I think it is more to do with the fact that TOR is too much of a singleplayer experience while TSW have multiplaying as main focus.
TOR is well made but a singleplayer game with some multiplayer stuff added, MMO fans usually tire of that fast.
I enjoy both TSW and TOR and this is something I can't really agree with. TSW is just as much of a single player or rather solo experience as TOR. I haven't really ran into anything yet that would suggest otherwise. If anything I've grouped less in TSW compared to TOR but they both seem to be about on par in terms of solo and group content so far.
I gotta agree with the poster above. I've been playing since early access and although I am taking my time, I have only grouped a handful of times. Easily as little as I did during early levels of TOR.
To the OP: I think MOST of the backlash TOR is suffering is due to the high expectations of everyone going in (rightly so, as well). SWTOR is by no means a bad game (IMO), yet people were expecting something extraordinary (which a lot of people felt they didnt get).
TSW, on the other hand, with Funcom's reputation, a lot of people expected it to be disappointing. So, seeing as the game is somewhat decent and has some unique elements, I think people are embracing it a bit more.
Remember, the TOR backlash really didnt start until people burned through the content and reflected back. I'm sure we will see our fair share of grumbling once they finish the content of TSW.
In TOR, the script is constrained by the IP. In Secret world, the writers had more room to experiment, and also for some silliness/self awarness. The Voice Acting also, just seems more genuine and believable.
If I had to pick what I like better in TSW it would be the skill system and atmosphere. I love not being pigeonholed in any one class and I have the freedom to try everything without having to roll an alt, or in the case of TOR SEVERAL alts. I also like the fact that NPcs aren't just standing around waiting for me to kill them. They are always doing something whether it is walking across an area or eating on a corpse. This helps make the world feel alive and more dangerous. Plus I can't just faceroll everything like I could TOR. These monsters are hard. What workd on one set won't neccesarily work on another. Also in TOR the only repeatable quests were heroics,flashpoints and operations. TSW allows you repeat pretty much everything, so if I want to pop back in to kingsmouth and defend the sheriff station from zombie attacks I can.
In TOR, the script is constrained by the IP. In Secret world, the writers had more room to experiment, and also for some silliness/self awarness. The Voice Acting also, just seems more genuine and believable.
Yes and no, the voice acting and script in TSW is better but there is no interraction, your character seems to be a mute as he/she never speaks and this ruins the immersion.
TOR's interractions through the cutscenes keep you in the game, TSW removes you from control and you have to sit there and just watch.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Judging from the communities of each game, I would say SWTOR has more staying power than TSW. TSW seems to attract a ... "specific" type of person (I can't say it specifically for fear of being banned) but SWTOR has moved beyond having those types of players. The community seems alot more solid now. The population isn't as immense as they would have hoped, but I see alot more staying power with SWTOR then TSW.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Well as someone whos played both, let me put this into terms a SWTOR player can understand.
Filler content is actually interesting, and ties in with the big picture, and your not quest hubbing it...quest hubbing in SWTOR detracted from the individual storyline and how it ties in to what your doing.
You dont have predictable outcomes in the story.
If TSW was SWTOR, illum would have worked and been playable and the nightmare ops (odlly enough called nightmare dungeons in TSW) would be fun, challanging, and quick.
Also TSW has an advantage that SWTOR didnt. The hardcore pvp crowd, you know the ones that dont play any pve they just queue from level 10 to endgame, avoided the game and went with GW2 a game better suited to that playstyle. SWTOR had a HUGE amount of people obsessed with the pvp queues, their beloved ilum didnt work (now they hate mass pvp its zerg so i guess that didnt matter) and most hated the huttball map since it offerd new mechanics that would stop a dominating team from both farming and winning.
The pve and story delivery between SWTOR and TSW are day and night. SWTOR had a great class story, lame side quests, an all of it was predictible. The light and dark system didnt enhance the story it just put you on rails if you wanted to wear one type of gear, leaving neuterals with possibly a better story twist but no place in the game, if you will.
Now... I don't have a copy of TSW yet. I've been excited about this game was supposed to be for a long time, but now that it's out I look at these forums and see that the general sentiment seems to be "meh, the game is ok, but it doesn't bring anything new".
One of the things I see mentioned is cutscenes and voice acting. Alright, is it really that good? And if it IS that good, why is it somehow revolutionary wheras SW:TOR's cutscenes/voice acting were thoroughly flamed with great measure on these boards? Is this game not as good as it was supposed to be but the fanbois are too embarassed to admit it and the "honeymoon period" hasn't worn off yet?
Come to think of it, from the discussions on these boards, a lot of things about this game sound lackluster. "Levelless" system still feels pretty much the same as a "level system", combat is clunky, animations are poor, content is lacking (granted, it's a new MMO and this has to be the case).
I don't know - for all the complaints I see, I'm surprised that its score is so high on the rankings. Fill me in?
The general sentiment is not "Meh, the game is ok, but it doesn't bring anything new," especially not on MMORPG.com
If you look properly you'll see that most gamers who play TSW on here are more like "One of the greatest MMO's ever" or "Best MMO in years" and things on those lines. I might not agree with them, but that's what most are saying.
TSW seems to have a good balance with their story and game content. It mixes well. The MMORPG part of the game is pretty good. The weakness is the attack animations and the clunky MMORPG type combat. So it's not perfect, but they did a good job with it.
SWToR has a story game and an MMORPG, but the two don't mesh well. SWToR's MMORPG is weak. It's the closest thing you can get to a WoW Clone without actually being a WoW Clone or WoW. They could have minimized all those MMORPG mechanics (combat, skill points, crafting) and left the main focus of the game be the story, companions, personal space ship and space missions. I'm not sure what they could have done for the end game, but the part of the game that most people would play would have been a lot better. In my opinion of course.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I really only have 2 complaints about TSW, the combat and animations. The animations have gotten better, but they just feel off, it's really funny to be running along and you tell your character to swing his blade, and his lower body doesn't move and the top half makes a big sweeping motion with the blade.
Probably the biggest problem is the combat. First is the abilities. There are only like 3-4 abilities in any given deck that you're going to use, and some you only used 2 mostly. The wheel is sort of complicated, and it would be great if they just made it so you could pick or make a deck and as you leveled it automatically put in points, so you don't have to stop every 10 minutes to put in points in the wheel. Then there's the button mashing. If you've ever seen a combat video you'll notice the hotbar key flashing like it's going out of style, that's because you sit there pressing 11111111111111111111 to get 5 attacks, then 22222 to get a finisher off, then back to 11111111111111111111. I'm not a fan of auto-attack, but it just seems so repetative, and you can really mess up your keyboard/hands doing that so much lol.
Other than that it's a near perfect game. SWTOR on the other hand, I can only say two good things about it, and for me they're pretty big. One, it's star wars. I'm a sucker for star wars, I think i've paid half the mortgage on lucas' ranch lol. Second is open world pvp. Although it's rare, but when it happens and you get enough people, it's a blast...I hope they expand on this and let us take over stuff...empire ftw
SWTOR after its first month was still considered the greatest game ever....It wasnt until players started reaching max level that it started to be a bad game....TSW will face the same fate....People are excited because it is new, but imo in 6 months it will have the same exact issues as SWTOR......ALso the cutscenes were way overdone in TSW and imo greatly ruined the game.......I was sick of them before I even left Kingsmouth.
People got blinded by the "zomg it's modern setting, no elves, no gnomes, no lightsabers, just reality" thing.
I've been in the closed beta (the one you could play all the time, and not just week ends) for a long time, and decided not to buy... the game suffers the same problem than SW:TOR, but only worse, since the "world" is like 50% smaller, as well as the content.
In a couple of months, you will see the same posts than those we have seen for SW:TOR after the same time.
PS: I was never blinded nor by SW:TOR neither by TSW - I've always considered both like "3 monther games".
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I think it is more to do with the fact that TOR is too much of a singleplayer experience while TSW have multiplaying as main focus.
TOR is well made but a singleplayer game with some multiplayer stuff added, MMO fans usually tire of that fast.
And yet there is this constant droning by many, many posters about how difficult Blue Mountain and other higher end areas are for soloers. Seems to me it's yet another example like the original EQ that shows forced grouping is not the answer. All of these MMOs are multiplayer, but if the majority choose not to do so voluntarily, then maybe the market shouldn't try to force them too either.
The story presentation in TSW is vastly different from SW:TOR, you aren't on a railtrack with no way to get off, each major quest has it's own story that aren't linked in such a way that ties you in to one direction. Those stories are often ones of personality and experience of events in the world, not your experience but theirs, that difference means you choose which ones to go with and how to create your own story within a setting provided for you. It's all about the story creating atmosphere and not about the story for its own sake. SW:TORs story was about involving you in the story and directing you within it and occasionally providing some choices with consequence. There's a massive difference in the implementation of story between the two. I much prefer TSW's way of doing it, often the characters won't actually talk about the mission they just set you up with background and a feeling.
SWTOR after its first month was still considered the greatest game ever....It wasnt until players started reaching max level that it started to be a bad game....TSW will face the same fate....People are excited because it is new, but imo in 6 months it will have the same exact issues as SWTOR......ALso the cutscenes were way overdone in TSW and imo greatly ruined the game.......I was sick of them before I even left Kingsmouth.
I agree at 100% - every new games are AWSOME...six months later the game is near to become a F2P...
Anyway, I still really like SWTOR, since day 1, the game become better and better after every update and I'm not going to play another MMO for a long time.
TSW will become F2P like his predecessor...AOC...no doubt.
I suppose I have more positive things to say about TSW than TOR, mostly because combat was more varied, but in the end it wasn't varied enough to keep me playing despite enjoying the skill system. I think it was partially that I felt like I hit deadends at various points in progression without having a clear way to get better gear to be able to tackle those situations (gear being the vertical progression and skills being almost completely lateral progression.)
TSW definitely gets points for an excellent atmosphere, but in the end the lack of continuing characters made the cinematics a little irrelevant. Which is sad because the writing and voiceacting were actually fucking awesome. (A big difference from TOR which was definitely Bioware's B-team. If the ME3 team had done TOR it would've been considerably better, though they'd still have to have solved the complete lack of mob variety.)
Despite having nicer things to say about TSW, I think I played it shorter than TOR due to the lack of progression.
And both games would've lasted at least 50% longer with a dungeon finder.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
SWTOR after its first month was still considered the greatest game ever....It wasnt until players started reaching max level that it started to be a bad game....TSW will face the same fate....People are excited because it is new, but imo in 6 months it will have the same exact issues as SWTOR......ALso the cutscenes were way overdone in TSW and imo greatly ruined the game.......I was sick of them before I even left Kingsmouth.
This. I also agree with the guy who said SWTOR has better staying power. At least SWTOR has 8 different stories to try. TSW, apparently has one.
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Why must we always continue down this same path. Good lord you people have no concept of history. Blinded by the next shinny game that releases. Can we atleast wait for the honeymoon phase to wear off.
SWTOR was the greatest game ever, well atleast until the end of january to the first part of febuary.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Comments
I gotta agree with the poster above. I've been playing since early access and although I am taking my time, I have only grouped a handful of times. Easily as little as I did during early levels of TOR.
To the OP: I think MOST of the backlash TOR is suffering is due to the high expectations of everyone going in (rightly so, as well). SWTOR is by no means a bad game (IMO), yet people were expecting something extraordinary (which a lot of people felt they didnt get).
TSW, on the other hand, with Funcom's reputation, a lot of people expected it to be disappointing. So, seeing as the game is somewhat decent and has some unique elements, I think people are embracing it a bit more.
Remember, the TOR backlash really didnt start until people burned through the content and reflected back. I'm sure we will see our fair share of grumbling once they finish the content of TSW.
In TOR, the script is constrained by the IP. In Secret world, the writers had more room to experiment, and also for some silliness/self awarness. The Voice Acting also, just seems more genuine and believable.
If I had to pick what I like better in TSW it would be the skill system and atmosphere. I love not being pigeonholed in any one class and I have the freedom to try everything without having to roll an alt, or in the case of TOR SEVERAL alts. I also like the fact that NPcs aren't just standing around waiting for me to kill them. They are always doing something whether it is walking across an area or eating on a corpse. This helps make the world feel alive and more dangerous. Plus I can't just faceroll everything like I could TOR. These monsters are hard. What workd on one set won't neccesarily work on another. Also in TOR the only repeatable quests were heroics,flashpoints and operations. TSW allows you repeat pretty much everything, so if I want to pop back in to kingsmouth and defend the sheriff station from zombie attacks I can.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Yes and no, the voice acting and script in TSW is better but there is no interraction, your character seems to be a mute as he/she never speaks and this ruins the immersion.
TOR's interractions through the cutscenes keep you in the game, TSW removes you from control and you have to sit there and just watch.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
#1 TSW has no backlash from Star Wars Galaxies fans.
#2 TSW is too new to fail. Give it time.
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Judging from the communities of each game, I would say SWTOR has more staying power than TSW. TSW seems to attract a ... "specific" type of person (I can't say it specifically for fear of being banned) but SWTOR has moved beyond having those types of players. The community seems alot more solid now. The population isn't as immense as they would have hoped, but I see alot more staying power with SWTOR then TSW.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Well as someone whos played both, let me put this into terms a SWTOR player can understand.
Filler content is actually interesting, and ties in with the big picture, and your not quest hubbing it...quest hubbing in SWTOR detracted from the individual storyline and how it ties in to what your doing.
You dont have predictable outcomes in the story.
If TSW was SWTOR, illum would have worked and been playable and the nightmare ops (odlly enough called nightmare dungeons in TSW) would be fun, challanging, and quick.
Also TSW has an advantage that SWTOR didnt. The hardcore pvp crowd, you know the ones that dont play any pve they just queue from level 10 to endgame, avoided the game and went with GW2 a game better suited to that playstyle. SWTOR had a HUGE amount of people obsessed with the pvp queues, their beloved ilum didnt work (now they hate mass pvp its zerg so i guess that didnt matter) and most hated the huttball map since it offerd new mechanics that would stop a dominating team from both farming and winning.
The pve and story delivery between SWTOR and TSW are day and night. SWTOR had a great class story, lame side quests, an all of it was predictible. The light and dark system didnt enhance the story it just put you on rails if you wanted to wear one type of gear, leaving neuterals with possibly a better story twist but no place in the game, if you will.
The general sentiment is not "Meh, the game is ok, but it doesn't bring anything new," especially not on MMORPG.com
If you look properly you'll see that most gamers who play TSW on here are more like "One of the greatest MMO's ever" or "Best MMO in years" and things on those lines. I might not agree with them, but that's what most are saying.
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Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/TSW seems to have a good balance with their story and game content. It mixes well. The MMORPG part of the game is pretty good. The weakness is the attack animations and the clunky MMORPG type combat. So it's not perfect, but they did a good job with it.
SWToR has a story game and an MMORPG, but the two don't mesh well. SWToR's MMORPG is weak. It's the closest thing you can get to a WoW Clone without actually being a WoW Clone or WoW. They could have minimized all those MMORPG mechanics (combat, skill points, crafting) and left the main focus of the game be the story, companions, personal space ship and space missions. I'm not sure what they could have done for the end game, but the part of the game that most people would play would have been a lot better. In my opinion of course.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I really only have 2 complaints about TSW, the combat and animations. The animations have gotten better, but they just feel off, it's really funny to be running along and you tell your character to swing his blade, and his lower body doesn't move and the top half makes a big sweeping motion with the blade.
Probably the biggest problem is the combat. First is the abilities. There are only like 3-4 abilities in any given deck that you're going to use, and some you only used 2 mostly. The wheel is sort of complicated, and it would be great if they just made it so you could pick or make a deck and as you leveled it automatically put in points, so you don't have to stop every 10 minutes to put in points in the wheel. Then there's the button mashing. If you've ever seen a combat video you'll notice the hotbar key flashing like it's going out of style, that's because you sit there pressing 11111111111111111111 to get 5 attacks, then 22222 to get a finisher off, then back to 11111111111111111111. I'm not a fan of auto-attack, but it just seems so repetative, and you can really mess up your keyboard/hands doing that so much lol.
Other than that it's a near perfect game. SWTOR on the other hand, I can only say two good things about it, and for me they're pretty big. One, it's star wars. I'm a sucker for star wars, I think i've paid half the mortgage on lucas' ranch lol. Second is open world pvp. Although it's rare, but when it happens and you get enough people, it's a blast...I hope they expand on this and let us take over stuff...empire ftw
SWTOR after its first month was still considered the greatest game ever....It wasnt until players started reaching max level that it started to be a bad game....TSW will face the same fate....People are excited because it is new, but imo in 6 months it will have the same exact issues as SWTOR......ALso the cutscenes were way overdone in TSW and imo greatly ruined the game.......I was sick of them before I even left Kingsmouth.
Give it time.
Once story will run out for majority of people then things will change.
People got blinded by the "zomg it's modern setting, no elves, no gnomes, no lightsabers, just reality" thing.
I've been in the closed beta (the one you could play all the time, and not just week ends) for a long time, and decided not to buy... the game suffers the same problem than SW:TOR, but only worse, since the "world" is like 50% smaller, as well as the content.
In a couple of months, you will see the same posts than those we have seen for SW:TOR after the same time.
PS: I was never blinded nor by SW:TOR neither by TSW - I've always considered both like "3 monther games".
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
And yet there is this constant droning by many, many posters about how difficult Blue Mountain and other higher end areas are for soloers. Seems to me it's yet another example like the original EQ that shows forced grouping is not the answer. All of these MMOs are multiplayer, but if the majority choose not to do so voluntarily, then maybe the market shouldn't try to force them too either.
The story presentation in TSW is vastly different from SW:TOR, you aren't on a railtrack with no way to get off, each major quest has it's own story that aren't linked in such a way that ties you in to one direction. Those stories are often ones of personality and experience of events in the world, not your experience but theirs, that difference means you choose which ones to go with and how to create your own story within a setting provided for you. It's all about the story creating atmosphere and not about the story for its own sake. SW:TORs story was about involving you in the story and directing you within it and occasionally providing some choices with consequence. There's a massive difference in the implementation of story between the two. I much prefer TSW's way of doing it, often the characters won't actually talk about the mission they just set you up with background and a feeling.
I agree at 100% - every new games are AWSOME...six months later the game is near to become a F2P...
Anyway, I still really like SWTOR, since day 1, the game become better and better after every update and I'm not going to play another MMO for a long time.
TSW will become F2P like his predecessor...AOC...no doubt.
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Because SWTOR was released 6+ months ago and TSW less than one month ago.
Once people finish the content we will see if TSW can even retain 30% of it's playerbase.
I suppose I have more positive things to say about TSW than TOR, mostly because combat was more varied, but in the end it wasn't varied enough to keep me playing despite enjoying the skill system. I think it was partially that I felt like I hit deadends at various points in progression without having a clear way to get better gear to be able to tackle those situations (gear being the vertical progression and skills being almost completely lateral progression.)
TSW definitely gets points for an excellent atmosphere, but in the end the lack of continuing characters made the cinematics a little irrelevant. Which is sad because the writing and voiceacting were actually fucking awesome. (A big difference from TOR which was definitely Bioware's B-team. If the ME3 team had done TOR it would've been considerably better, though they'd still have to have solved the complete lack of mob variety.)
Despite having nicer things to say about TSW, I think I played it shorter than TOR due to the lack of progression.
And both games would've lasted at least 50% longer with a dungeon finder.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think you are right. Sad as it is.
SWTOR had higher rankings around its release also...
Once the blinders start to fall off for TSW, it will drop down where it should be.
This. I also agree with the guy who said SWTOR has better staying power. At least SWTOR has 8 different stories to try. TSW, apparently has one.
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TSW=Few quest per zone good VO
TOR=Many Quest per zone Pointless VO(too many individual ones)
SWTOR is more popular to hate on, that's why.
Personally I just wish less MMOs with load-screen separated zones were being made.
Why must we always continue down this same path. Good lord you people have no concept of history. Blinded by the next shinny game that releases. Can we atleast wait for the honeymoon phase to wear off.
SWTOR was the greatest game ever, well atleast until the end of january to the first part of febuary.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI