What I have read from this forums, in majority of posts, main reason against holy trinity is LFG?! IMHO this is not argument at all, it's pure convenience. Majority of players hate to take group responsibility to heal or are scared to take lead and tank, to learn every dungeon and encounter, what they really want is easy run without any responsibility and secure shiny loot.
I'm not against trinity, also not against any other system as long as such provides diversity and distinctive role/profession, but I’m really confused when some players hate trinity and don’t have any real argument aside subjective ones.
After mass popularization of MMO-s, every new game tends to minimize those roles, it's the natural process if you want to reach mass mediocrity population, at the end of this process, mainstream MMO-s will only have jack of all trades and master of none type of role/professions. Something when you have left only pawns and than pretend to play chess, with only two options: move and capture.
So tell me your reason against holy trinity, real reason pls?
My main argument is that tanking makes combat boring and predictable.
All mobs are seriously retarded, even dragons, wizards and other one would assume to be smart.
In pen and player RPGs combat is a lot about tactics and no DM would let the players just tank the mobs there. That it is hard to find certain roles is not really a problem for me.
Another reason is that trinity combat makes all games using it be rather similar.
Trinity combat was invented in Meridian 59, a game made a couple on inexperienced guys with a low budget for fun. To think that they accidentely stumbled on the ultimate combat system seems very unlikely. So my third argument against trinity is that just using it have stopped MMOs from evolving.
MMO combat should be tactical with a lot of focus on using the enviroment to your advantage, together with quick thinking and constantly noticing what is happening around you. It should not just be about having quick reactions but it should neither be about standing still and using a macro either.
There are many possibilities but as long as everyone is more or less using the same mechanics all MMOs will feel like M59/EQ/Wow and that is bad news for new games. Most common reason to not stay in the new game around here is that it just feels like Wow.
Of course, only allowing three classes to heal out of about 15 or so meant there was always a huge shortage of healers, which gets back to the first problem people have. Something combining RIFT's flexibility with the larget variety of roles found in EQ1 would be perfect for me.
That's really not the reason there is a huge shortage of healers for dungeons. I usually complain about how they have screwed up the hunter class, but i have to say, since Cata came out. they really have destroyed healing for many a healer.
What I have read from this forums, in majority of posts, main reason against holy trinity is LFG?! IMHO this is not argument at all, it's pure convenience. Majority of players hate to take group responsibility to heal or are scared to take lead and tank, to learn every dungeon and encounter, what they really want is easy run without any responsibility and secure shiny loot.
I'm not against trinity, also not against any other system as long as such provides diversity and distinctive role/profession, but I’m really confused when some players hate trinity and don’t have any real argument aside subjective ones.
After mass popularization of MMO-s, every new game tends to minimize those roles, it's the natural process if you want to reach mass mediocrity population, at the end of this process, mainstream MMO-s will only have jack of all trades and master of none type of role/professions. Something when you have left only pawns and than pretend to play chess, with only two options: move and capture.
So tell me your reason against holy trinity, real reason pls?
Hey listen, if you have lots of friends and plenty of time then you may not even have to LFG. As a Tank or a healer your time standing around LFG is also fairly small.
For the majority of players though, standing around a central hub, or waiting for long periods of time in a dungeon finder is stupid, asanine and so "yesterday". The other reason is 100% of the groups success is tied up in the tank and healer role. in fact you could succeed with nothing but tanks and healers except for one small developmental roadblock...the enrage timer.
In GW2, all the responsibility is handled by all group members instead of only 2 people. Also You have to understand in pen and paper RPG's there werent specific roles. I recall doing days and weeks long campaigns in D&D with friends in the early 80's and none of us were required to be a tank or a healer.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
My argument against the holy trinity is this....a god who is both omnipotent and omnibenevolent should not permit the existence of evil or suffering. As evil and suffering exists there can be no god. If there is no god there can be no holy trinity. QED.
The reason behind the argument is lazy people that want things "NOW" that got pampered with WoW style of doing things solo, now, instantly.
Arguments like "family, job, etc" are just that.. if you don't have alot of time outside family and work, games should be the least of your worries, specially MMORPG's which were meant to be time consuming (a world within a world), they weren't originally meant for people with very limited "free time", they were meant for the hardcore gamers that wanted to spend alot of time in a fantasy world. They weren't meant for instant gratification either. Just like old PnP games like DnD, Cyberpunk, Twilight 2000, you couldn't possibly accomplish anything in a session of 2 hours..
No one ever cried about the trinity in EQ, some had gripes about finding groups, but at that time, it was part of the experience, finding the group.
It's just that the current generation of "gamers" has been brought up with everything in their hand or reach. The impatience is blinding.
The reason behind the argument is lazy people that want things "NOW" that got pampered with WoW style of doing things solo, now, instantly.
Arguments like "family, job, etc" are just that.. if you don't have alot of time outside family and work, games should be the least of your worries, specially MMORPG's which were meant to be time consuming (a world within a world), they weren't originally meant for people with very limited "free time", they were meant for the hardcore gamers that wanted to spend alot of time in a fantasy world.
No one ever cried about the trinity in EQ, some had gripes about finding groups, but at that time, it was part of the experience, finding the group.
It's just that the current generation of "gamers" has been brought up with everything in their hand or reach. The impatience is blinding.
That have really nothing to do with the trinity. If someone is lazy it is the devs that give us almost the exact same mecj'hanics in 99% of all games. Go back to last page and see why I don´t like the trinity, I assure you it have nothing to do with time.
The DPS don't matter at all, they aren't involved, really if the boss didn't have an enrage timer eventually the tank could take the bosses out.
This isn't the truth. You see, the DPS's role is to down the mob. If the DPS aren't dealing enough damage, it makes the tank have to tank longer which leads to less health, requiring more healing, the healer then has to heal longer which leads to less mana/power. I've been in many a group with shitty dps which ended in a wipe due to this fact. Due to the fact that people though DPS was a no-brianer.
That being said, I am looking forward to the chance to play some more Gw2 and experience the non-trinity play. I can't really say if I like/dislike it fairly without playing it more.
- Disolves teamwork (no, you standing on a spot spamming your rotation is not team work)
People are working alone on their own minigame and not together, the tank plays the agro game with the mob, the healer plays the i fill up bars game and dps plays the let's maximize macros and rotations games.
Unless the fights have gimmicks, trinity gameplay is playing alone.
The reason behind the argument is lazy people that want things "NOW" that got pampered with WoW style of doing things solo, now, instantly.
Arguments like "family, job, etc" are just that.. if you don't have alot of time outside family and work, games should be the least of your worries, specially MMORPG's which were meant to be time consuming (a world within a world), they weren't originally meant for people with very limited "free time", they were meant for the hardcore gamers that wanted to spend alot of time in a fantasy world.
No one ever cried about the trinity in EQ, some had gripes about finding groups, but at that time, it was part of the experience, finding the group.
It's just that the current generation of "gamers" has been brought up with everything in their hand or reach. The impatience is blinding.
That have really nothing to do with the trinity. If someone is lazy it is the devs that give us almost the exact same mecj'hanics in 99% of all games. Go back to last page and see why I don´t like the trinity, I assure you it have nothing to do with time.
Time is exactly the point 99% of times when talking about trinity.... "the time to get the groups together" the other 1% is people wanting to do everything with 1 character.
So tell me your reason against holy trinity, real reason pls?
Recently? Because it is all so boring and black and white. There seem to be no true hybrids anymore, or if there are they are just sub par. Before anyone pips up about WoW or Rift, they arent really hybrids anymore, they are just classes that can fill multiple but distinct roles.
The class dynamics in GW2 are simply fun. You pick a class because you like their style, not because they are the best at absorbing damage, or the best at outgoing heals. You pick it because you enjoy the way they fight.
And say what you want, it really can be annoying trying to do harder content that requires a specific setup and being unable to find anyone online with good enough gear to do the content. I love that GW2 is getting rid of that and putting the emphasis back on player skill and meaningful use of combat abilities rather than heal spamming and looking at a green bar.
I think RPG lovers and those who crave immersion like the trinity. Those that like more action-y games don't.
The role my character has in the trinity partly defines him. Adds to his uniqueness.
So again, its the difference between those who like mmorpg's and those who like action mmo's.
I don't think it should be an "argument" between the two. It's two different type of games. Two different types of players.
No one that likes immersion loves the trinity, it's the least immersive design possible, you're fighting an villain and yet he falls for some fat dude calling him names?
It also removes uniqueness from the classes, you're not "Gieger808 the ranger that can kite and have amazing pets" you're DPS and that's all you'll ever be.
This isn't the truth. You see, the DPS's role is to down the mob. If the DPS aren't dealing enough damage, it makes the tank have to tank longer which leads to less health, requiring more healing, the healer then has to heal longer which leads to less mana/power. I've been in many a group with shitty dps which ended in a wipe due to this fact. Due to the fact that people though DPS was a no-brianer.
That being said, I am looking forward to the chance to play some more Gw2 and experience the non-trinity play. I can't really say if I like/dislike it fairly without playing it more.
Well, it doesn´t promote more teamwork than any other model where you play in small groups at least.
I would still say its promoting less because in other system you need to keep a closer eye on the other players, here everyone is working by themselves except the healer. Already in GW1 all players must keep an eye out so the weaker players wont get killed since there is no taunts.
There is still group dynamics in trinity of course.
The reason behind the argument is lazy people that want things "NOW" that got pampered with WoW style of doing things solo, now, instantly.
Arguments like "family, job, etc" are just that.. if you don't have alot of time outside family and work, games should be the least of your worries, specially MMORPG's which were meant to be time consuming (a world within a world), they weren't originally meant for people with very limited "free time", they were meant for the hardcore gamers that wanted to spend alot of time in a fantasy world. They weren't meant for instant gratification either. Just like old PnP games like DnD, Cyberpunk, Twilight 2000, you couldn't possibly accomplish anything in a session of 2 hours..
No one ever cried about the trinity in EQ, some had gripes about finding groups, but at that time, it was part of the experience, finding the group.
It's just that the current generation of "gamers" has been brought up with everything in their hand or reach. The impatience is blinding.
They're meant for whoever is willing to pay to play/buy them. By your argument, I don't deserve to play an MMO as I have a wife, child and a good job. I don't deserve to jump into a fantasy world and get away from the pressues of work and family. I don't deserve to have fun with friends online as I only have an hour to devote as opposed to 40 hours a week. This is one of the more ridiculous things I've ever read and an insult to gaming. Games are for everyone, not just basement dwelling hardcore neck-beards. Though, they can play too...LOL
I think RPG lovers and those who crave immersion like the trinity. Those that like more action-y games don't.
The role my character has in the trinity partly defines him. Adds to his uniqueness.
So again, its the difference between those who like mmorpg's and those who like action mmo's.
I don't think it should be an "argument" between the two. It's two different type of games. Two different types of players.
Very valid points dear sir.
In a game where trinity is gone, there won't be alot of uniqueness in character (par the visible stuff), where as a specified class a gamers can either shine (and be invited to groups before others of the same class) or blow (a time for a reroll)
If you suck, you suck, maybe it's not the game for you.
I dont recall ever watching Lord of the Rings or any other blockbuster fantasy movie and see the holy trinity. Until Peter Jackson utilyzes the Trinity when making movies then count me not impressed when gaming studios use it.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Time is exactly the point 99% of times when talking about trinity.... "the time to get the groups together" the other 1% is people wanting to do everything with 1 character.
You could have read my first post, but fine.
Yeah, a lot of people are whinning about time but it is far less than 99%.
In fact most people I know that dislike the trinity does it because it makes mobs stupid, combat easier and more predictable and all trinity MMOs more or less feel just the same.
The reason behind the argument is lazy people that want things "NOW" that got pampered with WoW style of doing things solo, now, instantly.
Arguments like "family, job, etc" are just that.. if you don't have alot of time outside family and work, games should be the least of your worries, specially MMORPG's which were meant to be time consuming (a world within a world), they weren't originally meant for people with very limited "free time", they were meant for the hardcore gamers that wanted to spend alot of time in a fantasy world. They weren't meant for instant gratification either. Just like old PnP games like DnD, Cyberpunk, Twilight 2000, you couldn't possibly accomplish anything in a session of 2 hours..
No one ever cried about the trinity in EQ, some had gripes about finding groups, but at that time, it was part of the experience, finding the group.
It's just that the current generation of "gamers" has been brought up with everything in their hand or reach. The impatience is blinding.
They're meant for whoever is willing to pay to play/buy them. By your argument, I don't deserve to play an MMO as I have a wife, child and a good job. I don't deserve to jump into a fantasy world and get away from the pressues of work and family. I don't deserve to have fun with friends online as I only have an hour to devote as opposed to 40 hours a week. This is one of the more ridiculous things I've ever read and an insult to gaming. Games are for everyone, not just basement dwelling hardcore neck-beards. Though, they can play too...LOL
Ofcourse you do "deserve" to play them, but you also have to bare in mind that the games that aren't meant to be instant gratification arent that, thusly i consider you don't have the right to complain about it either.
If i know before i get a game that i might not have the time to put into it, i won't buy it, but i wont cry about it being such a game either.
Time is exactly the point 99% of times when talking about trinity.... "the time to get the groups together" the other 1% is people wanting to do everything with 1 character.
You could have read my first post, but fine.
Yeah, a lot of people are whinning about time but it is far less than 99%.
In fact most people I know that dislike the trinity does it because it makes mobs stupid, combat easier and more predictable and all trinity MMOs more or less feel just the same.
Trinity = organized and predictable combat (SWTOR, WoW fex.)
1) force players to LFG - preparing to have fun instead of having fun
2) force players to have fixed roles (thats the holy part).
3) makes players play different games- healers plays whack a mole, tanks maintain high threat and so on
4) makes for a long stale boring combat where most skills are rotated in same sequense again and again
5) reduce the roles of control, damage and support to the most simple forms possible. Threat is a simple subclass of controll that can be so much more, healing is a subclass of support that can be so much more, and dps is simply all what damage comes down to when locked in the holy trinity setup.
6) is often used to set up challange based on the lvl of your equipment and not your personal skills. (gear grind)
7) does often make players play the UI and not the game !
I think RPG lovers and those who crave immersion like the trinity. Those that like more action-y games don't.
The role my character has in the trinity partly defines him. Adds to his uniqueness.
So again, its the difference between those who like mmorpg's and those who like action mmo's.
I don't think it should be an "argument" between the two. It's two different type of games. Two different types of players.
Very valid points dear sir.
In a game where trinity is gone, there won't be alot of uniqueness in character (par the visible stuff), where as a specified class a gamers can either shine (and be invited to groups before others of the same class) or blow (a time for a reroll)
If you suck, you suck, maybe it's not the game for you.
Agreed.
I also think that maybe those who complain about how difficult it makes to get a group aren't as social as one needs to be in a mmorpg. Nothing like logging on and getting a tell saying, "Thank god! Can you run something right now?".
Soloers and anti-social people WOULD hate the trinity if they don't know alot of people and get a good reputation.
Again, mmorpg's and mmo's cater to different types.
I disagree. The people who don't like trinity or just want something different are not necessarily antisocial. They just don't want to be pigeonholed into a single role. Rpg'ers should also embrace no trinity system because it offers your character more freedom.
I think RPG lovers and those who crave immersion like the trinity. Those that like more action-y games don't.
The role my character has in the trinity partly defines him. Adds to his uniqueness.
So again, its the difference between those who like mmorpg's and those who like action mmo's.
I don't think it should be an "argument" between the two. It's two different type of games. Two different types of players.
Very valid points dear sir.
In a game where trinity is gone, there won't be alot of uniqueness in character (par the visible stuff), where as a specified class a gamers can either shine (and be invited to groups before others of the same class) or blow (a time for a reroll)
If you suck, you suck, maybe it's not the game for you.
Agreed.
I also think that maybe those who complain about how difficult it makes to get a group aren't as social as one needs to be in a mmorpg. Nothing like logging on and getting a tell saying, "Thank god! Can you run something right now?".
Soloers and anti-social people WOULD hate the trinity if they don't know alot of people and get a good reputation.
Again, mmorpg's and mmo's cater to different types.
You get that tell because the other 4-5 people have been waiting a stupidly long time for someone to log on who can fill the specific role they need. Yes it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside to be needed, but really, its just annoying for most people involved and it leads to people playing classes they like less just to get a group done. By the way, sorry to burst your bubble, but its not that you have a great reputation, you are just the right class for the job.
Most classes other than healer and tank are optional anyway, sometimes even the tank is optional. I can solo all sorts of current group content on my Shadowknight and Mystic on EQ2 because tanks and priests have become so powerful due to the trinity. Hell, I can even duo raid trash with my flatmate for easy loot just as a healer and a tank. I find games with a trinity lead to people multi-boxing or duoing zones instead of running them with full groups, which is far less social than a game that requires active participation from everyone, not just healers.
Comments
My main argument is that tanking makes combat boring and predictable.
All mobs are seriously retarded, even dragons, wizards and other one would assume to be smart.
In pen and player RPGs combat is a lot about tactics and no DM would let the players just tank the mobs there. That it is hard to find certain roles is not really a problem for me.
Another reason is that trinity combat makes all games using it be rather similar.
Trinity combat was invented in Meridian 59, a game made a couple on inexperienced guys with a low budget for fun. To think that they accidentely stumbled on the ultimate combat system seems very unlikely. So my third argument against trinity is that just using it have stopped MMOs from evolving.
MMO combat should be tactical with a lot of focus on using the enviroment to your advantage, together with quick thinking and constantly noticing what is happening around you. It should not just be about having quick reactions but it should neither be about standing still and using a macro either.
There are many possibilities but as long as everyone is more or less using the same mechanics all MMOs will feel like M59/EQ/Wow and that is bad news for new games. Most common reason to not stay in the new game around here is that it just feels like Wow.
That's really not the reason there is a huge shortage of healers for dungeons. I usually complain about how they have screwed up the hunter class, but i have to say, since Cata came out. they really have destroyed healing for many a healer.
Hey listen, if you have lots of friends and plenty of time then you may not even have to LFG. As a Tank or a healer your time standing around LFG is also fairly small.
For the majority of players though, standing around a central hub, or waiting for long periods of time in a dungeon finder is stupid, asanine and so "yesterday". The other reason is 100% of the groups success is tied up in the tank and healer role. in fact you could succeed with nothing but tanks and healers except for one small developmental roadblock...the enrage timer.
In GW2, all the responsibility is handled by all group members instead of only 2 people. Also You have to understand in pen and paper RPG's there werent specific roles. I recall doing days and weeks long campaigns in D&D with friends in the early 80's and none of us were required to be a tank or a healer.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
People say it promotes teamwork, but it doesn't.
The only teamwork is healer and tank.
The DPS don't matter at all, they aren't involved, really if the boss didn't have an enrage timer eventually the tank could take the bosses out.
Before you say that this doesn't happen, it's actually happened to me.
I was healing if RIFT, every DPS died, we managed to kill the lord tywl with a healer and a tank.
It's a broken system, it needs to be abolished.
The reason behind the argument is lazy people that want things "NOW" that got pampered with WoW style of doing things solo, now, instantly.
Arguments like "family, job, etc" are just that.. if you don't have alot of time outside family and work, games should be the least of your worries, specially MMORPG's which were meant to be time consuming (a world within a world), they weren't originally meant for people with very limited "free time", they were meant for the hardcore gamers that wanted to spend alot of time in a fantasy world. They weren't meant for instant gratification either. Just like old PnP games like DnD, Cyberpunk, Twilight 2000, you couldn't possibly accomplish anything in a session of 2 hours..
No one ever cried about the trinity in EQ, some had gripes about finding groups, but at that time, it was part of the experience, finding the group.
It's just that the current generation of "gamers" has been brought up with everything in their hand or reach. The impatience is blinding.
That have really nothing to do with the trinity. If someone is lazy it is the devs that give us almost the exact same mecj'hanics in 99% of all games. Go back to last page and see why I don´t like the trinity, I assure you it have nothing to do with time.
This isn't the truth. You see, the DPS's role is to down the mob. If the DPS aren't dealing enough damage, it makes the tank have to tank longer which leads to less health, requiring more healing, the healer then has to heal longer which leads to less mana/power. I've been in many a group with shitty dps which ended in a wipe due to this fact. Due to the fact that people though DPS was a no-brianer.
That being said, I am looking forward to the chance to play some more Gw2 and experience the non-trinity play. I can't really say if I like/dislike it fairly without playing it more.
Holy trinity is:
- Easy
- Boring
- Done over a million times.
- Makes players worst
- Makes gaming worst
- Promotes lazy design
- Promotes lazy players
- Disolves teamwork (no, you standing on a spot spamming your rotation is not team work)
People are working alone on their own minigame and not together, the tank plays the agro game with the mob, the healer plays the i fill up bars game and dps plays the let's maximize macros and rotations games.
Unless the fights have gimmicks, trinity gameplay is playing alone.
I think RPG lovers and those who crave immersion like the trinity. Those that like more action-y games don't.
The role my character has in the trinity partly defines him. Adds to his uniqueness.
So again, its the difference between those who like mmorpg's and those who like action mmo's.
I don't think it should be an "argument" between the two. It's two different type of games. Two different types of players.
Time is exactly the point 99% of times when talking about trinity.... "the time to get the groups together" the other 1% is people wanting to do everything with 1 character.
Recently? Because it is all so boring and black and white. There seem to be no true hybrids anymore, or if there are they are just sub par. Before anyone pips up about WoW or Rift, they arent really hybrids anymore, they are just classes that can fill multiple but distinct roles.
The class dynamics in GW2 are simply fun. You pick a class because you like their style, not because they are the best at absorbing damage, or the best at outgoing heals. You pick it because you enjoy the way they fight.
And say what you want, it really can be annoying trying to do harder content that requires a specific setup and being unable to find anyone online with good enough gear to do the content. I love that GW2 is getting rid of that and putting the emphasis back on player skill and meaningful use of combat abilities rather than heal spamming and looking at a green bar.
No one that likes immersion loves the trinity, it's the least immersive design possible, you're fighting an villain and yet he falls for some fat dude calling him names?
It also removes uniqueness from the classes, you're not "Gieger808 the ranger that can kite and have amazing pets" you're DPS and that's all you'll ever be.
Well, it doesn´t promote more teamwork than any other model where you play in small groups at least.
I would still say its promoting less because in other system you need to keep a closer eye on the other players, here everyone is working by themselves except the healer. Already in GW1 all players must keep an eye out so the weaker players wont get killed since there is no taunts.
There is still group dynamics in trinity of course.
They're meant for whoever is willing to pay to play/buy them. By your argument, I don't deserve to play an MMO as I have a wife, child and a good job. I don't deserve to jump into a fantasy world and get away from the pressues of work and family. I don't deserve to have fun with friends online as I only have an hour to devote as opposed to 40 hours a week. This is one of the more ridiculous things I've ever read and an insult to gaming. Games are for everyone, not just basement dwelling hardcore neck-beards. Though, they can play too...LOL
Very valid points dear sir.
In a game where trinity is gone, there won't be alot of uniqueness in character (par the visible stuff), where as a specified class a gamers can either shine (and be invited to groups before others of the same class) or blow (a time for a reroll)
If you suck, you suck, maybe it's not the game for you.
I dont recall ever watching Lord of the Rings or any other blockbuster fantasy movie and see the holy trinity. Until Peter Jackson utilyzes the Trinity when making movies then count me not impressed when gaming studios use it.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
You could have read my first post, but fine.
Yeah, a lot of people are whinning about time but it is far less than 99%.
In fact most people I know that dislike the trinity does it because it makes mobs stupid, combat easier and more predictable and all trinity MMOs more or less feel just the same.
Ofcourse you do "deserve" to play them, but you also have to bare in mind that the games that aren't meant to be instant gratification arent that, thusly i consider you don't have the right to complain about it either.
If i know before i get a game that i might not have the time to put into it, i won't buy it, but i wont cry about it being such a game either.
Trinity = organized and predictable combat (SWTOR, WoW fex.)
Non-trinity = unorganized chaos (GW2 dungeons "1 kites, rest nuke, aggro change, rinse repeat")
Only a matter of time when the latter becomes the same "topic of hatred", it's new now, like EQ was back in the day, but you just wait and see
So after the latter has been crucified, whats next? i don't really see other ways of doing MMORPG's to ve realistic
main arguments against holy trinity
1) force players to LFG - preparing to have fun instead of having fun
2) force players to have fixed roles (thats the holy part).
3) makes players play different games- healers plays whack a mole, tanks maintain high threat and so on
4) makes for a long stale boring combat where most skills are rotated in same sequense again and again
5) reduce the roles of control, damage and support to the most simple forms possible. Threat is a simple subclass of controll that can be so much more, healing is a subclass of support that can be so much more, and dps is simply all what damage comes down to when locked in the holy trinity setup.
6) is often used to set up challange based on the lvl of your equipment and not your personal skills. (gear grind)
7) does often make players play the UI and not the game !
8) makes the AI ridiculous stupid
do anyone need more arguments than this ?
Agreed.
I also think that maybe those who complain about how difficult it makes to get a group aren't as social as one needs to be in a mmorpg. Nothing like logging on and getting a tell saying, "Thank god! Can you run something right now?".
Soloers and anti-social people WOULD hate the trinity if they don't know alot of people and get a good reputation.
Again, mmorpg's and mmo's cater to different types.
You get that tell because the other 4-5 people have been waiting a stupidly long time for someone to log on who can fill the specific role they need. Yes it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside to be needed, but really, its just annoying for most people involved and it leads to people playing classes they like less just to get a group done. By the way, sorry to burst your bubble, but its not that you have a great reputation, you are just the right class for the job.
Most classes other than healer and tank are optional anyway, sometimes even the tank is optional. I can solo all sorts of current group content on my Shadowknight and Mystic on EQ2 because tanks and priests have become so powerful due to the trinity. Hell, I can even duo raid trash with my flatmate for easy loot just as a healer and a tank. I find games with a trinity lead to people multi-boxing or duoing zones instead of running them with full groups, which is far less social than a game that requires active participation from everyone, not just healers.
Healing is just a mechanic to extend fights.
Taunt is the most retarded concept I've seen.