We already know that trying to play as the trinity won't work as the tools aren't there. Although I think it would be interesting to see them try it (I would expect it to fail horribly to be honest).
Actually ... it can work very well, the tools ARE there. The lack of a taunt mechanic makes it interesting but you can still very much pull off having one person tank damage and heal it.
@ Lord.Barachus "One thing is sure, the best heal abbility is a battle rezz..."
I think the Guardians conal full heal is the best personally.
You can't take much hits and you certainly can't spam heals. Post a video of them doing so to prove me wrong. I'm going by personal experience with this as we briefly tried it versus some champion mobs (ironically I did better solo versus those mobs on my ranger than I did in a group).
No the trinity isn't broken, when you are up against easy pve you never had to worry about the trinity in any game.
I wish people could contribute to the conversation instead of blurting out this kind of garbage.
Thank you for making yourself look like a complete tool by having no idea what you're talking about.
I do believe they do a good job with doing away with the trinity. On one hand I'm glad to see it go, on the other I will probably still play a game with it beause I do enjoy it.
Garbage? You are trying to argue that they did away with the trinity, when in reality all they did was make a game so easy that you could do whatever you wanted and faceroll through it.
It would be like someone saying the trinity wasn't required in WoW because they could 5dps a 5man dungeon.
As I have told you before I dont agree. Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2. IF the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and smart and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity yet.
Actually, they aren't there in GW2. Why? Because no class is dedicated to healing or damage mitigation.
Show me the dedicated healer in GW2. I'd love to see it.
As I have told you before I dont agree. Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2. IF the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and smart and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity yet.
Actually, they aren't there in GW2. Why? Because no class is dedicated to healing or damage mitigation.
Show me the dedicated healer in GW2. I'd love to see it.
I was a great dedicated healer in beta pvp with my elementalist... try again...
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by RobertDinh
I come from an era where pve content wasn't designed to be beaten in the matter of weeks.
I come from an era when devs made bosses that they weren't even sure were beatable, just to see if players would take up the challenge.
you are talking about raid content - not dungeon group content
your "era" didnt have any undefeated dungeon bosses
I come from the same era and dont share your memories
You probably weren't at the top of progression then eh? In my era our dungeons were part of the persistent world.
As I have told you before I dont agree. Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2. IF the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and smart and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity yet.
That isn't what a trinity system is. The trinity system is support, control and DPS. Control = tanking. A tank class is like a 100% long lasting CC that keeps all the mobs attention. It isn't just "damage mitigation", you have to control what is going on or a tank is completely worthless.
Support is what is supporting the control/tank and keeping them alive. As well as maybe offering secondary buffs/debuffs/CC for the group to use. It isn't simply just "healing".
The problem is, the main focus of groups is and always was the tank and the healer. DPS was pretty much always a dime a dozen and an afterthought until enrage timers came into play.
GW2 most definitely has support, control and damage builds, but it is most definitely different than other games. You don't have one person standing there taking all the hits. That simply can't happen. You will die eventually unless you have like your entire team rotate spamming heals on you. GW2 feels more like everyone kind of performs support/control/DPS depending on the situation, and your role can change dynamically during a fight. If one person is taking a lot of damage, they will dodge/move back ... someone else will start taking the hits. A "DPS" might ease up on damage and switch to a supportive role and give the hurt player some buffs/protection/healing.
GW2 is a game where all the roles can perform all the duties. And this is all dynamically changing in real time. Everyone is DPS'ing, everyone is Supporting, everyone is helping Control the fights as best as they can. There simply isn't just one person only performing one duty ... as that simply can't happen in the game (especially with how long some of the CD's are).
No the trinity isn't broken, when you are up against easy pve you never had to worry about the trinity in any game.
I wish people could contribute to the conversation instead of blurting out this kind of garbage.
Thank you for making yourself look like a complete tool by having no idea what you're talking about.
I do believe they do a good job with doing away with the trinity. On one hand I'm glad to see it go, on the other I will probably still play a game with it beause I do enjoy it.
Garbage? You are trying to argue that they did away with the trinity, when in reality all they did was make a game so easy that you could do whatever you wanted and faceroll through it.
It would be like someone saying the trinity wasn't required in WoW because they could 5dps a 5man dungeon.
I've played FFXI for 8 years now. I know a challenge when I see it. I have also played through Catacombs with Devs in the beta. You on the other hand have probably done neither. I don't think I really need to say anymore.
They beat part of the ascalon catacombs with a full DPS team.
Did they break the trinnity or would this have been easier with a full team of support pecced players?
This is possible in WoW too, as long peeps are well equipped and know what they are doing.
Anyway, the good thing about GW2 is that the game mechanics do not requires the Holy Trinity which means that we no longer have to wait ages for an Healer or a Tank to start a Dungeon.
I LOVE the Trinity, but in casual games like GW2 I don't mind if it is not there, and GW2 does a good job at it.
As I have told you before I dont agree. Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2. IF the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and smart and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity yet.
Actually, they aren't there in GW2. Why? Because no class is dedicated to healing or damage mitigation.
Show me the dedicated healer in GW2. I'd love to see it.
I was a great dedicated healer in beta pvp with my elementalist... try again...
Oh really?
Please, tell us more about this class that is supposedly dedicated towards just healing.
And here I was thinking that they only have a couple small heals that barely healed a fraction of someone's life. Seriously, I'd love to hear about your epic dedicated healing from the elementalist class! Do you have any videos of this, I'd love seeing you dominating sPvP on your dedicated healer.
As I have told you before I dont agree. Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2. IF the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and smart and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity yet.
Actually, they aren't there in GW2. Why? Because no class is dedicated to healing or damage mitigation.
Show me the dedicated healer in GW2. I'd love to see it.
You dont need to have anyoine dedicated at a single role for it to be in the game. The roles are shared across the team but the trinity is still in play. What makes a Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2 but just shared accross the team. If the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity. All 3 roles are in GW2, Im a fan and love the game but as a MMOer who has been MMOing 14 years its easy to see the basic elements that make up GW2.
We already know that trying to play as the trinity won't work as the tools aren't there. Although I think it would be interesting to see them try it (I would expect it to fail horribly to be honest).
Actually ... it can work very well, the tools ARE there. The lack of a taunt mechanic makes it interesting but you can still very much pull off having one person tank damage and heal it.
@ Lord.Barachus "One thing is sure, the best heal abbility is a battle rezz..."
I think the Guardians conal full heal is the best personally.
You can't take much hits and you certainly can't spam heals. Post a video of them doing so to prove me wrong. I'm going by personal experience with this as we briefly tried it versus some champion mobs (ironically I did better solo versus those mobs on my ranger than I did in a group).
Like I said the mechanics relating to the typical "tank" role are interesting but it can still be done. Most of you folks think that simply because I believe you can in fact run a sucessful trinityesque group that it means we disregard normal Gw2 rules such as dodging and avoiding damage, or that we spam 4 water eles on a guardian. There are applicable ways to run a trinityesque group within the system that Gw2 requires, thats the message.
I'll repeat it so people stop with " Have fun tanking damage " comments, just because I have a dedicated tank in a dungeon doesn't mean he is going to be absorbing damage he doesn't have to.
Originally posted by ste2000 Originally posted by Lord.Bachushttp://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/breaking-the-trinity/They beat part of the ascalon catacombs with a full DPS team.Did they break the trinnity or would this have been easier with a full team of support pecced players?
This is possible in WoW too, as long peeps are well equipped and know what they are doing.
Anyway, the good thing about GW2 is that the game mechanics do not requires the Holy Trinity which means that we no longer have to wait ages for an Healer or a Tank to start a Dungeon.
I LOVE the Trinity, but in casual games like GW2 I don't mind if it is not there, and GW2 does a good job at it.
Untill such time you 'apply' for groups and they say: "sorry, we need a support class"
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
He keeps referring to Gear issues. I thought "gear issues" were abolished in gw2, and there was no notable difference in gear.
He makes it seem like its some milestone that the trinity is broken. There are games without trinities and soft trinities. Whats basicly occurring here seems like a dps is taking a tank psudo role and then switching when low on health. not rocket science.
Gear issues are abolished.. AT LEVEL 80.
But I have the impression you knew this already. What the video refers to is that they had bad gear for the level of the dungeon, something that is present in any game with levels.
The video, however, did not impress me much. As others have said, it is not so impressive to not use trinity in low level dungeons.
Now I have no idea what dungeon this is, but fairly low level probably, so I would compare it to Dead Mines, that is quite easy to do nowadays without a tank. Dunno about the healer part, but prolly that is not needed as well.
Of course Dead mines is a low level dungeon in the content of a 7 years old game, that has been modified to permit players to rush through it quite fastly, so the comparison is not very appropriate, but still even so the FIRST dungeon of a MMO is usually quite easy.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
As I have told you before I dont agree. Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2. IF the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and smart and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity yet.
Actually, they aren't there in GW2. Why? Because no class is dedicated to healing or damage mitigation.
Show me the dedicated healer in GW2. I'd love to see it.
I was a great dedicated healer in beta pvp with my elementalist... try again...
Oh really?
Please, tell us more about this class that is supposedly dedicated towards just healing.
And here I was thinking that they only have a couple small heals that barely healed a fraction of someone's life. Seriously, I'd love to hear about your epic dedicated healing from the elementalist class! Do you have any videos of this, I'd love seeing you dominating sPvP on your dedicated healer.
My Guardians build in PvP we were taking down 3-4 people at a time with just the 2 of us. Check it out:
To further the discussion past the typical trinity definitions bump ;
I contest that the trinity is the natural evolution of the most effective form of group makeup. So naturally as gamers we are going to build our groups based upon it as it offers the most effective gains. I think most people are going to be playing whichever profession they like, but I think there will always be a trinityesque role for each player in that group to fill if simply left only to playstyle alone.
As I have told you before I dont agree. Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2. IF the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and smart and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity yet.
Actually, they aren't there in GW2. Why? Because no class is dedicated to healing or damage mitigation.
Show me the dedicated healer in GW2. I'd love to see it.
I was a great dedicated healer in beta pvp with my elementalist... try again...
Oh really?
Please, tell us more about this class that is supposedly dedicated towards just healing.
And here I was thinking that they only have a couple small heals that barely healed a fraction of someone's life. Seriously, I'd love to hear about your epic dedicated healing from the elementalist class! Do you have any videos of this, I'd love seeing you dominating sPvP on your dedicated healer.
I'm sorry but between combos and the elementalist kit there was no small healing, there was literally making it impossible for teams to do anything when a healer focused ele was in the area... no amount of cc or coordinated burst damage even came close to the rate of healing that can be set up.
Originally posted by Dfix
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Originally posted by Dfix
Originally posted by RobertDinh
No the trinity isn't broken, when you are up against easy pve you never had to worry about the trinity in any game.
I wish people could contribute to the conversation instead of blurting out this kind of garbage.
Thank you for making yourself look like a complete tool by having no idea what you're talking about.
I do believe they do a good job with doing away with the trinity. On one hand I'm glad to see it go, on the other I will probably still play a game with it beause I do enjoy it.
Garbage? You are trying to argue that they did away with the trinity, when in reality all they did was make a game so easy that you could do whatever you wanted and faceroll through it.
It would be like someone saying the trinity wasn't required in WoW because they could 5dps a 5man dungeon.
I've played FFXI for 8 years now. I know a challenge when I see it. I have also played through Catacombs with Devs in the beta. You on the other hand have probably done neither. I don't think I really need to say anymore.
Are you really trying to use ffxi as your credibility... and then making gross assumptions towards a much more experienced gamer?
If you think gw2 pve is challenging you've already discredited yourself, because any top progression pver from any of the great mmos goes through it like a hot knife through butter.
I love this game dont get me wrong but the trinity is far from dead in GW2. Its jusy dressed differently. Everyone take turn tanking, healing and DPSing. All 3 roles are there!!!! Dont be fooled. Its just dressed up in a new package and way more fun then LFG.
Last time I'll explain this lol
If everyone is doing all 3 roles at different times throughout the course of a single fight - which they do in GW2 - then there are no "dedicated" roles - which means with no dedicated roles - there is no trinity as trinity = dedicated party roles of tank, heal, dps.
*sigh*
As I have told you before I dont agree. Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2. IF the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and smart and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity yet.
You're simply defining what the trinity means differently than everyone else. No combat oriented MMO will ever be without damage (the removal of the enemy's health), healing (the restoration of an ally's health), and tanking (the mitigation of or avoidance of enemy damage.) Nobody is saying GW2 is without these combat concepts. You obviously have to deal damage; you obviously lose health which must be restored; and, if you wish to succeed, you must obviously do your best to avoid taking damage in the first place, cycle blinds, snares, knockbacks, dodges etc.
Whenever anyone claims GW2 has abandoned the trinity, they mean--and only mean--that individual players will no longer be locked into performing any one of these roles exclusively. In fact, in some cases, it's simply not possible to do so. The player who only tries to use the few healing abilities at his disposal will be utterly worthless. He just wouldn't contribute enough to the group. If players only focus on dealing damage with complete disregard to the other 2 concepts, the group is doomed to fail. And one person can simply not mitigate enough damage for everyone; in short, nobody can tank for others. Damage mitigation falls on each individual to a very large extent.
This changes everything. Combat becomes much more involved, fluid and reactive for every single person involved.
As I have told you before I dont agree. Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2. IF the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and smart and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity yet.
Actually, they aren't there in GW2. Why? Because no class is dedicated to healing or damage mitigation.
Show me the dedicated healer in GW2. I'd love to see it.
You dont need to have anyoine dedicated at a single role for it to be in the game. The roles are shared across the team but the trinity is still in play. What makes a Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2 but just shared accross the team. If the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity. All 3 roles are in GW2, Im a fan and love the game but as a MMOer who has been MMOing 14 years its easy to see the basic elements that make up GW2.
You're confusing 'the trinity' with function.
'The Holy Trinity' specifically refers to the 'tank, dps, healer' model presented in earlier games. Just because a game has heals, damage, and damage mitigation doesn't mean it has a holy trinity.
Hell, battlefield 3 has all of those things, but I don't think anyone in their right mind would say the game is a holy trinity model.
Again, 'the holy trinity' refers specifically to the class mechanics of needing a dedicated tank, healer, and dps in order to complete content. Are there certain aspects of the trinity still in the game, of course there is, but the mechanics are completely different. The lack of threat mechanics, and dedicated healing alone are 2 central pillars of the holy trinity system that are gone.
- Having 3 roles does not mean something has a 'holy trinity' model. It just doesn't. It'd be like saying trine has a holy trinity. Or that planetside has a holy trinity.
Comments
You can't take much hits and you certainly can't spam heals. Post a video of them doing so to prove me wrong. I'm going by personal experience with this as we briefly tried it versus some champion mobs (ironically I did better solo versus those mobs on my ranger than I did in a group).
Garbage? You are trying to argue that they did away with the trinity, when in reality all they did was make a game so easy that you could do whatever you wanted and faceroll through it.
It would be like someone saying the trinity wasn't required in WoW because they could 5dps a 5man dungeon.
Actually, they aren't there in GW2. Why? Because no class is dedicated to healing or damage mitigation.
Show me the dedicated healer in GW2. I'd love to see it.
Anyone else getting a connectivity issue to the website http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/breaking-the-trinity/ ?? I've even done a few website ping tests and all them came back as Packets Lost with no connectivity.
you are talking about raid content - not dungeon group content
your "era" didnt have any undefeated dungeon bosses
I come from the same era and dont share your memories
EQ2 fan sites
I was a great dedicated healer in beta pvp with my elementalist... try again...
You probably weren't at the top of progression then eh? In my era our dungeons were part of the persistent world.
That isn't what a trinity system is. The trinity system is support, control and DPS. Control = tanking. A tank class is like a 100% long lasting CC that keeps all the mobs attention. It isn't just "damage mitigation", you have to control what is going on or a tank is completely worthless.
Support is what is supporting the control/tank and keeping them alive. As well as maybe offering secondary buffs/debuffs/CC for the group to use. It isn't simply just "healing".
The problem is, the main focus of groups is and always was the tank and the healer. DPS was pretty much always a dime a dozen and an afterthought until enrage timers came into play.
GW2 most definitely has support, control and damage builds, but it is most definitely different than other games. You don't have one person standing there taking all the hits. That simply can't happen. You will die eventually unless you have like your entire team rotate spamming heals on you. GW2 feels more like everyone kind of performs support/control/DPS depending on the situation, and your role can change dynamically during a fight. If one person is taking a lot of damage, they will dodge/move back ... someone else will start taking the hits. A "DPS" might ease up on damage and switch to a supportive role and give the hurt player some buffs/protection/healing.
GW2 is a game where all the roles can perform all the duties. And this is all dynamically changing in real time. Everyone is DPS'ing, everyone is Supporting, everyone is helping Control the fights as best as they can. There simply isn't just one person only performing one duty ... as that simply can't happen in the game (especially with how long some of the CD's are).
I've played FFXI for 8 years now. I know a challenge when I see it. I have also played through Catacombs with Devs in the beta. You on the other hand have probably done neither. I don't think I really need to say anymore.
This is possible in WoW too, as long peeps are well equipped and know what they are doing.
Anyway, the good thing about GW2 is that the game mechanics do not requires the Holy Trinity which means that we no longer have to wait ages for an Healer or a Tank to start a Dungeon.
I LOVE the Trinity, but in casual games like GW2 I don't mind if it is not there, and GW2 does a good job at it.
Oh really?
Please, tell us more about this class that is supposedly dedicated towards just healing.
And here I was thinking that they only have a couple small heals that barely healed a fraction of someone's life. Seriously, I'd love to hear about your epic dedicated healing from the elementalist class! Do you have any videos of this, I'd love seeing you dominating sPvP on your dedicated healer.
name a boss from your era that took weeks for a single group to take down
EQ2 fan sites
Best advice for this thread is to ignore Robert.
You dont need to have anyoine dedicated at a single role for it to be in the game. The roles are shared across the team but the trinity is still in play. What makes a Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2 but just shared accross the team. If the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity. All 3 roles are in GW2, Im a fan and love the game but as a MMOer who has been MMOing 14 years its easy to see the basic elements that make up GW2.
Like I said the mechanics relating to the typical "tank" role are interesting but it can still be done. Most of you folks think that simply because I believe you can in fact run a sucessful trinityesque group that it means we disregard normal Gw2 rules such as dodging and avoiding damage, or that we spam 4 water eles on a guardian. There are applicable ways to run a trinityesque group within the system that Gw2 requires, thats the message.
I'll repeat it so people stop with " Have fun tanking damage " comments, just because I have a dedicated tank in a dungeon doesn't mean he is going to be absorbing damage he doesn't have to.
Anyway, the good thing about GW2 is that the game mechanics do not requires the Holy Trinity which means that we no longer have to wait ages for an Healer or a Tank to start a Dungeon.
I LOVE the Trinity, but in casual games like GW2 I don't mind if it is not there, and GW2 does a good job at it.
Untill such time you 'apply' for groups and they say: "sorry, we need a support class"
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Gear issues are abolished.. AT LEVEL 80.
But I have the impression you knew this already. What the video refers to is that they had bad gear for the level of the dungeon, something that is present in any game with levels.
The video, however, did not impress me much. As others have said, it is not so impressive to not use trinity in low level dungeons.
Now I have no idea what dungeon this is, but fairly low level probably, so I would compare it to Dead Mines, that is quite easy to do nowadays without a tank. Dunno about the healer part, but prolly that is not needed as well.
Of course Dead mines is a low level dungeon in the content of a 7 years old game, that has been modified to permit players to rush through it quite fastly, so the comparison is not very appropriate, but still even so the FIRST dungeon of a MMO is usually quite easy.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Gear still matters up to a point. If you are weaing level 10 gear while trying to do a level 30 dungeon then yeah it is going to be an issue.
My Guardians build in PvP we were taking down 3-4 people at a time with just the 2 of us. Check it out:
http://www.gw2builds.org/view/511159/hot_team_defence_mace_shield_spec_w_video
Build in action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wsbavY2Q2M&feature=plcp
Healing role is very much alive in GW2, so is damage mitigation and of corse DPS. Its just done differently so no one needs to LFG!!!
To further the discussion past the typical trinity definitions bump ;
I contest that the trinity is the natural evolution of the most effective form of group makeup. So naturally as gamers we are going to build our groups based upon it as it offers the most effective gains. I think most people are going to be playing whichever profession they like, but I think there will always be a trinityesque role for each player in that group to fill if simply left only to playstyle alone.
I'm sorry but between combos and the elementalist kit there was no small healing, there was literally making it impossible for teams to do anything when a healer focused ele was in the area... no amount of cc or coordinated burst damage even came close to the rate of healing that can be set up.
Are you really trying to use ffxi as your credibility... and then making gross assumptions towards a much more experienced gamer?
If you think gw2 pve is challenging you've already discredited yourself, because any top progression pver from any of the great mmos goes through it like a hot knife through butter.
Everyone seems to forget the Guardian when they discuss heals, it is truely the healing class of Gw2 ...... and its heals aren't paltry.
Link doesn't work for me.
would've been interesting.
You're simply defining what the trinity means differently than everyone else. No combat oriented MMO will ever be without damage (the removal of the enemy's health), healing (the restoration of an ally's health), and tanking (the mitigation of or avoidance of enemy damage.) Nobody is saying GW2 is without these combat concepts. You obviously have to deal damage; you obviously lose health which must be restored; and, if you wish to succeed, you must obviously do your best to avoid taking damage in the first place, cycle blinds, snares, knockbacks, dodges etc.
Whenever anyone claims GW2 has abandoned the trinity, they mean--and only mean--that individual players will no longer be locked into performing any one of these roles exclusively. In fact, in some cases, it's simply not possible to do so. The player who only tries to use the few healing abilities at his disposal will be utterly worthless. He just wouldn't contribute enough to the group. If players only focus on dealing damage with complete disregard to the other 2 concepts, the group is doomed to fail. And one person can simply not mitigate enough damage for everyone; in short, nobody can tank for others. Damage mitigation falls on each individual to a very large extent.
This changes everything. Combat becomes much more involved, fluid and reactive for every single person involved.
Boy: Do not try and play a role. That's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Boy: There are no roles.
Neo: There are no roles?
Boy: Then you'll see that it is not roles you play, it is only your skills.
Oderint, dum metuant.
You're confusing 'the trinity' with function.
'The Holy Trinity' specifically refers to the 'tank, dps, healer' model presented in earlier games. Just because a game has heals, damage, and damage mitigation doesn't mean it has a holy trinity.
Hell, battlefield 3 has all of those things, but I don't think anyone in their right mind would say the game is a holy trinity model.
Again, 'the holy trinity' refers specifically to the class mechanics of needing a dedicated tank, healer, and dps in order to complete content. Are there certain aspects of the trinity still in the game, of course there is, but the mechanics are completely different. The lack of threat mechanics, and dedicated healing alone are 2 central pillars of the holy trinity system that are gone.
- Having 3 roles does not mean something has a 'holy trinity' model. It just doesn't. It'd be like saying trine has a holy trinity. Or that planetside has a holy trinity.