For a western company, any time is too late. There is only ONE title that went from Subscription to ACTUAL F2P and that was DDO.
Every single other title has gone PAYTRAP, which is not F2P which is why NOT ONE SINGLE PAYTRAP game has made NEAR what the big F2P games have made. Its all half-assed, half-hearted BS...they dont even do the F2P shops right.
F2P players wont fall into the paytrap of subscribing to a game to unlock everything, it defeats the entire PURPOSE of playing a F2P game and developers are DELUSIONAL to think they will get more money from tricking a few 10 thousand people to subscribe to their already failed subscription based game.
These companies missed their mark with a subscription only to miss it again by targetting F2P players with a sub-trap model. Well, stupid is what stupid does.
"Just as DCUO thrived far better as a F2P offering, so too will SWTOR in the long run."
Pretty sure that there is no evidence of DCUO thriving as f2p; more people initially for sure but subsequently - after the next game goes f2p and the one after. No evidence that SWTOR will either - and it was clearly not designed to be f2p (EA spoke at length about how it was subs that were critixal and how the team would be kept on etc.).
Zynga's results are clear evidence that f2p is not a sure thing; lots of people play and don't pay. And, imo, SWTOR's biggest asset - the class stories - will be free.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
I think if they had started SWTOR from the ground up as a free to play instead of going with a sub base model, which was already showing signs of failing years before the game had come out, they would have been better off. Now I see that ESO may be making the same mistake, but they still have time to change it up during development before they put it on the market.
I would much rather play SWG over SWTOR any day F2P. Who knows what underhanded deals were cut among Lucas Arts, EA, Bioware and SOE.my feeling is that LA made out like a bandit, EA probably also came out ahead, followed by SOE. Leaving Bioware to holding the bag, and thousands of SWG fans were thrown out with the bath water. Now there are tens of thousands of SWTOR fans who, for some reason I don't understand, it's true, there actually are people out their who enjoy SWTOR - but perhaps they might have to consider that F2P is the first death knoll for their game. I hope not - I wouldn't want others to have to go through process of losing their beloved game. Although, perhaps SWTOR fans rent nearly as fanatical as us SWG fans. But maybe F2P isn't a death knoll; look at LOTRO - that game is lots of fun and f2p seems to have improved it. Ultimately, it just seems that the fans and/or paying customers are the ones that lose in these business deal shenanigans.
Why Doesn't MMORPG get rid of all these Ads and go F2Read? If what you write is good, I'm sure somebody will pay for it. Shoe doesn’t fit so well on the other foot does it? Everyone expects to get paid for their services. The problem with F2P is that so many people think it really means they get to play absolutely free and nobody has to pay.
You have the players that whine about P2W ruining their PvP. They will only tolerate “Vanity” items being sold on the cash shop, knowing full well they will never buy any “Vanity” item or anything off the cash shop. Well I say right next to those “Vanity” items should be PvP. Oh you can be flagged for PvP for free on a F2P game, but you can’t fight back unless you buy a month worth of PvP time. If buying all these PvP options ala cart is getting too expensive, then get it all for a monthly sub.
Now I am not saying that SWTOR is a quality product or that consumers should not expect quality from devs and pubs. SWTOR was a B or B- product that should be developed into a A product. Players should be expected to pay for A quality products. Players should also expect to try a product for free to determine if it is a quality product.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
To be honest, in today's market with the plethora of games available the subscription model makes less and less sense. For me, one of those who bought/subbed at the beginning I had fun for...oh, about a month. No hard feelings about the investment, that's about average shelf life for me on new titles the last several years so expectations were met. However, with the game being subscription based, and having already played through the 'bulk' of the content levelling two characters to the cap, I am extremely unlikely to ever look at it again. Going F2P, whether you consider it a fail or not, gives the chance however slight that I may return to the game risk-free, and if I find the situation has improved, perhaps invest more money at some point down the line.
I'll use LOTRO as an example - I played in the beta and for a few months in at release. Had a blast but capped & did all the content really. I'll add that I'm not a power-gamer, I work full time so my playtime is mostly limited to weekends, and in a few months, I was 'done'. However, on two occasions I have gone back to LOTRO for a 'few month' stint, during which time they've gotten more money out of me each time which if not for the F2p accessibility, would have been money they'd never seen.
Should it have gone F2P to begin with? What does going F2P achieve? It depends on what your goal is, really. If you want the quick investment recoup, probably not. However if you want longevity and a consistent playerbase sooner or later you'll have to either a) pony up monthly content updates that make people feel they are getting their moneys worth and stay interested or b) allow f2p access because even if the majority of people playing never spend a cent, their presence affects the game community/economy and can make the experience better for everyone as far as groups, instancing, guilds, etc.
My personal preference to be honest is f2p or even free trial. I'm not likely to drop £50 on a box, sight unseen, unless its something I've been following the development of for quite some time ala SWTOR. If its for me, I have no problem paying out a monthly sub or even minitransactions for 'stuff' and to be honest, F2p Games usually get a LOT more money out of me than a sub game as I'm very likely to spend more than £15/month on extras.
LOTROs model I feel, is good. I don't want to sub so the only thing I miss out on is pvp which I could care less about. Everything else is purchasable and once unlocked, permanent. No pressure to pay a monthly sub on something, and by extension, the feeling of 'obligation to play' because I'm paying a monthly fee on it. I unlock the content I want, skip the rest, and through gameplay you can earn the same lotro points to unlock things, which keeps the content accessible to people who may not have the financial ability to invest.
In the olden days when the market was not so saturated, I remember happily paying my monthly sub to Asheron's Call, but in those days there were epic monthly world-changing updates and it really felt that there was something 'new' from month to month. Nowadays new content is always over some distant horizon and its much easier to unsubscribe and find something else.
Gaming? That's not gaming! That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...
I still play the game. And still plan on subbing as well. $15 is more than reasonable from how much I play the game.
I know people love to hate this game, especially on sites like these. But its not that bad and I haven't had more fun in a "Themepark" MMO ever. Its a great game to play casual, which luckily is the type of gaming I have to play now that I have morethings in my life going on.
To my point, I think that SWTOR going FTP is more of an indictment against a sub model then how good SWTOR is or isn't.
I'm surprised that many initially subscription-based MMOs don't use Eve Online's system of a detailed free trial period to let players get their feet wet, and if they're enticed they take the dive in and buy a subscription. From what I know a lot of players of F2P-anything want to milk as much fun as they can out of a game without paying a cent, at the expense of the developers, and go by the mentality "Let some other poor sap pay for it". But nothing is truly free, and when the "milkers" as it were then demand more content without having paid anything into the game, their demands aren't really valid.
Personally I really like the full subscription with a proper trial period model. You get to test stuff without wasting your money, and if you like what you see you can pay a normally minor fee and get all the game content, and the game developer has a fully predictable income stream from the subscriptions instead of a pot-luck F2P-with-cash-shop model. I know there are some full subscription games that don't give a free trial period and I find that completely beyond moronic.
Comments
For a western company, any time is too late. There is only ONE title that went from Subscription to ACTUAL F2P and that was DDO.
Every single other title has gone PAYTRAP, which is not F2P which is why NOT ONE SINGLE PAYTRAP game has made NEAR what the big F2P games have made. Its all half-assed, half-hearted BS...they dont even do the F2P shops right.
F2P players wont fall into the paytrap of subscribing to a game to unlock everything, it defeats the entire PURPOSE of playing a F2P game and developers are DELUSIONAL to think they will get more money from tricking a few 10 thousand people to subscribe to their already failed subscription based game.
These companies missed their mark with a subscription only to miss it again by targetting F2P players with a sub-trap model. Well, stupid is what stupid does.
"Just as DCUO thrived far better as a F2P offering, so too will SWTOR in the long run."
Pretty sure that there is no evidence of DCUO thriving as f2p; more people initially for sure but subsequently - after the next game goes f2p and the one after. No evidence that SWTOR will either - and it was clearly not designed to be f2p (EA spoke at length about how it was subs that were critixal and how the team would be kept on etc.).
Zynga's results are clear evidence that f2p is not a sure thing; lots of people play and don't pay. And, imo, SWTOR's biggest asset - the class stories - will be free.
9000 .... years is too soon. imo
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Why Doesn't MMORPG get rid of all these Ads and go F2Read? If what you write is good, I'm sure somebody will pay for it. Shoe doesn’t fit so well on the other foot does it? Everyone expects to get paid for their services. The problem with F2P is that so many people think it really means they get to play absolutely free and nobody has to pay.
You have the players that whine about P2W ruining their PvP. They will only tolerate “Vanity” items being sold on the cash shop, knowing full well they will never buy any “Vanity” item or anything off the cash shop. Well I say right next to those “Vanity” items should be PvP. Oh you can be flagged for PvP for free on a F2P game, but you can’t fight back unless you buy a month worth of PvP time. If buying all these PvP options ala cart is getting too expensive, then get it all for a monthly sub.
Now I am not saying that SWTOR is a quality product or that consumers should not expect quality from devs and pubs. SWTOR was a B or B- product that should be developed into a A product. Players should be expected to pay for A quality products. Players should also expect to try a product for free to determine if it is a quality product.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
It is Simple:
If a game is good it is worth paying the subscription fee.
To be honest, in today's market with the plethora of games available the subscription model makes less and less sense. For me, one of those who bought/subbed at the beginning I had fun for...oh, about a month. No hard feelings about the investment, that's about average shelf life for me on new titles the last several years so expectations were met. However, with the game being subscription based, and having already played through the 'bulk' of the content levelling two characters to the cap, I am extremely unlikely to ever look at it again. Going F2P, whether you consider it a fail or not, gives the chance however slight that I may return to the game risk-free, and if I find the situation has improved, perhaps invest more money at some point down the line.
I'll use LOTRO as an example - I played in the beta and for a few months in at release. Had a blast but capped & did all the content really. I'll add that I'm not a power-gamer, I work full time so my playtime is mostly limited to weekends, and in a few months, I was 'done'. However, on two occasions I have gone back to LOTRO for a 'few month' stint, during which time they've gotten more money out of me each time which if not for the F2p accessibility, would have been money they'd never seen.
Should it have gone F2P to begin with? What does going F2P achieve? It depends on what your goal is, really. If you want the quick investment recoup, probably not. However if you want longevity and a consistent playerbase sooner or later you'll have to either a) pony up monthly content updates that make people feel they are getting their moneys worth and stay interested or b) allow f2p access because even if the majority of people playing never spend a cent, their presence affects the game community/economy and can make the experience better for everyone as far as groups, instancing, guilds, etc.
My personal preference to be honest is f2p or even free trial. I'm not likely to drop £50 on a box, sight unseen, unless its something I've been following the development of for quite some time ala SWTOR. If its for me, I have no problem paying out a monthly sub or even minitransactions for 'stuff' and to be honest, F2p Games usually get a LOT more money out of me than a sub game as I'm very likely to spend more than £15/month on extras.
LOTROs model I feel, is good. I don't want to sub so the only thing I miss out on is pvp which I could care less about. Everything else is purchasable and once unlocked, permanent. No pressure to pay a monthly sub on something, and by extension, the feeling of 'obligation to play' because I'm paying a monthly fee on it. I unlock the content I want, skip the rest, and through gameplay you can earn the same lotro points to unlock things, which keeps the content accessible to people who may not have the financial ability to invest.
In the olden days when the market was not so saturated, I remember happily paying my monthly sub to Asheron's Call, but in those days there were epic monthly world-changing updates and it really felt that there was something 'new' from month to month. Nowadays new content is always over some distant horizon and its much easier to unsubscribe and find something else.
Gaming? That's not gaming!
That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...
I still play the game. And still plan on subbing as well. $15 is more than reasonable from how much I play the game.
I know people love to hate this game, especially on sites like these. But its not that bad and I haven't had more fun in a "Themepark" MMO ever. Its a great game to play casual, which luckily is the type of gaming I have to play now that I have morethings in my life going on.
To my point, I think that SWTOR going FTP is more of an indictment against a sub model then how good SWTOR is or isn't.
I'm surprised that many initially subscription-based MMOs don't use Eve Online's system of a detailed free trial period to let players get their feet wet, and if they're enticed they take the dive in and buy a subscription. From what I know a lot of players of F2P-anything want to milk as much fun as they can out of a game without paying a cent, at the expense of the developers, and go by the mentality "Let some other poor sap pay for it". But nothing is truly free, and when the "milkers" as it were then demand more content without having paid anything into the game, their demands aren't really valid.
Personally I really like the full subscription with a proper trial period model. You get to test stuff without wasting your money, and if you like what you see you can pay a normally minor fee and get all the game content, and the game developer has a fully predictable income stream from the subscriptions instead of a pot-luck F2P-with-cash-shop model. I know there are some full subscription games that don't give a free trial period and I find that completely beyond moronic.
Where's the any key?