, not that he was fired; most likely he got a severance package. As for the people from Austin getting fired, hopefully they'll get some form of a severance package and will be able to find new jobs.
Everyone is so caught up in the 2nd biggest Star Wars hater in the world (Vogel) getting canned that nobody is commenting on the other thing in the article. BTW, George Lucas is the 1st biggest Star Wars hater. Vogel was there for SWG's NGE then ran to safety in Bioware where he could continue his campaign killing Star Wars.
Anyway, in the article is this quote from EA "In the weeks ahead, we will announce plans for growing The Old Republic with new content, new players and new ways to play."
"New ways to play" sounds like F2P?
I feel bad for the regular workers getting laid off. If any of them were already outsourced jobs then sorry I don't feel so bad, but to the ones still employed in the US, I wish you all the best. I know you guys must of known this day would be coming and I only hope you stayed employed there because you have backup plans or no choice since the economy is as bad as it is. Good luck to all of you.
Everyone is so caught up in the 2nd biggest Star Wars hater in the world (Vogel) getting canned that nobody is commenting on the other thing in the article. BTW, George Lucas is the 1st biggest Star Wars hater. Vogel was there for SWG's NGE then ran to safety in Bioware where he could continue his campaign killing Star Wars.
Anyway, in the article is this quote from EA "In the weeks ahead, we will announce plans for growing The Old Republic with new content, new players and new ways to play."
"New ways to play" sounds like F2P?
I feel bad for the regular workers getting laid off. If any of them were already outsourced jobs then sorry I don't feel so bad, but to the ones still employed in the US, I wish you all the best. I know you guys must of known this day would be coming and I only hope you stayed employed there because you have backup plans or no choice since the economy is as bad as it is. Good luck to all of you.
I can't imagine what George Lucas is thinking... but he is the clear winner here .. everything lost .. EA/ / Bioware lose out, players lost out .. but George still gets a chunk.... after the debt it paid off.
This game could just struggle for the next 5 years and Lucas will profit.
Mr Lucas: I like your movies, they were highly innovative, and made me fantasize. I can't do much for your new game TOR .. I can't fantasize .. but could you innovative more next time .. maybe even a little bit?
ps I love voice quests, but please understand what MMORPG'ers want .. read up a bit :P
Everyone is so caught up in the 2nd biggest Star Wars hater in the world (Vogel) getting canned that nobody is commenting on the other thing in the article. BTW, George Lucas is the 1st biggest Star Wars hater. Vogel was there for SWG's NGE then ran to safety in Bioware where he could continue his campaign killing Star Wars.
Anyway, in the article is this quote from EA"In the weeks ahead, we will announce plans for growing The Old Republic with new content, new players and new ways to play."
"New ways to play" sounds like F2P?
I feel bad for the regular workers getting laid off. If any of them were already outsourced jobs then sorry I don't feel so bad, but to the ones still employed in the US, I wish you all the best. I know you guys must of known this day would be coming and I only hope you stayed employed there because you have backup plans or no choice since the economy is as bad as it is. Good luck to all of you.
I can't imagine what George Lucas is thinking... but he is the clear winner here .. everything lost .. EA/ / Bioware lose out, players lost out .. but George still gets a chunk.... after the debt it paid off.
This game could just struggle for the next 5 years and Lucas will profit.
Mr Lucas: I like your movies, they were highly innovative, and made me fantasize. I can't do much for your new game TOR .. I can't fantasize .. but could you innovative more next time .. maybe even a little bit?
ps I love voice quests, but please understand what MMORPG'ers want .. read up a bit :P
This game's plug will have been pulled by December.
Anyway, in the article is this quote from EA "In the weeks ahead, we will announce plans for growing The Old Republic with new content, new players and new ways to play."
"New ways to play" sounds like F2P?
That doesn't sound like anything. "New ways to play" could mean they want to add sandbox content, cross server group finders or basically anything.
Anyway, in the article is this quote from EA "In the weeks ahead, we will announce plans for growing The Old Republic with new content, new players and new ways to play."
"New ways to play" sounds like F2P?
That doesn't sound like anything. "New ways to play" could mean they want to add sandbox content, cross server group finders or basically anything.
This game will NEVER have sandbox play. It's just not built into the game.
To EA, new ways to play could mean (in a court of law) using a slightly different mouse click when trying to click the elevator load screen.
Anyway, in the article is this quote from EA "In the weeks ahead, we will announce plans for growing The Old Republic with new content, new players and new ways to play."
"New ways to play" sounds like F2P?
That doesn't sound like anything. "New ways to play" could mean they want to add sandbox content, cross server group finders or basically anything.
*shudder*
Echoes of the famous "NGE" perhaps ?
I'd not wish that on any game and it's fans...
Mr Lucas earns nothing substantial unless EA can turn a good profit here. BUT Mr Lucas does own the IP. What might the clauses in that licence contract be ? How much pressure can LA put on EA/Bioware ?
Anyway, in the article is this quote from EA "In the weeks ahead, we will announce plans for growing The Old Republic with new content, new players and new ways to play."
"New ways to play" sounds like F2P?
That doesn't sound like anything. "New ways to play" could mean they want to add sandbox content, cross server group finders or basically anything.
*shudder*
Echoes of the famous "NGE" perhaps ?
I'd not wish that on any game and it's fans...
Mr Lucas earns nothing substantial unless EA can turn a good profit here. BUT Mr Lucas does own the IP. What might the clauses in that licence contract be ? How much pressure can LA put on EA/Bioware ?
He's also what 70 years old? He might not know what the internet is, let alone a MMO? ..no offense to age groups, just sayin'
Anyway, in the article is this quote from EA "In the weeks ahead, we will announce plans for growing The Old Republic with new content, new players and new ways to play."
"New ways to play" sounds like F2P?
That doesn't sound like anything. "New ways to play" could mean they want to add sandbox content, cross server group finders or basically anything.
This game will NEVER have sandbox play. It's just not built into the game.
To EA, new ways to play could mean (in a court of law) using a slightly different mouse click when trying to click the elevator load screen.
LOL =P
Great Post. That made me chuckle for real... Sadly- ITS TRUE.
Anyway, in the article is this quote from EA "In the weeks ahead, we will announce plans for growing The Old Republic with new content, new players and new ways to play."
"New ways to play" sounds like F2P?
That doesn't sound like anything. "New ways to play" could mean they want to add sandbox content, cross server group finders or basically anything.
*shudder*
Echoes of the famous "NGE" perhaps ?
I'd not wish that on any game and it's fans...
Mr Lucas earns nothing substantial unless EA can turn a good profit here. BUT Mr Lucas does own the IP. What might the clauses in that licence contract be ? How much pressure can LA put on EA/Bioware ?
There was a thread on this forum months ago talking about what SWTOR needs and I am going to steal from thread:
SWTOR needs a Reverse -NGE. Yes that is right, a reverse-NGE. It's a very complicated procedure, only a handful of people in the world could accomplish such a thing. Just take everything bad about the WoWification of the NGE and reverse it--introduce sandbox elements, open the game world up, give players freedom to use their brains.
It's a novel concept and is never going to happen, but still funny to think about
But they need to concentrate on what makes them different (4th pillar, STORY). There are alot of games out there that do WoW better than they can, WoW comes to mind ;D.
I just dont see a way for them to move forward unless they do.
Also do you think it would be that easy to just pull the plug on the project? I would think both sides would have some type of say, even if George owns the IP.
Comments
In my earlier comment, I think I meant James Ohlen and not Daniel Erickson.
It was Ohlen that spoke in that video i referenced.
I just get them confused... cause... I don't care a lick about them or their shitty game.
I'm going to throw out an analogy a little closer to reality.
Steve spent years penniless through schooling and horrible jobs with the dream of one day working as a video game developer.
Steve eventually began getting a contract here or there which sometimes would last 6 weeks, and if lucky a few months.
The jobs were tedious and not fulfilling: we need you to make 700 diffent chairs or your job is to go back through the code line by line in this one section or your job is to edit all the quest text.
Those jobs wouldn't have benefits, and Steve would end up penniless again for months at a time, waiting for the next contract.
After years of this, he gets his big break. A three year contract. SWToR. Bioware. Dream come true. If the game does well, his contract may be extended past the 3 years - hazah!
Steve, your job on SWTOR is to design 5000 star warsy chairs. We loved your chair work on your resume.
SWTOR does poorly. Steve's contract ends early rather than late.
Players ignorant of what the real development world is like run to the forums and exclaim, "Everyone should be canned for this project"
Steve re-evaluates his life's ambition.
They tried to copy WoW and put a Star Wars skin on it, and did a terrible job at trying to even get the basics right at launch There's no reason with the budget they had for SWTOR, for the laziness, arrogance, %^%$ poor excuse of a WoW clone.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
I am not surprised. If you make a game that is as bad as SWTOR, you don't deserve to have a job in the gaming industry anyways. It is sad so many developers are so out of touch with the community and what is good/bad in gaming in general.
Not everyone is ignorant, but when the ship goes down, the mechanics, the servants, even the janitors go with it. In this SWTOR ship the captain and his co-horts get the lifeboat, which isn't our reflection on how a ship should go down.
I feel sorry for the those who bet their career on this game. Designers/Developers cried when EA stated they had to nerf the game to release for 2011. It could have been so much more. The main money for this project was spent already, EA stocks were at a high ... why not just refine the game before release? Why release it as a somewhat complete game?
Blame the high ups, who have no idea about gaming, no idea about what anyone wants, no idea about where the industry is going.
Sit in your chairs, have meetings, and decide what we want (without us being involved) and burn. Burn. Burn .. EA stocks are burning ..
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
As much as I totally disagree with Daniel Erickson major design decision and kinda pissed off by James Ohlen poor management of the game development I don't want them or any other people being fired.
I just wish they'd move to other projects in which they could really shine.
IMHO they are nice guys, they are just in the wrong shoes atm and well they have one of the worst communication management since SWG and AoC post launch. Does not helps.
The Executive Producer is now considered "little people" these days?
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Daniel Erickson is just one example of the kind of leadership which was responsible for the SWTOR debacle. the "little people" are the workers who only did what they were told to do, artists, designers, programmers, etc, etc.
I now see why there were quite a few people that quit right after launch. They got to find a means to continue their career and not be at the mercy of EA's firing squad.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
They were only interested in bug reports, same goes for major patches on PTS, they don't want feedback on newly added features/changes, they just want feedback on bug reporting, even when they say the changes aren't finaly- they actually are... and when they're not happy with it, they'll make another patch changing it (usually "too little too late" occurs here).
title of thread: "more layoffs"... it is not just Rich Vogel is who getting canned, EA/Bio will fire many people from their office in Austin in order to cut losses. Btw, the article says that Richard Vogel left Bioware, not that he was fired; most likely he got a severance package. As for the people from Austin getting fired, hopefully they'll get some form of a severance package and will be able to find new jobs.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118534-Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-Loses-Executive-Producer
Everyone is so caught up in the 2nd biggest Star Wars hater in the world (Vogel) getting canned that nobody is commenting on the other thing in the article. BTW, George Lucas is the 1st biggest Star Wars hater. Vogel was there for SWG's NGE then ran to safety in Bioware where he could continue his campaign killing Star Wars.
Anyway, in the article is this quote from EA "In the weeks ahead, we will announce plans for growing The Old Republic with new content, new players and new ways to play."
"New ways to play" sounds like F2P?
I feel bad for the regular workers getting laid off. If any of them were already outsourced jobs then sorry I don't feel so bad, but to the ones still employed in the US, I wish you all the best. I know you guys must of known this day would be coming and I only hope you stayed employed there because you have backup plans or no choice since the economy is as bad as it is. Good luck to all of you.
I can't imagine what George Lucas is thinking... but he is the clear winner here .. everything lost .. EA/ / Bioware lose out, players lost out .. but George still gets a chunk.... after the debt it paid off.
This game could just struggle for the next 5 years and Lucas will profit.
Mr Lucas: I like your movies, they were highly innovative, and made me fantasize. I can't do much for your new game TOR .. I can't fantasize .. but could you innovative more next time .. maybe even a little bit?
ps I love voice quests, but please understand what MMORPG'ers want .. read up a bit :P
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
This game's plug will have been pulled by December.
Re: SWTOR
"Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"
That doesn't sound like anything. "New ways to play" could mean they want to add sandbox content, cross server group finders or basically anything.
Pulled by who?
EA? Not likely. The worst case for them is treating it like Turbine treats LOTRO, add content very rarely with a tiny development team.
LA? Even less likely. It takes years to develop an MMO, SWTOR will still earn them cash even if they stop paying attention to it.
You're either a troll or misinformed.
Amen to that bro. Erickson is a douche if ever I have seen one!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
This game will NEVER have sandbox play. It's just not built into the game.
To EA, new ways to play could mean (in a court of law) using a slightly different mouse click when trying to click the elevator load screen.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
*shudder*
Echoes of the famous "NGE" perhaps ?
I'd not wish that on any game and it's fans...
Mr Lucas earns nothing substantial unless EA can turn a good profit here. BUT Mr Lucas does own the IP. What might the clauses in that licence contract be ? How much pressure can LA put on EA/Bioware ?
He's also what 70 years old? He might not know what the internet is, let alone a MMO? ..no offense to age groups, just sayin'
He's also not a forum broser.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
LOL =P
Great Post. That made me chuckle for real... Sadly- ITS TRUE.
There was a thread on this forum months ago talking about what SWTOR needs and I am going to steal from thread:
SWTOR needs a Reverse -NGE. Yes that is right, a reverse-NGE. It's a very complicated procedure, only a handful of people in the world could accomplish such a thing. Just take everything bad about the WoWification of the NGE and reverse it--introduce sandbox elements, open the game world up, give players freedom to use their brains.
It's a novel concept and is never going to happen, but still funny to think about
My Opinion Only:
But they need to concentrate on what makes them different (4th pillar, STORY). There are alot of games out there that do WoW better than they can, WoW comes to mind ;D.
I just dont see a way for them to move forward unless they do.
Also do you think it would be that easy to just pull the plug on the project? I would think both sides would have some type of say, even if George owns the IP.