I dont see a player driven economy so far, which is one of the best and most dominant core features of a sandbox. I dont say, that a player driven economy is not possible in a world with quests feeding loot to players all day long. It depends on loot and reward structure. But I am sceptical so far. But at least we will see open world GvG territorial pvp. Thats the only PvP i am interested in.
I have to look, what exactly instanced sieges mean and how it should fit into this type of PvP.
One of the beta guilds became very wealty just by growing and cutting down trees to sell to other players so they could build houses and ships. Player driven economy.
Thats beta, wait until all these wow-kiddies start to flood your economy with money from quests, cause inflation and ruin everything based on resource-harvesting. Afterwards one of the main motivation for GvG is gone: the human greed about ressources.
Theme-park elements may destroy sandboxes entirely. It really depends on how its implemented.
Originally posted by bcbully They better get it overhere before "The Repopulation."
The Repopulation, like all indie MMO's is likely to be terrabad. Not because I want it to, or because I'm a troll its just the reality of making something so difficult with limited resources.
Archeage has a (so far) $50 million dollar budget and has vetran talent. It's really our only hope for something really different right now other than maybe EQ Next but who knows with that one.
every game that isnt out yet is going to be the best on the market...for sure.
same procedure as every year ...
I often wonder what would happen if a game just launched. No over hype pre launch period, no devloper blogs, no round after round of open beta showcasing the most polished part of the game and leaving out the most vital parts (usually what happens at endgame)
I wonder what it would look like if a game just appeared in a lunch ready state and just launched without the fanfare. No time for idiots to overhype a game far beyond what it is.
Also its painfully clear that a lot of players just have no clue what a sandbox is and have probably never played one before. Quests levels and themepark rides, instances for anything important....really just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Hopefully the seige mechanics are fantastic. Right now its looking like this game is a korean themepark with a house building/tree planting mod added on to it...and everyone seems to think that alone makes it a sandbox.
Yeah this never ending cycle of the best games always being in a prelaunch state and every launched game being considerd a failure to all the kids, regardless of it being profitable or not.
The mechanisms of hype are pretty obvious for me. The companies do what they should do as business company: they announce their new great features with shiny videos and stuff. Now in the imagination of the players a great game arises.
Unfortunately a great game means much more than just great features. It means great core mechanics and implementation of it, too. And you never see that. Even if there are some blogs about game mechanics, you cannot really assess it, without actually playing the real implementation yourself. And most players are already blinded by shiny videos at this point of time and just read, what they like to read. They are willing to misinterpret everything, just that their wet dream becomes true.
The few players which preach caution are immediately called haters on the forums. Yes, there are haters, but some of them are simply just right.
After the game goes live, the blinded players, overestimating the game fully, can "feel" the game and become more and more desillusioned. They stop putting up resistnace to the haters on the forums, and at the end they become very very quiet and this best game ever goes F2P.
Afterwards you will see tons of posts of former fanbois saying: "I told you so ...".
The character progression is based on levels. Consequently, it is not a sandbox.
Do you think that a sandbox game can use levels?
Sure it can. You can even have a free open skill-system based on levels. If levels are just a a way to earn skillpoints to invest, its not a problem. Unfortunately levels are much more than that. Look at TSW. It has levels, exactly 10 levels. And they rule the game much more than the skillwheel. No problem, because TSW is a theme-park. But this kind of levels would be a big mistake in a sandbox.
However, i prefer if SP are not granted via levels, perhaps at the beginning as an additional tool to steer new players a bit. But not as the main source.
The main issue is much more basic. Should there be an experience bar at all? I dont see a difference, if you get 1 level after 1000 xp, which grants you 3 SP to invest, or it gives you directly 3 SP. The levels are just cosmetics in this case.
So far i saw:
- SP by experience
- SP by time
- SP by use
- there is also SP by quest/task, but i never saw this themeparkish way in a sandbox. Dunno, if it could work.
The question is, is "SP by experience " sandbox-compliant? Has nothing to do with levels basically.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I dont see a player driven economy so far, which is one of the best and most dominant core features of a sandbox. I dont say, that a player driven economy is not possible in a world with quests feeding loot to players all day long. It depends on loot and reward structure. But I am sceptical so far. But at least we will see open world GvG territorial pvp. Thats the only PvP i am interested in.
I have to look, what exactly instanced sieges mean and how it should fit into this type of PvP.
One of the beta guilds became very wealty just by growing and cutting down trees to sell to other players so they could build houses and ships. Player driven economy.
Thats beta, wait until all these wow-kiddies start to flood your economy with money from quests, cause inflation and ruin everything based on resource-harvesting. Afterwards one of the main motivation for GvG is gone: the human greed about ressources.
Theme-park elements may destroy sandboxes entirely. It really depends on how its implemented.
You have a point there. We'll have to wait and see if loot drops from raids end up breaking it.
I am looking forward to ArcheAge, but its western release just seems so distant at this point, that I really don't see a reason to research it further. Until its western release gets closer and actually defined, I'm going to just keep it on my peripheral vision.
Yeap, I agree with a lot of the sandbox posters in here...this game needs to change its marketing approach. You can not have a sandbox/themepark mmo...as when you add themepark...it totally takes away sandbox. This game is an very free themepark, not a sandbox at all. Instanced pvp, questlines, pvp rulesets, gear drops where you don't need crafters, etc. Nothing more than what looks like a solid themepark.
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by elocke The game looks great, but by the time it comes out, the wind will have blown out of the sails. Meaning, we shouldn't know about this game until 6 months from release. By the time it comes out, the game will look like a last generation game, sadly. This is what happens when games are announced way to early. If it even launches in the US in a reasonable time frame.
I disagree.
Some recent AAA games which are supposed to look great to me look very average.
It all comes down to the quality of artwork, personal taste and animation fluidity. I still love how the Star Wars Galaxies looks and it's a game released in 2003.
Well that's a matter of opinion. Personally I think SWG looks horrible compared to today's graphics in games like TSW, Rift and AoC. Plus, the jump animation in SWG...pretty pointless.
Granted, ArcheAge does look nice and has nice animation, from what I've seen in vids. That still doesn't excuse the fact that we are seeing this all now, in 2012 when the game could be 2 or more years away from launching here. By that time, our current MMOs are going to start looking old. Maybe they can keep up with the graphic power, I don't know. But can they keep up with modern MMO design? That's already changing with games like GW2. Questing systems alone are in a state of evolution as well as combat in MMOs.
I'm looking forward to ArcheAge, I just hate looking forward to something years ahead of time. Until we have more focused info on Western release, speculation at this point seems pointless or even getting excited.
Originally posted by GardavsshadeArcheAge isn't released yet. Only upon release will we know what the real score is. Every single advertised Feature of ArcheAge is nothing more than a "design option" until release. All MMOs are made that way now. If a Feature proves too difficult, or too costly, out it goes.Besides... Suits run MMOs now... ALL MMOs... whether they admit it or not. Never trust a Suit. Suits forgot how to play.(For my purposes no MMO exists until it is made for / converted to a Western English speaking Player base. Until then I can not play it because I won't understand it. The greatest MMOs in the World might exist in the East, but unless they are Westernized (into English) they don't exist for me.)
Jake song isnt a suit, get right. This guy is probably the last of his breed, but we at least have the father of lineage to guide mmos in the direction they should have gone in the first place.
ArcheAge should of happend 5 years ago. But better late then never.
This or CCPs WoD. If they can pull that ambitious project off... I might as well /logout of life cus it will be damn hard to pull me away from it.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Whoo Lovin archeage's new trailer, NEW FEATURES NEW STUFF NEW HOUSES NEW MOUTNS NEW PETS.
MY MIND IS GOING to explode!!!!!!!!!!!
Archeage is going to take sandbox by storm, you just watch. Only cost $50 million and they got even mroe features ITS CRAZY ITS INSANE ITS ITS WOWOWOWOWOW.
Just trying to catch my breath. WHEW
ArcheAge #1 sandbox game for sure. Tons of features already in closed beta, no broken promises.
Finally Finally no more small budget sandbox games please. Please for the love of all that is good, no more small budget sandbox games.
Settle down, Beavis. I understand your excitement but the game is still years from releasing in the West. At this rate you'll get a seizure before you actually get to play the game...Unless you live in Asia, then it's another story.
You must mean Korea. I live in Asia but I wouldn't be able to play this awesome-looking game without taking up Hangul classes.
ArcheAge isn't released yet. Only upon release will we know what the real score is. Every single advertised Feature of ArcheAge is nothing more than a "design option" until release. All MMOs are made that way now. If a Feature proves too difficult, or too costly, out it goes.
Besides... Suits run MMOs now... ALL MMOs... whether they admit it or not. Never trust a Suit. Suits forgot how to play.
(For my purposes no MMO exists until it is made for / converted to a Western English speaking Player base. Until then I can not play it because I won't understand it. The greatest MMOs in the World might exist in the East, but unless they are Westernized (into English) they don't exist for me.)
Well I talked to two people that managed to try it out few months ago and they said it was already awsome. (I doubt they experianced 10% of it though). And they are both jaded cynical bastards when it comes to MMOs so if they get excited it means something good is up.
But even if it releases with 80% of promised things, by the time it comes to the West, they'd most probably implement the rest. And even the unfinished version was better than low budget or indie sandboxes. So yeah...go Koreans, work faster!
And sadly, you are quite right. It doesn't exist (for most of us) untill it gets released in the West. And by everything that is holy I hope that they will have a competent publisher in EU (Gameforge, Frogster and similar crap I hope you burn in hell (Tera and Aion fails as a latest example).
Just because some random guild can't zerg and help 1 guild to win with no skill or strategy doesn't make it instanced.
It happens in the open world and anyone is freely to watch.
They are exactly like in Lineage 2, and Lineage 2 had open world sieges.
There aren't any instanced battlegrounds either, just 1 for siege practice, and it doesn't have any rewards, it's a tutorial.
On the last CBT, CBT4, there where 0 instanced dungeons, they may add 1 for the next beta but it won't have "uber phat lootz", AA is all about the crafting and player based economy.
"Dogs are the leaders of the planet. If you see two life forms, one of them's making a poop, the other one's carrying it for him, who would you assume is in charge."
"The idea behind the tuxedo is the woman's point of view that men are all the same; so we might as well dress them that way. That's why a wedding is like the joining together of a beautiful, glowing bride and some guy" -Seinfeld
Originally posted by Mythryl This is the only one I'm waiting for. Just wish they'd give a N.A. release date.
gonna be a looooong time
2014 at the earliest I believe.
Latest interview speculates 2013 xmas. I tested in CBT4 and will be in CBT5. From my honest opinion of having first hand experience playing. They can make a 2012 release, and then transfer to EU/NA within 6-8 months. Of course complications can increase this. Jake Song seems like he has his team on check, they may make some sacrifices come release, but hopefully a NA release will introduce new features and direction that benefits AA, not dubs it down to retard status like most MMOs released in NA.
As much as I m keeping an eye on this game, I m not going to care at all, until it s at least know when a release date is for NA. Even then, I hate all the hype that kills games, so I won t get too excited even then.
Comments
every game that isnt out yet is going to be the best on the market...for sure.
And then its released, and it isnt.
Thats beta, wait until all these wow-kiddies start to flood your economy with money from quests, cause inflation and ruin everything based on resource-harvesting. Afterwards one of the main motivation for GvG is gone: the human greed about ressources.
Theme-park elements may destroy sandboxes entirely. It really depends on how its implemented.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
The Repopulation, like all indie MMO's is likely to be terrabad. Not because I want it to, or because I'm a troll its just the reality of making something so difficult with limited resources.
Archeage has a (so far) $50 million dollar budget and has vetran talent. It's really our only hope for something really different right now other than maybe EQ Next but who knows with that one.
Remember Old School Ultima Online
same procedure as every year ...
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
Yup rinse and repeat.....
I often wonder what would happen if a game just launched. No over hype pre launch period, no devloper blogs, no round after round of open beta showcasing the most polished part of the game and leaving out the most vital parts (usually what happens at endgame)
I wonder what it would look like if a game just appeared in a lunch ready state and just launched without the fanfare. No time for idiots to overhype a game far beyond what it is.
Also its painfully clear that a lot of players just have no clue what a sandbox is and have probably never played one before. Quests levels and themepark rides, instances for anything important....really just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Hopefully the seige mechanics are fantastic. Right now its looking like this game is a korean themepark with a house building/tree planting mod added on to it...and everyone seems to think that alone makes it a sandbox.
Yeah this never ending cycle of the best games always being in a prelaunch state and every launched game being considerd a failure to all the kids, regardless of it being profitable or not.
The mechanisms of hype are pretty obvious for me. The companies do what they should do as business company: they announce their new great features with shiny videos and stuff. Now in the imagination of the players a great game arises.
Unfortunately a great game means much more than just great features. It means great core mechanics and implementation of it, too. And you never see that. Even if there are some blogs about game mechanics, you cannot really assess it, without actually playing the real implementation yourself. And most players are already blinded by shiny videos at this point of time and just read, what they like to read. They are willing to misinterpret everything, just that their wet dream becomes true.
The few players which preach caution are immediately called haters on the forums. Yes, there are haters, but some of them are simply just right.
After the game goes live, the blinded players, overestimating the game fully, can "feel" the game and become more and more desillusioned. They stop putting up resistnace to the haters on the forums, and at the end they become very very quiet and this best game ever goes F2P.
Afterwards you will see tons of posts of former fanbois saying: "I told you so ...".
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
Sure it can. You can even have a free open skill-system based on levels. If levels are just a a way to earn skillpoints to invest, its not a problem. Unfortunately levels are much more than that. Look at TSW. It has levels, exactly 10 levels. And they rule the game much more than the skillwheel. No problem, because TSW is a theme-park. But this kind of levels would be a big mistake in a sandbox.
However, i prefer if SP are not granted via levels, perhaps at the beginning as an additional tool to steer new players a bit. But not as the main source.
The main issue is much more basic. Should there be an experience bar at all? I dont see a difference, if you get 1 level after 1000 xp, which grants you 3 SP to invest, or it gives you directly 3 SP. The levels are just cosmetics in this case.
So far i saw:
- SP by experience
- SP by time
- SP by use
- there is also SP by quest/task, but i never saw this themeparkish way in a sandbox. Dunno, if it could work.
The question is, is "SP by experience " sandbox-compliant? Has nothing to do with levels basically.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
You have a point there. We'll have to wait and see if loot drops from raids end up breaking it.
My theme song.
it will be overhyped.
it releases.
it will fail horribly and cost the devs much money.
we will all have a good laugh.
we wait for the next release.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
Other games gameplay video and dev talks = Hype
Archage = All truth
Oh mmorpg.com, you're so awesome.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Well that's a matter of opinion. Personally I think SWG looks horrible compared to today's graphics in games like TSW, Rift and AoC. Plus, the jump animation in SWG...pretty pointless.
Granted, ArcheAge does look nice and has nice animation, from what I've seen in vids. That still doesn't excuse the fact that we are seeing this all now, in 2012 when the game could be 2 or more years away from launching here. By that time, our current MMOs are going to start looking old. Maybe they can keep up with the graphic power, I don't know. But can they keep up with modern MMO design? That's already changing with games like GW2. Questing systems alone are in a state of evolution as well as combat in MMOs.
I'm looking forward to ArcheAge, I just hate looking forward to something years ahead of time. Until we have more focused info on Western release, speculation at this point seems pointless or even getting excited.
~Awesome Tr!x
Jake song isnt a suit, get right. This guy is probably the last of his breed, but we at least have the father of lineage to guide mmos in the direction they should have gone in the first place.
ArcheAge should of happend 5 years ago. But better late then never.
This or CCPs WoD. If they can pull that ambitious project off... I might as well /logout of life cus it will be damn hard to pull me away from it.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
You must mean Korea. I live in Asia but I wouldn't be able to play this awesome-looking game without taking up Hangul classes.
Anyway, I'm waiting for this game too.
Well I talked to two people that managed to try it out few months ago and they said it was already awsome. (I doubt they experianced 10% of it though). And they are both jaded cynical bastards when it comes to MMOs so if they get excited it means something good is up.
But even if it releases with 80% of promised things, by the time it comes to the West, they'd most probably implement the rest. And even the unfinished version was better than low budget or indie sandboxes. So yeah...go Koreans, work faster!
And sadly, you are quite right. It doesn't exist (for most of us) untill it gets released in the West. And by everything that is holy I hope that they will have a competent publisher in EU (Gameforge, Frogster and similar crap I hope you burn in hell (Tera and Aion fails as a latest example).
The sieges aren't instanced.
Just because some random guild can't zerg and help 1 guild to win with no skill or strategy doesn't make it instanced.
It happens in the open world and anyone is freely to watch.
They are exactly like in Lineage 2, and Lineage 2 had open world sieges.
There aren't any instanced battlegrounds either, just 1 for siege practice, and it doesn't have any rewards, it's a tutorial.
On the last CBT, CBT4, there where 0 instanced dungeons, they may add 1 for the next beta but it won't have "uber phat lootz", AA is all about the crafting and player based economy.
"Dogs are the leaders of the planet. If you see two life forms, one of them's making a poop, the other one's carrying it for him, who would you assume is in charge."
"The idea behind the tuxedo is the woman's point of view that men are all the same; so we might as well dress them that way. That's why a wedding is like the joining together of a beautiful, glowing bride and some guy"
-Seinfeld
Latest interview speculates 2013 xmas. I tested in CBT4 and will be in CBT5. From my honest opinion of having first hand experience playing. They can make a 2012 release, and then transfer to EU/NA within 6-8 months. Of course complications can increase this. Jake Song seems like he has his team on check, they may make some sacrifices come release, but hopefully a NA release will introduce new features and direction that benefits AA, not dubs it down to retard status like most MMOs released in NA.
I was trying to find out what Archeage was, Then I saw it was Tera and Aion all over again.
It surprises me, or actually, it makes me wonder, why all asian RPGs has to look like each other. Big eyes and all that.