Surely I cannot be the only one that is not crazy enough to pay 60$ for almost every even moderately successful game? Furthermore, I cannot be the only one that has A.D.D or some kind of goddamn neurosis that prevents me from playing themepark games for more than 10 minutes?
Look, I try and try. I've tried WoW, AoC, TERA, SWTOR and they have all been HORRIBLE MESSES. I literally cannot concentrate or devote any more than a few days max to these games because of the sheer boredom that they all bring to the table.
It's all the same thing. You were always lead down some predetermined path and fight monsters alongside people for x number of levels. This was not what I thought would be the innovation of the MMO genre when I first heard of it.
I was picturing for AT LEAST ONE game that had living breathing player cities, simple activies such as farming & crafting, no restrictions at all such as imaginary borders where you cannot attack/kill players, no set paths, player housing, huge wars among different factions and alliances, basically everything amazing that I thought would be in at *least* one game, with wars as massive as the LOTR battles, etc etc.
The only similar game I have found (it's been 8 years) so far is Darkfall, because it was pretty much the only open world sandbox PVP game out. But why?! Surely there's a market for a game like this, for people like us where our minds are so imaginary and active that the only thing that satisfies that stimulation is SANDBOX STYLE GAMEPLAY, where anything goes and anything can happen (kinda like in real life).
EDIT: I think DayZ proves my point of a global gamer shift in consciousness towards the more "open" style gameplay.
...no you're not... I'm 'lucky enough' to have 3 such 'handicaps'
On topic. I completely agree... Most themepark MMO's I can play till cap (professional slacker, so a long way to go), and then get completely bored of doing the same thing (instance crawling) over and over again. For that reason I tihnk I've liked Lineage II (up till the end of last year when it was WoWified) so much and was subscribed with it for close to 4 years. Like you I'm now looking for something new as well. Though not DF. I'd rather wait for ArcheAge which will be released late next year (according to the current time-table).
Yes, definitely not DF. Archeage looks pretty good and I'm hoping it's as sandboxy as hell so I can build a small cottage by the lake and just trade fish maybe :P. That's the beauty of sandbox.
Although I am getting desperate, and losing faith.
And the horror of it is some guy 1000X stronger than you waiting to kill you and take all your fish and your house......
Actually, the point can be made either way. Anytime something is said to be "free" people line up. Doesn't mean that it is more popular then something that is not free...just that people are willing to take advantage of those willing to pay for "free stuff". DayZ is popular probably because of the same reasoning but I do also think that many players are tired of not getting "much game for the value". DayZ is promising to a lot of people because of the open world aspect. Probably for some (or many) the PvP aspect. Others just like a big world to explore with some sense of danger.
It's the capitalim, mmos nowadays are like single player games with COOP, where you play for 1 month in order to burn the "end game", leave and move to the newest one next month. it's not different from single player-coop games like Call of Duty or Diablo 3, People will leave MW3 multiplayer and will go to BO2 and D3 players are bored after 1 month playing.
Well, 1 month for a box game is GOOD value. It is much better to have a great 1 month game, then a so-so 1 year game.
D3 actually last already almost 3 month for me. It obviously won't last forever (another month or so ... then wait for xpansion?). However, it is fun and already better than 99% of other purchases.
I am not sure anyone other than CCP with EVE will continue to charge a monthly fee in a few more years. People just don't want to play games that require you to put time into them any longer. They want instant gratification and the game to almost play itself.
Per that last part, I'm not sure we can say that with certainty. There's always a small number of gamers that make their complaints and want things easier, but then there's a boat load that agree with them. But then after such changes are made, it seems that most are not happy with it after all. Look at the complaints about WoW making things "too easy". Look at other games (just about all of them), and note how they start losing numbers at that time.
ALl thanks to the 'Generation NOW' kids that grew up with xBox, PS3, Wii half a dozen handheld consoles, all supplied by their (grand)parents. They've never learned to put time & effort in things they want to accomplish. Everything they wanted, they'd get. Same goes for their MMO mentality, and the (big) companies hop into this making silly, easy and most of all SOLO MMO's for them.
ALl thanks to the 'Generation NOW' kids that grew up with xBox, PS3, Wii half a dozen handheld consoles, all supplied by their (grand)parents. They've never learned to put time & effort in things they want to accomplish. Everything they wanted, they'd get. Same goes for their MMO mentality, and the (big) companies hop into this making silly, easy and most of all SOLO MMO's for them.
That is just elitist.
I have a job and a family to feed (and my wife stays home). And i don't to prove myself with video games. They are ENTERTAINMENT products.
I want go in a game and have fun .. not have a second job.
Plus, who says anything about solo. Modern MMO is about easy to get into co-op lobby base action gameplay.
And it is also silly to say that all games are easy. It is pretty much common knowledge that hard core D3 Inferno is hard. Hard core WOW raid is hard .. and so on.
And there is nothing with with xbox, ps3 and other gaming device.
Play TSW... Even though it's a themepark game, it is well worth the money for the experience alone.
On a side note... I believe what everyone wants just is not possible. No company can keep up with the demand of it's players... The only company I've witnessed that pushes out content at a considerbly fast pace is TRION (RIFT), granted it is a themepark game.
If it's not a thempark then it's suppost to be a sandbox? Not a lot of popular/sustaining sandboxes these days... all the recent attempts have failed. I think people need to just come to the realization that it's impossible for games to keep up. Buy the game, experience it, pay a couple month subs if you have to, and move on once you feel the grind kick in. Don't waste your money when what you're getting isn't worth it... pretty much all you can do.
Only game I can think of off the top of my head that won't run into the issue of getting old is Planetside 2 since it's a persistent, player driven world.
We would've gotten everything you mentioned, had it not been for WoW. It comes down to said MMO's success. Before WoW, the idea of an MMO was frightening to investors so not many of them wanted to even go near the concept with a 10ft pole.
Now cue WoW.
That MMO became so insanely popular, that investors started to see a golden pie. They all wanted to have a taste. They had devs make bare-bone basic clones of WoW in the hopes of gaining some extra cash. It worked, for a time. Now however, people are becoming bored and frustrated with being given the same junk they have already played for years. They want something new, but suits don't get that. And may never will until they take off those blinders they've been wearing for years. Or more MMO crashes start happening.
Had WoW not come to fruition, investors, publishers and devs would be paying a lot more attention to what makes a great game rather than what makes them more money. Because frankly, they would need to make great games to keep people playing. But they don't now, unfortunatly.
WoW's success is a double-bladed sword in the MMO market.
You know what's fun about chaos? I do, but I won't tell.
Ah, the old question. Why do people buy shallow mass market themepark MMOs instead of giving sandboxes and niche games a chance? I wish I knew the answer. Looks to me like people are only interested in games that have at least 200 CGI trailers and promotional videos plastered all over youtube and this site.
There are many sandbox and niche games around. Look at the List of Sandbox MMORPGs if you don't know them. Warning: most of these games do not have a CGI trailer.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Sorry i don't want to offend you but your opinion is not impo0rtant for gaming industry. Because what you call ''horrible mess'' is making money and games that you want to see developed like darkfall are falling in to oblivion. I respect your opinion but gaming industry for sure not
ALl thanks to the 'Generation NOW' kids that grew up with xBox, PS3, Wii half a dozen handheld consoles, all supplied by their (grand)parents. They've never learned to put time & effort in things they want to accomplish. Everything they wanted, they'd get. Same goes for their MMO mentality, and the (big) companies hop into this making silly, easy and most of all SOLO MMO's for them.
That is just elitist.
I have a job and a family to feed (and my wife stays home). And i don't to prove myself with video games. They are ENTERTAINMENT products.
I want go in a game and have fun .. not have a second job.
Plus, who says anything about solo. Modern MMO is about easy to get into co-op lobby base action gameplay.
And it is also silly to say that all games are easy. It is pretty much common knowledge that hard core D3 Inferno is hard. Hard core WOW raid is hard .. and so on.
And there is nothing with with xbox, ps3 and other gaming device.
And thats the problem. MMOs shouldent be co-op lobby based action games. There are however co-op lobby based action games. perhaps you should look into them.
@OP I can totally identify with what you're saying. If you are not having fun with MMO's or games in general, walk away, I cannot stress this enough. Get another hobby that can equally entertain you, maybe in the same budget range as gaming, if you can. It's not worth it if you feel like you're dredging through entire games on after the other.
I don't think there is a shift in the thought process of gamers, you will always have large groups of people interested in all kinds of things. Lots of people still play WOW and like it, just as people like GW2 and hate WOW. Just as most insanely hot girls don't go near MMO's and only like makeup or w/e I hope I got my point across.
There is a market for everything including eating monkey brains while they're still alive. I think it just hasn't been done as well as it could be done, yet.
Why do every game have to be wow clone or hardcore open world pvp(ala every single sandbox out there). Why can't there be a mmorpf for me?
Maybe a sandbox game for carebare?
Sure but picture yourself how insanely hard it must be to make a proper sandbox game, not to mention the risks involved. I'd love to see it happend but tbh I quite content with just playing GW2's WvW for the next couple of years.
I wish people would stop using Day Z as an example when it comes to MMOs. Day Z is first and formost a first person shooter which appeals to a different crowd entirely. Then you add zombies to the mix and some PvP and you have a good reciepy for popularity. Zombies are the new vampires...It just adds to the popularity
Unless your point is how MMOs should move towards MMOFPSs instead, then I just don't see the connection
Why do every game have to be wow clone or hardcore open world pvp(ala every single sandbox out there). Why can't there be a mmorpf for me?
Maybe a sandbox game for carebare?
I am in agreement. Full open world PVP has become a sandbox killer for me over time for a variety of reasons. I enjoy PVP but I don't want to fool wth it 24 / 7 nor see what amounts to a culture of griefing take root as acceptable, encouraged, behaviour. Based on "my" play observations in other games, I am not sure most others "really" want that either.
That's exactly why i don't play any sandbox games because of this. It's THE ONLY thing that keeps me from playing sandbox games, because everyone wants to play in a world that's exactly like downtown alleyways and bad neighborhoods everywhere all day long. The last thing anyone needs when escaping to these games is for some jerk to come running by and attacks just because you are there with almost no consequence, these games REALLY don't have any not any that do any good anyways.
And the ones that do still have that age old crappy "armor pvp" where gear matters more then skill, so you can basically cheat.
Comments
And the horror of it is some guy 1000X stronger than you waiting to kill you and take all your fish and your house......
You forgot stories and excitment it brings http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?15091-Greatest-DayZ-Crying-moment
Well, 1 month for a box game is GOOD value. It is much better to have a great 1 month game, then a so-so 1 year game.
D3 actually last already almost 3 month for me. It obviously won't last forever (another month or so ... then wait for xpansion?). However, it is fun and already better than 99% of other purchases.
I would much rather play many good 1 month games.
ALl thanks to the 'Generation NOW' kids that grew up with xBox, PS3, Wii half a dozen handheld consoles, all supplied by their (grand)parents. They've never learned to put time & effort in things they want to accomplish. Everything they wanted, they'd get. Same goes for their MMO mentality, and the (big) companies hop into this making silly, easy and most of all SOLO MMO's for them.
That is just elitist.
I have a job and a family to feed (and my wife stays home). And i don't to prove myself with video games. They are ENTERTAINMENT products.
I want go in a game and have fun .. not have a second job.
Plus, who says anything about solo. Modern MMO is about easy to get into co-op lobby base action gameplay.
And it is also silly to say that all games are easy. It is pretty much common knowledge that hard core D3 Inferno is hard. Hard core WOW raid is hard .. and so on.
And there is nothing with with xbox, ps3 and other gaming device.
Play TSW... Even though it's a themepark game, it is well worth the money for the experience alone.
On a side note... I believe what everyone wants just is not possible. No company can keep up with the demand of it's players... The only company I've witnessed that pushes out content at a considerbly fast pace is TRION (RIFT), granted it is a themepark game.
If it's not a thempark then it's suppost to be a sandbox? Not a lot of popular/sustaining sandboxes these days... all the recent attempts have failed. I think people need to just come to the realization that it's impossible for games to keep up. Buy the game, experience it, pay a couple month subs if you have to, and move on once you feel the grind kick in. Don't waste your money when what you're getting isn't worth it... pretty much all you can do.
Only game I can think of off the top of my head that won't run into the issue of getting old is Planetside 2 since it's a persistent, player driven world.
You are not going to get your dream AAA niche game.
Either you play what the masses play, or you will have to accept a bit lower quality.
MMOs aren't exactly cheap to make. No sane publisher is going to sink 50mil into a niche game.
I love sandbox games as much as the next guy, but I also love keeping it real.
Here's the thing OP. . .
We would've gotten everything you mentioned, had it not been for WoW. It comes down to said MMO's success. Before WoW, the idea of an MMO was frightening to investors so not many of them wanted to even go near the concept with a 10ft pole.
Now cue WoW.
That MMO became so insanely popular, that investors started to see a golden pie. They all wanted to have a taste. They had devs make bare-bone basic clones of WoW in the hopes of gaining some extra cash. It worked, for a time. Now however, people are becoming bored and frustrated with being given the same junk they have already played for years. They want something new, but suits don't get that. And may never will until they take off those blinders they've been wearing for years. Or more MMO crashes start happening.
Had WoW not come to fruition, investors, publishers and devs would be paying a lot more attention to what makes a great game rather than what makes them more money. Because frankly, they would need to make great games to keep people playing. But they don't now, unfortunatly.
WoW's success is a double-bladed sword in the MMO market.
You know what's fun about chaos? I do, but I won't tell.
Ah, the old question. Why do people buy shallow mass market themepark MMOs instead of giving sandboxes and niche games a chance? I wish I knew the answer. Looks to me like people are only interested in games that have at least 200 CGI trailers and promotional videos plastered all over youtube and this site.
There are many sandbox and niche games around. Look at the List of Sandbox MMORPGs if you don't know them. Warning: most of these games do not have a CGI trailer.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
And thats the problem. MMOs shouldent be co-op lobby based action games. There are however co-op lobby based action games. perhaps you should look into them.
@OP I can totally identify with what you're saying. If you are not having fun with MMO's or games in general, walk away, I cannot stress this enough. Get another hobby that can equally entertain you, maybe in the same budget range as gaming, if you can. It's not worth it if you feel like you're dredging through entire games on after the other.
I don't think there is a shift in the thought process of gamers, you will always have large groups of people interested in all kinds of things. Lots of people still play WOW and like it, just as people like GW2 and hate WOW. Just as most insanely hot girls don't go near MMO's and only like makeup or w/e I hope I got my point across.
There is a market for everything including eating monkey brains while they're still alive. I think it just hasn't been done as well as it could be done, yet.
Sure but picture yourself how insanely hard it must be to make a proper sandbox game, not to mention the risks involved. I'd love to see it happend but tbh I quite content with just playing GW2's WvW for the next couple of years.
I wish people would stop using Day Z as an example when it comes to MMOs. Day Z is first and formost a first person shooter which appeals to a different crowd entirely. Then you add zombies to the mix and some PvP and you have a good reciepy for popularity. Zombies are the new vampires...It just adds to the popularity
Unless your point is how MMOs should move towards MMOFPSs instead, then I just don't see the connection
That's exactly why i don't play any sandbox games because of this. It's THE ONLY thing that keeps me from playing sandbox games, because everyone wants to play in a world that's exactly like downtown alleyways and bad neighborhoods everywhere all day long. The last thing anyone needs when escaping to these games is for some jerk to come running by and attacks just because you are there with almost no consequence, these games REALLY don't have any not any that do any good anyways.
And the ones that do still have that age old crappy "armor pvp" where gear matters more then skill, so you can basically cheat.