Originally posted by gravesworn Dont most consoles have the ability to support a mouse and keyboard? Why cant they use that on an xbox 360 or PS3?
The same reason most PC games can accept a controller, but you don't see people using them.
Console players are more comfortable with a controller, PC players with a mouse and keyboard.
They might recognise a keyboard but probally not a mouse and certaily no games have control sets for a keyboard or a mouse on consoles.. well not as far as i know..
I use a mouse and keyboard for most games on my PC as a controller can not come close to the precision of a mouse and thats a simple fact.. only games i use a controller on are sports games.. i have a steering wheel and pedals for racing games, and a decent joystick for flight sims(tho you dont see many good flight sims these days).
You can still make DX11 for the PC while running console games. Wikipedia is your friend, you'd think the clowns at JoyStiq would of learned that by now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_11_support That's not a comprehensive list, but a representative list. Many of those games are also on console, like Battlefield 2.
Originally posted by terrant Hope they don't do a console version. Don't give a damn about DX11 either way otehr than thinking it looks pretty...but I'm more concerned that cross-platform MMOs have not done all that well.
What I'm worried about is that they dumb down the game... you just can't react as fast with a console controler than you do with a PC with a good mouse. But if they keep the two really totally separated, then why not... as long as they don't dumb down the PC content to be playable with a controller, it's more money for the company.
My real concern is UI and communication. Every MMO I've seen that launched on consoles has had horribly clunky UI and chat systems to accomodate the fact that consoles just don't handle that sort of thing well. IF they keep the two 100% separate, Heck let em do what I want. Just don't gimp this game to bring the xbox kids or whatever on.
Yeah. I've those issues, too. Things being just a bit slow. And weird combinations that don't work well on a PC. I gave up on DCUO because of that. Sometimes they'd fire, sometimes something else would fire. It was so annoying.
If PC and console end on the same server, they will affect each other, and obviously, the PC version will be simplified to console controler level. I just can imagine the whines already... "zomg PC gamers are advantaged, they have a mouse and mouselook, nerf them plz!!!!".
Looking at how streamlined the interface is, this actually already happened, right under the ever-watchful eyes of the PC-police, and noone actually noticed.
I'm with the Vulcan on this one. Kicking back on the couch with my 360 controller sounds great. What do I care if it's connected to a PC or a console...
Simple. Gaming is inherently clunkier on consoles. And, yes, I've got consoles, I enjoy consoles, I think consoles are great for many things. They're especially good for simple games that require fast-twitch button-mashing arcade games, but not so good for more complex games.
A guy with a good KB and Mouse is going to take, 9-times-out-10 an equally skilled player using a controller in any game that doesn't dumb the PC controls down to the console control level. He's just got too many advantages.
I would love to see gw2 on consoles. A good portion of my friends all over 30 game on consoles and I think they would enjoy the game. I play with a contoller on pc and it works very well, this game doesn't have the need for the precise aim a mouse is good for and a controller makes it very easy to manuever while firing off abillities. I don't think the lack of dx11 has anything to do with consoles as if this game goes to consoles it will probably go to ps3 because 360 games have to go through xbox live.
Originally posted by terrant Hope they don't do a console version. Don't give a damn about DX11 either way otehr than thinking it looks pretty...but I'm more concerned that cross-platform MMOs have not done all that well.
What I'm worried about is that they dumb down the game... you just can't react as fast with a console controler than you do with a PC with a good mouse. But if they keep the two really totally separated, then why not... as long as they don't dumb down the PC content to be playable with a controller, it's more money for the company.
My real concern is UI and communication. Every MMO I've seen that launched on consoles has had horribly clunky UI and chat systems to accomodate the fact that consoles just don't handle that sort of thing well. IF they keep the two 100% separate, Heck let em do what I want. Just don't gimp this game to bring the xbox kids or whatever on.
Yeah. I've those issues, too. Things being just a bit slow. And weird combinations that don't work well on a PC. I gave up on DCUO because of that. Sometimes they'd fire, sometimes something else would fire. It was so annoying.
DCUO and FFXI were pretty much what I was thinking about when I made that post. They were built for consoles and PCs from the ground up, and suffered as a result.
If PC and console end on the same server, they will affect each other, and obviously, the PC version will be simplified to console controler level. I just can imagine the whines already... "zomg PC gamers are advantaged, they have a mouse and mouselook, nerf them plz!!!!".
Looking at how streamlined the interface is, this actually already happened, right under the ever-watchful eyes of the PC-police, and noone actually noticed.
Not a matter of PC police but common sense. Mouselook is infinitely superior to any controler. Controler is like going back to keyboard turning.
I'm with the Vulcan on this one. Kicking back on the couch with my 360 controller sounds great. What do I care if it's connected to a PC or a console...
No problem with a console version. But 100% separated from the PC one.
Seperating players is very anti-Anet's stance on GW2 thus far in everything else.
I think the pace and style of GW2 combat is perfect for console controller adaptation with no changes required other than figuring out the control scheme.
Any "series" eSport PvP'er will probably roll PC no matter what, so what's the big difference in letting people play how they want to play?
Sure, I could just run another HDMI from my PC to my TV (did it with WoW a few times) and configure my PC to work w/ wireless 360 controller...
but to me, bringing a AAA MMO to console is something I have dreamed of since True Fantasy Live Online.
It is not true with new graphic card and procesors. My configuration works much better with dx 11 games. Thats the only minus i found in gw2. I hope they will enable dx11, why for heaven we pay all this graphic card and we cant use that in new mmo like gw2??
I've also never been a supporter of the idea that mouse+keyboard is inherently superior than console controller.
I've played LOTS of FPS on both PC and Console, and you can get just as precise as well as "fast" on a console.
I used to play the Halo games with the sensitivity up to 10/10 and was still an amazing Sniper.
And, GW2 is a MMO not a FPS how precise does it really have to be?
(This is also coming from a guy with a 100$ mouse and 40$ "gaming surface" mousepad)
That being said, there are some games where the console controller controls are clunky and awkard - like Skyrim which pissed me off to no end sometimes - but you learn, you adapt.
I used to hate trying to snipe with a Bow in Skyrim, but I've gotten used to the clunkiness and am a Pro at it now.
I've also never been a supporter of the idea that mouse+keyboard is inherently superior than console controller.
I've played LOTS of FPS on both PC and Console, and you can get just as precise as well as "fast" on a console.
I used to play the Halo games with the sensitivity up to 10/10 and was still an amazing Sniper.
And, GW2 is a MMO not a FPS how precise does it really have to be?
(This is also coming from a guy with a 100$ mouse and 40$ "gaming surface" mousepad)
That being said, there are some games where the console controller controls are clunky and awkard - like Skyrim which pissed me off to no end sometimes - but you learn, you adapt.
I used to hate trying to snipe with a Bow in Skyrim, but I've gotten used to the clunkiness and am a Pro at it now.
in tests between Xbox pro's and PC players who were not all that great the pc players would win out in tests done by microsoft. so much so it was embaressing for the pros.
that is the reason we never got cross platform gaming.
gears of wars PC was clunkied up to make controling the game harder because the devs said that the change from Xbox to PC made the game too easy
in tests between Xbox pro's and PC players who were not all that great the pc players would win out in tests done by microsoft. so much so it was embaressing for the pros.
that is the reason we never got cross platform gaming.
gears of wars PC was clunkied up to make controling the game harder because the devs said that the change from Xbox to PC made the game too easy
10 skills + 4 class abilities + movement + target selection + misc keys + gamepad = oh please don't
Still, hopefully the console version is alright. Lowly console peasants deserve to eat from the PC master race's table once in a while. I don't think this has anything to do with supporting or not supporting DX11, though.
I remember seeing a similar thread talking about the "lowly console peasants" who need to submit to their "PC overlords" some time ago. Yet on the SAME page there were at least 4-5 topics where the PC overlords were BEGGING for some console exclusives to be ported over to the PC Or all those cool multiplayer games which are dead on the PC but are very much alive on the two consoles.
Just saing -_-
Originally posted by cloud8521
Originally posted by BadSpock
I've also never been a supporter of the idea that mouse+keyboard is inherently superior than console controller.
I've played LOTS of FPS on both PC and Console, and you can get just as precise as well as "fast" on a console.
I used to play the Halo games with the sensitivity up to 10/10 and was still an amazing Sniper.
And, GW2 is a MMO not a FPS how precise does it really have to be?
(This is also coming from a guy with a 100$ mouse and 40$ "gaming surface" mousepad)
That being said, there are some games where the console controller controls are clunky and awkard - like Skyrim which pissed me off to no end sometimes - but you learn, you adapt.
I used to hate trying to snipe with a Bow in Skyrim, but I've gotten used to the clunkiness and am a Pro at it now.
in tests between Xbox pro's and PC players who were not all that great the pc players would win out in tests done by microsoft. so much so it was embaressing for the pros.
that is the reason we never got cross platform gaming.
gears of wars PC was clunkied up to make controling the game harder because the devs said that the change from Xbox to PC made the game too easy
Yet amazing games like Forza, GT, Gears of War, Halo, Red Dead Redemption, God of War, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, UFC, Dragon's Dogma and probably another 50 gazillion games never make it to the PC. To be honest the PC catalog of exclusives is very lackluster and the PC is missing some really good games...
Did I mention how much begging PC fans had to do for Dark Souls even to arrive to the PC platform well after the console release?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I've also never been a supporter of the idea that mouse+keyboard is inherently superior than console controller.
I've played LOTS of FPS on both PC and Console, and you can get just as precise as well as "fast" on a console.
I used to play the Halo games with the sensitivity up to 10/10 and was still an amazing Sniper.
And, GW2 is a MMO not a FPS how precise does it really have to be?
(This is also coming from a guy with a 100$ mouse and 40$ "gaming surface" mousepad)
That being said, there are some games where the console controller controls are clunky and awkard - like Skyrim which pissed me off to no end sometimes - but you learn, you adapt.
I used to hate trying to snipe with a Bow in Skyrim, but I've gotten used to the clunkiness and am a Pro at it now.
in tests between Xbox pro's and PC players who were not all that great the pc players would win out in tests done by microsoft. so much so it was embaressing for the pros.
that is the reason we never got cross platform gaming.
gears of wars PC was clunkied up to make controling the game harder because the devs said that the change from Xbox to PC made the game too easy
A mouse makes precise aim better and I have said this to console players who dismiss the idea the same as many pc gamers dismiss the controller. This game does not require pixel perfect aim and has more of a beatem up style that suits a controller well.
in tests between Xbox pro's and PC players who were not all that great the pc players would win out in tests done by microsoft. so much so it was embaressing for the pros.
that is the reason we never got cross platform gaming.
gears of wars PC was clunkied up to make controling the game harder because the devs said that the change from Xbox to PC made the game too easy
Before being a smart ass, try to get your shit straight.
They gimped the controls on PC, plus they gave auto aim to console boys.
Try to use your logical sense. I know it hurts, but try.
With a controller, there is an amount of time that it takes to turn around. You cant do this any faster.
With a flip of a mouse, you can rotate 180 degress in seconds.
With a controller (lets take it without auto aim), it takes time to adjust and make the right hit, while on the mouse, where you can use the whole hand instead of a finger, the aim gets more smooth and precisely.
I cant really find the post about it, but as you can see, theres lots of talking about the controls being gimped on the PC
Different control hardware are more optimal for certain types of gameplay. This is pretty much a fact. None of this impacts whether GW2 potentially being co-released on consoles is a good or bad thing.
There's nothing to say that the game can't work super awesome on a controller with the right player and the right controller. The question is what would it change?
FFXI's UI is pretty much universally revilved as one of the worst, clunkiest, slowest, pieces of garbage in the MMO genre. And it's that way almost entirely because they needed to make a system friendly to PS2 users as well. Now, to the best of my knowledge it was the first MMO to be launched on two platforms simultaneously, and working on much older hardware than current gens. But the point standard that Square had to release a PC game in a sub-par state to make it compatible with conoles.
If Anet can find a way to make a console releaseof GW2 that does NOT end up the way Square did with FFXI? Awesome. Go for it. Bring in the money.
Here's a question though: GW2 has a cash shop. Run by Anet. How would Microsoft/Sony feel about a third party selling products in said third party's proprietary market over Microsoft/Sony's network?
If Anet can find a way to make a console releaseof GW2 that does NOT end up the way Square did with FFXI? Awesome. Go for it. Bring in the money.
They don't need to change the game in anyway to work on consoles besides navigation of menus. I play with a controller and it works just fine with the current setup. Players will need a chat pad for obvious reasons though.
Here's a question though: GW2 has a cash shop. Run by Anet. How would Microsoft/Sony feel about a third party selling products in said third party's proprietary market over Microsoft/Sony's network?
That's why I don't see it coming to xbox. It's the same reason the game isn't available on steam. Microtransactions
If Anet can find a way to make a console releaseof GW2 that does NOT end up the way Square did with FFXI? Awesome. Go for it. Bring in the money.
They don't need to change the game in anyway to work on consoles besides navigation of menus. I play with a controller and it works just fine with the current setup. Players will need a chat pad for obvious reasons though.
Here's a question though: GW2 has a cash shop. Run by Anet. How would Microsoft/Sony feel about a third party selling products in said third party's proprietary market over Microsoft/Sony's network?
That's why I don't see it coming to xbox. It's the same reason the game isn't available on steam. Microtransactions
I don't get it, how is having microtransactions the reason why Guild Wars 2 not coming to Steam? There are a ton of free to play games on steam that uses 3rd party microtransactions.
If Anet can find a way to make a console releaseof GW2 that does NOT end up the way Square did with FFXI? Awesome. Go for it. Bring in the money.
They don't need to change the game in anyway to work on consoles besides navigation of menus. I play with a controller and it works just fine with the current setup. Players will need a chat pad for obvious reasons though.
Here's a question though: GW2 has a cash shop. Run by Anet. How would Microsoft/Sony feel about a third party selling products in said third party's proprietary market over Microsoft/Sony's network?
That's why I don't see it coming to xbox. It's the same reason the game isn't available on steam. Microtransactions
I don't get it, how is having microtransactions the reason why Guild Wars 2 not coming to Steam? There are a ton of free to play games on steam that uses 3rd party microtransactions.
I believe it has to do with the way these transactions are split amongst said parties. Anet already stated that they don't agree with the steam policies which is probably wanting a certain percantage etc. Microsoft has big fee's for publishing patches and the like that will make it hard for any mmo to appear on xbox live. Did you hear about the fez patch?
I don't see what's stopping them from having a DX11 rendering path. The fact that there's going to be a console version (would be XBox only then?) has nothing to do with that.
This said, if they ever make a console version, I hope it will be on separate servers. The last thing the PC version needs is the servers invaded by the xbox kiddies. But I'm quite confident servers will be different, the client will also need to be seriously dumbed down to fit console controlers since everything now relies on mouse usage. My guess is that the console gameplay will be different and much more simplistic than the PC gameplay, if it ever happens.
I agree, I'd much rather them have their own servers.
Mind you that was in Febuary prior to the big buzz about the new Xbox720 coming next year. With that, most likely they'll scrap an Xbox version for the new Xbox instead.
A mouse makes precise aim better and I have said this to console players who dismiss the idea the same as many pc gamers dismiss the controller. This game does not require pixel perfect aim and has more of a beatem up style that suits a controller well.
Yep.
And to the guy who said "you can't turn around as fast with a controller" umm have you ever heard of sensitivity settings?
WHAT? CONTROLLERS HAVE CUSTOMIZABLE SETTINGS TOO? BLURGH
I always drop my games to Direct X 9 to improve the framerate, and this is with a GTX 670, 32 GB RAM, 120gb SSD for OS and 250gb SSD for games, i7 2700 (not overclocked yet though)
IMO, the graphical improvements in Direct X 11 don't justify the extra GPU power used, and I need 120 fps to take advantage of my 120hz monitor (BENQ XL2420T) and Vsync enabled. With the hope of pulling off 120 fps in Guild Wars 2, I'll be trying to overclock my CPU to 5.0ghz with the Corsair H100 water cooler. Having DX11 is just going to slow me down, so bring on the DX9.
This is blasphemy, this is madness! With that GPU you can easily pull +100 fps with DX10 in most games. You won't notice a difference between 100 -120 fps which is more than enough for FPS, not to mention MMOs like GW2. Do yourself a favour and play GW2 on DX10.
Comments
They might recognise a keyboard but probally not a mouse and certaily no games have control sets for a keyboard or a mouse on consoles.. well not as far as i know..
I use a mouse and keyboard for most games on my PC as a controller can not come close to the precision of a mouse and thats a simple fact.. only games i use a controller on are sports games.. i have a steering wheel and pedals for racing games, and a decent joystick for flight sims(tho you dont see many good flight sims these days).
With a console you dont really have choice
You can still make DX11 for the PC while running console games. Wikipedia is your friend, you'd think the clowns at JoyStiq would of learned that by now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_11_support That's not a comprehensive list, but a representative list. Many of those games are also on console, like Battlefield 2.
Yeah. I've those issues, too. Things being just a bit slow. And weird combinations that don't work well on a PC. I gave up on DCUO because of that. Sometimes they'd fire, sometimes something else would fire. It was so annoying.
Simple. Gaming is inherently clunkier on consoles. And, yes, I've got consoles, I enjoy consoles, I think consoles are great for many things. They're especially good for simple games that require fast-twitch button-mashing arcade games, but not so good for more complex games.
A guy with a good KB and Mouse is going to take, 9-times-out-10 an equally skilled player using a controller in any game that doesn't dumb the PC controls down to the console control level. He's just got too many advantages.
DCUO and FFXI were pretty much what I was thinking about when I made that post. They were built for consoles and PCs from the ground up, and suffered as a result.
The real question is which moron would play this game on their console o.o
I can see that using a controller over a keyboard and mouse would be a real headache.
Seperating players is very anti-Anet's stance on GW2 thus far in everything else.
I think the pace and style of GW2 combat is perfect for console controller adaptation with no changes required other than figuring out the control scheme.
Any "series" eSport PvP'er will probably roll PC no matter what, so what's the big difference in letting people play how they want to play?
Sure, I could just run another HDMI from my PC to my TV (did it with WoW a few times) and configure my PC to work w/ wireless 360 controller...
but to me, bringing a AAA MMO to console is something I have dreamed of since True Fantasy Live Online.
I've also never been a supporter of the idea that mouse+keyboard is inherently superior than console controller.
I've played LOTS of FPS on both PC and Console, and you can get just as precise as well as "fast" on a console.
I used to play the Halo games with the sensitivity up to 10/10 and was still an amazing Sniper.
And, GW2 is a MMO not a FPS how precise does it really have to be?
(This is also coming from a guy with a 100$ mouse and 40$ "gaming surface" mousepad)
That being said, there are some games where the console controller controls are clunky and awkard - like Skyrim which pissed me off to no end sometimes - but you learn, you adapt.
I used to hate trying to snipe with a Bow in Skyrim, but I've gotten used to the clunkiness and am a Pro at it now.
in tests between Xbox pro's and PC players who were not all that great the pc players would win out in tests done by microsoft. so much so it was embaressing for the pros.
that is the reason we never got cross platform gaming.
gears of wars PC was clunkied up to make controling the game harder because the devs said that the change from Xbox to PC made the game too easy
Funny how in these discussions, people always remember the tests where mouse/kb won, and never the test where they got their ass whipped by a controller
I remember seeing a similar thread talking about the "lowly console peasants" who need to submit to their "PC overlords" some time ago. Yet on the SAME page there were at least 4-5 topics where the PC overlords were BEGGING for some console exclusives to be ported over to the PC
Or all those cool multiplayer games which are dead on the PC but are very much alive on the two consoles.
Just saing -_-
Yet amazing games like Forza, GT, Gears of War, Halo, Red Dead Redemption, God of War, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, UFC, Dragon's Dogma and probably another 50 gazillion games never make it to the PC. To be honest the PC catalog of exclusives is very lackluster and the PC is missing some really good games...
Did I mention how much begging PC fans had to do for Dark Souls even to arrive to the PC platform well after the console release?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
A mouse makes precise aim better and I have said this to console players who dismiss the idea the same as many pc gamers dismiss the controller. This game does not require pixel perfect aim and has more of a beatem up style that suits a controller well.
It's the engine.
Before being a smart ass, try to get your shit straight.
They gimped the controls on PC, plus they gave auto aim to console boys.
Try to use your logical sense. I know it hurts, but try.
With a controller, there is an amount of time that it takes to turn around. You cant do this any faster.
With a flip of a mouse, you can rotate 180 degress in seconds.
With a controller (lets take it without auto aim), it takes time to adjust and make the right hit, while on the mouse, where you can use the whole hand instead of a finger, the aim gets more smooth and precisely.
I cant really find the post about it, but as you can see, theres lots of talking about the controls being gimped on the PC
http://www.google.dk/#q=shadowrun+on+PC+gimped+controls&hl=da&prmd=imvns&ei=CQggUO_6GeGM0AWm14GgBQ&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=e63b965a743eedaa&biw=1680&bih=937
Seriously, dont make such a fool out of yourself. I know you are anonymous on the web - but your stupidity must hurt.
There is no DX11 because their engine currently doesn´t support it.
Can be added after release,
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Sigh.
Different control hardware are more optimal for certain types of gameplay. This is pretty much a fact. None of this impacts whether GW2 potentially being co-released on consoles is a good or bad thing.
There's nothing to say that the game can't work super awesome on a controller with the right player and the right controller. The question is what would it change?
FFXI's UI is pretty much universally revilved as one of the worst, clunkiest, slowest, pieces of garbage in the MMO genre. And it's that way almost entirely because they needed to make a system friendly to PS2 users as well. Now, to the best of my knowledge it was the first MMO to be launched on two platforms simultaneously, and working on much older hardware than current gens. But the point standard that Square had to release a PC game in a sub-par state to make it compatible with conoles.
If Anet can find a way to make a console releaseof GW2 that does NOT end up the way Square did with FFXI? Awesome. Go for it. Bring in the money.
Here's a question though: GW2 has a cash shop. Run by Anet. How would Microsoft/Sony feel about a third party selling products in said third party's proprietary market over Microsoft/Sony's network?
I don't get it, how is having microtransactions the reason why Guild Wars 2 not coming to Steam? There are a ton of free to play games on steam that uses 3rd party microtransactions.
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I believe it has to do with the way these transactions are split amongst said parties. Anet already stated that they don't agree with the steam policies which is probably wanting a certain percantage etc. Microsoft has big fee's for publishing patches and the like that will make it hard for any mmo to appear on xbox live. Did you hear about the fez patch?
I agree, I'd much rather them have their own servers.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Mind you that was in Febuary prior to the big buzz about the new Xbox720 coming next year. With that, most likely they'll scrap an Xbox version for the new Xbox instead.
Yep.
And to the guy who said "you can't turn around as fast with a controller" umm have you ever heard of sensitivity settings?
WHAT? CONTROLLERS HAVE CUSTOMIZABLE SETTINGS TOO? BLURGH
This is blasphemy, this is madness! With that GPU you can easily pull +100 fps with DX10 in most games. You won't notice a difference between 100 -120 fps which is more than enough for FPS, not to mention MMOs like GW2. Do yourself a favour and play GW2 on DX10.